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[manero]

You could make separate unreachable location and place there volunteers but there should be GM or group of people that could transport there.

There was something like that on 2238 but i dont know whats happened with that project. It was something about V13.

[Grommok]

Ah, V13 by Izual? I've readed something on the wiki, and i think that i'll probably join.

[Lordus]

My opinion about roleplay in 2238. I roleplayed too in ways different than PvP, anti PK. I tried to establish radiomadbrahmin, and then i tried to create something like church.

 Problems i saw:

 1) Roleplay is mostly incompatible with "game rules".

 I.e. my radiomadbrahmin needed 2 logged chars at same time. One was broadcaster with scripts (=> this char was stationary and was unable to move if he broadcast), second logged char had several functions: nonstop checking of radio broadcasting correctness, reporter, free radio donater, ... . If i want to broadcast actual informations, i needed to be in the centres of any events. So basicly: stationary char was located in NCR (where traders tried to sell their stuff, newbies tried to find friends, ... ) and second char was traveling across wasteland = mining, crafting, PvP. So i got two sources that i could use.

 But i was prisoned because of dual logging. Funy, because PvPs enemy used proxies in pvp, and i was using (and declaring it to GMs) only for purpose of this roleplay.

 So even GM could ruin by their actions roleplay.

 2) GM and devs are apathetic to RP that is different than their own ideas.
 
 I tried to get robe skins to my church char and chars of members of our church (because non killing policy leaded to situation, that everyone killed us and loot our robe). The answer was: "find your own robes, and give it to members of your church, we dont care, and it would be unfair to basic players". So in fact, this was total misunderstood of what church RP was (it was not one faction, we gathered players from even enemy factions), but it was unsuccesfull because of this reason. Result = players empty churches (and cities) across the whole wasteland cities.

 So "fairness policy" resulted into ghost towns. (non only in my case). So in general .. i suggested little "socialism", targeted support of roleplay, but "pure kapitalism" won, (pure equal chances for everyone). Although in my RL i am more conservative that liberal (in east countries language, i am more right wing orientated), this could not work in game universe, if you can not create your own locations, places, items, quests, ... .

 I agree that devs will implement new quests, but this will sufficient only for first few days, weeks after wipe, than everybody would know this.

 Look at Requiem (fonline mod). I dont have enough time to test it for many hours, but my first experience in unguarded town (almost every generaly accesible location is unguarded there) was that:

 a) there were players welcoming me. I found that they had faction base under that city (= created for them, by GM they give them monopol to use it). I found that this is not only one case, but many factions have this.

 b) in that location, there was a dog char played by man. When he saw me, he run to me, then he bites me 3x times, but he did not killed me. First i was confused, then i was text barking on him, finaly, i found a meat and gived it to him, and after that time, he always greeted me (because there is NAME COLOURIZING and the player was able to recognize me!!!). = ROLEPLAY
 
 c) in Requiem, there is enclave, player driven faction. They have to gather, craft.. like everybody else, but they have special base and rank before their names. Their roleplay is based on kill everyone, but their priority is to defend F2 enclave locations. In one team quest, when you can send for stuff and then PvE (Cathedral repetable quest), you can call npcs of enclave and then kill them. This player driven faction is focusing on preventing this, (prevent to kill enclave NPCs) = roleplay.


 So in general, there are other servers (with more players), with less rules (FOCD, free alting), with positive aproach from devs and GMs, where RP in some way works and game is more fun.

x

 In 2238, there is forum "battle" about removing or bringign back old NAME COLOURIZING.. HOW PATHETHIC!!!

 Reasons of clinical death of RP:

 1) Devs dont have enough time
 2) Good RP requires also team work. But devs gathered all GM usually from "solo" players, that dont have enough experience with needs (roleplay needs,...) of faction players.
 3) Devs dont play 2238, so they are divorced from game reality and their decision-making is dependent on players, who are mostly conformal to them (GMs, solo players), instead of players, who wants to evolve some game mechanism and have experience with that.
 

[Grommok]

So "fairness policy" resulted into ghost towns. (non only in my case). So in general .. i suggested little "socialism", targeted support of roleplay, but "pure kapitalism" won, (pure equal chances for everyone).

[ironic] Welcome to Earth! [/ironic]
Apart from that, technically i agree about something.
The thing i dont agree with is that "Devs dont play, Devs away from game AKA Devs dont care". Technically, just the fact of MAKING FOnline:2238 and givin' away all the time without even be payed means that they care. I respect their work, and so we all should do. I agree that sometimes their are a little... a little, that's all. They must try to keep the game good for all, without discouranging anyone to play. Only because "they didnt donate robes to church" they are satanic devils? [ironic]You really need an hobby mon! [/ironic]. Robes could be bought with the money obtained thru free donations.

[Lordus]

Grommok, i think that you dont understand written text.

 I apreciate the work of devs. But their vision was to make game with equal opportunities for all. That means, that anyone, who wants to contribute more than the game and system (and his current in game possibility) allows him, has not a chance.

 It is because of idea. Idea that could work, if game allows you order of magnitude more opportunities (Google translate sentence ) and when server is playing thousands of players.

 But this is not the case. I said example : Name Colourizing as a feauture that could help role play in different ways (coulour players that joined any of your RP). But it was denyed from reasons of idea that is out of game reality. (no PKs because of killing people that somebody else coloured).

 As a result, there is one less options, how to support a roleplay, but PKs still killing everyone on sight!

 So in general, i thinkg Grommok, that you should be more respectfull to players, that tried different roleplays (like me), but their experience is that they encountered the limits of game, game mechanism, client, economy ... they tried to negotiate some conditions with devs or GM, but the result was refusal of propositions.

 This have nothing common with fact that they created and they are maintaining this server.

[Eternauta]

1) Roleplay is mostly incompatible with "game rules".

 I.e. my radiomadbrahmin needed 2 logged chars at same time. One was broadcaster with scripts (=> this char was stationary and was unable to move if he broadcast), second logged char had several functions: nonstop checking of radio broadcasting correctness, reporter, free radio donater, ... . If i want to broadcast actual informations, i needed to be in the centres of any events. So basicly: stationary char was located in NCR (where traders tried to sell their stuff, newbies tried to find friends, ... ) and second char was traveling across wasteland = mining, crafting, PvP. So i got two sources that i could use.

 But i was prisoned because of dual logging. Funy, because PvPs enemy used proxies in pvp, and i was using (and declaring it to GMs) only for purpose of this roleplay.

 So even GM could ruin by their actions roleplay.

"I needed two logged chars at the same time",  Are you "forever alone" or what? You're always saying "VSB this, VSB that", ask a friend for help instead of breaking a rule.

2) GM and devs are apathetic to RP that is different than their own ideas.
 
 I tried to get robe skins to my church char and chars of members of our church (because non killing policy leaded to situation, that everyone killed us and loot our robe). The answer was: "find your own robes, and give it to members of your church, we dont care, and it would be unfair to basic players". So in fact, this was total misunderstood of what church RP was (it was not one faction, we gathered players from even enemy factions), but it was unsuccesfull because of this reason. Result = players empty churches (and cities) across the whole wasteland cities.

I would first read the PMs or whatever you typed to ask devs for help. Something tells me you don't have much Speech skill.

So "fairness policy" resulted into ghost towns. (non only in my case). So in general .. i suggested little "socialism", targeted support of roleplay, but "pure kapitalism" won, (pure equal chances for everyone). Although in my RL i am more conservative that liberal (in east countries language, i am more right wing orientated), this could not work in game universe, if you can not create your own locations, places, items, quests, ... .

Hell yeah, real world economics/politics is DA way to talk about FOnline.

I agree that devs will implement new quests, but this will sufficient only for first few days, weeks after wipe, than everybody would know this.

Because, what would happen then? "CANT SPEEK WITH THIS NPC WITH MA PVP CHAR THIS GAME SUX" - Don't complain about no RP and don't complain about devs then.

Look at Requiem (fonline mod). I dont have enough time to test it for many hours, but my first experience in unguarded town (almost every generaly accesible location is unguarded there) was that:

More of your good old "2238 sux, Requiem's da shit"? Just leave 2238 once for all if the other sever is so awesome.

a) there were players welcoming me. I found that they had faction base under that city (= created for them, by GM they give them monopol to use it). I found that this is not only one case, but many factions have this.

Obviously the best way to boost RP is to give factions something so they feel proud of their virtual penis... And I remember that Requiem feature: it inspired you for a suggestion which was basically "I've been playing this game for two years I WANT EPIC BASE NAO".

b) in that location, there was a dog char played by man. When he saw me, he run to me, then he bites me 3x times, but he did not killed me. First i was confused, then i was text barking on him, finaly, i found a meat and gived it to him, and after that time, he always greeted me (because there is NAME COLOURIZING and the player was able to recognize me!!!). = ROLEPLAY

Funny enough, I saw a PC dog in NCR (in 2238) the other night, and it came to smell me, etc. Also Lordus, since you've "tried RP" so much, you should know that it's not the player who has to recognize you, but the character, and Name Colourizing goes against that.
 

c) in Requiem, there is enclave, player driven faction. They have to gather, craft.. like everybody else, but they have special base and rank before their names. Their roleplay is based on kill everyone, but their priority is to defend F2 enclave locations. In one team quest, when you can send for stuff and then PvE (Cathedral repetable quest), you can call npcs of enclave and then kill them. This player driven faction is focusing on preventing this, (prevent to kill enclave NPCs) = roleplay.

MOAR "2238 sux Requiem is awesum!!1!!" - And I loved this part: "Their roleplay is based on kill everyone"

Reasons of clinical death of RP:

 1) Devs dont have enough time

If you understand that, don't whine because "they don't play the game", etc.

2) Good RP requires also team work. But devs gathered all GM usually from "solo" players, that dont have enough experience with needs (roleplay needs,...) of faction players.

Excuse me pal, but "lol I'll make shared BA crafter" and "spawn in 3, 2, 1..." are not the only forms of team work.

3) Devs dont play 2238, so they are divorced from game reality and their decision-making is dependent on players, who are mostly conformal to them (GMs, solo players), instead of players, who wants to evolve some game mechanism and have experience with that.
 

You just said they have no time. Also, way to go accusing devs of "RP fascism".

So please Lordus instead of doing you "ragequitting and coming back to whine on forum" cycle, just leave 2238 already if you hate it so much, and stay in your beloved Requiem.

[Crazy]

"I needed two logged chars at the same time",  Are you "forever alone" or what? You're always saying "VSB this, VSB that", ask a friend for help instead of breaking a rule.

Yeah, what a great idea. Staying on one character typing always the same info (or using script, but still not able to do anything else). So fun, everyone would want to do that to inform the wasteland.

I would first read the PMs or whatever you typed to ask devs for help. Something tells me you don't have much Speech skill.

Not dev business, rather GMs I think. And as long you're polite, explain what you're doing, and willing to improve game experience for everyone... I don't think he said "motherfucker I dual log don't ban me idiots".

Because, what would happen then? "CANT SPEEK WITH THIS NPC WITH MA PVP CHAR THIS GAME SUX" - Don't complain about no RP and don't complain about devs then.

You missed the point, it's about doing ten times the same quests is no fun when against NPCs, because it's always the same experience. And PvP char actually can talk with NPCs using mentats, and all "PvP apes" have proficiency of those.

More of your good old "2238 sux, Requiem's da shit"? Just leave 2238 once for all if the other sever is so awesome.

Honestly, if you could run in combat, maybe I would do it. But 2238 have far greater potential, unexploited. That's why we want to improve it, basing on good things from other servers.

Obviously the best way to boost RP is to give factions something so they feel proud of their virtual penis... And I remember that Requiem feature: it inspired you for a suggestion which was basically "I've been playing this game for two years I WANT EPIC BASE NAO".

Mmmh, yes, giving reward for RP is actually a good way to create more RP, especially if these rewards allow more RP by themselves.

Funny enough, I saw a PC dog in NCR (in 2238) the other night, and it came to smell me, etc. Also Lordus, since you've "tried RP" so much, you should know that it's not the player who has to recognize you, but the character, and Name Colourizing goes against that.

Yeah, sometimes you can get skins on 2238. But not often enough (though it become better these days).

Excuse me pal, but "lol I'll make shared BA crafter" and "spawn in 3, 2, 1..." are not the only forms of team work.

It's exactly what he is saying...

So please Lordus instead of doing you "ragequitting and coming back to whine on forum" cycle, just leave 2238 already if you hate it so much, and stay in your beloved Requiem.

I am on 2238 since quite a long time, and never really quit. I love it. Doesn't mean I don't want to see it improved, and Lordus have quite good points there.

[Eternauta]

Crazy, you are a dedicated PvP'er but I'm not sure the term "PvP ape" would fit you completely. But Lordus is a different case: just read his posts, his vision of the game is only about factions shooting each other. If you don't belong to one of those great PvP factions, he thinks your opinions are not important, etc.

And no, I don't think he meant the same about team work: he said solo players don't know about it while faction members do. And team work in factions is about making the best PvP build, getting moar gear for TC, etc... Factions do have team work but theirs is not the only kind that exists. It seems that Lordus thinks five pros in BA's and LSW are doing team work, but five newbies, who barely know each other but are hunting brahmins together, are not.

[Lordus]

Eternauta, you are troll, arent you? It is only question, not statement!

1) Two logged char i need was because on one char, there was non stop running "writing script" with prewrited text, that was sended via raidio in his hand to some specific channel (2238, after that to 0). That means, that that char was unable to do anything else, because if i would do anything else (move by one hex or even move mouse cursor), it would not input the text into the Fonline 2238 client text line with .h function and broadcast would be ruined.

 I did not needed any plugin, update, feature from developers, i created always by myself (even rewriting text of famous songs, wasteland news, infos for newbies, ...), later, Cpt. rookie help me with creating new "text script program", but still the requisition were the same.

 So in fact, it took me a lot of time and only, ONLY one thing i needed was to not kick out my broadcasting char, while i was normaly playing with different one (like everyone does).

2) Trolling again, arent you?
3) Well, i have to tell you secret, but dont be shocked. Every PvP player has its own alts. Trader, crafter and other. And guess what! They have charisma and they do quests! And guess what! Cities are still empty. And guess what! No, rather dont...

4) Comparsion if two similars products is something bad in Argentina?
5) NC is cause of ghost towns. Even 1 year after NC removing. BIIIIIIG Monster Name Colourizing IS!
6) Team work? What about TTTLA and their Redding project? Elections, divisions of power (sheriff, leader, ...) rules. Is this 321 spawn for you?
7) 321 spawn is the reason why most of current fonline players still plays. Maybe you dont recognize it, Eter, but you are minority at this moment on 2238. You are like dinosaurs, near to extinction.
I only rage quit 2238, if i had to rage "love" my girlfriend! Try it, its tasty!

[Eternauta]

No, I am not really a troll, I just find it funny that you keep posting on these forums if you think the game is so boring. Especially when you have other options, like Requiem which you like a lot.

Your radio thing demanded you to do all that? your problem, next time try doing something which doesn't "demand" cheating. Like WWP project for example: yes of course it was the product of great team work, not only from TTTLA but from all the factions which participated in there. If you read my posts you'd understand I do know factions have to rely on team work (to a certain limit, since every single member can have his own crafting alts, etc.) but my point is that not only big PvP factions are capable of adding to a RP project. Especially if those factions are only interested in battle - in that case we can expect them to act against RP, and we have seen this. But it seems you do hate "loners" because you are telling them not to post in your thread about PvP, etc...

About cities being empty even though players have alts and all that - like I said before, it's the players' problem if they are only willing to fight with a build that is useless for anything else.

I don't understand what you meant in that part where you mention my country. But it most probably doesn't add anything to this discussion.

As said, Name Colourizing is a metagaming tool and because of that it goes against roleplaying.

So, I am in a minority, so it automatically means my thoughts are not important. Interesting way of seeing things. Especially when I'm not the one posting about how boring the game is, how cooler Requiem is, etc.

[Lordus]

 Well sometimes it looks like you are normal guy Eter, sometimes it looks like you write like o troll. So i hope your troll will go sleep and we can talk normaly.

 As Crazy said, i like Fonline and i think that 2238 has bigger potential. So in fact, i like PvP, and although i quit, i sometimes "bring weapons, armors, drugs.. to enemy and then i die" (= i am pvp ape). But you underestimate me, when you think that this was the only reason why i played this game. I met many players doing their own kind of roleplay and it ends because "they encountered any game mechanics limits."

 I.e. player merchants.. their aim was to collect caps. A lot of caps. So they explored the game (not exploited) and founded the easiest way how to get different kind of stuff. They discovered how to safe mine, how to thief npcs, .. yes, for someone it was on the edge of exploring/exploiting, but their behaviour never ruined the game economy like "caps generating bugs in mercs" and similar. So they stayed in NCR, where there were many players, but also other similar traders and sold the stuff to other players.

 But then suicide bombers ruined their places, also interesting rate in banks removed the motivation for doing something and they disapeared. They tried to ask gm or dev to stop bombing in NCR, to remove interest rate.. but they failed. Result .. look at NCR, if there are any player driven roleplay traders?

 So my point in first suggestion is: if server wants to be alive even few weeks after post wipe exploration of every news, there exist one proven path = support roleplayers.

 And because practical reasons (players quits, faction stays), supporting of team roleplay is much more effective than solo roleplay. (With some exceptions).

 NC .. i think that NC ability to tag and eliminate solo players from the game is very demonized. "Anti PK" factions will always talk with newbies first, and even they will kill some "bluesuit" during TC, that does not mean that he would be automaticaly couloued by "dont ask, shoot" colour. It is hard to manage own players, harded to recognize others from enemy faction scouts, looters, suicide bombers, thiefs. NC granted at least minimal recognition possibility of solo players, friendly or neutral players, so "ANTI PK" faction members did not killed every unknown players preventively during TC, because of fear of unknown player will loot their 8 real life hours searched gauss pistol with ammo..  "PK factions" kill everyone without asking, they dont care.

 Also, i dont understand, why i have to experience the same like my teamate: death from suicide bomber in NCR, or be robbed from same sneak thief in NCR or somewhere else, if i can prevent it by NC.

 Empty cities.. again, i have trader alt. With enough charisma, trading, outdoorsman skill. But what to do in empty citeis without players?

 I dont tell you, that your thoughts are not important, but you dont know at least minimum about suggestion i posted. You expect different behave of gangs and gang players than reality is. It is the gap between solo and gang players. I think that most of players that could find friends or can join existing factions will sooner or later played team PvP. Or they will quit. The rest of solo players stays, and creates urban legends about pvp apes, their devastating role on gameplay, and they miss fact, that their are (faction members) the only who do any roleplay here that attracts other players (PK, anti PK, Redding city, Broken Hills city, traders).

[Wichura]

Lordus, part about robes worth 200 caps you are afraid of losing so much made me laugh a lot, thank you. It reminds me "Rogues-cannot-into-roleplay" whine thread, where some apes were crying they can't protect BH because lack of some gang name. Damned devs, always against great PvP gangs, core of playerbase and root of all matters, amen. They gonna regret that, no one just disrespects ape and lives!

[JovankaB]

1) Roleplay is mostly incompatible with "game rules".

 I.e. my radiomadbrahmin needed 2 logged chars at same time. One was broadcaster with scripts (=> this char was stationary and was unable to move if he broadcast), second logged char had several functions: nonstop checking of radio broadcasting correctness, reporter, free radio donater, ... . If i want to broadcast actual informations, i needed to be in the centres of any events. So basicly: stationary char was located in NCR (where traders tried to sell their stuff, newbies tried to find friends, ... ) and second char was traveling across wasteland = mining, crafting, PvP. So i got two sources that i could use.

 But i was prisoned because of dual logging. Funy, because PvPs enemy used proxies in pvp, and i was using (and declaring it to GMs) only for purpose of this roleplay.

 So even GM could ruin by their actions roleplay.

Stop being pathetic. You were allowed to keep dual log - 2 characters online - one bot to broadcast radio locked in jail and your normal character to play with it (whether it would be RP reporter or PvP ape didn't matter). So we already stretched rules to help you in your project. But you wanted THREE characters online - radio bot, "reporter" in NCR and some third guy to do killing at the same time.

And yea, hanging aroud is also playing. You have to choose, like ANYONE ELSE.
Why didn't you try to hire reporters if it was roleplay?

Also you were hunting my normal char for GM decisions, which truly shows how much roleplay was in your "roleplay".

[manero]

Lordus, part about robes worth 200 caps you are afraid of losing so much made me laugh a lot, thank you.

I think he was thinking about previous seasons(yes there were previous seasons before that one ) when robe was unique item.


ps. Lordus kill those bastards!

[Eternauta]

I dont tell you, that your thoughts are not important, but you dont know at least minimum about suggestion i posted. You expect different behave of gangs and gang players than reality is. It is the gap between solo and gang players. I think that most of players that could find friends or can join existing factions will sooner or later played team PvP. Or they will quit. The rest of solo players stays, and creates urban legends about pvp apes, their devastating role on gameplay, and they miss fact, that their are (faction members) the only who do any roleplay here that attracts other players (PK, anti PK, Redding city, Broken Hills city, traders).

However, I am a member of Crazy 88 which has become a major PvP and TC faction. So you can't say that every player who joins a gang will turn into a "PvP ape" (this is, a player only interested in fighting others). And you can't talk about a gap between you (PvP faction member) and me ("loner"). Also since I am in one, I'm very aware of how TC gangs behave, I see how activities are carried out, how victory is searched for, etc.

So please don't say I go around creating myths. And please, don't say (although I honestly think I might have been ambiguous on this) that I see factions as the bringers of doom. Like we both said, factions made a great job in WWP for example - and factions are also a good way of knowing people and making friends, which of course helps when you decide to start some RP activity. It's just the pure PvP and troll gangs which harm RP.

On a side note: don't you find interesting that even Manero said he liked the "no TC" idea? (in your thread about pvp minigame, not this one) - imho "no TC" would help everyone.