Other > Suggestions

Battle system suggestion.

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LagMaster:
this sugestion is half this sugestion

kttdestroyer:

--- Quote from: OskaRus on November 03, 2010, 05:48:12 PM ---Yep. Aiming takes time but it is nothing like given countdown. You aim and pull the trigger and shot is delivered instantly.
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The idea is one thing, the balance of it is another. The idea is the reason and goal. The reason is becouse the combat is a bit too simple in my opinion, and reason is becouse i would like it to be more braincell demanding. Yes, you aim, exacly. It is not point to make a sniper shot one shot after 7 seconds. The main point is, to make a diffrence between diffrent classes, to balance them out, how much time it takes to fire, thats the details and would have to be tested, i would start the tests for most AP consuming shot in game, and would set it at 2-3 seconds, depending how it works, correcting it.

--- Quote from: OskaRus on November 03, 2010, 05:48:12 PM ---Yep turning 180 degrees in real life with light machinegun (7kg) in hands and tactical west full of gear took me about half a second. Minigun weghts 14+- kgs and with straps it is reasonable weigth.
Advantage of looking right way before enemies approach is evident. You just can see them due to FOW. (Which is great feature IMO)
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Here you go, you start to understand, half a second ;) Impressive.
Yes, Fov is a great feature, and i believe it is something to build on.

--- Quote from: OskaRus on November 03, 2010, 05:48:12 PM ---True true. But what is the aiming you are doing yourself by clicking on enemy? Isnt it that?
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Mate, that is not aiming... You are not aiming... This is not Shot-em-up. What you do is that you tell your character to perfome an attacking action, which consist of aiming (chance to hit) and shoting (damage).

--- Quote from: OskaRus on November 03, 2010, 05:48:12 PM ---Actually I am more of strategy game and RPG player which sucks in FPS. ;-) I dont know how much do you involve in big organised fights like TC but there are really ways how to outsmart more powerfull enemy. Those fights start to look more like RTS which i really like. Flanking is really useful strategy now.
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Minimally, and in the end, critticals still decide the final outcome. If this is what you like, the strategy in all this, then i do believe you dont understand the idea simply, or cannot imagine how it would work.

--- Quote from: OskaRus on November 03, 2010, 05:48:12 PM ---That is happening. Good snipers with some PvP experience really holds all the time on max range from enemy and snipe from afar and big gunners are running through narrow streets to get to range.
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A bit it does, but it is not enough for my taste. There are possibilities of improvement still.

--- Quote from: OskaRus on November 03, 2010, 05:48:12 PM ---Well some actions filmed by rogues or chosens really look as nice as swat actions from movies. xD
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Awesome.

--- Quote from: OskaRus on November 03, 2010, 05:48:12 PM ---I will insult you who are for this suggestion but i thik that most of the suggestions for changing combat system are from Fallout singleplayers who want to own players in TB as they did in Fallout with npcs but have no good powerbuild, no will to make him, low PvP experience, low stuff and are in weak gang. Bad news for you. You will suck no matter combat system. Dedicated PvP groups of skilled players with finely tuned powerbuilds and top stuff will own you anyway.

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I bet i have TC more then you ever will ;)
Meet me in Hinkley sometimes if you got the guts, Name: Eraser.

OskaRus:
That sounds more reasonable. 2-3 secs for one sniper I can imagine to work bud hardly. other snipers would just run away. Imagine like you are lying down with rifle and waiting for enemy to pop out from trench is far different situation than watching the building if there would apear someone in window.

Combat surely could get some more options to fight and more tactical options even for one character than burst and shot in the eye and maybe sometimes nade or rocket. But they are discussed elsewhere. Like mines, forced fire, etc....

Which i still dont get is how this change would improve gameplay. Try explaining some new tactical options and we might discuss if there is more gain than loss if this would be implemented. I have never seen combat system like this in any game, if there is post a link.

kttdestroyer:

--- Quote from: OskaRus on November 03, 2010, 07:24:44 PM ---That sounds more reasonable. 2-3 secs for one sniper I can imagine to work bud hardly. other snipers would just run away. Imagine like you are lying down with rifle and waiting for enemy to pop out from trench is far different situation than watching the building if there would apear someone in window.

Combat surely could get some more options to fight and more tactical options even for one character than burst and shot in the eye and maybe sometimes nade or rocket. But they are discussed elsewhere. Like mines, forced fire, etc....

Which i still dont get is how this change would improve gameplay. Try explaining some new tactical options and we might discuss if there is more gain than loss if this would be implemented. I have never seen combat system like this in any game, if there is post a link.

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Some things might follow, we must remember a lot of things currently are adjusted around current system.

The thing you talk about sniper aiming at specific position is present in game called Jagged Alliance 2, which was one of more tactical games out there. Dont know how hard it would be to implement, but lets say that if you left clicked on empty hex (or maybe holding some button or simply a keyboard button activating this, diffrent ways to do this) your character would start aiming at this hex, if enemy walks into exacly this square, then your characters shot takes 50% less time or more. Firing time gives a lot options to build on.

With implemention of firing time, i think FOV could be extended, at least infront of character. Snipers maybe even get bonus in view hexes forward but penalty backwords when looking though scope (when sniper rifle in hand, or hunting rifle). But this on the side topic i guess.

I bet you have played such games, like i mentioned in other thread, even Fallout Tactics had something like this (Knifes faster then pistols, pistols faster then rifles). Even Wow has this, not all spells are cast instantly. To be honest, i dont know a game with fire arms where all diffrent guns fire instantly, all at the same speed... It is just natural, if you want to have balance between classes, you have to balance the DPS each character can deliver, there is no DPS when all weapons fire instantly (not that i would like to implement some kind of stat called DPS, its just good way to see how balanced the game is). When you meet a minigunner with a P90 it often ends in one burst agains one burst, then the minigunner hides, and DPS looses its point. Even though i did, you dont really have to compare to other games, just need to compare with nature, how things work in reallity, becouse, what fallout is, is a SCI-FI view on reality, it is based on same rules (at least much enough for us to believe in it). Characters are not walking upside down (most of the time), they have arms to hold weapons, and they have eyes which they use to see, and all of the sudden, they can do somethings that break this whole realistic logic. Its like AVV said, its about reasons and facts, its just natural simply, to have a minigunner turn slower then a pistol/smg user who only have to turn his arm where big gunner has to turn whole torso. That when sniper aims for eye, he takes his time to prepare his shot before firing.

How would this influence the gameplay? I believe it would put diffrent "classes" we got into their defined role a bit more then now. Sniper would be best suited for long shots while hidden, he would not be same good indoors unless he changes to pistol, and he would be best against static targets (makes sense, no?). Minigunners would be weaker indoors becouse their turning speed and firing time, especially when meeting SMGers or Pistolers, melee characters. They would be strong when holding/defending a tactical position especially outdoor. What it would simply do, is that it would encourage tactical usege of classes, it pushes the level of tactical possiblities, opens some weak spots in builds. In my opinion, making it whole a lot more intresting and each battle would be more diffrent then currently.

OskaRus:
Dis would need a HUUUUUUUUUGE engine change which 2238 devs will not do and nether do Cvet. Weapon speeds in FOT were almost instant. actions taking about half a sec or st.. Which is no different to me from instant. Actions taking a second or more would be just impossible to do in combat due to constant motion of enemies. Current system is far more similar to FOT system than the one suggested.

Turning speed is interresting but not involved in this suggestion topic. That might actually bring more SMGers to fight.

But this system would make sniping on max range impossible task, thus eliminating snipers from game. (other snipers would just evade shots and BGers could be able to run in range burst and run away before sniper can shot) I still cant see how it could work and be significantly different.

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