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Author Topic: Player vs. Player System.  (Read 9089 times)

Player vs. Player System.
« on: November 14, 2010, 01:41:45 pm »

My suggestion is in part about a feature that allows you to Enable/Disable your status for PvP.

Enabling this feature means you can be shot by any player at any time.  It also allows you to participate in PvP actions such as Town Control, Arena, Events, and so on.
Disabling this feature means you cannot be shot by another player, but shooting another player will result in you being Enabled for PvP.  You cannot participate in Town Control, or any other action that requires PvP.

Certain aspects of the above options can be effected by in game actions.  Mainly if you are Disabled for PvP, and you shoot another player, enter an unguarded town/area, enter a tent/base you will become Enabled until you leave those areas/stop shooting people and CD.  A possible addition is while in a Guarded town, if you break the rules in any fashion (steal and get caught, attack an npc/player, door block, ect.) you become Enabled; *and possibly blown away depending on your crime*

When going from Enabled to Disabled, a 5 minute cooldown can be in effect, meaning until that 5 minutes is up you are still Enabled, and doing anything that would normally Enable you for PvP will still do so, thus requiring you to wait another 5 minutes.

While Disabled for PvP, players can experience the Wasteland and Guarded towns in reasonable peace.  Any players that are traveling with you (tagged) may still injure you, and even shoot you.  *This takes away the chance for people to Rocket away at each other with no fear of AoE dmg*  Also anytime you use the Radio to send a homing signal you become Enabled along with everyone in your group and whomever uses the signal to enter your encounter.  *This making it so groups who travel in the using radio signals because they don't have Cha, are still effected by each others weapons. Also adds to the RP that if you're calling on a radio you're leaving yourself open*  A reason why this should be allowed in the wasteland itself is it can help balance the fact that in TB combat if you drop in on a group of PK's they get a full turn+ to decide where they're gonna shoot you.  In RT combat it allows for much the same balance because you can still run or fight depending on your style.

A later idea that was brought up is that only lower level characters have the option of not being flagged for PvP, again with the above stipulations still in place.


PROS:  This can drastically lower the amount of Guarded town player killings/bombings.  It can allow those players who aren't designing their characters JUST for PvP to explore and enjoy the game, perhaps leveling up to eventually join the PvP aspects.  Lower level players will not get nearly as abused or disheartened by overcharged PK's with nothing better to do than camp near popular areas.  This will allow people to more fully test and inspect many more areas of this beta, the reason being they won't be constantly forced to stop just because they aren't a level 21 PvP character traveling with 4+ people.  It may actually increase the player base, because the door is opened to more than one style of game play.  Higher end gear will mean more to people, those who wish to use it out in the wastes will only have to contend with NPC's and the many challenges they can bring.  Adding a sense of accomplishment when getting that gear knowing you don't have to just hide it away cause it's so easily lost.

CONS:  Many players who devote their time on this game to only hunting people will be discouraged and upset at the loss of targets.  It may become exploitable in some fashion I haven't thought of, thus causing more grief to players.  People may level up their non-PvP characters, then attempt the PvP aspects of the game, and become discouraged because of going up against pure PvP's.  People may choose to still grief low level players when encountered in the wastes by shooting all the stuff in the encounter and then looting it, but that's a far cry from losing everything you may have worked hours to get with no choice.


In all honesty having this feature added does not mean it HAS to stay, it is only a test after all.  Because so many of the things in this game that cause people grief and make it so much harder to do anything are connected to the fact that you can be shot anytime anywhere by anyone willing to do so, with GM's and Dev's unable to be on or around constantly to fix every exploit/exploiter makes this a possible solution.  Having a choice at the least in places where you 'Should' be safe could make a big difference to people and the game.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 06:45:16 am by Trokanis »
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Lordus

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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 01:48:59 pm »

dozens of unvurnerable looters parasiting on TC dead corpses stuff. Nice idea.

 For christ, at the moment, there is less player on the server than before. That means, that there are less PK players too. I dont understand, why you want change it, if this is not problem. As anti PK team, we oftem wait many minutes to find someone PK in Reno,.. and often we can find anyone.

 please, tell us, where hordes of PK players are. Maybe we are blind.
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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2010, 02:11:42 pm »

dozens of unvurnerable looters parasiting on TC dead corpses stuff. Nice idea.

 For christ, at the moment, there is less player on the server than before. That means, that there are less PK players too. I dont understand, why you want change it, if this is not problem. As anti PK team, we oftem wait many minutes to find someone PK in Reno,.. and often we can find anyone.

 please, tell us, where hordes of PK players are. Maybe we are blind.

I have been killed the last 4 nights in a row by PK'rs in different areas.  They are out there in the wastes.  Also as stated in the post a TC/unguarded area is auto-enable PvP all the time, no choice.  If you are in an area like that you should expect to have to fight for it.



Certain aspects of the above options can be effected by in game actions.  Mainly if you are Disabled for PvP, and you shoot another player, enter an unguarded town/area, enter a tent/base you will become Enabled until you leave those areas/stop shooting people and CD.  A possible addition is while in a Guarded town, if you break the rules in any fashion (steal and get caught, attack an npc/player, door block, ect.) you become Enabled;
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 02:17:14 pm by Trokanis »
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Sarakin

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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2010, 02:59:22 pm »

Invulnerable scouts, invulnerable looters, invulnerable flamers and the most hilarious - invulnerable gang that attacks every 5 mins by having first strike, always. This WOW mechanic wont fit fonline
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runboy93

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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2010, 03:20:28 pm »

That would destroy all fun from FOnline.
So i do not support this.

Lordus

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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2010, 03:59:03 pm »

Maybe you dont understand the concept of PK prevention.

 There are a lot of possible ways how to avoid PK situations and thats fair.

 1) check town preview
 2) dont visit TC cities, better wait few minutes after retaking
 3) check popular radio channel, irc and web for well known PK names
 4) dont be naive and realize that New Reno, Fortress and HUB oldtown,.. are de facto PK zones that concentrates robbers and their victims
 5) find a team member to help you
 6) contant anti pk gang to protect you if you are weak
 7) in guarded towns, use best possible armors and level up your char, hp so they cant kill you in one burst from one hex (if you have CA and 120 plus lives, there is not a big chance to kill you)
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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 05:36:08 pm »

This is FOnline... Please, don't try to destroy this game... Don't destroy one of the most important things, that makes it differ from other MMORPGs.
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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 06:59:53 pm »

I think Trokanis stated it was for GUARDED towns only and maybe newbie areas.

The northern towns IE reno are still pvp flagged along with SAD, Mariposa, etc, etc.

So yes plenty of lew for TC folks without invulerable people.

The only major change would how life would be in "new" areas and guarded towns.  If your a shopshooter/exploiter then too fuggin bad.   
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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010, 02:31:29 am »

Invulnerable scouts, invulnerable looters, invulnerable flamers and the most hilarious - invulnerable gang that attacks every 5 mins by having first strike, always. This WOW mechanic wont fit fonline

A gang that attacks where every 5 minutes, as stated any area that would allow for PvP actions, such as unguarded towns, unguarded areas, bases, and tents, will FORCE anyone in those areas to be Enabled for PvP until they leave those places and CD.  Meaning everyone can still camp their favorite places in New Reno, Klamath, The Den, Broken Hills, Modoc, Gecko, the Glow, the Waterworks, the Junkyard, the Themepark, the Warehouse, the Crater, the Toxic Caves, and any connected mines to unguarded towns.  

Added to an earlier post.  It was mentioned there are no people to kill in New Reno where you were camping waiting for them.  Well with a lack of targets for people to pick out in the wastes, may cause people to return to unguarded areas/towns to look for battles.  Bringing mass gunfights and possible gang wars to those places.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 02:33:13 am by Trokanis »
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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2010, 02:38:38 am »

This is FOnline... Please, don't try to destroy this game... Don't destroy one of the most important things, that makes it differ from other MMORPGs.

I don't see how allowing for certain areas to be SAFE as intended for originally in this game would destroy it.  The Dev's have constantly had to upgrade guards, reinforce guards in every 'guarded' town because of people abusing others.  And people who don't spend their time and make their money by destroying lowbie targets with no chance to fight back, may actually come to play this great game.

Imagine playing a character not built entirely for pvp, being able to craft, and fight critters without switching to 3 different alts.  Knowing that you just spent 2 hours mining, and crafting your first gear to go and survive against things in the waste, it won't be instantly destroyed by some lucky bored pk.
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Lordus

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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2010, 03:16:46 am »

Overregulating of PK phenomen is not way how to cure situation you describe.

 Part of current PKs do their killing because of no other way how to entertain themself in this game. Add anothr content and they will not do this. Other part do this because they like it to challenge real players, even weaker. You dont realize it, but they compenzate a lack of content in the game. Because of them, there can always be a anti PK role. Because of PK, there are more dangerous places (Fortress, HUB oldtown, northern cities), that are concentratitng their attention and it makes kind of event if you succesfuly visit and then return from that places.

 
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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2010, 03:43:29 am »

If people want epic fights then this is one solution.  Unguarded towns/areas will be the meeting spots where those with a beef or wanting to start shit can do so.

1.  Devs will add more content but thats is going to take a very long time since they are pre-occupied with 3d.  Also, its not because people are bored that they gank lowbies and steal their gecko pelt/10mm pistol.  They do it to be an ass.  Same with shopshooting/exploiters.  No amount of "content" is going to fix this (not to mention the content in game requires people to travel all over the world to level, which means a car, which means the need for parking spots,etc).  Devs taking a strong stance will help (for example one real easy fix is to make guards have 9999 hp like the enclave guys at the respawn points).  Either that or they can go the middle route and disable FLD in GUARDED cities).  

1b.  As for content, keep quests within their respected cities or just outside the borders.  This can be for PVP and non-flagged PVP towns.  Any quest that requires extreme travel (AKA broken ass train schedules, cars, very high outdoors), should be considered high tier quests with apprpriate exp and or money compensation.  It should be an option, NOT the only non-combat method for exp.

2.  The reason this game is dead is because its a one trick pony that caterz to sociopaths.  If you take in max server pop 300 in the morning and 100 some at night, thats 400 maybe 500 players at the most.  How many of those are AFK or busy doing non-combat things or non combat alts.  Big fights requires lots of people and co-ordination, no different than WoW raids.  For example if you plan on doing an 20 man event you better have around 40 folks total who want to go fight.  If people want big battles the server needs more players.  Trigger happy gankers/mechanics do not encourage this not to mention full loot drop on everywhere.

2b.  Also the paranoia doesn't help with people making friends.  Safe areas and quests in those areas allow people to work together and accomplish shit without being backstabbed just for the lulz.  Once people experience the game, get used to the quest and combat system, actually LEVEL to 21, we might get more folks who are ready ttake their first steps into PVP FLD land.

3. Again the one trick pony.  With the release of newer games as of recent (IE Fallout: New Vegas), a lot of folks have just stopped playing.  In order to encourage more folks to get into the game, you can't rely on FLD which yes attracts but also turns away many people.  
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 03:53:59 am by Keldorn »
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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2010, 03:51:52 am »

Maybe you dont understand the concept of PK prevention.

 There are a lot of possible ways how to avoid PK situations and thats fair.

 1) check town preview
 2) dont visit TC cities, better wait few minutes after retaking
 3) check popular radio channel, irc and web for well known PK names
 4) dont be naive and realize that New Reno, Fortress and HUB oldtown,.. are de facto PK zones that concentrates robbers and their victims
 5) find a team member to help you
 6) contant anti pk gang to protect you if you are weak
 7) in guarded towns, use best possible armors and level up your char, hp so they cant kill you in one burst from one hex (if you have CA and 120 plus lives, there is not a big chance to kill you)


1-7......  
You seem to misunderstand, this is not to protect you in UNGUARDED towns, this is for the places you should be safe, and (as an optional adjustment to my suggestion) possible areas where low players may start.

As far as 5-7, I travel with at least one if not more group members, and we aren't all level 21 full geared PvP people, and it doesn't matter cause if we drop in on a group of PvP people they get priority and we lose.  As far as wearing best gear in towns, that's just BEGGING to be shop shot, or hit by a kill/loot team.
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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2010, 04:00:02 am »

Maybe you dont understand the concept of PK prevention.

 There are a lot of possible ways how to avoid PK situations and thats fair.

 1) check town preview
 2) dont visit TC cities, better wait few minutes after retaking
 3) check popular radio channel, irc and web for well known PK names
 4) dont be naive and realize that New Reno, Fortress and HUB oldtown,.. are de facto PK zones that concentrates robbers and their victims
 5) find a team member to help you
 6) contant anti pk gang to protect you if you are weak
 7) in guarded towns, use best possible armors and level up your char, hp so they cant kill you in one burst from one hex (if you have CA and 120 plus lives, there is not a big chance to kill you)


5.  Team members may not always be around or may not have time to help you.  Again the survival guides suggests in the beginning TRUST NO-ONE.  So I need help yet I can 't trust nobody??

6.  Again who says anti-pk gang is going to have time for you?  Its like me asking LeMark to come with me to NCR because there are possible assholes there.  And then asking him to come with me to the Hub because their might be assholes there or I am doing a quest that requires a ridiculous amount of travel so I need an escort  for that too.  All on a cash strapped newb character?

7.  Guarded towns are suppose to be safe.  All bringing armor does is increease the amount of shit you can loose to exploiters  

7b:  Doing quests in town can get you killed.  Can't level from doing quests when you are DEAD due to an exploiter.

7:  Not one person but two or more can kill me.  Thats what it looks like whenever I see someone talking and posting screenshoits of exploiters/shop shooters/door blockers.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 04:04:09 am by Keldorn »
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Re: Player vs. Player System.
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2010, 11:50:47 am »

Keldorn, after reading this suggestion, please let me know if you have any ideas that may help this make this system more useful.  And any unforeseen ways you can think of it might get broken.  I tried to make a reasonable 3law loop so that one effected the other, and the other and so on.  Thanks for your input.
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