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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Izual on August 31, 2010, 05:06:00 pm
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As said here (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=8660.0), devs want feedbacks about encounters. So I suggest we use this topic for everything we have to say about them.
So, my first thought:
NCR army, that you encounter below NCR Military Camp, has some problems.
- They often encounter Remnants of Master's army, which means there are huge explosions, player just has to spectate and to loot.
- The soldiers are actually named "Weak Gun Guard" and so on.
- The background of it is a bit of a problem, to me NCR Army encounters look like nerfed patrols. They have low or middle-tier stuff, while patrols (and caravans) have CAs and great guns; so is there some kind of weird hierarchy that means that you are first in NCR Army (with poor gear), then in patrols, where you have great stuff? In my opinion, NCR Army could be made very different from NCR patrols by increasing their number, for example. Like, 20 guys at least. This way, they could keep this poor gear, or if they had better gear they would really look like the part of an army.
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Agreed on the NCR army, as much as i like free loot, i just had to sit there for a few minutes in TB as they destroyed eachother, i also think there should be alot of them and have a mixed amount of Low to High Tier, for like grunts to officers as an example.
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This makes no sense... where do you think NCR patrols are coming from? I don't see no cop-uniforms, so first thing I think of is their Military... which... is NCR army...
I hope I am not the only one going lolwhut over this. :P
#2- Mutants everywhere! Almost...
But so far, if they are all over outside Adytum... wouldn't Adytum just be entirely overrun and wiped off the map? A bunch of wandering mutants with lasers and rockets, with pet critters, Vs a ragtag town with not even that great of a police force. Hum~
Hmm, 3#... Know what? This kind of goes for all the random centaur/floaters everywhere. While them being spread out is ok, I wanna know why it seems like they breed like rabbits. A chance to find them? Sure, but that chance better be damn small in some areas.
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I`ve noticed that some muties from Remnants of MA have flamethrower fuel in their hands. When they see enemy nearby, they switch to unarmed.
They just keep fuel for some BG player to kill&loot them? ::)
Green muties with 160 hp or so. Boneyard region.
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I have to say that encounters don't have good enough purpose in our game.
What comes to purpose encounters seem to exist to make player's life harder. What is it for the encounters to kill anyone? The stuff disappears and the npcs who killed the player cease from existing. What is it for players to encounter some enemies randomly who can mostly be just outrunned? Sometimes you even die randomly and nobody benefits from that. My first death happened 30mins from character creation: I spawned next to yakuza flamer who killed me. Totally useless death in terms of gameplay causality.
Surely encounters give loot and exp but if you don't want neither encounters are just nuisance. If you can run from mantis, why can't you just avoid them without entering the map?
When it comes to excessive farming of certain encounters they are cornucopias of free equipment. Farming is nothing special in typical mmo games but I think our game should aim higher. There's no farming in wasteland, everything useful is scarce because everyone wants it. Hunting caravans and patrols should bear dire consequences in addition to -rep. Raiding patrols and caravans could be one feature in incoming npc faction gameplay. Players could choose to defend or raid the npc factions. Raiding could be also related to bounty hunting, because if you have killed many patrolmen, you're wanted man.
I'd scrap most encounters and implement hunting grounds. The whole worldmap would be divided into sectors and each sector would have its own hunting ground in additon to normal but meaningful encounters. The hunting grounds would be vast areas with gatherable items, monsters, surprises and other players. If you die in hunting ground, you could try to get your stuff back or you might find someone else's stuff. Also every monster should provide players with something. Mantis, molerats, rats and radscorpions could give some sort of crafting materials for drugs.
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I also don't think players would complain as much if the walk speed was a little faster.
Other than that, around what I'd call the 'newb' area - between junktown, hub and ncr - I've noticed a lot of ghoul crazies and even centaurs wandering around... pretty hard I think considering the area
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As said here (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=8660.0), devs want feedbacks about encounters. So I suggest we use this topic for everything we have to say about them.
So, my first thought:
NCR army, that you encounter below NCR Military Camp, has some problems.
- They often encounter Remnants of Master's army, which means there are huge explosions, player just has to spectate and to loot.
- The soldiers are actually named "Weak Gun Guard" and so on.
- The background of it is a bit of a problem, to me NCR Army encounters look like nerfed patrols. They have low or middle-tier stuff, while patrols (and caravans) have CAs and great guns; so is there some kind of weird hierarchy that means that you are first in NCR Army (with poor gear), then in patrols, where you have great stuff? In my opinion, NCR Army could be made very different from NCR patrols by increasing their number, for example. Like, 20 guys at least. This way, they could keep this poor gear, or if they had better gear they would really look like the part of an army.
NCR Patrol? Or Rangers? Rangers and NCR Army are seperate things.
Masters army aren't stopping loot?
The Army encounter needs top be increased, it was just impossible to guess at a decent level for them to be set at, so I'll increse them based upon feedback. Willl also increase things such as Rangers, VC Patrol, Masters Army, Enclave Patrol, BoS patrol - so that they are actually a reasonable challenge, but also the only source of the higher tier stuff (which will disappear from the other encounter types.
As for where Masters stuff occurs, it comes from the Masters vault - I tried to have a logical spread of things - certain raider groups occur centred on an imagined raiders base for example. These groups are currently identical, but will change over time.
Cents did get a little too close to the Hub though and should (hopefully!) be further away after an update.
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NCR Patrol? Or Rangers? Rangers and NCR Army are seperate things.
NCR Patrol. Rangers are quite the same, it's true, but they have a solid background and a different purpose (and some special armor). I don't think we could say NCR Patrols and Rangers are the same things. However, when you look at the actual "NCR Army" encounter and then at NCR Patrols (not mentioning NCR Caravans), then one could thing - hey, I want to join the patrols, not the army! Which is strange, since the army should be better (more men at once, better gear) than the patrols (and patrols should be more frequent than the NCR Army).
I highlighted two problems with NCR Army :
- They're not enough at once, and with ridiculous gear (Also, according to Fallout Bible this army had divisions, which makes the huge differences in gears from one soldier to another quite strange) ;
- They are too different from the NCR patrolmen standards (High tech gear). BUT! If you give them the same gear as Patrols and Caravans guards, then you should make them different in another way, either by increasing their number or by making something fancy with them to make them look like an army (lines of soldiers, different gears according to the location of soldiers (All the RL in one side, all the laser rifle first, etc, f.e.), howitzer, etc, etc).
Masters army aren't stopping loot?
From what I've seen, they keep looting everything. The problem is also that they make the corpses explode, which makes it easier for the players to loot.
Masters army aren't stopping loot?
The Army encounter needs top be increased, it was just impossible to guess at a decent level for them to be set at, so I'll increse them based upon feedback. Willl also increase things such as Rangers, VC Patrol, Masters Army, Enclave Patrol, BoS patrol - so that they are actually a reasonable challenge, but also the only source of the higher tier stuff (which will disappear from the other encounter types.[/quote]
If by increase you mean the frequency..? Then I think you already encounter the Army ways too often, especially when they fight mutants.
As for where Masters stuff occurs, it comes from the Masters vault - I tried to have a logical spread of things - certain raider groups occur centred on an imagined raiders base for example. These groups are currently identical, but will change over time.
A yay for that!
Cents did get a little too close to the Hub though and should (hopefully!) be further away after an update.
The best would be to have large packs in the desert, and packs with less and less centaurs are you go further from Gordon's Gas Station.
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I see an NCR Rangers group, but no patrol. If there is a Patrol they'll should disappear, like Caravan encounters will eventually.
I have no problem increasing the Army encounter size, Gear can vary, Hunting rifle will largely be the standard issue.
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I see an NCR Rangers group, but no patrol. If there is a Patrol they'll should disappear, like Caravan encounters will eventually.
Guys on IRC said there wasn't, I must be mistaking them with VC patrols - my bad.
I have no problem increasing the Army encounter size, Gear can vary, Hunting rifle will largely be the standard issue.
I'm eager to see this in-game, then! :)
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Perhaps you think of the Hub Patrol?
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Perhaps you think of the Hub Patrol?
Hub patrol is fun when they with centaurs.
Just wait or run around from centaurs while other centaurs kill whole patrol, then run to corner of map luring centaurs and then loot bodies of dead cops. So I don't think Hub Patrol should ever meet centaurs, or Hub patrol should always win them.
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give hub patrol assault rifles, with 5mm JHP, and set their AI to "kamikaze burst" like SMG sulik in fo2. they will never lose to floaters again rofl! new assault rifle burst is best ingame for SG(as it SHOULD BE!!)
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Try a p90c, CAWs or Jackhammer :)
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I dont know if it is just me, but i have been encountering almost zero brahmin around the "noob" area (NCR, Junktown, Hub) and this absolutly sucks for new players, as we cant even make tents. was it intentional, or am i just unlucky?
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I dont know if it is just me, but i have been encountering almost zero brahmin around the "noob" area (NCR, Junktown, Hub) and this absolutly sucks for new players, as we cant even make tents. was it intentional, or am i just unlucky?
Yesterday i was looking for brahmins around NCR for half an hour, found nothing and eventually got killed by a group of players. Several minutes after this, my friend encountered "cows" just after he left NCR.
Later I`ve managed to gather all 10 hides in 15 minutes wandering solo through area near Hub.
Yes there is still chance to find brahmins around NCR. But maybe players should try looking around other cities, not only NCR.
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The remnants of the Master's Army, really shouldn't be popping up near Boneyard. I know the Cathedral was there but it was mostly full of humans, and in the lower sections only a few big guys. Also it makes it near impossible to get through there and get any XP, you ever try going up against a rocket launcher to get kills on molerats and dogs. Guess who's gonna kill them.
San Fran, EXTREMELY difficult to travel around!!! A friend and I were doing the train quest we're both 4th lvl, and he had 75% outdoorsman and we were getting encounters every 2 [tiny] dots. And the first was centaurs floaters and tough aliens, we managed to just barely get out, next was Mercs, who managed to 2 hit us from ACROSS the screen, well out of our attack range with their one Energy Pistol. From then on we respawned near San Fran, and hit EVERY encounter not a single one with the option to avoid. And until we passed Vault 13 it was ALL Centaur, Floater, Aliens. 2 more deaths later respawning [you guessed it] San Fran, we made it to NCR. I know the need for higher powered encounters but I really don't think they should be in the MAIN path between towns.
There is NO chance for low level people to get anywhere with how slow the travel is, and with even 75% OD, being stuck in encounters more than 5 times in a square. We couldn't even get the option to avoid RATS...
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Tbh i didn't have any trouble finding the brahmin hides i needed but then again i hate populated cities so i farmed them near modoc.
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The remnants of the Master's Army, really shouldn't be popping up near Boneyard. I know the Cathedral was there but it was mostly full of humans, and in the lower sections only a few big guys. Also it makes it near impossible to get through there and get any XP, you ever try going up against a rocket launcher to get kills on molerats and dogs. Guess who's gonna kill them.
Cathedral area is now full of mutants too. I explained a few posts ago:
As for where Masters stuff occurs, it comes from the Masters vault - I tried to have a logical spread of things - certain raider groups occur centred on an imagined raiders base for example. These groups are currently identical, but will change over time.
Mutants come from the Cathedral and go towards Mariposa in one direction and NCR (Where I imagine they are having a war with NCR - Hense the army encounter) and up to Lost Hills where they meet the BoS (I think I had some areas where BoS and Mutants overlapped :))
As for SF, there are plenty of areas where its pretty safe to be a level 4 guy. The entire map doesn't need to be built with them in mind.
The roll vs Outdoors might need to be looked at now that we have new difficulties in zones, but I doubt its far off.
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Hate to break it to you but we both took 2 different paths away from San Fran and it didn't matter they were ALL filled with higher power mobs. And now with the seriously messed world map travel and the sheer amount of random encounters the chances of you falling into an encounter with other players is some much more. And yeah you pop in and they get 2 if not more turns before you do, no matter your Perception or perks, and guess what you're dead.
As far as the Masters army. ok so they were created in Mariposa and sent to Cathedral one that was 70+ years ago, and 2 with the amount of them there, all they do is take away from players. Should the whole map be geared towards low lvls? No but something should be done to at least [Help] lower lvls be able to survive. 12 hours into game post wipe and I am only lvl 4 and have 1 pistol no caps and 15 rounds of ammo to my name. I know others are doing better and some are doing worse. There will always be a curve but at least before the wipe lowbies had a chance. You didn't dare go out and play without a weapon and armor, now that doesn't even matter.
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but something should be done to at least [Help] lower lvls be able to survive
We have, a large area of pretty easy encounters. Nothing is forcing you to go to SF, its dangerous there.
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Vault City Train quest, no other way to get the San Fran quest then to go there. Now sure the quest isn't forced on players. Just seems a little off to cut off some xp. I do understand the time and effort behind programming things and planning them. I do like a LOT of the stuff brought into the game. I am just giving feedback.
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I've done some farming near hub. I've hunted geckos and brahmins for exp and loot. Sometimes ghoul crazies fighting other encounters. It's good way to level up and gain wealth slowly but totally repetitive, unwastelandish and hasn't got anything to do with multiplayer.
Encounters need to be more linked to rest of the world. I'd even question the current encountering system. Why exactly do we have to travel back and forth the same squares to find some monsters to kill? What is it for anyone? Again I'd also question the way we have to fight random encounters. There's no reason to randomly force players to either click "no" in some window or run or fight monsters who do not serve any purpose.
So here are my suggestions for trying to solve these issues.
- Scrap all random encounters, yes all. No more random encountering. Travelling time is the only boundary you face while in worldmap.
- The world is filled with areas with varying size. These would be like "Hub borderlands" "Death Valley" and "San Fransisco ruins". These areas would be places where players get their gathering material, meet other players, faction patrols, animals and foes.
Player could choose to patrol these areas along with his npc faction's patrols. These patrols would attempt to eradicate robbers, enemy faction players and pest creatures. Player would be paid for each succesful patrol with money and reputation. Patrols would also provide cover for peaceful gatherers.
In the outer reaches of these hunting grounds where patrols do not visit more dangerous creatures would spawn, but also more interesting loot. Interesting loot would be only visible for people with certain skills, for example scientific person could be the only one to spot old nuclear shelter door. Only a good outdoorsman dude would spot tracks of some dangerous monster and then lure it out.
Problems with this would be excessive running (yes the constant running is silly), problems with PE and fov and powerbuilt pks hunting balanced builds. Also npc aggro is sometimes problematic. Npcs cannot be easily outrunned because they just keep following you no matter what and because the areas are large, patrols would get scrambled. In addition the largest of large areas would have to be really large or somehow randomly generate a new map when you enter a green grid to keep the feeling that you're in the middle of nowhere looking for lost tech to scavenge. It would be quite stupid if the place was teeming with groups of treasure hunters like it was goldrush in Klondike.
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Indeed, i agree that encounters should be reworked.
What if the system looked like that: All the mobs groups are being generated before players encounter them, they would have their AI and they would move on the map. There would be a limit for groups number, in example 50 molerat groups would be able to exist at a time. When a group is killed, it could respawn after some time just like players are now and move from a random place and then start their trip. The same way mobs and NPCs would encounter each other - meeting 2 groups fighting each other should be harder.
Players with high outdoorsman could track the group's heading direction. So they would be able to avoid the encounters - when they know the place the group is, they just move around it. If the player wanted to meet the group, he just walks there and is forced to encounter it after he gets close enough.
The more outdoorsman player has, the more accurate tracking is.
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I've grown to learn that the current set-up has... made more multiplayer encounters.
As it is, slow speed on World, right? This is making(forcing?) many people to localize in an area, which in a way is a good thing. I see the vendors actually being used, with stock changing quite a bit. I've also seen many encounters with players in it near the cities. With the slow speed, city locations are like a vaccuum, keeping the players nearer to the center. Walking out of ncr... its pretty easy to walk and find someone else. Sadly, most of my encounters have ended for the worse considering other player interaction. Which is good, in a way. Will know whom to shoot in the near future...
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There are too many encounters at a time, I mean, you geting encounte ever 2 dots is ludicrous, the Wasteland IS A WASTELAND, NOTA GOD DAMN FARMLAND BUBBLING WITH MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. I'm just saying encounters are way too common now, it doesn' realy seem like the wasteland now....
And Gatling, thats actually a bad thing, it doesn't make any sense to be happening in a "Wasteland" Although I do like the new encounters.
What I'm trying to say is with player and npc encounters happening so much more often, its not very memorable anymore. Or falloutish..
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yeah, how is there enough vegitation to sustain the hundreds of mauraders i encounter every mapsquare?
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YAY we get to know who we need to shoot. Later when.. we. actually get.. gear.. we can KEEP. Cool..... And yay more people in towns. So that we can know who to avoid when we get pick pocketed by 4 diff people in NCR while waiting for EVERY merchant to talk to cause they are all full. And travel in the wasteland, Yay now 2 lowbies can team up and PK people walking to Hub, Junktown, NCR.
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There are too many encounters at a time, I mean, you geting encounte ever 2 dots is ludicrous, the Wasteland IS A WASTELAND, NOTA GOD DAMN FARMLAND BUBBLING WITH MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. I'm just saying encounters are way too common now, it doesn' realy seem like the wasteland now....
And Gatling, thats actually a bad thing, it doesn't make any sense to be happening in a "Wasteland" Although I do like the new encounters.
What I'm trying to say is with player and npc encounters happening so much more often, its not very memorable anymore. Or falloutish..
As for speed, at 20% outdoors I was moving 1 square per 25 seconds. Outdoors at 50% its about 12 seconds. This would correspond to 1 encounter per square or 2 squares. Obviously this will increase as the skill goes higher.
It is no bad thing to require a) decent outdoors b) a decent outdoors on your group leader c) a car and (if I ever remember to get this done) d) increasing dog's outdoors so buying a dog merc gives you the ability to move round. Even a boost for outdoors given by the motion sensor is an option.
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Just got 3 Encounters in the SAME few dots of the SAME square. All with the same pc's in it and got killed. All forced, no chance to avoid with OD. Is that supposed to be effected by the 50% 12 seconds 1 encounter? Or are pc encounters on a different table?
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What if the system looked like that...
Problem with this is that fallout worldmap wasn't designed for any other activity than navigating. It's not very good basis to build any advanced features on.
There are too many encounters at a time, I mean, you geting encounte ever 2 dots is ludicrous, the Wasteland IS A WASTELAND, NOTA GOD DAMN FARMLAND BUBBLING WITH MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. I'm just saying encounters are way too common now, it doesn' realy seem like the wasteland now....
If we reduced encounters other people would complain about that. What you really don't like is that you're forced to deal with encounters when you don't want to.
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If we reduced encounters other people would complain about that. What you really don't like is that you're forced to deal with encounters when you don't want to.
That is not necessarily the case, I have 96% outdoorsman and I manage to skip 80% of encounters so its not rlly a problem but it makes the wasteland seem full of life whe its supposed to be devoid of it.
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And it seriously raises your encounters with players, which 98% of the time don't end well for nice people.
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Yep there is nothing as frustrating than entering the same encounter 3 times in a row, like it happened to me yesterday. Managed to run once - good for me, managed to run twice - good for me didn't manage to run for the third time - shame on me. I can understand the slow WM speed but for god's sake those encounters are proly not se necessary
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That is not necessarily the case, I have 96% outdoorsman and I manage to skip 80% of encounters so its not rlly a problem but it makes the wasteland seem full of life whe its supposed to be devoid of it.
But you still have to click the "no" option and that's dealing. What comes to wasteland being devoid you're probably right but it doesn't change the fact that even then encounters wouldn't have any reason to exist other than loot, exp and some meaningless difficulty for players to deal with every now and then. Eventually they serve no purpose at all when player is so powerful he doesn't need their loot or exps.
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As for player encounters, I've no idea if anything's changed. From the repeated mentioning of increased player encounters it sounds like it may be a TLA inherited thing. Will have to ask.
That is not necessarily the case, I have 96% outdoorsman and I manage to skip 80% of encounters so its not rlly a problem but it makes the wasteland seem full of life whe its supposed to be devoid of it.
How long does it take you to travel the length of the side of a WM square? Something like just under 10 seconds?
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As for player encounters, I've no idea if anything's changed. From the repeated mentioning of increased player encounters it sounds like it may be a TLA inherited thing. Will have to ask.
How long does it take you to travel the length of the side of a WM square? Something like just under 10 seconds?
17 seconds.
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On Mountains?
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On Mountains?
Around NCR which is desert.
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Thanks Solar for looking into the PC encounters, because the life around the cities is much more than before. Which makes sense in a wasteland most people would be near the main hubs. But PC encounters rarely end well in this game for people.
One outstanding problem with Random Encounters. [Good/Neutral] Npc's have this bad habit of not only missing with their automatic weapons but hitting people no where NEAR where they were shooting. I was visually 2+ hexs from a rogue in a random encounter with them and unity patrol, and in turn based most 2 rockets go off instantly and I'm dead along with the rogue that I was soon to be running away from. Before that NCR Army opens up on a group of Marauders, and a 90 degree turn and a few hexes away I take Bullets in the chest. Not good.
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I do not like posting when I'm pissed off but I can't help it at the moment. Marauders are STILL too much to be all over the place around NCR. On my way from the mine to NCR I got an encounter with them. After moving 8 <----- spaces TWICE they still managed to move into range and BURST me for over 100hp iwith one guy. How many AP do they have!??! Seems like it might be a bit too many... Even deathclaws lose an attack or two if they have to keep chasing you.
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Theres not been an update yet, so the change where their 10mm SMGs have been made more rare hasnt come on yet.
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And their ability to move 6 spaces and burst and a fair range?
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http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Critter_264
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Critter_263
AP - 8, they don't have BRoF.
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Well somethings up because like I said I had at least a 16 AP movement lead on them, and they not only caught up to range, but managed a burst also.
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Can somebody please explain me, how the hell can I spawn in a Random encounter 2 hexes away from ghoul crazies? Even for a lvl 10 char it might make problems, because ghoul crazies are unbelievable snipers! But it you spawn 2 hexes from them, even an low-tier armed lvl21 char might still have problems.
Besides, they are ghouls! Think of it, you can smell them from miles, they walk too slowly, to accidently run into them. Right now I wasted my 40 minutes of mining at gecko mine, this is ridiculous!
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you should probably avoid squares in which you've died to ghoul crazies, that is the only advice i can give you. the encounter is one of the only ways to get .223 from NPCs and it is sufficiently hard, make it any easier and .223 will be farmed like mad... even more.
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the encounter is one of the only ways to get .223 from NPCs and it is sufficiently hard, make it any easier and .223 will be farmed like mad... even more.
It is farmed like mad already, you just need a long range sniper in RT mode. Since Ghoul Crazies can only walk, you just need to keep a distance and shot them in the eyes. They are dead quickly then.
BTW. I noticed that the frequency of encounters was lowered. It's ok for me now :)
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you should probably avoid squares in which you've died to ghoul crazies, that is the only advice i can give you. the encounter is one of the only ways to get .223 from NPCs and it is sufficiently hard, make it any easier and .223 will be farmed like mad... even more.
The fact is that I'm pissed off by the respawn location. Now imagine this - You are walking in the desert, no mountains, no sandstorms, nothing, just desert. You keep going, you go, you go, you go, you go, and suddenly after realizing that you have walked 1 kilometer you see 6 radiated men with hunting rifles and smelling badly just 2 meters away from you. HOW THE FUCK DID YOU ENCOUNTER THEM?!?
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especially if you have 8 PE, 6LU and 120 outdoors skill. stuff like this shouldn't happen. ( unless you have 1PE )
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There is a NCR army vs Remnants encounter that yields easy loot :
http://img259.imageshack.us/f/ncrvsmuties.jpg
i found it there :
http://img138.imageshack.us/f/locationb.jpg
i don't know if it was intended, seems like very easy loot : M60 + 120 7.62 ammo, 4 hunting rifles + 80 223 ammo, a bunch of radios and a flamer from dead mutie.
EDIT : just noticed it was mentioned in original post by izual... well nice screenshot i guess.
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There is a NCR army vs Remnants encounter that yields easy loot :
http://img259.imageshack.us/f/ncrvsmuties.jpg
i found it there :
http://img138.imageshack.us/f/locationb.jpg
i don't know if it was intended, seems like very easy loot : M60 + 120 7.62 ammo, 4 hunting rifles + 80 223 ammo, a bunch of radios and a flamer from dead mutie.
EDIT : dunno why, the img thing wasn't working on those
EDIT : just noticed it was mentioned in original post by izual... well nice screenshot i guess.
The mutants don't stop you looting?
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no no, that's a classic : let the muties loot their share, like 1 body per mutant, then you can loot anything left. Muties didn't turn hostile, no message.
Moreover many foes had been blown up with rockets, and their stuff was just lying on the ground, the muties didnt take it then.
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Ah, I see. At least we now have a clear problem to fix :)
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Ah, I see. At least we now have a clear problem to fix :)
Alright but lemme ask something: what's the point of whole vs encounters other than not give stuff to lone wastelanders who encounter them? Right now they have been mildly exciting because you never know what the winning side might miss.
What comes to vs encounters, another issue is that sometimes one member of the fighting sides decides that the unprovoking player is the top priority target and starts chasing him, someone starts to chase this chaser and soon everyone is running after player. Sometimes shooting this chaser makes him turn around and fight his previous enemies. Pretty weird behaviour.
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hum the problem is people have m60s with lifetime supply of ammo already =/
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Should seriously consider the effect of AOE weapons having been killed more than once by a [Good/Neutral] Npc, who was firing at someone near me, or even several spaces away and at an angle.
ANOTHER forced encounter with pk's no chance lost everything... OD 110%.
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Near Broken Hills I can kill any raider at encounter without payback from other
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Near Broken Hills I can kill any raider at encounter without payback from other
Yay?
So some of them are working.
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The only Raiders with any team ID set are the ones around the Khans base. When the different raiders groups are differentiated then setting them as proper teams seems like a good idea.
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Solar, nothing changed with ncr army encouter and also Atom was wrong, there is cooldown for some encouters ;p
btw. lsw is still bugged :
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At least something changed with it, both in the fix to having hunting rifles in hand and the mistake where the FN FAL guy has 7.62mm in hand.
If those things changed then the other things should have gone in too. There should be about 2x 15-30% chance of an M60 and 1x 15-30% chance of an LSW. Will have to check it out.
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The fact is that I'm pissed off by the respawn location. Now imagine this - You are walking in the desert, no mountains, no sandstorms, nothing, just desert. You keep going, you go, you go, you go, you go, and suddenly after realizing that you have walked 1 kilometer you see 6 radiated men with hunting rifles and smelling badly just 2 meters away from you. HOW THE FUCK DID YOU ENCOUNTER THEM?!?
Makes me think, Why not make some encounters easier to avoid? and some harder to avoid? for example avoiding encounters in the mountains should be harder than on the desert (if that isn't already the case) But also it should be easy to avoid a group of crazies, but be much harder to evade for example a pack of radscorpions or raiders (assuming they are smart enough to ambush you)
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This would be reflected in the chance to discover an Encounter.
Each square has a list of Encounters, then each one has a chance. So if you're looking round a square with:
Encounter 1 - 5%
Encounter 2 - 5%
Encounter 3 - 50%
Then each "test" for if you get an Encounter theres a 60% chance you will get one in total, 50% chance of Encounter 3 and 5% chance it'll be #1 or #2.
Then zone difficulty plays its part in if you can skip them, harder zones are harder to skip.
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Solar, nothing changed with ncr army encouter and also Atom was wrong, there is cooldown for some encouters ;p
Cooldown for encounters is not used anymore.
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This would be reflected in the chance to discover an Encounter.
Each square has a list of Encounters, then each one has a chance. So if you're looking round a square with:
Encounter 1 - 5%
Encounter 2 - 5%
Encounter 3 - 50%
Then each "test" for if you get an Encounter theres a 60% chance you will get one in total, 50% chance of Encounter 3 and 5% chance it'll be #1 or #2.
Then zone difficulty plays its part in if you can skip them, harder zones are harder to skip.
Ok, so its not entirely dependent on "The Square" Itself the encounters in it seperately have their own difficulty?
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The square has difficulty, the Encounters have a seperate chance of "triggering"
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Is outdoorsman skill linear with the chance to avoid an encounter?
By this I mean, is there a huge gap between 99% Outdoorsman and 100% Outdoorsman (which is what you said is needed to have a good chance to skip "easy" encounters), or would 99% and 100% be almost exactly the same?
You also said 100% outdoorsman to avoid easy encounters, and 180% to avoid the hardest encounters; what level would I need to get the highest chance to avoid any mid-level encounter, if such a thing exists. Or is there just a big gap between 100% outdoorsman and 180% outdoorsman, as well?
And lastly, would Ghoul Crazies be easy, mid-level, or hard encounter types? What outdoorsman would I need to be able to be able to best avoid those? Thanks. Edit: Okay I posted this after you posted your above topic, so I didn't get that part.
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And lastly, would Ghoul Crazies be easy, mid-level, or hard encounter types? What outdoorsman would I need to be able to be able to best avoid those? Thanks.
Depends on what square they are - its the squares which decide how difficult it is to skip.
Is outdoorsman skill linear with the chance to avoid an encounter?
By this I mean, is there a huge gap between 99% Outdoorsman and 100% Outdoorsman (which is what you said is needed to have a good chance to skip "easy" encounters), or would 99% and 100% be almost exactly the same?
You also said 100% outdoorsman to avoid easy encounters, and 180% to avoid the hardest encounters; what level would I need to get the highest chance to avoid any mid-level encounter, if such a thing exists. Or is there just a big gap between 100% outdoorsman and 180% outdoorsman, as well?
Its pretty linear, so somewhere between 100 -> 180% (These are rough figures, don't treat them as gospel) will lie your mid level difficulty value.
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This would be reflected in the chance to discover an Encounter.
Each square has a list of Encounters, then each one has a chance. So if you're looking round a square with:
Encounter 1 - 5%
Encounter 2 - 5%
Encounter 3 - 50%
Then each "test" for if you get an Encounter theres a 60% chance you will get one in total, 50% chance of Encounter 3 and 5% chance it'll be #1 or #2.
Then zone difficulty plays its part in if you can skip them, harder zones are harder to skip.
How it work when you can meet a player? What are the chances to meet him and what decide of difficulty to avoid it?
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Its exactly the same, you test for an encounter - but then if theres another encounter already taking place near by you have a chance of going into that one instead.
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I think with the more Wastelanders in the Encounter, it should decrease the ease of finding it.
1. There is probably combat going on, taking place already as the secondary(or tertiary, etc.) Wastelander walks upon it.
2. The groups the Wastelander sees is sometimes 2, 3, 5+ Wastelanders camping in it right now. Be nice if..
+1 player = -5 % to see,
+2 = -10%
+3 = -20%
.... etc (with a cumulative drop in difficult as more join)
The reason for this is players mob into TB encounters near cities and wait... and really, it should be EASIER to see a mob of people out there. So instead of using the players playing any difficulty in being found, it is based entirely on the base encounter (how it is atm). All pks have to do is drive in their taxi, find the biggest/hardest encounter then camp it. Which I Have seen done. Several times. They are like the new TB Caravan traps outside NCR.
Edit: It should be raised according to Additional numbers of Bodies, as I forgot to account for Mercs/Slaves. Which I have also seen done. A lvl 21 will automatically lose if he falls into a fight with 3 players +10 merc/slaves. The swarm, with the NPCs lol-crits, generally will prevent any sort of escape.
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Edit: It should be raised according to Additional numbers of Bodies, as I forgot to account for Mercs/Slaves. Which I have also seen done. A lvl 21 will automatically lose if he falls into a fight with 3 players +10 merc/slaves. The swarm, with the NPCs lol-crits, generally will prevent any sort of escape.
You've been spying on me!!!!!! :P
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so by this logic, a solo player camping an encounter will have a much higher chance of finding targets?
i totally agree with that. reward the risk, punish the carebears. (not real carebears, we love you.. im talking about the punks who hang out in groups of 6-10 near NCR and hub, ganking noobs, and then they have the gall to call themselves pvpers)
i must say with more than a few hundred hours of solo pvp experience since all the wipes, it is most certainly "not worth it" outside of extreme luck situations to go pvping solo. the chance for death is simply too high - and most players are concerned about 'staying in the black', rather than simply having fun for the sake of it, and thusly they congregate towards larger groups where the risk is lower but the reward is still the same.
i really think it would be a great idea to make it so anything over 3 players has a very low chance of being discovered. and vice versa, in a large group, you should have a much larger chance to encounter other large groups instead of solo and small group players.
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Much higher chance of running into players, combined with only running into similar size groups. Loners will only run into loners, level 5s will run into people +/- 2 levels of themselves. Once two groups have ran into each other, nobody else can join.
That's the only way I can see running into other players in the wasteland being an interesting experience.