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[LeMark]

Every sessions north pvp team have more caps than they can spend, so what news?

Full wipe or no wipe...

[Izual]

Full wipe or no wipe...

Imo Item Wipe was less "violent" than full wipe, but I'm not opposed to a full wipe neither.

[Keldorn]

Ah, hatred You're 5 minutes late!

Big gangs are not fucked over because of this bug. It's the opposite :>

Not hatred, alittle annoyed yes.  

Small folks like me and countless others have had to listen to the DA WASTELAND IS DA HARSH since playing.  If we bring something up its usually the gms or devs or big gangs who cry quit whining.  All of a sudden someting happens that pretty much affects big gangs only (TC gangs), we get whining (oh but its not whining when big gangs are affected).  

Small players could give a crap about TC.  If they do then its at night when the big gangs are asleep anyways.    In the morning the town goes baco to Rogues, CS, TTTLA, VSB.  Big gangs have ALWAYS had more money and stuff compared to little players.  It wasn't considered economy breaking when all the big gangs had caps and could afford cars and multiple bases whie small folks eked out a living.

This is cleatly about and affecting the big gangs that DIDN'T get to benefit over the bug while some gans did AKA Rogues it seems fromt he gang issues thread.  No surprise that after the big flame  war between the big gangs we get this suggestion a few days llater.

Its hyporcritical man

PS:  LIke I said full wipes for a good reason AKA implementing new fetures or making the game better all around for EVERYONE, not because some big gangs are all butt hurt over a glitch.

[Izual]

Keldorn: Ok, it's better when you use arguments than insults. So yeah, I understand what you say, it is mostly very true. Except that I'm not responsible for players telling you "WASTEMAND IS HARSH" (saying this is stupid).

I posted this suggestiong because I thought it was deeply unfair to have on one hand, small gangs that have to craft all day long etc; and on the other hand big gangs with unlimited caps. If you think it is not unfair, or it is no different than previous sessions, well, then I'm glad you posted your point of view, because this is interesting and it seems fair. However, we shouldn't forget that we are beta-testing this game and that it is more important to have a balanced economy than keeping our items for months. My two cents.

[Keldorn]

Look, big gangs have always had more caps/stuff/bases/cars whatever than regular folks.  They could wipe their butts with 5k toilet paper (gauss pistol ammo anybody??).  Big gangs pretty much have unlimited caps already.

This has never been considered game/economy breaking.  It was considered a fact of life.  

The problem arrises when one big gang ends up with more endless + caps compared to other bi gangs who only have endless.

The annoyance comes from the fact that when average  folks got screwed over (someone I know lost 20k because he got rolled back into a fight), devs can't do anyting about it (I disagree yet understand).

Now a big gang profited from a TC glitch and decided to use the bank to compound their money.  Thats not the average joes fault.  That doesn't mean the bank system is a bad idea.  It just means one big gang capitalized on a glitch, it happens

But now your suggesting that everyone get punished over the actions of a small few.  Tha bank system allows little folks like me to earn some nice caps to (without having to ruthlessly murder everyone I run into to do so).

Its alarming that this kind of bias could be suggested by a GM hence the much stronger response then something small. and not by a gm.  This really doesn't help when we got folks accusing gms of favoritism/abuse in a different thread whether its true or not.

[Lordus]

 During TC bug, we calculated, that BH income was 250 000 caps per day. But it is nothing. If you have average daily interest in bank 2 percent (1-3), we calculated, that because of long, uninterrupted TC holding of cities, both CS and Rogues daily income only from interrest is cca 1 000 000 caps.

 We dont know it exactly of course, but because this is BETATEST, and even you, CS and Rogues are bored, you could break your information embargo and tell us truth about this fact.


 Because of caps inflation due to interrest nad TC income, because of Random encounters stuff inflation, because you can steal dozens of thousands of ammo from Brotherhood, Enclave without be killed, there are a plenty of stuff.

 But also there are groups of players, that are not exploiting (or call it as you wish), and they dont deserve it.

 So if you will exchange old money to new money in ratio 1:1  until value of 10 k of old caps, 1:10, 1:25, 1:infinity (if you set adequates level), you can prolonger life of this era.

 You will create new accounts, and mone there money, so you will have more than 15 k new caps from 100 k old ones... But why you need more than 500 k caps.. only to buy infinite number of supermutants, there is not any other reason. We, VSB, have all bases (like every major gang), but we use only 2 of them regulary.. one as basic one and one for rookies.

 I am against new wipe, if new changes are not ready to implement (new crafting system, domination mode,...), because absence of major content changes after last wipe was a major disapoitment in whole 2238.

[Nyarla]

where is the massive amounts of caps you are talking about? or am i playing in the wrong server or the wrong time zone? if i can find 5k cash in a merchant n 24 real time hours, i am lucky. if i can find more than 5k, i begin to think that something is going wrong or it might be a trap.

people kill other players, loot their hardly earned stuff and sell them in the name of wtf trading companies. they earn massive amounts but this doesnt affect the economy, ha? stealing from lowbies )who wont even find a chance to resist or shoot back) and selling their stuff?.. at least TC requires some preparations and riskier than minigun bursting a 70 hp bluesuit in an underground mine.

i am a loner, i will never participate in big wars, i will never have silk toilet papers in my base, i don't have much to lose. but i've earned whatever i've earned by crafting and visiting the merchants all over the wasteland in the hopes of finding a few caps.

when someone complains about the PK, people say "weastland is hursh, find a bigger gun", so all i can say about this suggestion is "bugs happen, find a bigger gang"

[jan0s1k]

where is the massive amounts of caps you are talking about? or am i playing in the wrong server or the wrong time zone? if i can find 5k cash in a merchant n 24 real time hours, i am lucky. if i can find more than 5k, i begin to think that something is going wrong or it might be a trap.

people kill other players, loot their hardly earned stuff and sell them in the name of wtf trading companies. they earn massive amounts but this doesnt affect the economy, ha? stealing from lowbies )who wont even find a chance to resist or shoot back) and selling their stuff?.. at least TC requires some preparations and riskier than minigun bursting a 70 hp bluesuit in an underground mine.

i am a loner, i will never participate in big wars, i will never have silk toilet papers in my base, i don't have much to lose. but i've earned whatever i've earned by crafting and visiting the merchants all over the wasteland in the hopes of finding a few caps.

when someone complains about the PK, people say "weastland is hursh, find a bigger gun", so all i can say about this suggestion is "bugs happen, find a bigger gang"

We are talking about not thousands, but milions/bilions or how msh said that "infinite"

[Lordus]

where is the massive amounts of caps you are talking about? or am i playing in the wrong server or the wrong time zone? if i can find 5k cash in a merchant n 24 real time hours, i am lucky. if i can find more than 5k, i begin to think that something is going wrong or it might be a trap.

 You earn some money during TC. It starts at some value and that values is different for each city (450-1000 caps per hour). If you hold city longer, the number of caps is raising, so you can have even 250 000 caps from "magic chest" per real day from one city. Imagine situation, that you hold all cities for one week. (And both CS and Rogues did that, even for longer time). I will take average value 100 000 caps per day from each city, so it is 600 k per real day per one city. Multiply it by 7 days and you have 3 500 000 caps per real week. I remember, that first month were TC monopol of only 2 teams. Rogues and CS.

 Than multiply it by daily average interrest of 2 percent in FLC and add 2 months of not so uninterrupted, but also longer holding.

 And we are on that numbers.

 I think, that there should not exist something like current hour income from TC, but only percentage from trades made in city NPC traders, with maximum limitaion of income, because someone will, like every time, find some way how to exploit it. So you will get i.e. some drugs, ores, depends on location (like now) and amount of money will be depended of security you can provide in city (no security, no playres trading, no income, no supermutants hordes ).

[Kanly]

I think, that there should not exist something like current hour income from TC, but only percentage from trades made in city NPC traders, with maximum limitaion of income, because someone will, like every time, find some way how to exploit it. So you will get i.e. some drugs, ores, depends on location (like now) and amount of money will be depended of security you can provide in city (no security, no playres trading, no income, no supermutants hordes  ).

This may be a great innovation. If you have no trade in the city you control the city become poor and you get less money.
No need to be too gentle too, you may kill everyone is not in your gang, if you are a great gang you may use the city for commerce with your player and get money (protectionism and isolationism)but if you are a small gang or you are lazy and no trade happens in the city , the market go down  

Interesting

(by the way , I m nearly a loner, I don t cheat, and I m generous - giving away for nothing 30 - 50 k caps of goods for week, and now I have 1 200 000 caps between my 2 bank account ...

Is the trading that don t work well - maybe with no caps at all (why people found a cap worthy? there is anarchy in wasteland no central autority) with only barter and with merchant that buy ever at max half of the value that they use for selling ,   and yes interest in bank are a error , my humble opinion)

[Bulldog]

Item/money wipe is way too unfair for smaller gangs, my gang will be so f*ing pissed off if this happens that half of them would probably quit, cause they've spent numerous hours crafting, trading, farming and now just cause some gangs have enormous sums of money such a solution is ridiculous. Having millions of caps doesn't make them way stronger than the rest, the worst thing they can do is create hundreds of mutant leaders and just throw them all around the wastes. Do you think that this gangs would walk in leather jackets and Tommy guns instead of BA and P-90 if such bugs never existed? Izual, think about that, yeah, well, caps make their life easier, but it's their own problem, they miss a huge part of game-play, such as trading, farming, blah-blah. I'm perfectly happy with the way things are now and yes I'm in a small gang and money is a real problem for us, if we loose all our savings we'll be f*ed up, we were saving caps for some costly things, trading, farming hard and what should we get? F*cked up hopes and efforts?

[Kilgore]

However, we shouldn't forget that we are beta-testing this game and that it is more important to have a balanced economy than keeping our items for months.

Well, right. We are betatesting so we can as well not give a shit about some temporary bug giving uber caps ammount to some people and not force whole server to focus on craft and gathering testing on several weeks more (that's what would happen when people lose all their items, uber grind to get items to play effectively again).

You will probably post that I say something like that, because I profit from TC bug at the moment. Yes I profit, but it is no difference because we had a large ammount of caps already before the bug. Wipe wouldn't change much as we'll manage to get large ammount of caps after few weeks anyway, but for most players, it would rather slow beta-testing process or even cause some ragequits.

Better organised (not bigger what people usually say) gangs will be always ahead of average players and there is nothing bad about it, it's just reality.

1mln every day interest is out of comment, we would have to keep 50mln money in bank, are you insane Lordus or what? Unlimited ammount of caps is the ammount kept in bank that provides us with more caps than we spend on average day, for someone it can be 100k, for another 10M wouldn't be enough. We already achieved that level some time ago.

[Keldorn]

Keldorn: Ok, it's better when you use arguments than insults. So yeah, I understand what you say, it is mostly very true. Except that I'm not responsible for players telling you "WASTEMAND IS HARSH" (saying this is stupid).

I posted this suggestiong because I thought it was deeply unfair to have on one hand, small gangs that have to craft all day long etc; and on the other hand big gangs with unlimited caps.

BTW I noticed I didn't provide a good answer so I will now.

If you really believe that its unfair for big gangs to get more stuff than little gangs then reduce or eliminate cooldown timers.  Stop focusing so much on da wastelad is harsh with high risk travel quests.  Make quests take place within their respected cities or borders.  Make more quests that provide scaled exp without forcing people to kill a bajillion ants.  Let small gangs do through crafting what big gangs do through killing and robbing.

[Lordus]

we did mathematic calculation... the seriousness of the calculation is supported by fact, i did not calclulate there anything but as i told you, we have counted all gathered money you could get from TC multiplied by some awerage constant and then we used daily bank interrest, so this number is not sci-fi

 second fact is that we dont know your organisation, maybe you are zilions of small gangs united under one base/name, so your temates are stealing from magic box your money 

[Vindict]

I think it's a terrible suggestion. casual players will suffer most.

full wipe or no wipe +1