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[Lordus]

JovB:

 Thats exactly i am talking about (does not matter that i had not enough hardware to run "radio bot" and other 2 chars, so i wanted only that my broadcaster could be located in NCR). The supporting of roleplay = Crash the limits and do more for them. Sacrifice "equal chance" for the idea of roleplay. Thanks you demostrate here the limit i encoutered.

 Hunting your non GM char for GM decision.: That was because of downgrading of Name Colourizing policy. You wanted that every player have to meet other players, interact and decide what kind of relationship with others player would establish. I did that. I can guarantee you, that with old Name Colourizing it would be different. It would be different, because i would put your name into kill on sight list and all team would hunt you!  [very devil emoticon]

 Wichura:

 I am so poor, that i had to travel by train from our base near Vault City, to TC in Broken Hills. So 200 caps for each robe means one TC that i will miss.

 The reason i was not playing 2238 for many months was because i killed many times Vedaras, the Vault City citizen, and i had to wait until my karma raise again, to level that will grant me safe enter of Vault City train station.

 Eter:
 I decided to change my opinion. You are right, there is no need to more support from devs or GMs to roleplay.
 
 Manero:

 Dont worry, this is only warm up round, i am training for post wipe trolling.

[JovankaB]

Hunting your non GM char for GM decision.: That was because of downgrading of Name Colourizing policy. You wanted that every player have to meet other players, interact and decide what kind of relationship with others player would establish. I did that. I can guarantee you, that with old Name Colourizing it would be different. It would be different, because i would put your name into kill on sight list and all team would hunt you!

You don't have a good opinion about your team mates if you think they would follow you pathetic motives mindlessly, just because of color name.
I had a different experience with them, while you were acting like a raging ape they were healing me. After all they knew who we are, right?

You are not doing any great favor to others that you try roleplaying. Find a way to do it without cheating.
Noone stopped you to roleplay in NCR, then relog and fight or mine moar ore, like anyone else.
Sounds more like an excuse of compulsive dual logger who must do many things at the same time.

[Lordus]

 Jovanka B, you are solid gold, seriously. After you proved my thesis, that players trying roleplay often encountered game mechanics limits or rules (even they are not ruining other players experience), you are proving here another my thesis.

 Thesis, that old Name Colourizing is not devil machine that prohibits players to think before shooting, but it is usefull ability that helps players in different ways.

 Thank you.

[JovankaB]

Thesis, that old Name Colourizing is not devil machine that prohibits players to think before shooting, but it is usefull ability that helps players in different ways.

No, I was talking specifically about that case - VSB gang and me colorized as enemy. In that case some of them would probably think before shooting. In most other cases (majority of other gangs or unknown victims) it would be shooting without thinking.

I'm still for colorizing, for other reasons. But it's not thread about colorizing and name colorizing has nothing to do with rp, so stop offtopic please.

[Kelin]

The reason i was not playing 2238 for many months was because i killed many times Vedaras, the Vault City citizen, and i had to wait until my karma raise again, to level that will grant me safe enter of Vault City train station.

Little off-topic but this happened to me many times and I also think this mechanics is pretty retarded. One PvP event with Vedaras and my karma decreased from 0 to -3000...

One shot is -500 karma at VC. Do you really think it's the way how it should work? I don't think so 

[Grommok]

So in general, i thinkg Grommok, that you should be more respectfull to players, that tried different roleplays (like me), but their experience is that they encountered the limits of game, game mechanism, client, economy ... they tried to negotiate some conditions with devs or GM, but the result was refusal of propositions.

I didnt mean to be unrespectful (hope is the right word), and i'm sorry if i offended you, your sensibility, your intellingence or anything else from you. I didnt mean to. Sorry mon.

Now, back to topic.

Hunting your non GM char for GM decision.: That was because of downgrading of Name Colourizing policy. You wanted that every player have to meet other players, interact and decide what kind of relationship with others player would establish. I did that. I can guarantee you, that with old Name Colourizing it would be different. It would be different, because i would put your name into kill on sight list and all team would hunt you!  [very devil emoticon]

I'm not too sure (i wasnt there back at the NameColorizing days), but as far i've understood, it basically gave you the ability to change colour of someone name for you, and then transmit it to other members of your party/faction. Even if i admit is a good idea, i dont see what this has to do with roleplay, since seems more something to be used for PvP/bounty hunting. But, as i said, i wasnt there, so i might have missed something.

[Lordus]

Kelin, this will not solve, but at least it will warn you, if old NC would be again implemented. Now you have to ask every attacking PK, before striking back, if he is not member of major NPCs factions. Thats kind of roleplay!

Grommok:

 "NC: Even if i admit is a good idea, i dont see what this has to do with roleplay.."

 This could work as a general support for any type of roleplay. I.e. it could help you to identify Redding city citizens, from other wastelanders, but also basic citizens from their sheriff, from their leaders (very same in Broken Hills city roleplay). Second era, when i tried to establish church, the specific colour for members of church, even they are not in same faction (that was the point of church roleplay, at least little respect in city churches among even enemy PvP players). Trader roleplay.. the same.

 So i think that NC is requirement for good roleplay.

[DocAN.]

Nothing changed since 1st beta - no good roleplay on 2238.

[Surf]

So i think that NC is requirement for good roleplay.

A good and imaginative Playergroup + a skilled GM are requirements for good roleplay. Elaborate settings and rocksolid systems (d20, GURPS etc) are requirements for good roleplay. A proper place to do that without interruptions from outside are requirements for good roleplay.

NC is non of these. Infact, it's even the opposite, it trivializes roles a player can choose and thus renders all actions and effort a roleplayer tries to bring into the game moot. It's ridicolous. It works very well in PvP and other Skirmishes but has nothing to do with roleplaying.

But you may go on with your posts, they were all entertaining to read this evening. I'm also looking forward for your next "quit" of the game, so you can come back again and lecture us all how we are all wrong in posts with a-many of words but no actual premise.

[Crazy]

A good and imaginative Playergroup + a skilled GM are requirements for good roleplay.

The GM is not always needed, I had good roleplay without them.

A proper place to do that without interruptions from outside are requirements for good roleplay.

I made almost all my RP in unsafe places... It allow more RP: you can waste people not doing RP or that would deserve death from you RP.

NC is non of these. In fact, it's even the opposite, it trivializes roles a player can choose and thus renders all actions and effort a roleplayer tries to bring into the game moot. It's ridiculous. It works very well in PvP and other Skirmishes but has nothing to do with roleplaying.

You couldn't be more wrong. All RP between faction is helped by NC. Raiders never face consequences of their actions, except when NC is there. I was shooting almost nobody who didn't deserved it before removal of NC. Now I kill probably many innocents because I have no way to be sure it is not known enemy. I have better to do than remember hundreds of names and tag/untag each time a team become ally/enemy. All diplomacy between factions (which is a big part of RP between factions) is deleted by deletion of NC.

Also, the confusion between a player and character is even greater without NC....

[Surf]

So tell me, how can a character I freshly created, (just woken up from sand storm and whatnot is a startup scenario for new characters) instantly "know" the bad and the good people? Ah yes, it is because the player controlling him/her has stored all these datas in a nice and nifty file. This essentially means, that we don't play our characters, but we are the actual players in there, which is incredibly lame and goes completely against anything even remotively having to do with playing a role in a game. Every character you roll is a new one, he doesn't know who the bad or the good guys are. Instantly having the knowledge through some inane game mechanic is pretty much the definition of metagaming. I really understand its usefulness for PVP fights and whatnot, since it can sometimes be confusing. I also get that players want to categorize their enemies/friends a bit more. I get that, and would even support that. But it pretty much destroys the purpose of Roleplaying, when via some uncanny effect all the characters share the same background - the player.

I think, why we have this long discussion here is simply because "Roleplaying" is a term which can't be 100% described, everyone has a different definition of it. For me, it comes more from a PnP background, traditional sessions with a dedicated GM to a dedicated playergroup doing campaigns. For other people, roleplaying is already if they say suddenly decide to try to talk a bit incharacter. This is nice and all, but if you want to roleplay, you don't suddenly switch back and forward, you do it all the time. You don't need to announce any projects or anything, you just do it. And I would not call that roleplaying, it is simply staying in the boundaries of the world you are playing in and avoiding out of character talk.

Also, the confusion between a player and character is even greater without NC....

This is exactly the purpose. The player is supposed to only control a character, not be a character himself.

[Crazy]

So tell me, how can a character I freshly created, (just woken up from sand storm and whatnot is a startup scenario for new characters) instantly "know" the bad and the good people?

Bad and good don't mean anything. Freshly created don't mean anything in RP too, as you begin at min age of 16. Why you know enemy of this faction? Because they share it widely, through poster, radio, whatever (it's pretty much the RP explanation when you share it on forum, as you can't do it IG at all/easily/in a proper way. GP>RP, as always). And it's up to the char and it's Rp to believe them (and use their NC) or not.

Ah yes, it is because the player controlling him/her has stored all these datas in a nice and nifty file. This essentially means, that we don't play our characters, but we are the actual players in there, which is incredibly lame and goes completely against anything even remotively having to do with playing a role in a game.

Nothing prevent you to use different NC with different chars... Also a color don't mean anything by itself. For me, as all teams have a color, I can either shoot them or let them alone, depending of diplomacy, character, humor. It is obvious that someone in wasteland fighting with a gang will be known as member of this gang. What you do with this gang is your business, and it's player choice to follow their character and act RP or not with information that everyone could known.

Every character you roll is a new one, he doesn't know who the bad or the good guys are.

Sure. Doesn't mean he doesn't know that gang X shot Y member of gang Y if they spread it.

Instantly having the knowledge through some inane game mechanic is pretty much the definition of metagaming.

Metagaming have so much possibility without this, this feature doesn't add much metagaming (there is even much RP explanations) while it add much RP....

I really understand its usefulness for PVP fights and whatnot, since it can sometimes be confusing. I also get that players want to categorize their enemies/friends a bit more. I get that, and would even support that. But it pretty much destroys the purpose of Roleplaying, when via some uncanny effect all the characters share the same background - the player.

Which is false. A Cryo and Cryolead (to take a real example) don't have same affiliation thanks to NC, and won't be shot by same guys. While without NC, both will be shot by everyone because they recognize him and won't bother to think "Oh cryo is gang X while Cryolead is gang Y" if ythat's not displayed on their screen.

I think, why we have this long discussion here is simply because "Roleplaying" is a term which can't be 100% described, everyone has a different definition of it. For me, it comes more from a PnP background, traditional sessions with a dedicated GM to a dedicated playergroup doing campaigns.

Sure, but you can try to understand what it means to others people, and understand in what a feature is useful for their RP while it "literally totally destroy entirely" your RP (some irony there).

For other people, roleplaying is already if they say suddenly decide to try to talk a bit incharacter. This is nice and all, but if you want to roleplay, you don't suddenly switch back and forward, you do it all the time. You don't need to announce any projects or anything, you just do it. And I would not call that roleplaying, it is simply staying in the boundaries of the world you are playing in and avoiding out of character talk.

If you talk out of character once, you can't Rp forever! Yes, irony again, but that's kinda what you're saying...

This is exactly the purpose. The player is supposed to only control a character, not be a character himself.

Which NC is actually helping...




Previous post is bug, you can delete it ;p

[Gorlak]

No possibility of roleplay in 2238? PLEASE!
This is just due to people unwilling to make an effort, as it is easier to just shoot and talk nonstop meme bullshit at others than it is to actually create a 'CHARACTER' in this RPG ( search the definition ) and play that character as best they can.

Roleplaying is not absent from 2238, is just unfortunate that those who are willing to actually make game interesting and colorful by doing this , are few and far between.

[Eternauta]

Hardcore roleplaying is too close to impossible in 2238. By "hardcore roleplaying" I mean what Surf described. Just a little drop of metagaming and it might all be ruined.

However it is very possible to do what we could call "semi-roleplay" or "pseudo-roleplay", inside which we can include from meeting a random guy in a location and "speak nicely", to thinking a little background for your character(s) or also trying "translate" what is happening around to something that makes a least a bit of sense in the game setting.

I think there is really nothing against this semi-roleplay, which won't be as complex as the real thing, but can nonetheless be very enjoyable.

What's more, if big gangs decided to make a little effort and develop a semi-roleplay (making some sense in the context of the Fallout world) explanation for everything they do or try to do to destroy their enemies, I bet we would log in to the forum every day and find not so many rage/spam/troll/flame posts, but instead of that a kind of competition to see who came up with the most clever semi-rp idea

[z0m2h14]

There is no such thing as semi-roleplay is possible.
Devs made possible to join factions and what we see: players join brotherhood to steal ammo on their encounters.
They made "safe" town - NCR and what we see - annoyng thiefs, suicide bombers.

Give people some exploitable idea and without control there will be someone who will ruin it.

I already told about pure RP server, so there were times, when some guys just spoil game for others. Couple of annoyng players got killed becouse they didnt follow rp rules (some ofcharacter talk) and come in game again and again shouting "This servers is shit", "roleplay is a lie", "you all liars". For that moments we had to close srevers to newregistred players for day or two, and you talk about semi-roleplay, oh I doubt that.