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Yes, I like it

24 (58.5%)

With some changes but yes

7 (17.1%)

I don't know

3 (7.3%)

No, I don't like it

2 (4.9%)

Cooldowns are better

5 (12.2%)

Total Members Voted: 41

[Sius]

This is very old idea of mine and I've already mentioned it here several times too but I think it deserves its own topic and I would love to see some feedback from devs if such thing is possible. So here we go:

Main purpose of this idea is to get rid of crafting cooldowns (devs don't stop reading here!). Current crafting system "click -> get item -> wait" is (I dare to say) for most people absolutely boring time killer, that can be easily bypassed with bots and stuff like that. Materials and resources are not rare at all and finding them is matter of minutes. I suggest make it vice versa. 0 cooldowns when obtaining resource, 0 cooldowns when crafting from them. Maybe only add "crafting time" so that spear takes like 5-10 real life seconds to craft but CA 40-60 to add some actual work while crafting and not only click -> bang, newborn CA spawned.

Anyway here is the main idea for search -> reward system:
When you enter world map you would be able to enter different encounter map by pressing "world/town" button. Such maps should be huge (something like 3x NCR size or even larger). Resources will be hidden from you on that map, revealing only when you see them through your field of view. Every source should have limited amount of materials you can get out of it. These maps could be pretty much anything from flat deserts up to abandoned gas stations/villages/highways and so on and they would have their own "life". I mean there should be something like geckos crossing it from one end to another or rats having nest near cave with ores, some tribals hunting wild animas, raiders scouting area and looting everything they can and so on.

I will quote blahblah (hope you won't mind): "Search -> reward. Forces the player to search for stuff for 2 hours and as a reward, he gets an item. Click -> get item -> wait. Allows player to 1) Get item, 2) Do other stuff at the same time. So in the end he gets items and can get experience or talk with others in Hub."

As I've said to him at that discussion search -> reward allows you to do other stuff too, limiting you only with place. So if you want to get some experience while searching for materials then instead of focusing only on materials you simply stop avoiding "troubles" at such maps and you go and fight those geckons, enslave some tribals, search that building etc. Also I must mention that if you want to have more you will have to search more or search with fellow crafter or gang member + farming bots will be useless since you have to manually locate resource and when you do you can obtain only limited amount of materials from it. This also means there could be some quests connected to these maps making quests unpredictable. I mean you will get quest to find old gas station where quest giver used to play as a child and bring him his "treasure" he left there - meaning someone could find such location with 1st try and someone would have to look for it for hours. But the real problem with such huge map is TB combat. Maybe it could be done by limiting TB only at limited range of person who triggered it but I don't have much faith is this "solution". Most likely huge maps = real time only  .

So lets get it summarized:
+ effort = outcome (no time restrictions or waiting, maybe only crafting time)
+ supports group play
+ making bots useless
+ new scavenger/hunter ground (with quest possibility)
+ adding exploration factor into the game
+ making materials rare (new situation at resource market = supplier/consumer)

- TB combat useless in such locations (if not modified)
- enormous amount of mapping needed (if such locations should be worth exploring)
- economy shock (well I think no one can predict how exactly will economy look like with this system)

- devs will not like it


I want to add that even if cooldown system never changes I would love to see those huge maps implemented simply because I lack exploration in this game (and I think I'm not only one). These maps have much to offer and it would be shame not to consider their pros and possibilities.

[RJ]

Pretty much what I wanted to see since always instead of cooldowns.

[bipboy]

I like your idea. Or simply make resources only appear in encounter maps (higher outdoorsman/science skill higher chance to find).  This will make mining much like slave run or brahmin/gecko hunting.
You can tag the location and come back later to dig them out (limited numbers). And also make certain minerals/critters appear in certain grid.

[Sius]

I like your idea. Or simply make resources only appear in encounter maps (higher outdoorsman/science skill higher chance to find).  This will make mining much like slave run or brahmin/gecko hunting.
You can tag the location and come back later to dig them out (limited numbers). And also make certain minerals/critters appear in certain grid.

I've suggested this idea when cooldown crafting was introduced and its main goal back then was to remove cooldowns from game entirely. But more I've been thinking about this more I liked the idea of exploration itself and what it can bring into the game. So now I think we can divide my suggestion into two parts - a) removing cooldowns and b) introducing huge explorable maps. I think they work the best when they are both combined as I've described them in my main post. So I think your suggestion maybe could replace cooldowns but it lack exploration factor and other pros that large maps have. And I don't want to loose such possibilities in future FOnline.

[Mayck]

I really like this idea, gathering resources wouldn't be such a stereotype.
Though I doubt it would ever be implemented.

[vedaras]

i would like the idea, to gather resources without cooldown, but to craft items with big cooldown (cause in real life it would be more or less like that)

[Solar]

And then to keep everything going at the same rate that countdowns are you would have to be able to find something at exactly the same rate. (Except this way it would be nigh on impossible to balance)

So instead of moaning about timeouts you would have people moaning about "Its so hard to find stufff"!111!!!"21!!2!"

However you want to disguise the delays to gathering, they will have to be there, be it cooldowns, searching, rocks with HP or anything else - it will still be equally dull - standing still, running about a map, endlessly hitting a rock, whatever else, unless you also add in something interesting (Travelling about the world map, some critters to overcome, forcing players together to open up PvP opportunities, etc).


Upon the wipe we will have a few changes to try to make the process a little less "passive" and a little more "active", whilst also reducing the timouts to be as lenient as we can possibly get them. Hopefully this will make it somewhat less of a tedious task whilst also preserving some kind of balance.

[Lexx]

To this comes that big maps aren't very good for the performance. Klamath is already with the maximum to work with. Everything else becomes a pain in the arse to maintain. Additionally to this, most people will most probably find it very annoying to run around all the time, as it can become very annoying already right now (just try to run from east of Klamath to west of Klamath a few times, it's just meh. Same for NCR and all other big places.

[Elmehdi]

To this comes that big maps aren't very good for the performance. Klamath is already with the maximum to work with. Everything else becomes a pain in the arse to maintain. Additionally to this, most people will most probably find it very annoying to run around all the time, as it can become very annoying already right now (just try to run from east of Klamath to west of Klamath a few times, it's just meh. Same for NCR and all other big places.

Well, there is a thin line between just running around and exploring. If you add some content, like resources spawning in random places, some npcs to kill, locked containers, hauses with some random stuff on shelves protected by raiders, friendly tribals hunting geckos, slavers on slave runs etc, then I'd much rather call it exploring and it's something that I would really look forward to.

Kind of a playground for players  I like it.

[Lexx]

Problem is, that it's just 'exploring' the first time. As soon as you have done it once, it's always the same and becomes tedious. That's why I like it more to add random content. But adding random elements is either very complicated or not possible in big fixed maps.

[Elmehdi]

Yeah, unfornortunately a lot of thngs would have to be random, in order for exploring not to become tedious.

[Sius]

Its not about disguising the delays to gathering its about making world matter and possible to explore. Now if you want to fight you go to northern cities, if you want to craft you go to southern or base, if you want to level up you travel until you get random encounter... wasteland is harsh but actually we don't have wasteland, only cities and encounters. Difference between cooldowns and this is that with cooldowns people always have to wait for something and they are not really playing. As someone at General Game Discussion said when you craft its like 30% being ingame and 70% watching youtube or playing solitare.

This would give wasteland a soul it lacks and for moaning that stuff is hard to find, well I think "search harder" sounds better to most players rather than "wait longer".

Performance is the other side of the coin and thats something where you devs have to decide if pros outweigh cons. I think I've read somewhere that FOnline engine is capable of creating maps many times larger than Fallout 2 ever could but being able and being usable are not the same  . And for annoying running well these maps should have their own life that should prevent them from being boring. Also excitement of possible "treasure hunting" could drive people to search such locations upside down. Everything depends only on mappers fantasy and skills so we won't get bored searching for materials yet we will not get too spoiled. Also exit grid should be accessible on every single step in such locations. I mean something like world/town button when you are already at the map. Because you simply don't change your position really so why should be swapping running for traveling at world map limited only to exit grids? So if you are not in combat you should be able to switch world map for desert and vice versa anytime you want.

EDIT: In ideal world you would come with solution to make everything on map random starting with environment, surroundings and ending with spawned NPCs and resources (kinda Diablo style). While that what should get spawned would be decided by players location, so if its desert we could get some highway, if its near shore then some fishing boats and tribals, if its ruined city then we get... ruined city. Well ideal world must be really nice place to play MMORPGs.
But when I remember few years ago something like Fallout MMO was pretty much considered an ideal world kinda thing. When I remember few months ago something like new player/item skins were the same deal yet here we are today and we have both. I will just wait for you to surprise me again few months later .

[avv]

Yes please.

If you remember the caravan car encounters which had resources in them, then try to recall what it was like to get mats from them: it was mildly exciting because there was a chance to meet someone.
Back in time when shopkeepers didn't have caps hardly ever, I used to travel to new reno to sell my stuff because the shopkeepers there were the only ones with caps. That was truly exciting. Watching out for playerkillers while trying to make fortune.

[Raengar]

I really wasn't into this idea at first but then something crossed my mind - rmember how in Arcanum you were able to travel by ground instead of worldmap? Probably such thing, with several tweaks, is possible - and would also suffice "explorers" needs as well as make some rare resources available. It is big of a feature enough to deserve its own thread, but it is heavily based on OP's suggestion, so I will leave it here for now.

1) make a "randomly" generated bigger map available for each square of worldmap every time somebody enters the square (tents will probably just reset the map) and delete the map when no players remain on it. Let us call those maps "travelling" maps.
2) make "travelling" maps ~4x bigger than normal, more deviated - probably created from several "parts" (gas stations, river banks etc - lots of people love mapping and I bet you will get enough help from the community with it)
2) when someone leaves a town, tent, base or a "travelling" map, he can choose to use worldmap or continue "travelling" - this also could be set up in game options, like combat mode selection. If he chooses to "travel" - he just gets another "travelling" map
4) going through 1 such map will net him 1 square of worldmap passed (so the "travellling" map will need to have 8 different exits - to appear top left top mid, top right, mid left, mid right, and 3 bottom borders of a worldmap square if player chooses to stop "travelling" and go to worldmap.

Here are the additional up and downsides of replacing encounter maps with "travelling" maps
pros:
1) more diversity and fiun in caravan/partol/animal/slave hunting - beiiger maps and different groups of mobs on same map
2) resource gathering in between of current and Sius's system: rocks/minerals/plants are visible on the map so you kow where to go - just go to them hoping there will be no mobs/player traps in your way
3) gathering cooldowns can be removed that way, because you risk being found by mobs and other players every second you remain on map.

cons:
1) requires a lot of work to implement
2) bots are still possible in distant corners of the worldmap
3) makes loners/new players even more vulnerable to PKs (honestly i don't think it's bad, but, what the hell)
4) probably sucks

Please discuss.

[Lexx]

Probably such thing, with several tweaks, is possible

Not with the FOnline engine in the actual state. Also keep in mind, the Arcanum worldmap was build in many small maps and then merged into one big. We can't do this kind of stuff already because of the limited graphic set. Except if you want to have whole west coast as one flat desert ground.