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Author Topic: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.  (Read 9164 times)

Solar

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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2012, 01:43:55 pm »

Because its ultimately a survival game. If everything is there for free then there is absolutely nothing to achieve (for people who aren't going to be taking part in PvP).

I have no problem with PvP activities delivering enough equipment to fuel the next few battles, such as the ammo rewards in TC, because those people will eat through lots of stuff

I'd even extend that to harder PvE (the only thing we have to facilitate this are encounters at the moment) where beating harder encounters should deliver you enough stuff to fuel your next few attempts.
 
But having something like stealing from encounters which was little risk, little effort and poured huge amounts into the game and could be done by anyone with absolutely no limits was rediculous.



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Nice_Boat

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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2012, 05:58:36 pm »

Because its ultimately a survival game. If everything is there for free then there is absolutely nothing to achieve (for people who aren't going to be taking part in PvP).
Does being a survival game entail being boring? I mean, people generally are having fun when they either are making progress or are struggling against a difficult obstacle to make progress. Now consider this - a large part of this game is fighting. Actually, every single activity a player can undertake to make progress (gain exp, get new items, gain fame or influence) requires fighting - about the only thing you can do that doesn't involve killing stuff is being a 100% doctor, and even then without fighting you have no people to heal. Fighting makes you expend ammunition and drugs real fast. You're saying that ammunition and drugs should be hard to get and require crafting aside from the occasional TC or PvE reward that only the best players (who don't really progress getting these rewards because endgame is about teamplay, not building up your survival equipment), but what progress is the player making when crafting these items? They're going to be lost the moment the player does something interesting anyway. That's not building on the survival theme, that's assaulting the playerbase with boring gameplay they neither want nor seek.

I have no problem with PvP activities delivering enough equipment to fuel the next few battles, such as the ammo rewards in TC, because those people will eat through lots of stuff
Well, these rewards are still far from compensating for what you have to bring to make a reasonable attempt at winning in TC - and even if they were enough, what about the losers? Back to where they started? But they don't want that, they already went through the entire survival-figure-it-out phase, they just want to try again and have some payback. So again, you're forcing people to reexperience gathering stuff (which gets easy really fast, but never stops being time consuming) instead of doing what they want to do. More grind, more bad gameplay, absolutely no survival stuff because once you learn the ropes nothing is a threat and even if you die you're way past the point of caring about that.

I'd even extend that to harder PvE (the only thing we have to facilitate this are encounters at the moment) where beating harder encounters should deliver you enough stuff to fuel your next few attempts.
Same thing really as with PvP, except this one is slightly easier on you, but more repetitive. You expend a lot of stuff, risk dying, receive negligible rewards when compared with the effort required to have a go at it. And once you're out of bullets (and you will be, fast), it's back to the same old grind you've learned to do effectively a year ago and are getting sick of. You don't even have to die/fail to be forced to do it.

But having something like stealing from encounters which was little risk, little effort and poured huge amounts into the game and could be done by anyone with absolutely no limits was rediculous.
I agree with this one, but having to do boring, easy work before you're able to actually play is no solution. Why can't the basic ammo and drugs be just readily available at the base facilities once you reach the stage of building your own outpost? I'm talking hiring a specialist that's going to stand there and give you some with X hour cooldown. You'd still have to be wary of dying, but at least your experience of the game would be way more fluent. Yes, that'd make those supplies as common as water and sand are irl, so NPC vendors shouldn't trade in them - but then again, the only other option is grind, and nobody really wants to grind just to play (because you can easily grind for hours and make no progress because of a single screwup).
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 06:03:07 pm by Nice_Boat »
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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2012, 06:29:25 pm »

I dont think crafting now is boring, it is better than ever(i mean craft not obtaining BP) because when you PVP, PVE,trading you have much stuff to dissasemble so you have resources for craft.Problem only with ammo because you need powder for craft it, it can be solved by adding ammo dissasembling to obtain powder. Aslo can be team quests for ammo/stuff, faction like BoS or Enclave must resupply their members, more ammo in shops. Anything but not recieving ammo for free...
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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2012, 07:58:18 pm »

If this game is about fun and survival, why not delete ammo?

Survival aspect is to figure out how to get a gun. Then when you have the gun, it has always infinite ammo. All problems solved.
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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2012, 08:18:44 pm »

Skycast, crafting is boring as hell. Go here and click click click, go there and click click click... is this fun? No, at least not for me. I don't want to get stuff for free, .223, .22, 7.62, these types of ammunition can be obtained in a very entertaining way, by killing NPCs. Remember, there is always only one Raider with FN FAL, so 20-60 ammo from one encounter isn't that many. I even think that one crafter is able to mass produce more 7.62 than I can farm.

The problem with 5mm isn't that they are easy obtainable, but that they can be sold for huge ammount of caps at vendors. One active player using minigun or even avenger a lot needs like thousands of 5mm every day. I mean few days ago, we had intensive fights at Gecko, I lost 6 maybe 7 sniper rifles, ammo and armors. So I wasted almost 300 .223 which is ok. If I were playing with avenger or minigun having 400-500 ammo with me, I would wasted 3500 of 5mm. And it's only one evening. You still want to tell me that few 5mm should be hard to obtain? Don't forget that you need also weapons, armors and drugs. Should I really spend hours of digging, travelling, crafting just to be able to have 15 minute fun in some PvP?
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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2012, 09:21:54 pm »

Go here and click click click, go there and click click click... is this fun? No, at least not for me.
It is not fun, but it is not a big problem to spent 1 hour for crafting and have stuff for few days.
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falloutdude

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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2012, 10:24:20 pm »

It is not fun, but it is not a big problem to spent 1 hour for crafting and have stuff for few days.
.... with armors this is true but with ammo cant craft enough for few days in 1 hour.
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Andr3aZ

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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2012, 01:07:22 am »

IMO all-geared PvP fights with reinforcement groups and happening all 15-30 minutes shouldn't even be in the game.
I understand the fun PvP can be between gangs and I am glad you have fun with the game. But exactly here lies our problem.

You see, some people just want to fight. And they don't want to spend much time on the equipment for that. Also they want to fight often, and when they feel like it.
Other people want the RPG aspect of the game. Surviving the wastes, looking for something that could be useful and defeating hostile inhabitants of the wastes.

Now put those two kind of players in one game. This can't go right. You can find a balance between both but I think it's kinda hard.

nice_boat says everything in this game is about fighting. I say if everything is about fighting then we took a long jump away from the original fallout RPG.
But I also respect his and others wish to fight 24/7.

How to solve the everlasting issue? Beats me :-/
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Nice_Boat

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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2012, 02:05:17 am »

nice_boat says everything in this game is about fighting. I say if everything is about fighting then we took a long jump away from the original fallout RPG.
But I also respect his and others wish to fight 24/7.

How to solve the everlasting issue? Beats me :-/

Once you realize it's not really an issue because the game encourages alts, multilogs and meta- stuff so much that RPG is next to impossible I think it becomes rather simple. I just can't see how 2238 could ever be more RPG-oriented than, say, Mount and Blade which is more or less an economic game with pretty complicated combat. And to be honest, this RPG delusion is responsible for the most retarded stuff like NCR army in Redding, parley etc. You can have an RPG-only server, you can have a competitive server revolving around expanding your economic base and faction combat but you can't really have both in one because that's two totally different styles of play.
Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2012, 02:20:04 am »

I don't think RP is impossible in FOnline 2238. Good thing is open world, you can go everywhere you want and do whatever you want. Bad thing is missing content, which would encourage a good RP. Details... like I don't really understand why 2238 has (sorry for that word) ugly random encounters only. Everywhere you can find only rocks, desert or ruins. Nothing more. TLA servers abound with variety of farms, tents or old gas stations encounters.

Probably it's very hard for developers to create a new content, but this would involve only few new maps and everything would look great. Also not only lockers, but items (even low tier) spawning inside caves and buildings would be cool. In the times of WWP when we were travelling to the south with our caravan, I was hoping that we encounter some player and that we either kill him or talk to him. You know, we wanted to experience some new adventure.
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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2012, 02:32:39 am »

I think player interaction was supposed to give that content at a great deal of it , trading , interacting ... umm .... alright who am i kidding combat is the content for now , you can't expect to add few quests and declare game has more content now. Sooner or later that get's old , forgot , boring ... so maybe players really need to make the content on their own. When 2238 drama happens on forum about ingame actions , those actions was the content.

Sounds weird , but has some point ... i think i should sleep now.

...

Delusional ...

Personally each city is a battlefield for me , i actually don't go to make friends there but as soon as i enter city , i evaluate my surroundings for potential threat no matter what. I don't know is it me or the game.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 02:36:52 am by T-888 »
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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2012, 02:59:52 am »

Probably it's very hard for developers to create a new content, but this would involve only few new maps and everything would look great. Also not only lockers, but items (even low tier) spawning inside caves and buildings would be cool. In the times of WWP when we were travelling to the south with our caravan, I was hoping that we encounter some player and that we either kill him or talk to him. You know, we wanted to experience some new adventure.
It is not a big deal to create content like maps and items by 2238 community, even we have many ideas and can help in their implementations but the biggest question if devs will accept any help or not ;D
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Eternauta

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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2012, 03:57:16 am »

Once you realize it's not really an issue because the game encourages alts, multilogs and meta- stuff so much that RPG is next to impossible I think it becomes rather simple. I just can't see how 2238 could ever be more RPG-oriented than, say, Mount and Blade which is more or less an economic game with pretty complicated combat. And to be honest, this RPG delusion is responsible for the most retarded stuff like NCR army in Redding, parley etc. You can have an RPG-only server, you can have a competitive server revolving around expanding your economic base and faction combat but you can't really have both in one because that's two totally different styles of play.

In 2238, the pr0 pvpers are always whining about lack of balance, amount of time lost getting the few weapons and armors they use (which are no longer "powerful" items but rather "not shitty" items), etc.

"Mad Max Wannabes" and especially noobs spawn their one and only character in the middle of nowhere, get all excited when they grab a Mauser, run into towns looking for other people, feel it's a great step to get level 1 Gunsmith SG profession, etc.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: 2238 is not for pr0 pvpers, it demands too much metagaming, they feel the game "forces" them to alt and even cheat.

Instead of making a separated RPG-only server, I think players who want to have a pure PvP experience (which is nothing bad in itself) should look for alternative options such as FOnline: Battleground... And players who want to roleplay or at least experience some real "Fallout/postapo feel" could simply stay here and wait for devs to make new quest and other cool content, because devs wouldn't have to be paying attention to all the whining coming from the PvPers who complain because "this build is useless", "that build is op", "this item was nerfed too much" or "this new perk makes no fucking sense".
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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2012, 03:14:31 pm »

We won't wipe stuff away. We were always going to have things go madly wrong with the economy because theres lots of new things to try and balance.
 

Yeah, 80k caps an hour isn't enough  ???

Lets be conservative and say 50 people on every hour, thats 4 million added to the game an hour, 96 million added every day and 2,880,000,000 added a month. With conservative estimates.

thanks god there is no place to sell them
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Re: Wipe out MFC, SEC, 5mm AP, explosive rockets.
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2012, 03:52:43 pm »

what doo you mean ? all shops with bg weapon buying them, so weapon stock gonna consist from used by sf caravans/hub/vc guys broken ca and 5mm and rockets instead of alot miniguns, lsw, ca+ca helmets, p90, sniper rifles, rocket launchers, gatlings, alot other guns and some gauss at some merchants.

at least det ca+ca helmets from all this merchants can be scienced, but owerpowered few kk stock of 5mm is still owerpowered useless stock.
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