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PvP

25 (40.3%)

PvE

37 (59.7%)

Total Members Voted: 60

[TKs-KaBoom]

It's suddenly dawned on me that the inherent interests of the two biggest communities are intrinsically incompatible.  The question is simple, in the future what direction should development support at the obvious cost and most likely irreparable harm to the other?



*your vote doesn't matter, just like IRL , I'm just curious.

[Ox-Skull]

Hmmm..thats an interesting question.

With PvE they need more places like glow or ares, of varying difficulty, so newbies can attempt some lowly raider cave, or a ghoul infested building. Mind you they will need a friend or 2 to be succesfull. Only a leveled tank character could solo it.
Something like joining the NCR police or similar kind of things are needed for the PVE/Rpers.]
Like the BOS quests, but what happened to it?


As with PvP, I believe this is where the game is at. But right now with this FR stuff, it just seems like a joke to even think about trying to get in on TC. I dont TC or PvP rarely at all, but its not that hard to see things that are going on.
Personally i think a character limit of 3 would be quite acceptable.
With the addition of adding things like setting laws and things of a similar nature for the controlling gang of a town, is the right step in PVP/TC.
Without a PvE/RP element incorparated into TC it will always be the same boring thing.
Just depends if the vet PVPers want stuff like laws and other things that need attending to in there town,besides blowing someone away.

[manero]

PvP...limit...laws...things that need attending to in there town,besides blowing someone away.

No, no, no. Pvp is no holds barred competition man. This is why it's cool.

[TKs-KaBoom]

No, no, no. Pvp is no holds barred competition man. This is why it's cool.

...hence the incontrovertible incompatibility...

[Trokanis]

I wouldn't say they're incompatible, there are many games that have both pvp, and pve successfully, the issue is the implementation of the systems.  Right now just certain factors on both sides of it need changes to make either viable apart or together.  As stated above there aren't really enough PVE areas and options to draw that kind of crowd, and the assault of pvp in every case tends to hurt even the pve that we do have.  I don't really want to see pvp go away, but I wouldn't mind seeing changes, though the pvp'rs and pk'rs are soo scared about that, that we won't be seeing any changes anytime soon.  Another thing is the fact that some of the pve things have strange restrictions, things like they're designed for larger groups with no solo or duo options, or are just not viable for play, there's only soo much time you can spend scavving in the wastes before that little red lightning bolt becomes the bane of your existence.

The truth is, full world pvp regulated by nothing more than each individual players morals and whims is incompatible with pretty much anything including fun full world pvp.  Most of the successful games out there that are either full pvp or a mix work because they feature things that help limit the abuse players can do to other players.  Because as humans given the chance to just waylay on people and not care a fair percentage will do it, some because they were picked on when they were younger, others because it's the only time they can indulge that aspect of their psyche.  I'm all for having fun and indulging in a little fantasy, there were times where I sat with unlimited nades in Halo just bombing the hell outta spawn points, but it gets old, because there's no challenge or skill involved.  Some people get addicted to that high, now this doesn't translate much into TC here in fallout but that has it's own issues too, with Fast Relog and such.

Basically trying to maintain a game where the players are left completely to their own devices without much of a set goal, will and does lead to chaos and mayhem.

[TKs-KaBoom]

a bit off topic imo, I'm not delving into the "ethics" or "morality", just the mechanics of the game....  for instance PvP favors rt and "balanced" builds vs other "balanced" builds which imo retards the whole rich tapestry of viable builds possible down to hmmm max hp bg tank with SS (BGonline 2238....  This mentality of favoring PvP also limits the use of other "classes" like ew and cripplers (Apes hate that, they cry so many baby tears, enough to fill 30 gallon buckets daily, its really really sad...), sg pistoleros and melee for example...  Favoring PvP also relegates most skills as not usable for them such as fa, science, repair, outdoorsman, etc,.  They simply have no use for such skills, they are not going to put any of there precious skillpoints into those categories...  Alot of gear is extranous to PvP, carts anyone?  whatever, these are just some examples, in no way meant to be exhaustive, the point is they are "mutually exclusive" desires and sets no matter how much you'd like to think they can coexist, they can't.

[DocAN.]

a bit off topic imo, I'm not delving into the "ethics" or "morality", just the mechanics of the game....  for instance PvP favors rt and "balanced" builds vs other "balanced" builds which imo retards the whole rich tapestry of viable builds possible down to hmmm max hp bg tank with SS (BGonline 2238....  This mentality of favoring PvP also limits the use of other "classes" like ew and cripplers (Apes hate that, they cry so many baby tears, enough to fill 30 gallon buckets daily, its really really sad...), sg pistoleros and melee for example...  Favoring PvP also relegates most skills as not usable for them such as fa, science, repair, outdoorsman, etc,.  They simply have no use for such skills, they are not going to put any of there precious skillpoints into those categories...  Alot of gear is extranous to PvP, carts anyone?  whatever, these are just some examples, in no way meant to be exhaustive, the point is they are "mutually exclusive" desires and sets no matter how much you'd like to think they can coexist, they can't.

cool story bro, you should try PvP someday

[Trokanis]

TK it wasn't off topic, and I wasn't talking about the morality either, I was talking about the fact that the whole pvp system in this game is based off the actions of the players and that is where the issues arise that plague this game, that don't plague other games that have pvp/pve.  When the only guiding factor to what you do in the game is how you feel with no rules or guidelines to at least slightly keep you within a scope of actions you are left with chaos.  That is why the pvp has trouble working in this game, not because it's incompatible with pve but because it is unchecked and then washes over pve like the bombs of old.

You are correct though that the game favors certain builds and that can take away from PvE, but again that isn't the game that requires it, it's the player base.  Some of my so called pve characters do just find in game against most anything but a drugged up pk with an uber build.  It's a choice to make an uber build, and it's kind of a forced choice because you know the others you encounter in the pvp setting will have done the same.

[TKs-KaBoom]

Well I can already see this is futile... mods just lock it....I'll sit back and watch the stupidity in silence.... is that a cool enough story for ya bro?  Please feel free to have all crits, small guns, melee, unarmed, grenades nerfed and whooomp whoomp rock em sock em robit your fucking brains out....  leaving your successful wars of fast relog attrition due only to your awesome battlefield tactics of running as close as you can, firing hoping to 1hex while spamming SS.....  Till you realize and can admit that is the sum total of PvP, there really can be no higher level of discourse and conversation.

[café saké]

If i can vote, i take pvp and pve feature.

Like a caravan trip who impact in town's bartering (and towns rewards box), where you can play raider or guard.

I don't think it's impossible to attenuate the conflit pvper/pver.

[brad smalls]

this game without PVP would be empty in 2 seconds

[Gruik]

Like a caravan trip who impact in town's bartering (and towns rewards box), where you can play raider or guard.

I see what kind of feature you are talking about, and I totally agree. Players shouldn't play different games, but a complete and homogeneous one. There sure are many features that could satisfy both PvPers and PVErs, just need a proper way to implement them.

EDIT :

this game without PVP would be empty in 2 seconds

Sure thing.

[Trokanis]

It's not futile just because people don't see it your way TK.  It's just the way the game is, there are plenty of pvp/pve games that work, and many that don't.  This game is just inherently complicated based on the fact it's being built to do things never intended by it's base roots.  I don't think pvp should be taken out, and I do like the little pve there is in game, it just is that one smashes over the other.

[Desert Mutt]

If you wanna make PvP and PvE compatible, then gameplay should be changed in the way that it doesn't require army of ALTs to play the game... but that's not the way game is going... because, you know, this wasteland is not harsh enough....

[Sarakin]

For good PvE, you need to regularly add more and more content, because once you beat the hardest setting, theres nothing else to do, everything is scripted and will behave the same way.
On the other hand, in PvP, every opponent and situation is unique and once you attain "perfect" balance, players will entertain themselves, hence devs should cater for PvP more.
But having good both PvE and PvP is possible, but Id definitely "fix" pvp first.