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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Separatist on September 12, 2010, 11:09:53 am
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Usual day in a dog eating dog fo)
I gathered a big amount of stims and other staff and came to shop to buy myself equipment, as I understand Hub is a protected city and if someone will start to shoot at you he will be killed too. Apparently not. So here is the new way to rob someone. One is coming to you with smg and fires at you 2 loads of lead, kills you, taking you're stuff and putting it on the ground. The other one taking it and leaves without any consequence. Sure - the first one will be killed but what he losses? Nothing. There are several shops in game-world where no guards present. Like this on:
http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=12-034536L&rand=3632&t=jpg&m=09&y=2010&srv=img4
Give me your opinion, it is supposed to be like this?
Nicknames of those 2: loki and argon.
Beware!) Of course it is obvious that they could be a pair of NNN number mults.
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i am also disappointed, its 3weeks after wipe and game is quite dead :l
nothing is happening, boring
how this far - worst season ever
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All I see is you standing in a store alone... and even if there were guards inside I would presume the result would have been the same anyways.
This method is already well used elsewhere even in the middle of NCR to some success with no amount of guards stopping it assuming they picked the right mark to target.
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If someone gets murdered in a guarded city, it'll be one of a few things:
Exploiting bad guard AI.
Taking advantage of the lack of guards in a specific area.
Being a dick.
Killing someone so their friend can get their stuff.
Of course, the reality is you wouldn't be able to get away with it in a city - the guards will realise what the hell is going on.
To compensate for the AI's shortcomings and people's neverending ability to take advantage of it, I propose that if you die in a guarded town you just get sent to the local hospital and you get to keep your items.
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To compensate for the AI's shortcomings and people's neverending ability to take advantage of it, I propose that if you die in a guarded town you just get sent to the local hospital and you get to keep your items.
That would just create more problems especially concerning thievery.
Player A steals from player B, player B then shoots player A at which point player A awakens in hospital with all his stolen loot ready to get away scott free.
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That would just create more problems especially concerning thievery.
Player A steals from player B, player B then shoots player A at which point player A awakens in hospital with all his stolen loot ready to get away scott free.
We just need to get rid of PvP stealing. I just can't see how it can work without being totally retarded. The fact that you know someone is trying to steal from you, and can't do anything about it. Or, alternatively, using lockpick on you for LOLOLOLOLOL I TROLL U.
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I think better and simpler would be if the guards just shot everybody who tried to loot a body in guarded town...
Although I don't know how would that work against people using frag nades...
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I think the best solution would be if guards just shot the guy that killed someone in the first place + all his mates. And everyone the bad assassin ever talked to ingame, just to be sure.
The other would be to stop whining about stupid shit.
(this post doesn't help anyone, nor does it intend to)
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Didn'y you folks already know?? Fonline is totally all about roleplaying a super douchebag. Sure there are some nice folks here and there but otherwise the game just caters to griefing. If your not griefing then its YOUR fault and your missing out so stop whining or join the griefing fun. Man, the nerve of some people to expect the game to have any sort of fairness is appalling. If you can buy a car, it can be griefed. If a city is guarded (well obviously), you can be griefed anyways. If your travelling you can be griefed. If your crafting some thief could grief you. When your buying shit you better have super good multi-tasking twitch reflexes cause thieves will come test you as soon as you walk up to a vendor (ask yourself can you browse the insanely crowded sea of used and little bit of new merchandise, move your goods, get what ya want placed down, and conclude the sale all the while watching for thieves or suspicious skills used AKA first aid). If you cannot handle the aformentioned things, just cancel your shopping experience whenever someone makes a suspicious move. I paid someone 20k for a roach and thanks to a rollback, his char got put into a fight and got killed without his knowledge (money of course is gone). Just for the lulz you can run into random encounters and get placed right in the MIDDLE of a caravan (funny thing is they dont like people being so close and they shoot you dead). You can attempt a quest to get small guns 3 and, for the LULZ, anyone can fuck it up for you. The list goes on and on.
I can't believe people just come here and NOT ALREADY KNOW, Fonline is totally about the griefing. Damn nubs should stop whining or go play WoW.
PS: Sarcasm for the win.
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You know what, sarcasm aside you're 101% right.
I came to fonline from UO, sick of people wanting secure this and secure that and insured quip and PKs being devil personified. The list goes on.
From what I gathered of FOnline, before I started playing it, was that it was harsh. You're a n00b, someone shoots you, takes your stuff. You're a n00b, someone follows you to your tent, you lose stuff. So I figured this must be the one MMO where people won't cry (too much) over lost pixels. But from what I'm reading on these boards, 90% of forum population should just play Hello Kitty MMO where everything's safe, everything's free and you can't lose anything. And even then, someone would find something to complain about.
It's not the complaints that piss me off. It's the attitude. Game balance is one thing and reasonable comments on that are ok imo. But when people start with xy is overpowered because it killed me, xy should be changed so I don't lose my stuff I spent 1 hour gathering and making, xy is too hard to get and is totally overpriced...I guess this isn't the game for you. Go play another game, where stuff is secured and difficulty is set to the level where 30 year old mothers with no life can raid while breast feeding their kid.
The wasteland is harsh. So is FOnline. Or at least it will be, if you fuckers don't ruin everything.
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Well when people think of Fallout, they don't think of a twitch reflex game. you can be honest about that atleast.
People think of the original Fallouts when they think of Fonline. They don't expect to walk into an FPS enviornment where you can lose anything within a few seconds due to way too many factors to count.
If you want pvp thats fine but your western audiences wont pickup on it much. There are games out there with much better pvp and graphics to boot. Character builds, skill trees, loot tailored to certain builds.
IMHO not a lot of folks want a real wasteland cause then its just fucking depressing unless they are masochistic with game punishment (like me).
So if the devs want the servers dead and combat so tough idiots need aimbots and other haxxorz like packet filtering to gain an advantage then go for it.
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If people want WoW, they should go play WoW, not try to make FOnline into it. That's all I'm sayin'. :)
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They don't want WoW per say.
People come atleast because they like the idea of a Fallout MMO. More like it because its like the originals, (and not like some oblivion with guns deal Bethesda rellased).
But the thing is when legitimate concerns are addressed, they shouldn't be swept under the carpet with the wasteland is tough excuse.
Whats the point in guarding towns then when the guards cannot do their jobs? Why not make every town a wild wasteland?
Becuase then nobody but the hardcore would play. Soon even those folks will bitch because of hacks or cheats and then you have a game with nobody.
PVP has to have some kind of order to it. A simple non-monetary reason WoW is so popular is because of PVP balance. Every class has an advantage over another. Sure a rogue can stunlock a mage but let see him try it on a warrior?
In Fonline, shit like sneak nade/burst totally fucked up pvp. The whole who shoots first wins deal. So then what do you get? More of the same builds to compete. No variety. Keep in mind the majority of pvp action happens in towns where combat is RT. Whether its TC or some asshole trying to start a war by ganking, twitch reflexes win the day. The loss of twitch reflexes is so severe that people have to resort to aimbots and packet filtering hacks to get an advantage or just to compete. Am I the only one who sees this problem?
Everyone get a chance to experience end game content, not just the L33T. If those folks who arn't L33T can't handle end-game then fine. Atleast they get to try it out. Wonder how many folks rage quit Fonline? Again, most of your hardcore pvp crowd demands graphics and action that only a FPS can bring. Talkaall you want about hardcore but your hardcore base will always be the minority compared to those who come in looking for something different in a sea of sameness.
Better yet compare Fonline world to some third world country rife with constant despots and rebel militas. You think anyone is really happy there??
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Very emotional. (c)
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That would just create more problems especially concerning thievery.
Player A steals from player B, player B then shoots player A at which point player A awakens in hospital with all his stolen loot ready to get away scott free.
No it wouldnt!
The simple solution/implementation is that if you are "protected" then you wake up in the hospital with your items. Want to make it more harsh? Make it a percentage or base it on luck! You die while protected in a city with guards you wake up in the hospital with 50% +5% per luck point of having your items.
Did you steal from someone and they shot you but they had seen you so you are no longer protected? Bam you are dead, no items and you are back at starting point.
Overall I agree with Keldorn. Its one thing to say you were out in the wastes and you got killed by NPC's or PC's... okay you lost your items, tough luck, take revenge next time etch (although the killers should get a global negative karma but thats for another discussion).
but here we are talking about an obvious exploit!
I seen it happen in NCR! Guy goes next to his target, he bursts at him, if that doesnt kill him the numerous guards in the area will ussually also burst and that will ensure the death of the target and the "fall guy". Then the fall guy's friend will immidiatetly jump and rob the body of the target. (its also easy to see whats someone carrying in order to decide your target, even if you dont manage to steal cause they ran away you still get a look of what they have in their inventory).
Is this how it is "supposed" to be working? If a dev says yes then no worries, matter is settled and closed... but I thought that by "protected" we really do mean protected city as opposed to unprotected!
Another "trick" would be to disallow looting a non-flagged/unprotected player which would allow me to get back my stuff if I was robed and killed the robber. And by disallow I mean that the guards would shoot the looter as well.
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Keldorn
Wonder how many folks rage quit Fonline?
A lot. First rage quiters were players who were griefed by players who used multilogs and had enough spare alts and materials to grief. Then when developers finally banned all multiloged alts and stoped unfamous FOCD lots of cheaters rage quited. Now thats irony.
FOnline as it is, is game set for maximum griefing. I saw only 1 game that had more griefing - it was Killer Mud - you start in Tavern that is only safe zone in game and as soon as you leave Tavern you can be killed anywhere. And there was always 10 players waiting in Tavern to kill new players and about another 10 players walking outside near start zone to kill new players who somehow escaped alive from said Tavern.
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LOL KILLER MUD? I've created that mud ;D ;D
anyway, for me the constant stealing plague is causing rage quit!! FFS its worse than mosquitos!
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This is one of the oldest exploits in the game. It could be fixed by encouraging players to live longer. That way nobody would shoot someone in safe towns and then get shot by guards in return. Robbing is okay but a robbing method where another robber is always killed doesn't make any sense.
Robber1 "You get to be the dead guy this time"
Robber2 "Whee it's so much fun!"
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yep, it's as retarded as this:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RaeT6GjizlA/THPxP0LF6CI/AAAAAAAAAbk/hPcSMw4CUEY/s1600/gir.pig.flying.jpg)
there should be some incentive for someone to stay alive, isn't that the point of the wasteland anyways?
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Well I really have no idea how to prevent this. Only renewing AI feature where city guards looted every corpse and shot every looter of body of non tagged victim.
Until that u just have to get used to fact that unguarded towns are as safe as guarded ones and watch your back everytime.
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if you have 100,000 to trade, try making it in 20 trips of 5,000 instead of 1 trip of 100,000.
this is simple. would you walk through a dangerous neighborhood holding a twenty, or holding a hundred. god... the griefing in this game isn't even bad. most of the time it is a dumb carebear who doesn't know how the game works, or didn't care to read the wiki, or thought it was like wow, and now he pays for his mistake in the form of death.
O NOES!!!
pking =/= griefing
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pking =/= griefing
No it,s not, but PKers = griefers
Or how else should one call it if 3 players in metal mk2 or tesla armor, well armed and with 3 mercs, shoot a low level blue suit?
As you were 1 of them, I'd like to know.
And another one which happened to me last night:
1 of my alts spawns in Malamute saloon in Redding as it has a room there.
The moment I walk out of malamute, or even in the saloon part of it, I get killed.
That happened a few times till Rusty helped me out and teleported me to another part of the map so I could leave town.
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No it,s not, but PKers = griefers
Or how else should one call it if 3 players in metal mk2 or tesla armor, well armed and with 3 mercs, shoot a low level blue suit?
As you were 1 of them, I'd like to know.
And another one which happened to me last night:
1 of my alts spawns in Malamute saloon in Redding as it has a room there.
The moment I walk out of malamute, or even in the saloon part of it, I get killed.
That happened a few times till Rusty helped me out and teleported me to another part of the map so I could leave town.
That's just the way it is... Every low lvl from time to time meets overwhelming forces.
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That's just the way it is... Every low lvl from time to time meets overwhelming forces.
Or you can just hide in you tent or faction base :P
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Or you can just hide in you tent or faction base :P
If you can get there without getting spawncamped.
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Usual day in a dog eating dog fo)
I gathered a big amount of stims and other staff and came to shop to buy myself equipment, as I understand Hub is a protected city and if someone will start to shoot at you he will be killed too. Apparently not. So here is the new way to rob someone. One is coming to you with smg and fires at you 2 loads of lead, kills you, taking you're stuff and putting it on the ground. The other one taking it and leaves without any consequence. Sure - the first one will be killed but what he losses? Nothing. There are several shops in game-world where no guards present. Like this on:
http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=12-034536L&rand=3632&t=jpg&m=09&y=2010&srv=img4
Give me your opinion, it is supposed to be like this?
Nicknames of those 2: loki and argon.
Beware!) Of course it is obvious that they could be a pair of NNN number mults.
my names Aryan, n0t 'arg0n' and im a theif what d0 y0u expect?
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The topic is not about gangs and level 15++ killing bluesuits...
its about an exploitable bug/ AI issue and if it can be fixed.
Or do you think that this is how the game should work?
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my names Aryan, n0t 'arg0n' and im a theif what d0 y0u expect?
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The topic is not about gangs and level 15++ killing bluesuits...
its about an exploitable bug/ AI issue and if it can be fixed.
Or do you think that this is how the game should work?
Use of Exploits is not thievery.
Anyway, everything were spoken correctly, shooting in protected town should be punished by the guards, no matter what.
to people who were referring to "harsh wasteland": you are the biggest naggers and hypocrites here. You want the "real wasteland" - create your own mod with blackjack and hookers where won't be any respawn, where your tents and bases would be attacked by overwhelming number of supermutants, raiders and other mobs. Then we will speak about harsh wasteland.
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i dont think anyone is arguing that shop killing is a little dumb. but this has been going on since the days of ultima online -- theres REALLY no way to completely stop this, because introduction of clever mechanics opens up shops and merchants for further exploits.
i highly recommend to anyone complaining about such a feature to design a new feature that would eradicate this problem - i am sure if the developers couldve done something about it already, they would've.
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I say track down the exploiters and lobotomize them, only permanent solution to the problem...
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how about marking the items??
For ex. shooted character is losing now his items, which are laying on a floor and marked as 'hot'. Hot items can b picked by NPC only, every palyer who would try to pick those items gonna be crit shoot i the eyes, and die instantly ( :P ) and all stuff is now going same way to NPC. There is no intrest in shoting anybody or being shooted in this ex.
Now about thieves & stealing.
Thief, when spotted at stealing, have turn on battle time (like now), can be shot without consq. and have marked ALL items he's got as 'stealed'[as long as battle time runs].
If he manage to run away, prize is stayin with him.
If shooted, items are market second time [stealed & hot now],then stuff can be picked only by NPC and, after all this mess, robbed player can collect his and thief's items[mean all marked as 'stealed'] from designated to this purpose NPC [for example sheriff in NCR]
I know Fonline is all about survival, its harsz, dangerous etc etc...... But guarded town shoud be really GUARDED, not semi-guarded, almost guarded or looks like guarded(this is how its look like now) :)
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i highly recommend to anyone complaining about such a feature to design a new feature that would eradicate this problem - i am sure if the developers couldve done something about it already, they would've.
Ooh OOH! You're daring! Make players not die so easily and encourage players to live longer. If living was the point of the game in first place, players wouldn't be so eager to sacrifice themselves for items.
The reason why devs haven't fixed this is the lack of reports. Where are the reports from those dudes who did this griefing? They are the ones that are supposed to tell that this exploit exists in first place.
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Speaking for myself and about 10 or so of my faction mates, I can tell you that none of us even goes into town unless absolutely neccessary. When we do to go towns we sneak in and get out as fast as possible. It kinda sucks that a major part of the game (the towns) are pretty much off limits due to griefers and theives. Wouldn't it be nice if you could walk into town without worrying about being robbed / killed? Like we don't have enough of that shit everywhere else in the game. IMO it is pretty F'd up that the only town with more than 3 PCs in the whole game is NCR, so basically the other half dozen or so towns are basically useless because of asshole players, and the fact that the game mechanics offer almost no protection against them.
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While entering guarded town all items that player got in inventory are marked as his belongings unless he got low reputation. This marking should also be made after each Player to Player or Player to NPC trade and while receiving items from NPC (quest/profession).
If player gets killed, all his items can not be looted by anyone else than guard NPC (looters will be shot on sight). All those items can be later recovered at special NPC (somekind of police officer).
Is it possible to implement - I don't know but if so then this solves only killing for loot problem and doesn't break pathetic thievery system. Killing for fun problem still remains.
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While entering guarded town all items that player got in inventory are marked as his belongings unless he got low reputation. This marking should also be made after each Player to Player or Player to NPC trade and while receiving items from NPC (quest/profession).
If player gets killed, all his items can not be looted by anyone else than guard NPC (looters will be shot on sight). All those items can be later recovered at special NPC (somekind of police officer).
Is it possible to implement - I don't know but if so then this solves only killing for loot problem and doesn't break pathetic thievery system. Killing for fun problem still remains.
The following only applies for guarded towns:
You say it doesn't affect thieving, yet items only get marked when going into town or when trading.
That does affect thieving.
Reputation for killing in shops and FLC should at least by equal to that of doorblocking.
The same should be implemented when shooting protected players within 3 hexes of an npc trader.
Another option would be to add 1 real day of jail time for shop shooting.
Any items on the killer will be confiscated by the guards and not returned.
Unprotected players can still be shot everywhere.
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If you run out of the town with items you stolen they are considered as yours. Where's the problem?
And yet it doesn't matter as thievery isn't the most important part of this topic.
Another option would be to add 1 real day of jail time for shop shooting.
Because it takes so much to create alt able to use 10mm SMG...
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If you run out of the town with items you stolen they are considered as yours. Where's the problem?
And yet it doesn't matter as thievery isn't the most important part of this topic.
Because it takes so much to create alt able to use 10mm SMG...
With this suggestion not when you stay in town.
Thievery may not be an important part of this topic, the suggestion has consequences for it.
With jail time after each attack you'll need a lot of alts to keep camping shops and there's a 10 minutes relog time.
I'm sure shop shooters get tired of it quickly.
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Back to the subject.
Both guys were standing outside the shop, waiting for people to enter.
After I entered, they entered.
The guy with the Russian name fired a burst at me, doing 41 damage.
Than 2 shop guards killed him.
The 3rd guard and the merchants were already dead.
The other guy, named Kavai_Lamar (not clearly visible on image), didn't do anything when he saw his friend getting shot.
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9982/screen19102010201918.jpg) (http://img529.imageshack.us/i/screen19102010201918.jpg/)
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It is so easy to make a 10mm SMG so why bother to shop shoot? Why not make one with an alt??
Its suppose to be a guarded city, what is so hard to understand?
And people say the "carebears" are the only folks who whine.
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The city is guarded, that's why the guards attack the shooting person if:
1. They saw/heard him shooting
2. They can reach him
3. He doesn't have epicly high reputation
4. They aren't bugged
You've been killed. Your killer has been killed if he could be. If he couldn't be killed, he wasn't killed.
So what?
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The problem with thievery is the pathetic gains but huge annoyance. Pickpockets in real lie are usually small time criminals/desperate folks who need pickpocket wallets for identity theft or just money for food. In the wasteland both of those needs are non-existant. The majority of folks ingame usually dont even carry good stuff on them or put it in thier hands.
So in the end being a thief plays no other role than just to grief, unless the devs implement a quest where the rewards for thieving make the skill worthwhile for other reasons besides the former.
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This is not about thievery, it's about lame people shooting people in shops.
One person shoots you and is killed by guards, his friend picks up whatever you're carrying.
It's lame, especially if people are preying on low(er) level blue suits.
Fortunately this alt of mine has 2x toughness and the Russian guy wasn't able to fire a 2nd burst.
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So in the end being a thief plays no other role than just to grief, unless the devs implement a quest where the rewards for thieving make the skill worthwhile for other reasons besides the former.
Wrong. When I was yet playing, I had a thief alt. And that made me rich. Of course I also used it to grief - planting dynamites in people's pockets. Also I had rules - I didn't steal from poor, like some do. I was angry when with my 1 lvl char 200 caps i got stolen from. Who the fuck cares for 200 caps? This was just lame. That's griefing indeed. But thieving is useful. When I manage to steal a fkin minigun or a sniper rifle, or tons of ammo... That is nice.
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Didn'y you folks already know?? Fonline is totally all about roleplaying a super douchebag.
Unique selling point!
loot tailored to certain builds.
I hate this "feature", loot should be what the loot would be for that type of area/enemy. I see a "game" reason why loot would be tailored to a character, but no "world" reason. You exist in the world, try to survive/pursue goals; the world shouldn't revolve around you.
Better yet compare Fonline world to some third world country rife with constant despots and rebel militias. You think anyone is really happy there??
This is literally what the FO world would be like.
It's great.
@ OP
Guard AI does need improvement, but getting stuff back should be at a ransom of 20% value per character level (guards take a cut.)
No getting stuff back after lvl 5.
<5th lvl trading alts of course will appear, but they'll be easy to kill.
Also, must claim in 24 hrs (Game Time). Lost loot appears in stores (not as caps, or I would convert surplus items to caps by murdering accomplices, then barter for it).
Quest items always ransomable, in a gesture of peace towards carebears.
Also, Reputation penalties need reworking, including towns/factions posting bounties for some individuals.
and so on.
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Just a FYI:
This is currently going on in VC where 2 PK with 249 HP kill low level blue suits in stores and at the workbench.
1 blocks the door for guards, the other does the kills and picks up the loot.
2nd guy picks up the loot from the corpse of his friend.
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Maybe fighting should be made impossible by game mechanics, when you are in certain areas (Shops etc.)?
For example: When you are at shop, your AP drops to one and it will not regenerate until you go out from the shop? Or somethink like that...
Maybe thieves should also have some annoying cooldowns, like crafters (or even worse) ;P
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I agree with most of these points, especially the marking of gear. Personally if you're shot in a guarded town I think your gear should be marked for a period of time to be only yours, and only npcs can pick it up, you can then return and talk to the guards or sheriff and get it back. This was already suggested in this thread but a repost wouldn't hurt. Also if you are a thief or shooter in town, there should be serious consequences in guarded towns. Not just the slap on the hand and possibility of being shot by someone who managed to notice. More like you are instantly vilified by the town, until such time as your karma drops back to neutral, (via shop selling, npc rep kills, waiting ect.) The 5 second memory of guards is insane, especially in "The most powerful city in the Wastes." Or guards in the Hub, where they're damn near trained killers. The shooting system in merchant areas is tough, but post guards in those buildings that might help. "World" RP reason because of the reports of poor wastelanders being blown away right under guards noses. "Game" RP reason, because people will actually consider coming to towns talking, and experiencing them.
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Just a FYI:
This is currently going on in VC where 2 PK with 249 HP kill low level blue suits in stores and at the workbench.
1 blocks the door for guards, the other does the kills and picks up the loot.
2nd guy picks up the loot from the corpse of his friend.
Happend to me as well.. I like how this game is very heavy pvp but there NEEDS to be some safe towns. The current guard system is not working and people that abuse the system are ruining the game for many.
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Happend to me as well.. I like how this game is very heavy pvp but there NEEDS to be some safe towns. The current guard system is not working and people that abuse the system are ruining the game for many.
Any automatic NPC system is and will be abused. Only player driven system could be really safe and fair.
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Happend to me as well.. I like how this game is very heavy pvp but there NEEDS to be some safe towns. The current guard system is not working and people that abuse the system are ruining the game for many.
Nowhere is safe. Nothing will prevent a person from raising a gun and launching a bullet through your skull. What can be done is to discourage that. Biggest reason why guarded town shooting happens is that players don't care about their lives but they do care about their items.
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Any automatic NPC system is and will be abused. Only player driven system could be really safe and fair.
So in your words we might as well not have guarded towns since the devs don't have the know-how to handle this problem right. Lets just keep making this game into a total wasteland where fuckos just shoot eachother all day everyday everywhere. All good shit is hidden in bases and everwhere we go we see lamk2 or cljs only.
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how about marking the items??
Now about thieves & stealing.
Thief, when spotted at stealing, have turn on battle time (like now), can be shot without consq. and have marked ALL items he's got as 'stealed'[as long as battle time runs].
If he manage to run away, prize is stayin with him.
If shooted, items are market second time [stealed & hot now],then stuff can be picked only by NPC[/u]
Items are magically unpickupable? How about guards shoot them if they try to take it?
If they survive, so be it.
(plus a reputaion adjustment and RT hour cooldown on guards targeting them)
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I think the idea of if you break the rules in a guarded town, you get vilified, not til you die, but till it goes away over time. That would be a discouragement. Cause then they don't get their precious items either.
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And again this is currently going on in VC.
1 thief: Yoshimo
1 shooter: 12OzZzMous
1 looter: Anreki (although he is actually too stupid and too slow as he failed to loot before an npc did, although he could)
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Maybe fighting should be made impossible by game mechanics, when you are in certain areas (Shops etc.)?
For example: When you are at shop, your AP drops to one and it will not regenerate until you go out from the shop? Or somethink like that...
Maybe thieves should also have some annoying cooldowns, like crafters (or even worse) ;P
As soon as i read this i thought of being trapped in a shop unable to open the door to leave :'( Shop shooting is pretty sad but i can't comment on it that much since i play when most players are off it seems (mid US player) but i was also thinking couldnt a player simply run into a shop after raping someone and not be able to be killed?
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i was also thinking couldnt a player simply run into a shop after raping someone and not be able to be killed?
You're always able to be killed, that's part of the problem discussed in this thread.
If you kill an unprotected player without hitting a protected player, you stay protected.
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the issue with town killing has always, and will continue to be, penalties that are not severe enough.
if you want to hang out in any of the towns, you should be FORCED to play safe. i am a huge pk and i thoroughly enjoy killing noobs in towns, around towns, etc. this would negatively affect my character, so i am not just some carebear hoping to make my life easier.
this thread is basically one giant suggestion that would only serve to improve the immersion and feel of the game. although, i will have to disagree with keldorn... if it starts becoming like wow where people hang out in front of towns with their buddies in their leet gear, there won't be much of a population for long! if anything the top end gear needs to be even more rare because most players who care to have a nearly endless supply of t3 gear that could only be depleted through non-normal means of dying... eg, chain deaths before the end of the wipe just for shits and giggles.
IMO, the protection of towns should extend to the immediate area they surround. If you kill someone in an encounter with marauders and NCR patrol, you should still take an NCR rep hit. Likewise, in the boneyard, I can't tell you how many times i've killed people in plain sight of the regulators, only for them to basically congratulate me on the kill and then try to steal the loot themselves. am i wrong in thinking the regulators by FO lore should be shooting me and helping my victims, not waiting to steal my loot?
if there was a 'localized' justice system, not wasteland-wide, i think the game would drastically improve. Also, being killed by someone should auto-red-name them for you... you can set them green yourself at a later time if they prove to be non-hostile.
like others have said, there is no all seeing eye that judges the actions of all in the wasteland so a blue/red PK/APK system like UO would not work. however, i do believe a local justice system is exactly what is needed. if i am PK in the boneyard, i should not be allowed into adytum. likewise if i am a friend of the regulators, i should not be permitted into the gun runners. (wait, i might be wrong. i think the gun runners are hostile to adytum, right?)
noob gankers with their 5-6man TB-encounter traps outside NCR should suffer the penalties of their actions. there is no cohesive feel to the areas around the towns, they feel as though the NPCs in those areas are completely disconnected from the main areas.
TC towns should probably be exempt from this rule, but with enough balancing of both NPC strength and penalties, you could apply a blanket, localized rule to all towns that affects the immediate squares surrounding such a town.
on that note... the squares between hub and JT are the most dangerous in the entire game. the hub patrols there should be FEARED, not looked to for an infinite supply of 5mm and assault rifles.
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@zato
My suggestion in regards to loot was for the bluesuit comment. As long as people fear losing their gear because of stupid cooldowns and shoppshooters/suicide bombers who assist in this problem, they will be naked. If people truly want to make a huge difference in bluesuits in the cities then reduce the risk, reduce the fear. AGAIN, guarded cities are supposed to be safe for everyone. It is truly stupid that guards only protect NPCs even though without the players NPCs would be pointless.
My answer was also a reply to endless suggestions on how to get rid of bluesuits when the suggestion itself sounds more like more opportunities for exploiters to get more loot. Even worse when a far easier remedy is available but continues to be ignored.
How would people showing off shit in town cause the server pop to go down? If anything its the new games offering the same thing Fonline does (cept they do it better AKA New Vegas) is whats causign the servers to be more quiet than normal.
Fonline is a one trick pony with a killz for the lulz mentality as its main selling point. Past that it offers nothing that other games cannot provide.
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Well I know I suggested earlier that people breaking the rules in towns should be brought to Vilified til it naturally wears off. I think that might only partially help, because people still have alts and those truly devoted to causing issues to people in towns, would just create more. So I think that a PvP enable system may be an idea. (I am writing a full suggestion for that section) Essentially players can disable being a pvp target, with certain actions causing the player to become pvp instantly. For example breaking rules in guarded towns, attacking a pvp player anywhere, stealing and so forth. This would help prevent people from hiding behind not being flagged because they can only attack other pvp people or guards and doing so would cause them to be enabled. I would go so far as to let it be enabled (by choice) in the wasteland, except in unguarded towns, and areas. You go into an unguarded mine you should expect to have to earn it.
I just think it would cut down on a ton of grief to low lvl players, and those not completely interested in pvp all the time everywhere, and would increase the pvp population, because if you get to actually survive with your gear at lvl 1-5 you may level up to 21 eventually and want to try your hand at the other aspects of the game.
I know that people are already foaming at the mouth reading this, but this wouldn't take pvp entirely out of the game, it would just add a buffer for people. And there will always be ways to cause lowbies grief, for example you drop into an encounter with a low lvl not enabled, you kill everything they're trying to, and then 'lulz' and leave. Yay you, you get your jollies.
*note no more Shop shootings and bombings. Peace in guarded towns.*
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i dont like all of the ideas i heard here. The truly great thing about fonline is that it is so harsh, so mean and so "exploitable". I played a endless horde of generic human paladins, gay elves and stuff. But i never had a game where i could rip people off everything they possess. But still i think death is most of the time avoidable. When ur totally new its really really hard i know.
So here maybe a little idea how you could change this in guarded town murderer thing. Maybe it would be cool if really near standing guards could fire before you fire when u try to kill somebody. Like professional Guards that fire as soon as somebody draws a weapon.
But i would really hate it if it was like in the guarded part of NCR where u just get shot for carrying a weapon.
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i dont like all of the ideas i heard here. The truly great thing about fonline is that it is so harsh, so mean and so "exploitable". I played a endless horde of generic human paladins, gay elves and stuff. But i never had a game where i could rip people off everything they possess. But still i think death is most of the time avoidable. When ur totally new its really really hard i know.
So here maybe a little idea how you could change this in guarded town murderer thing. Maybe it would be cool if really near standing guards could fire before you fire when u try to kill somebody. Like professional Guards that fire as soon as somebody draws a weapon.
But i would really hate it if it was like in the guarded part of NCR where u just get shot for carrying a weapon.
Or the above idea where in a guarded town there is no choice. I agree the amount of freedom in this game is refreshing, however after the more than 100th time of being killed by a group of people all geared and camping just for you because you're not a challenge and losing any and all that you just spent hours working to get. Harsh is harsh, overly abundant harshness over and over and over, is just not fun, and quite boring.
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IMO, the protection of towns should extend to the immediate area they surround. If you kill someone in an encounter with marauders and NCR patrol, you should still take an NCR rep hit. Likewise, in the boneyard, I can't tell you how many times i've killed people in plain sight of the regulators, only for them to basically congratulate me on the kill and then try to steal the loot themselves. am i wrong in thinking the regulators by FO lore should be shooting me and helping my victims, not waiting to steal my loot?
This makes sense.
Currently only VC patrols and caravans shoot an attacker when the victim is a VC citizen.
It makes no difference whether or not the attacker is a VC citizen too.
Something like the above should extend to a player's protection status with the town.
If you lost it, an attacker should be able to shoot you in front of patrols and should allow you to keep the loot.
So here maybe a little idea how you could change this in guarded town murderer thing. Maybe it would be cool if really near standing guards could fire before you fire when u try to kill somebody. Like professional Guards that fire as soon as somebody draws a weapon.
I think this is a good suggestion for the inner city of NCR and VC.
It's also a good suggestion for shops.
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@zato1
Localized reputation would only work if the reputation itself couldn't be waved back and forth by first doing something bad and then repaying that by doing something "good".
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@zato1
Localized reputation would only work if the reputation itself couldn't be waved back and forth by first doing something bad and then repaying that by doing something "good".
yes, i fear such things would be deemed too harsh though... near permanent reputation damage? not in my fallouts!
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yes, i fear such things would be deemed too harsh though... near permanent reputation damage? not in my fallouts!
If someone really starts to regret his actions, he could be given a chance to repay to the victim and the -rep would be lifted. We could have a system at each secured town's law enforcement center where victims of assault could report in. The report would reduce the rep of the criminal and would only be lifted if the criminal pays a fine in caps and the victim agrees to take the caps. If the criminal has managed to become so hated that he's shot on sight at the city's gates, well he shoulda thought about that before pulling the trigger.
But otherwise, perma -rep - why not? The game isn't harsh enough for criminals, they have it easy right now. Criminals don't belong to the streets of socialized cities, but to lurk the highways and ruins for unfortunate travellers. Besides, being hated by someone means that you might be loved by his enemies. For example raiders might be interested in hiring you if you were hated by VC. Then again if someone just wants to fuck the world and cause troubble everywhere, he should expect nothing else in return.
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And if you read carefully in the posts that suggested Karma effects from these actions, that karma would return in time as it does even when you join the Raiders, or Enclave. It would just mean a few days of thinking about whether or not your actions in that town were really worth it. Especially if you're stuck in your hotel room in the Hub, or worse ejected from it til your Rep returns thus maybe losing the items you had in there.