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[Aryan]

My suggestion is to remove most/all high tech looting from encounters and rework the crafting timeouts too suit.

The idea is caravans like san fran and broken hills are unlootable or drop only a small amount of ammo where raiders and other encounters carrying lower level loot (pistols, smg, mauser etc) are fully lootable.

This creates a situation where all high spec items like avengers, lsw, rocket, mini etc are still required to be crafted to exist in the game and continue to maintain a reasonable value proportional to the effort and specialization required to create. While on the other hand 10mm pistols, mausers and other low spec weapons will be easily obtained and of little value to established players.

The logic behind this suggestion is any new players entering the game will have access to equiptment suited to their experience easily due to the ease of aquireability and relative worthlessness to high level players of the items, as per basic economic laws of supply and demand, removeing the barriers to entry for new players. Avaliable also is the option of mining and crafting raw materials to trade for weapons/ammo not gifted by other players.

Intermediate players who wish to make caps can do so from a very early level (eg. bg1 can be obtained with a lvl3 charcter) crafting mid level non lootable items such as rocket launchers and ammo.  As a real world example rocket launchers regulary sell to other players for 3000+ caps. These are not isolated purchases and there are a number of established players who will buy almost all mid/high spec weaponary you can throw at them. Also its likley by this stage a player will be looking into buying a small base and at current player prices for items this is reasonable prospect to achive with a small group.

Advanced players from well established factions tend to be more pvp oreintated (not all but most) and while having faction crafters, are generaly willing to purchase weapons and ammo rather then craft(leveling aside). Hopefully, with the new town control system destined to be a major source of caps in the game the more powerful factions will fight a little harder to maintain control and hopefully feed those caps obtained back into the economoy rather then horde and craft. Some balance here will need to be worked on ot make it worth their while.

Whats required to achive this? Greater bot control, wound back crafting cooldowns and revised xp.

The economoy is currently artifically deflated due to bots (sign cooldowns are just way too large when even botters are complaing) and id say a good portion of all factions either have bots or access to botted resources. This isnt a personal attack on any particular faction this is just the reality of the situation and while this exists larger groups have much lowered incentive to trade for resources and weapons. Without the boting item prices would be much MUCH higher, where as now they are reasonably inline with their 'values' a good economic indicator cooldowns are too high.

This has been suggested before but limiting number of mines per resource encounter is key, preferably not a single mine but maybe 5 or so. This prevents milking a single encounter (as we see in cars atm) although care must be taken as this has the possible effect of artifically increasing the mining cooldown while searching for another encoutner.

Another method would be to make it impossible to land cars/caravans into a resource map (seems already implemented). The more randomisation in location and avaliability of resources the harder it is to code a bot to seek them, but no doubt you already know this. While higher end coders could probably work around this with time and more complex coding this at least cuts out a good portion of the people using basic autoclicker programmes.

Xp has a great influence on the economoy throught the critter xp nerf. People are more inclined to buy resources and craft their own guns because there aren't many stable sources of xp to lvl. Establish players become interested in purchasing guns but no where near as much as they would be if crafting wasent the major source of xp.

As for cooldowns theres no reason to go into that too much here, theres an entire thread related to cooldowns and reasons why they are too large but needless to say they need restructuring.

[Gorlak]

these some of the best damn suggestions i seen yet, son!

[Sailor]

oooohhh damnnn

[Spotty]

I would love to see these ideas implemented.

Great work Aryan.

[Reconite]

I agree with most of it, and that low value weaponry should be obtainable from encounters. Problem with the "get rid of bots" thing is that it is difficult to detect them and GMs/Admins don't have enough time to put into finding, testing and banning these bot users.

[baaelSiljan]

You can use bot protection system, with image streaming from server, player will have set in database what should he see. It will show in some random, but long enough time periods, but more often when player is repeating actions for longer than normal. Player have to write it in window. Image should have more than 10 options, 4 of them will be loaded randomly. There should be lot of images, and until player do not say it correctly, he will be locked.



It is the only way to prevent botting, as long as they dont use advanced SI. Protection dialog should be shown when player try to use workbench, gathering, crafting, exit to world map.


Ps. banning players, banning IP or similar - is wrong way, to provoke and test it, I runned 10 bots, only one was detected (DirtySeller - was standing in center of junktown and crafting brass knucklets for few hours). Everyone of them was set on different IP. Many people have dynamic IP, or know what is proxy. Banning IP may affect on other innocent players. Banning proxy may affect on players playing in work . Second thing is to make some encryption, and third thing is to make antiinjection packets (I heard about some of them to lock WPE or rPE).

[Resp]

ban by hdd info ?

[Aryan]

I agree with most of it, and that low value weaponry should be obtainable from encounters. Problem with the "get rid of bots" thing is that it is difficult to detect them and GMs/Admins don't have enough time to put into finding, testing and banning these bot users.

Thats very true and why rather then chase bots game mechanics need to be put in place to make it more difficult. Randomisation really presents alot of problem to a botter, as it's very hard to code for something you cant predict.

Baael, at least your honest and i have to agree that botters shouldnt be banned. As the devs and gms keep reminding us this is a TEST and without people doing this we would never come up with the required mechanics to prevent it.There are things i feel i cant report, nothing malacious but work arounds, because if i do this will results in my known charcters being jailed and being my machine banned. For certain jail the bots themselves but let it end there.

And i agree some randomised bytes in packets would help to prevent people filtering.

[baaelSiljan]

ban by hdd info ?

If player is using bot, he probably know all mechanics of botting, so I'm sure You cannot ban him, he will be back in 5 minutes with 2 new accounts - two bots more. Only way is to give task to bot it could not handle it. Like image recognition. This is much bigger problem than only player like bots. Much more people use packet filtering to fast targeting. With single fire, he can skip VATS and send packet to target your eyes. And many more...

[Delamore]

If player is using bot, he probably know all mechanics of botting, so I'm sure You cannot ban him, he will be back in 5 minutes with 2 new accounts - two bots more. Only way is to give task to bot it could not handle it. Like image recognition. This is much bigger problem than only player like bots. Much more people use packet filtering to fast targeting. With single fire, he can skip VATS and send packet to target your eyes. And many more...

Because image recognition is completely fool proof.