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I agree, absolutely

12 (34.3%)

I agree, but i would change something

8 (22.9%)

I disagree, because of some ideas

6 (17.1%)

I disagree, absolutely

4 (11.4%)

I abstain

5 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 35

Voting closed: May 08, 2010, 07:57:26 pm

[Lordus]

 I am ending my participation on this process.

 I realize something.

 The purpose of this was to involve many players to make balance multiplayer PvP system like Fonline (and Fallout) deserves. I hoped that if one suggestion will be supported by many players, it could help developers to make right changes.

 But now i see that existing PvP players dont want to change anything on their builds, they dont even want to add something new to unused class of weapons because they are afraid that they will lost their supremacy.

 Non PvP-experienced players, or many of them, did not see the need to make change, because if they are killed by PK power build, they think that it is becaus of numbers of enemy players, or because they did not take their best stuff. They did not realize, that if we could succeed with this, they will no need to create pvp powerbuild to defend themself in mines or in unguarded city, if they dont meet enemy there.

 So i realize, that in this process is imposible to achieve n.1 goal. I like that many players put their ideas here, like Avv, Sius, because their idea were inteligent, with good amount of overview of the problem. But if we will continue with this boys, it will be only something like accademic debate with no chance of realization. I admit that i have not personal requirements and time to create own pvp system and put it my own SDK project. Also i think that community of fallout is not so wide, so separation of players into more projects will not be the best way.

 But at least, we have defined why is current system unbalanced, we have move our point of view on the pvp builds (that we did not calculate only with 2 classes (sniper and burst one (BG), that we realize that balancing across sniper class and BG is moving in circles from the first era.

 But i predict, that if you want to balance small guns class (no sniper class)  and grenade, HtH, melee, with any others, it will not be possible without visible nerfing of BG and sniper class, or hidden (createting ANTI BG class/anti sniper class).

 My epiloque is, that i still think, that PvP system of Fonline is not kind of that Fallout multiplayer modification deserves.

[Drakonis]

aw man dont give up. I mean yeah we have a situation that reminds me the curruption of the monetary system... but maybe someday... well untill SDK is released. im pretty sure that I will have enough free time to rework whole fonline character and pvp system. Who knows- many suggestions in this thread sounded reasonable :] btw. Anyone who would like to help me is welcome when SDK is released

[LeMark]

Hum, you did a great job and I respect all the time you take for this...

Why I don't post before? Because you totally lose me in the class / ability proposition / etc.., for me the game have to stay close to original fallout... not a WOW in Fallout univers...

[Sius]

Hum, you did a great job and I respect all the time you take for this...

Why I don't post before? Because you totally lose me in the class / ability proposition / etc.., for me the game have to stay close to original fallout... not a WOW in Fallout univers...

Thats why this thread is here. To FIND the best solution and then support it with majority of players and set things in motion. And until people start to care about the game and how to improve it then it will lead us nowhere.

[Lordus]

Hum, you did a great job and I respect all the time you take for this...

Why I don't post before? Because you totally lose me in the class / ability proposition / etc.., for me the game have to stay close to original fallout... not a WOW in Fallout univers...

 Thx.
 Class system is only name for build you created. No new perks, quests, proffesion is needed. (we have sniper class now, it is 10 pe + 10 lck + snper rifle or laser rifle,....). I tried to find new possible roles for different builds.

 When devs transformed TB single player game into the realtime multiplayer, everybody was testing new possible chars. After few eras, builds crystalized to best shapes and this determines the player combat behaviour.

 I think, that if devs want to create more variable game, they have to invented new class (new kind of char combat behaviour), which will be enough strong to challenge current builds(char combat behaviours) and then to set up required atributes (character/weapons/enviroment) to adequate level.

  I.e.: Grenadier.

 What is his purpose: main battle unit? support? ok, support.. in which way: harm enemies? destroy their armors? "blind enemy"? Ok last one is good. Its purpose will be to temporary blind (1PE) and immobilize (slow movement only and -xx of AP of target). This will be counter weapon agaisnt BGuns. How we can effectively achive this purpose? Use sneak. But how many sneak we will need? Lets make prototype of grenadier, with max throwing range, set up other SPECIAL points and calculate how many skill points will left if you have that rest point in inteligence. Hmm, this is not enough, because other chars can do the same with better (better firepower) gun. Hmm, lets set up some perk/limits for other weapons/... . We have everything ready? Lets test it, if it is already useful as it looks in our heads.

 I think that it is hopeless if devs will add at random new skill/weapon in expectation of natural balance. Especially if firepower of some weapons is too big and there is not place for others.

[avv]

Well now what? We had a promising thread going on, well promising by means of its subject but not by means of players participating it. It was good to have some discussions in matter-of-fact way. Thanks to Sius, Lordus and Drakonis for participating. A disagreeing opposition would have been welcome but it failed to discuss the subject in decent manner.

[JustGreat]

Well now what? We had a promising thread going on, well promising by means of its subject but not by means of players participating it. It was good to have some discussions in matter-of-fact way. Thanks to Sius, Lordus and Drakonis for participating. A disagreeing opposition would have been welcome but it failed to discuss the subject in decent manner.

I don't see the point of arguing because it is like the picture with a face and lamp, one person sees a lamp another person sees a face when looking at the same picture. To be able to have an intelligent conversation you need to be able to see both, and I am sorry to say but most of the active posters here are lacking that.

P.S I don't play BG.

[Drakonis]

I don't see the point of arguing because it is like the picture with a face and lamp, one person sees a lamp another person sees a face when looking at the same picture. To be able to have an intelligent conversation you need to be able to see both, and I am sorry to say but most of the active posters here are lacking that.

P.S I don't play BG.

Facts:
- Discussion was opened to IMPROVE pvp. making fights longer and more interesting... and FUN.
- Implementing some new tactics
- increasing number of possibilites while fighting.
- making pvp less perk/build dependant so we actually have more PvP rather than just POWERBUILDvsPOWERBUILD or POWERBUILDvsDEADMEAT

For saying that we lack ability to see from diffrent perspectives I must say you are a hypocrite, man. Seriously: I'm a dedicated rolepayer however in my lifetime iI trained about 20 powerbuilds in purposes of PK/testing/discovering new possiblities. I hava participated in both big and minor pvp. Ambushes and open fights. Usually I hide under a fake name because most "PvPers" hate me for my roleplaying suggestions and I could never get to try xx vs xx pvp.

I have been TESTING 2238 for many many month with a recent break for 5 months. after my return I allready trained 5 characters to 21 in matter of days per. I can assure you that fights are too fast. PvP is way too much character build dependant and overalll fun/frustration ratio is still suffering. I mean you have to spenda lot of time to get stuff you can usually loose in matter of seconds(and thats what usually happens for people from smaller gangs/loners). I see both sides and I see that current PvP database is afraid of changes in fear of loosing their SUPREMACY. 2238 is corrupted and infested with power greedy factions, rather than populated by real deal testers that would like to see the game improved(of course there are exceptions.. but still.

[Frosti]

I agree 100% with Drakonis. Lots of players play FOnline not to betatest but to use not balanced or completly overpowered 'features' that often happen to be in beta test and are all aggrovated when someone is pointing  things that need to be balanced.

And instead of betatest we have feast of increasing e-penis by using overpowered 'stuff'.  I looked at this thread and it seems to be all okay and nice, however my hope for FOnline to have balanced PvP and gamepley are long gone and I give up with them when I meet such an carrupted betatesters in game and on forum...