Well, roleplaying is a style of play, not a quality of the system itself. To roleplay you actually don't need anything more than a text chat, but that doesn't mean roleplaying will work in every setting. To roleplay, you need a limited group of people who agree on a set of accepted behaviours - which is impossible on 2238 because the nature of the game is open.
In a way, what you say is not false, but Quake is a FPS while FOnline allows players to develop characters with different skills and characteristics, etc.
Therefore it's the equivalent of trying to run a DnD session in a pub with a bunch of drunken chavs who don't even know who the fuck you are. You end up getting frustrated and/or losing a few teeth in the process. That's why I said that Q3 is almost on the same level as 2238...
However, FOnline:2238 is an online version of Fallout, which is a RPG. No one said "this is RP server" like in Wasteland 2155 for example, but it comes from a RPG game and no one said "this is PvP/strategy server" either.
So the point is, 2238 is not a bar and is not Quake. It's "Fallout Online", and since Fallout was RPG, I don't get why people play it as an strategy game, or PvP battleground. Features encourage that? Yeah, but not so much. There is TC, all right, but maintaining the economical infraestructure your gang needs to be really active in TC demands too much time spent in boring activities. And to start that infraestructure (first base), some players abused a quest. This makes me think there's something wrong with playing 2238 *entirely* as a Fallout Age of Empire.
Scrapping what exactly? It's all about adjustments...
For example influence, and if Solar had not mentioned it on his post, that "TC quest" system he wanted to implement. They took out relog timer, they implemented Silent Death and then nerfed it... Too much effort is wasted implementing and/or deleting PvP related stuff, or at least because of (usually high level, tier 3, faction) PvP. Of course, you can say "but it's still about adjustments", but the playerbase is never satisfied with adjustments, and there always is some problem because this or that feature clashes with how they wish to play... or their gamestyle totally ruins the features.
But it is the game's fault, if it's designed so that metagamers are the most successful players, than it simply makes metagaming the proper way to play it - it's game theory 101. If, as you say, the game made you win the next TC fight by clicking on a specific rock in Junktown mine 6000000500004 times, than clicking on a specific rock in Junktown mine 6000000500004 times would be the proper way to win at it which in turn would make it a pretty terrible game.
Do we really disagree? Metagaming is always the best way to play and win, otherwise there would not be any metagaming going on. I don't think the "click the same rock 6000000500004 times" is that much of an exaggeration, because, as said, you can see metagamers complaining often. This makes FOnline a pretty terrible game to play that way.
Well, as I've said, the problem is 2238 can't be "Fallouty" without going through a total redesign making using great swarms or proxy armies full of powerful items a non-viable way of playing it. It's just a mmo strategy game with Fallout coating.
Yet people get tired of swarms (both sides of the fight even though some wouldn't believe this), and both swarms and proxies makes your enemy rage (fuck SOT this, fuck SOT that). How much fun can you really get from a game (or should I say, a competitive part of a game) where your enemy rages and with a reason? Sounds a bit childish to me.
Exactly. And there isn't many possibilities, because the game punishes you for RPing (you die a lot) and encourages meta- and power- gaming by design. It's just made that way, it's not the fault of the playerbase. If the devs didn't want it ending up like that, than they messed something up because that's exactly the way it is.
The game will always have flaws and metagaming will always be possible. Of course this games gives you quite some tools to play like that but as said, metagamers whine, and RPers whine because of metagamers. The game gives you the tools to troll other people or be ridiculously efficient to the point of boredom, but it doesn't really "force" you to play like that. I think it's like having a "have fun and maybe sometimes win" buttom and a "win often, but get bored" buttom, and people keep choosing the second option.
It becomes a military operation the moment you decide to secure a TC town. The thing is roleplaying a town major and a biologist and carrying assault rifles isn't the way to secure a TC town, so the fall of this project was only natural. Again - blame the design, not the players.
Rather than that, people wanted to RP, but other people, PvPers, didn't want to sacrifice a town even though the project gave them an alternative way of playing by adding player-made content, so they destroyed it. And then some PvPers say "but I play like this because there's not much content!".
It means that features like parley get implemented and the endgame economy keeps suffering because of those survivalist delusions. Nobody with a bunch of 24 lvl chars is trying to survive, they're fighting for control of the towns because the game is set up that way - on the other hand, the economic part of the game which is supposed to facilitate this fighting seems to be geared more for this virtually nonexistent RPG aspect. It's just bad and it's a screaming shame the devs can't decide whether to go for the pure RPG or pure strategy/teamplay genre. I'd be happy either way but them trying to do both at once is just horribad.
Are you saying that features that go against PvP/strategy gameplay and are instead "geared more for this virtually nonexistent RPG aspect" are implemented, while at the same time saying game mechanics support metagaming/PvP/strategy and punishes RP? Or did I misunderstand?
And yes, choosing a specific "genre" would make everything easier, but if this playerbase didn't have such a desire for pixelated glory and wealth, it'd go smoothly, I believe.
Once again - the game gives you feedback when you do something "good" (you gain stuff) and when you do something "bad" (you die and lose stuff). The vast majority of people wants to "win", and if "winning" means metagaming and PKing and whatnot, than metagaming and PKing it is. It really is that simple.
Yet, people complain, get bored, leave...
That's another problem - those quests are so weak in terms of rewards out of fear of causing imbalance in the endgame that they're mostly worthless for players who want to use them to learn the game and they basically give you no knowledge of how to play the game to "win". They're just hanging there, mostly neglected, without any real connection with other gameplay mechanics. About the only quest that is somewhat good is the Metzger suitcase one, because it gives you a nice XP reward and it teaches you to move around unprotected towns without your teammates without getting your ass blown off. The problem is you can only try it once, which in turn makes most new players fail it which is bad because they have the most to gain in trying to do it multiple times (they die = they learn and have to try a different approach). See what I'm getting at?
It's no surprised that quest are flawed when devs have to pay attention to a swarm of PvPers complaining about PvP stuff. This makes devs pay less attention to quests and similar stuff, which makes PvPers and players in general pay less attention to the existing quests and similar stuff. Vicious circle in which devs are not *the* guys to blame, imo.
Well, those people treat it as a competitive game and they want to win and to have a fair, entertaining contest. In winning such contest they find fun and entertainment - and they complain about lack of balance or some stuff being a chore, because it ultimately makes them enjoy it less. They're complaining about specifics (ie. "this car should have a more powerful engine"), while you're complaining about the general design (ie. "I don't want a car, I want a goddamn horse").
Except I don't complain about general design, because as said I never feel the game itself is not for me. You could say I don't like the general design of other servers such as Requiem (where you can open three windows or some shit like that) or Battleground (were you truly shouldn't exepct RP), but it's not the case in 2238.
