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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Leham Kash on September 27, 2010, 03:53:20 pm
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that's what the avenger become against a good plasma build or even small guns.
I have a suggestion to make it a real "BIGGUN":
You cannot run while having a minigun in your active hand (maybe for rocket lancher too)
You will have to increase avenger's minimum damage by 2 or 3.
and classical minigun by 1
And now minigunners will worst something and will have a real disavantage.
You can say that you only have to switch your active hand to be able to run, but it takes a little time wich makes all the thing.
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so, what exactly do you mean by this exactly, the duality of this post makes little sense...
From what I gather you're saying that miniguns are underpowered, and yet you want to nerf them even farther?
(Note: this isn't a flamepost, I just don't get the main post very well, and I get most things...)
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You will have to increase avenger's minimum damage by 2 or 3.
and classical minigun by 1
this is the improvement, don 't you think it s enough? ( avenger have 40 bullets burst)
I said that avenger does not enough damage now .
It's nerfing must be elsewhere (avoid running).
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it's just that, no running, uff, that's pretty much a huge nerf, cause the sniper can just run away, I think that it's just too unfair, and I play as a sniper...
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let's try
the avenger is just useless right now.
that's pretty much a huge nerf, cause the sniper can just run away
yup, in a long range fight, sniper must have the advantage.
but if you are at close range, a minigunner should take the advantage, even if he cannot run, that's what i call PvP balance.
but right now the minigun does enought damage, imo.
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but if you are at close range, a minigunner should take the advantage, even if he cannot run, that's what i call PvP balance.
No, in close range pistols, shotguns and melee should take the advantage. Machineguns should dominate the medium range defensive/support combat.
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false
a minigun shal take advantage agains pisotl shoitgun and melee.
because it's more expensive in bullets and overall crafting time.
plus, a minigun shall win against a power fist or fastshot pistol, these are support, not minigun.
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false
a minigun shal take advantage agains pisotl shoitgun and melee.
because it's more expensive in bullets and overall crafting time.
plus, a minigun shall win against a power fist or fastshot pistol, these are support, not minigun.
Then where's the balance you speak of? If minigun always dominates close range, where are pistols, shotguns and melee supposed to shine?
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in my humble opinon( i already said that i think melee and pistols are support):
melee kicks pistol/shotgun and snipers at HtH >>>>OK
sniper kicks all at long range, very powerfull at middle>>> OK
pistol/shot kicks snipers and melee at middlerange, very power full at close>>> OK
Plasma kicks all at middlerange , very powerfull at close>>> OK
Minigunn Kick all at close, very powerfull at middle>>> not the case
SG takes it at middle range now, and even a melee build can run to a minigun and cripple
today we have :
minigun very powerfull at close, useless at middle (because of plasma and SG)
I dont say that plasma and SG improvement were not good, i like it, but minigun have to be reworked in some way.
I think to avoid running and increase damages will put a new point in tactical aspect.
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So you're saying that the weapon that has the potential to do the most damage out of anything in Fonline is underpowered?
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that's what the avenger become against a good plasma build or even small guns.
I have a suggestion to make it a real "BIGGUN":
You cannot run while having a minigun in your active hand (maybe for rocket lancher too)
You will have to increase avenger's minimum damage by 2 or 3.
and classical minigun by 1
And now minigunners will worst something and will have a real disavantage.
You can say that you only have to switch your active hand to be able to run, but it takes a little time wich makes all the thing.
You must go play at FOnline: TLA. There all players can only walk in combat mode ;)
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sounds good for me, now big gunners would need sniper support from other sides, so that no one is gonna leave the place alive like a piece of cake....
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So you're saying that the weapon that has the potential to do the most damage out of anything in Fonline is underpowered?
wahou! where are you from man ? not 2238 for sure!
come with your avenger against my plasma rifle build and I will show you "the weapon that has the potential to do the most damage out of anything in Fonline"
still, SG kicks mingunners in almost every TC I did this session.
so yup, mingunn is underpowered imo
You must go play at FOnline: TLA. There all players can only walk in combat mode
I did, ::)
but that s not what i m talking about
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I think it would be a good idea to increase minigun damage, but to give minigun some drawback, like the scoped hunting rifle.
Like maybe 80% reduced hit chances if target distance is 3 hexes or lower.
In reality miniguns are not used by infantry, but lets think of the minigun as a heavy machine gun (which it is).
In close combat, at HtH range, the soldier with a bayonet on his assault rifle, or even the trained soldier with a club (e.g. were used in WW1 in trench warfare)
would beat the shit out of a machine gunner. You simply cannot aim that fast at low distance with a heavy machine gun.
Before you start argumenting, that it would be unfair to give the guy with low-cost equipment the advantage:
If someone comes close enough to attack you with melee weapons or HtT, while you use a minigun, than you made some serious mistakes, or you are simply out of ammo.
If you don´t agree with this, then ask yourself why all armys arround the world still use sniper rifles, bayonets, pistols and assault rifles and not simply equip all their soldiers with real (but normal) machine guns like the MG42. This one has 1500rpm, with only 10,6kg weight, while being relatively cheap and simple to build, as it is a german ww2 machine gun.
A real minigun does ~6000rpm, but weight is at least 16kg, without ammo. As you need alot of it, you are likely to have 30kg and more.
Try to lift something with that much weight and do fast, controlled movement with this, stopping at just the position you want to. No chance!
Thats a weopon for tripods, aircrafts and maybe supermutans and people in power armor.
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The initial supposition is false. Avengers still do more damage than a Plasma Rifle, as both theory and testing show. The only genuine point about Miniguns is that they are now too expensive to maintain - which will be fixed up at some point.
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plus, a minigun shall win against a power fist or fastshot pistol, these are support, not minigun.
Unless someone fights indoors with a power fist and beats your head in while you're opening doors or such.
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The initial supposition is false. Avengers still do more damage than a Plasma Rifle, as both theory and testing show. The only genuine point about Miniguns is that they are now too expensive to maintain - which will be fixed up at some point.
in great respect for your calculations and laboratory tests, this is not the case in much TC situations, plasma critics still beats.
And even if i m false with it, I think avenger still need better dmg, with another kind of malus elsewhere.
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I think it would be a good idea to increase minigun damage, but to give minigun some drawback, like the scoped hunting rifle.
Like maybe 80% reduced hit chances if target distance is 3 hexes or lower.
In reality miniguns are not used by infantry, but lets think of the minigun as a heavy machine gun (which it is).
In close combat, at HtH range, the soldier with a bayonet on his assault rifle, or even the trained soldier with a club (e.g. were used in WW1 in trench warfare)
would beat the shit out of a machine gunner. You simply cannot aim that fast at low distance with a heavy machine gun.
Before you start argumenting, that it would be unfair to give the guy with low-cost equipment the advantage:
If someone comes close enough to attack you with melee weapons or HtT, while you use a minigun, than you made some serious mistakes, or you are simply out of ammo.
If you don´t agree with this, then ask yourself why all armys arround the world still use sniper rifles, bayonets, pistols and assault rifles and not simply equip all their soldiers with real (but normal) machine guns like the MG42. This one has 1500rpm, with only 10,6kg weight, while being relatively cheap and simple to build, as it is a german ww2 machine gun.
A real minigun does ~6000rpm, but weight is at least 16kg, without ammo. As you need alot of it, you are likely to have 30kg and more.
Try to lift something with that much weight and do fast, controlled movement with this, stopping at just the position you want to. No chance!
Thats a weopon for tripods, aircrafts and maybe supermutans and people in power armor.
Rather than making them more powerful, why not lower their upkeep costs? drop the price of 5mm ammo by 1 or 2 caps.
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Avengers with brd do 480-600 damage, plasma doesn't even come close to that.
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Avengers with brd do 480-600 damage, plasma doesn't even come close to that.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAhahaha.... not funny.
Even at point blank it doesn't deal so much damage... Well maybe with JHP on a bluesuit wiythout toughness? But that's all. We are talking about TC fight.
Since the alpha strike and the general DPS have been nerfed, it's far better to do a nasty 100 dmg blinding crit, or even just a 60 blinding (and if you're lucky, you gonna make twice damage than that and immediately kill your opponent) than to do 2 burst for 160 dmg which gonna be healed just after. And you can fire your plasma rifle twice, like the minigun...
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAhahaha.... not funny.
Even at point blank it doesn't deal so much damage... Well maybe with JHP on a bluesuit wiythout toughness? But that's all. We are talking about TC fight.
Since the alpha strike and the general DPS have been nerfed, it's far better to do a nasty 100 dmg blinding crit, or even just a 60 blinding (and if you're lucky, you gonna make twice damage than that and immediately kill your opponent) than to do 2 burst for 160 dmg which gonna be healed just after. And you can fire your plasma rifle twice, like the minigun...
I'm talking about base damage obviously, still more than enough to one shot pretty much anything close range. Hell even last wipe against 2xpsycho in BA it still did decent damage.
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cultist sorry but u are a noob, u dont know anything about the last changes so please dont write anything, u cannot take 2 psycho anymore. The max DR which u can get is ca:bh 40+15 psycho and forget perks there is many other more important ones.
The thing killing avenger is DT + 55% DR. Chosen soliders made a test with Solar and what he says and what they say are 2 diffrent things, on one side u have a dev who ( propably have never fought during any TC or bigger pvp fight ) on the other side u have old pvp players who know how to play, and stop talking about BRB every single BG has both these perks. Last time in gecko when we fought against "black hands" i had 3 or 4, 1 hex battles, i had ca:bh and avenger vs ma:mk2 + lsws, at ppoint blank they hit me more than i hit them ( there was no critical hits at that time ) every single time i hit them for 135-140 while they hit me for 150-155 i won every single skimrish thx to my ap not my gun, and people who say that avenger does 300 dmg supposed to go out of their caves they know nothing about this game.
about plasma rifles - many times u have close combat battles by corners or through doors, and this is where plasma simple rox, avenger or any other bg cannot 1 ko kill ur opponent even if u are the lucky one and hit ur critical (140-170 dmg) ur enemy can simple hide behind a cover and use 1 or 2 SS, u waste ur ammo and tell me how much u can take 500 ? 800 ? its only a few burst during longer battles most of the avenger users is out of ammo in no time and all they do is wasting opponnents super stimpacks, at the same time even if ur opponent have the stonewall perk u can 1 hit 1 kill him with ur plasma rifle if u hit ur 2xx max bypass hit or any knockdown or knockout, through the doors most of the time u have 1 hex against the other hex battle and game mechanics dont allow other people shoot at the guy inside, so most of the times knockout means death,
oh and ammo its easier to take 50 mfc on you than 30 x 50 5mm ammo and think about crafting it ,,,,, OMFG ,,,, 1500 5 mm ammo means 5 x 1h 20 min, yes indeed avenger is the toy gun and the guy who did the settlers thing supposed to do it for the next 10 years every day for 10 hours a day,
nice block of txt i hope i shed some light on the problem
and one more thing i like the longer battles, at this time armors mean something u can see the diffrence if u put a ma:mk2 or ca:bh on you the problem is u only see it against avenger, plasma rifles lsws and other critical hit weapons supposed to be nerfed if u compare them to the top1, the most expensive gun in the history of the games the avenger
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First off, if you had actually read what I wrote you would have realized I WAS TALKING ABOUT LAST WIPE when I mentioned 2x psycho. I've never run out of 5mm during a fight and have never needed more than 2 bursts, the only way plasma can even come close to competing is with aimed shots which is a waste of time unless your opponent is using an aim bot. Are you joking about not being able to one shot someone with an avenger? especially at close range it outperforms the plasma rifle. Unless someone gets an instakill on me they aren't taking me out with a single plasma shot, so your thing about people hiding and healing applies more to plasma as you are less likely to survive avenger. Your main argument seems to be that
A) You suck at math
B) Omg its expensive
Miniguns can be obtained at 0 det 2 per char so you can build up a ton quickly with faction mates and ammo isn't that hard to come by.
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u dont get something armor piercing ammo has been changed, thats why DT is killing avenger, and if u havent seen 230 +++ bypass hits with plasma it means u havent seen too much, do u fight during TC or only pve vs molerats ...
and one more time read slowly :
at point blank with avenger with 2BRD i do 140 dmg vs ma:mk2
at point blank !!!
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u dont get something armor piercing ammo has been changed, thats why DT is killing avenger, and if u havent seen 230 +++ bypass hits with plasma it means u havent seen too much, do u fight during TC or only pve vs molerats ...
and one more time read slowly :
at point blank with avenger with 2BRD i do 140 dmg vs ma:mk2
at point blank !!!
I've seen 255 damage from a thrown rock, I go by averages not by max possible.
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u dont get something armor piercing ammo has been changed, thats why DT is killing avenger, and if u havent seen 230 +++ bypass hits with plasma it means u havent seen too much, do u fight during TC or only pve vs molerats ...
and one more time read slowly :
at point blank with avenger with 2BRD i do 140 dmg vs ma:mk2
at point blank !!!
This is nonsense.
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no, this is the situation....
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Damage 12-15, lets take the lowest possible damage of 12
12*2/3 = 8 < dam_mod
8-1 = 7 < -DT
DR of metal is 35, -35DR from AP ammo => no DR
7*40 = 280 if every bulet hits
Now, perhaps he missed with half of his bullets and got the lowest damage roll on every bullet, which is an almost impossiby rare situation with decent weapon skill, but to bring that up in a discussion about balance is nonsense.
Avenger is still the #1 DPS weapon on the game. Thats all there is to it and it has been proven several times.
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every single one was standing on the next hex i had 95% on him, propably the math formula is fucked up
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Plasma is back to being useless now anyways
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about plasma rifles - many times u have close combat battles by corners or through doors, and this is where plasma simple rox, avenger or any other bg cannot 1 ko kill ur opponent even if u are the lucky one and hit ur critical (140-170 dmg) ur enemy can simple hide behind a cover and use 1 or 2 SS, u waste ur ammo and tell me how much u can take 500 ? 800 ? its only a few burst during longer battles most of the avenger users is out of ammo in no time and all they do is wasting opponnents super stimpacks, at the same time even if ur opponent have the stonewall perk u can 1 hit 1 kill him with ur plasma rifle if u hit ur 2xx max bypass hit or any knockdown or knockout, through the doors most of the time u have 1 hex against the other hex battle and game mechanics dont allow other people shoot at the guy inside, so most of the times knockout means death,
oh and ammo its easier to take 50 mfc on you than 30 x 50 5mm ammo
plasma is as great is it was before the wipe, i wouldnt call it useless
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(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/Vorian_/screen_09-10-2010_10-53-05.jpg)
vs 1*toughness too