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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Ned Logan on August 31, 2010, 12:56:59 am
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If you voted "Yes..." please explain why.
As far as I understand the changes, the client side (NameColorizing.txt) name colorizing would only show on your team members...
Why do this change?
After this change, everyone who doesn't shoot on sight is at huge disadvantage. Before the change, the gangs could share their lists of enemies or their members. Now there is no way for us to construct those lists, so we can only try to memorize the names (like a telephone number book)...
The server side green/red coloring is no good, because:
1) it is per char
2) it is not shareable
3) often you don't manage to color the person (he is not standing still or is out of your view - often when you are lying on the ground dead)
So now there is no way to make something like outlaw lists possible...
Combined with no global karma system, which I don't like as much as I hate this changeit is even more safe to play as a PK gang...
Yes, that is definitely what this server needs - alienate it's anti-PK playerbase...
Do you want us to start "roleplaying raiders" too? I would if it wouldn't be so hypocritical of me...
Definitely a good step 2238 team, now with FOnline SDK out in any day... I applaud you...
(As a note, I think pretty much all the other changes with the update seem good to me, but this is just a bit too strong poison for an otherwise tasty dish...)
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I just don't understand why ANYONE would like this change. Has there been any word on why it was done? It's not abusable, as far as I can tell.
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I liked how it used to be with colorizing list. I can not remember every name of people trying to rob me so not making it shareable, even between local character, its very inconvenient. Also, I really liked the idea of an outlaw list, that way at least you would know that being a cold blooded murderer could have some global consequences.
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Since namecolorizing now works only for your faction, why not just colorize all members of your faction - lot less micromanagement related to preparing and downloading it.
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Since namecolorizing now works only for your faction, why not just colorize all members of your faction - lot less micromanagement related to preparing and downloading it.
Well really.. just make all members of your faction (+NPC faction if you're in NPC faction) by teal or blue or something color.
And hostile (orange or something) color for all names that belongs to gang that trying to capture town and this gang isn't yours.
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It's still not completely clear to me how the new changes work.
Why not colorize names based upon the faction terminal?
A colour for faction members, a colour for friends and a colour for enemies of the faction based upon the faction terminal (assuming it's finally user friendly).
Off course this would only be visible for members of your faction as you can be added as friend to a lot of factions.
To me it's a better solution than using namecolorizing.
Changes would be immediate this way which is very convenient when it comes to new members and people who have been kicked from the faction.
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A poll won't change anything so what's the point? We have to test this game, not to complain about "it was better before". Who knows, maybe it's part of a bigger plan? I liked Namecolorizing in some way, but I also disliked it in some other ways - we had it, now we haven't got it, let's see how it works.
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I just don't understand why ANYONE would like this change. Has there been any word on why it was done? It's not abusable, as far as I can tell.
Current system is unfair and unconvenient. You need to edit your name colorizing. There are no villans with -1000 or more overall karma displayed as red, it can be everyone. In fallout it did matter, the current system is unfallouty. For big factions it doesnt matter, for everyone else - yes
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Who knows, maybe it's part of a bigger plan?
Any information to share ?
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A poll won't change anything so what's the point? We have to test this game, not to complain about "it was better before". Who knows, maybe it's part of a bigger plan? I liked Namecolorizing in some way, but I also disliked it in some other ways - we had it, now we haven't got it, let's see how it works.
I know I can't undo the damage, but at least I want to know "Why?!"...
You shoul know, I was planning to make a web aplication for players to manage their friends/enemies/whetever (Wordpress-style-software) and to generate the NameColorizing.txt from that...
It is because of no such ease-of-use support, that the color lists wheren't updated often, there was no notification for example that someone has been added to the TTTLA criminal records... This might have resulted in deaths of some people who might have not deserved it, combined with PK propaganda, wrecking the color list and anti-PK image...
I already wrote a post suggesting how a name colorizing should work, even how it is realism-wise, please have a read:
Ok, been thinking about the mugshot thing a lot - Fallout world resembles old american wild west a lot, so I am gonna draw parallels from that...
On the wild west, there WANTED posters of outlaws, usually with a price on their head. This isn't really applicable to FOnline universe, since there is no single authority like sheriffs - outlaws have their WANTED posters too.
On the other hand in wild west there were numerous places which propagated themselves to visitors and customers. The analogy to FOnline isn't too clear in this case - it is practially impossible to maintain a public place, like a shop, bar or a town - they change ownership too often. So instead of places, we have faces - if you can recognize TTTLA members guarding a town, you may consider it safe, if you are not an outlaw to them.
These two features today are provided by name colorizing.
Using the innovative system we discussing this feature would be provided in game, by pipboy. Imagine pipboys were a very common accessory in the pre-war world of Fallout (they had energy weapons and power armors after all), much like iPhones, Android phones and whatever are becoming today. Since the war probably has wiped out all the satelites on the orbit, we are kinda disconnected, have to use radio etc...
So there would be an pipboy management agency lets say in NCR which not only sells and repairs pipboys but manages data which users can download - sort of digital library, poor wastelanders internet. This agency would manage the mugshots... for a fee you could submit your own depiction with name to the database so everyone recognized you.
Or, out in the wild you could take a depiction of someone (kinda like those angel/devil coloring buttons). Whether the person introduced to you or not, the agency won't accept your depiction and associated information with it - like name, name coloring etc, because stuff is relative, they have no reason to trust you.
Factions and individuals could have accounts in the database where they could manage the depictions and their associated information. It would get really complex when dealing with distrubiting and merging these data... I really don't think creating such complex in game system is a good way to spend time as a developer.
So I think best would be just that players keep their name coloring and name records in their pipboy and it could be exported and loaded from file like NameColoring.txt now is. That file would contain internal server ID of the character, it's known name (optional) and coloring (optional).
This would be nice way for gangs to manage lists of their members, friends and enemies, while not breaking the original idea.
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Well, then I'm going to tell you the reasons why I disliked it (the reasons why I liked it, I think you already know them :P). A brand new player, new to the game, is given by his gang (or by anyone) a list of the "bad people" and the "good people". Not even faction-based, just a database of the shoot-on-sight players. Another thing, it made big alliances easier, and I hate that.
Now I'm not trying to defend this change, because I have no opinion about it (My personal use of namecolorizing was basically the same as the game allows us to do with green/red names). But I highlighted what was bad with it.
The way I see it, namecolorizing would be automatically filled, faction-based. Like, each faction gets an automatic color, and you don't have to do anything else (you could maybe change the color for each faction, but that's all). But I don't think it'll ever happen :p
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What is disappointing with this change is that now, it will be impossible to know Who is Who.
It's a kind of identity loss.
And especially gangs identity.
Indeed, Namecolorizing had the advantage of compensating the "everyone is a clone" of fonline.
When we killed/were killed by a band and fought side by side with a band, we knew its IDENTITY: RDA, Rogues, BBS, VSB, Hawks, CND...
Now, it will be just: "Aw, Today? we were killed by guys and we killed some, that's all"...
But well, nevermind, I'm sure there is an advantage in this change that I have not noticed yet :)
Apart from this detail: BIG APPLAUSE FOR THE GOOD WORK DEV!
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A brand new player, new to the game, is given by his gang (or by anyone) a list of the "bad people" and the "good people"
And this is a bad thing ??
Its like the gang teach him who is ennemy and who is not....
Less big alliance ? Okay lets buy a common base like red dots....
Its becoming much more easier now than before to act like a raider since keeping track of someone and share this information with others will become harder... (manual tag ? rofl)
No... it cant be like this... sure devs have something else... do you ?
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I consider pro arguments for that change very poor, given the loss.
Maybe it means that the next update will bring gang tags or something like that. I hope so. I realy do.
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I think that this change will encourage more PK in the game. If you don't know what is the faction of the guy in front of you you will just shoot before being shot.
With namecolorizing we can identify raiders gangs and shoot them on sight before they attack everyone.
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I think that this change will encourage more PK in the game. If you don't know what is the faction of the guy in front of you you will just shoot before being shot.
With namecolorizing we can identify raiders gangs and shoot them on sight before they attack everyone.
exactly, I dont like this system (I'm PK and I dont need NameColorizing but I like to color some people just for me on red and to see it on every my character and then kill them everywhere even in guarded towns ^^)
this new system of NC.txt is little stupid, now how can Lawyers or VSB (and other "anti-pk") be anti player killer if they dont have colorized enemies to red?
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now how can Lawyers or VSB (and other "anti-pk") be anti player killer if they dont have colorized enemies to red?
Then I think we will have to be killed first then try to tag the ennemy when he is looting the corpse (according that the killer won't wait until corpse disapear). We expect to loose a lot of stuff until until every ennemy is tagged :D
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Then I think we will have to be killed first then try to tag the ennemy when he is looting the corpse (according that the killer won't wait until corpse disapear). We expect to loose a lot of stuff until until every ennemy is tagged :D
tagging is slow and only for one character ;/ (and player can run away if he dont wanna loot you ;p) I want back fucking normal NameColorizing ;p
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Well one sure thing is: i will really shot first more often: any doubt about someone and I kill him, because I have no way to be sure to remember each fucking name, particulary those cyrilics names.
Previous NC was perfect, I don't know why they've done this. For big alliance no problem: like chosen soldier in only one base, or everyone gather to manually tag before attack. Just annoying to tag PKs.
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well this + low stuff boost makes PKing much easier, it wont stop making big alliances, this colorizing change is only step backward.
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Solution to pros and cons of namecolorizing would be an automated system like either the factions will have tags or colors before them, maybe even assigned by GMs or automatical one based on one like jan0s1k, so the person that kill you gets red, the one that heals you gets green
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I think the previous system was almost perfect - I would only totally remove the server name colorizing, and that you could not only colour peoples names, but also display a colored text (like faction name for example) above their name...
This change just makes no sense... we are gonna make alliance anyway. The only result is, that we will more shoot people who we "think" or "remember" that they are PKs.
So in the end, common players and begginers would pay for this change the most, especially if they pick a name similar to some PKs...
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The previous version was awfull and I am glad they changed it.
It was encouraging Metagaming. How should a new, freshly created character in THE FALLOUT WORLD know who is his enemy and who not? Current ingame system is fine. If you want to mark someone as "bad" or "good", do it via the ingame system. It's enough. Another issue solved - using out of game "programs" is gone. Use ingame features. If you want to mark someone as "bad", use either your brain to remember him/her or use said ingame feautures. Its an awesome change. :)
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If you want to mark someone as "bad" or "good", do it via the ingame system. It's enough. Another issue solved - using out of game "programs" is gone. Use ingame features. If you want to mark someone as "bad", use either your brain to remember him/her or use said ingame feautures. Its an awesome change. :)
its not enough, and its stupid change... ingame feature is stupid too, because you can mark someone only when he is staying, you cannot mark him while moving... yeah, yeah, "really awesome", you cant "remember" (mark) moving people... simply "awesome"...
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A poll won't change anything so what's the point? We have to test this game, not to complain about "it was better before". Who knows, maybe it's part of a bigger plan? I liked Namecolorizing in some way, but I also disliked it in some other ways - we had it, now we haven't got it, let's see how it works.
Ehm this "we had it now we don't" argument really sucks Izual :D. We had full drop for over a year now so why don't we "don't have it" for one month for example? And there are MUCH MUCH MORE interesting "on/off" features that could be tested this way other than namecolorizing. FOnline lacks social features that gives your avatar and your gang identity. Here you are just blue copycat of the guy before you and he is the copycat of the guy before him and he...
There is nothing like gang tags, tattoos and other stuff that could help us distinguish the enemy or friend (and there were some very nice ideas about all of this). But you decide to limit something as essential as recognizing who is who just to same faction? Well with every wipe so far you always made ton of nice changes but you also always have to step into big pile of shit with changes like this. Namecolorizing is not great because of metagaming. Thats for sure, but disabling it is not the answer. Integrate it into the game is. So we could use our faction terminal with pipboy to store our enemies names/colors instead of namecolorizing.txt. And we should be able to share this list with other players through their pipboys or maybe also through radio etc. Simply cut the metagaming crap through ingame features. But this? Its just one huge 3 wipe long leap to the history that will bring no good for casual and anti-PK gamers.
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This is not social game. This is wasteland survival MMORPG game.
If you want social then try Second Life or something else shit, but stop talking bullshit!
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This change just makes no sense... we are gonna make alliance anyway. The only result is, that we will more shoot people who we "think" or "remember" that they are PKs.
+1
Is there a problem to make battle chars named JohnXYZ, SmithZYX, John Smith YXZ ? Factions will remain recognizable, even if it looks stupid.
And, however I don't like to complain and to discourage devs with this, faction management system wasn't improved (nothing in changelog about it, didn't check myself yet though) to have more than one base for one faction name. If we gonna have more than one base (and we will for sure), we will meet only problems with our NC.
Whiners won. Again. At least I hope they are happy now.
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This is not social game. This is wasteland survival MMORPG game.
If you want social then try Second Life or something else shit, but stop talking bullshit!
Dude by social I mean everything that goes under "user friendly" such as easier chat with radios integrated into the pipboy or something like this (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3504.0) etc. And namecolorizing definitely belongs to the social part of the game. So please stop being an ass with all those comments "this is not quake ; wasteland is harsh ; go play sims" etc because they only show how great ***** you are. If you want FOnline to be true wasteland with feeling like its from 90s with all those clumsy features, then why don't you take your pen and paper, call few of your friends on skype and then rock and role as badass road warrior that you "truly" are. But when we talk about clumsy features, then FOnline definitely beats original Fallouts in it.
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yeah sorry bout that..
I just angry, because i cannot play FOnline..
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The previous version was awfull and I am glad they changed it.
It was encouraging Metagaming. How should a new, freshly created character in THE FALLOUT WORLD know who is his enemy and who not? Current ingame system is fine. If you want to mark someone as "bad" or "good", do it via the ingame system. It's enough. Another issue solved - using out of game "programs" is gone. Use ingame features. If you want to mark someone as "bad", use either your brain to remember him/her or use said ingame feautures. Its an awesome change. :)
Well...i stopped playing anyway (got kinda boring without any real content) but i can only say this. Changing features and keep the change even if many players dont like it (for obvious reasons) and say "live with it, its better now" will sooner or later only result in empty servers. If developing a game for nobody is the goal of this project, go ahead.
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I loved the old NC but I agree with Izual that we have to test the game without any NC, at least to be sure that we don't like it. Changes can be changed :)
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True. First test then talk.
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The previous version was awfull and I am glad they changed it.
It was encouraging Metagaming. How should a new, freshly created character in THE FALLOUT WORLD know who is his enemy and who not? Current ingame system is fine. If you want to mark someone as "bad" or "good", do it via the ingame system. It's enough. Another issue solved - using out of game "programs" is gone. Use ingame features. If you want to mark someone as "bad", use either your brain to remember him/her or use said ingame feautures. Its an awesome change. :)
I agree on the point of the non-sense of a PK-list (which I personnaly do not use because even if I see a man red, I try to speak before shooting => I know it can be expensive in gear but generally it works fine)
BUt I repeat myself because I think it's crucial:
IDENTITY
That's what make sense to an mmorpg world!
Name colorizing has the big advantage of giving an Identity to the "everyone is a clone effect" of fonline.
You DO know that Post-apo worlds and FALLOUT world is based on gang's memberships!
It is the base of such worlds!
In post-apo movies/stories, a group is reconizable by a common sign that make you say: "Ah ok, they are the Hells'Angels"
Examples:
-Each member wears an eagle on his jacket
-Each member wears a top hat and paintings on his face
-...
Well I'm sure you understand my point.
Those features are impossible in fonline.
SO, to compensate for "everyone is a clone feature", you give a color to recognize a gang
Color will be the eagle on the jacket
Color will be the top hat and paintings on face
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In game u can have nick whith "the eagle on the jacket" like VSB_Soldier for example.
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I'll personnally wait for the real NPC factions before complaining. Maybe they'll come with tags, for example.
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True. First test then talk.
Afaik we have been there done that. And guess what, every 3rd suggestion was about some player recognition system. I just don't get what should be the positive outcome of this? Paranoia effect?
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I just don't get what should be the positive outcome of this? Paranoia effect?
Or maybe let the server side colorize players ("soon")
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I'm really sick of this. When beeing PKed with my crafter before wipe i at least had the satisfaction knowing i could possibly take revenge some day, give the name to PK hunters etc.
Also, I liked the diplomatic posibillity i had concerning gangs and alliances.
This change is 100% bullcrap. At least all chars of a player should share one colorizing file, but it would still be worse than before wipe.
This will result in some new 'third party tool', nothing more. And in THIS case i would totally understand every player doing so.
What is disappointing with this change is that now, it will be impossible to know Who is Who.
It's a kind of identity loss.
And especially gangs identity.
Indeed, Namecolorizing had the advantage of compensating the "everyone is a clone" of fonline.
When we killed/were killed by a band and fought side by side with a band, we knew its IDENTITY: RDA, Rogues, BBS, VSB, Hawks, CND...
Now, it will be just: "Aw, Today? we were killed by guys and we killed some, that's all"...
But well, nevermind, I'm sure there is an advantage in this change that I have not noticed yet :)
Apart from this detail: BIG APPLAUSE FOR THE GOOD WORK DEV!
I think that this change will encourage more PK in the game. If you don't know what is the faction of the guy in front of you you will just shoot before being shot.
With namecolorizing we can identify raiders gangs and shoot them on sight before they attack everyone.
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Mrockatansky, the update removes the possibility at taking someone's else list of hostile players, but you can still tag the player red/green if you want ingame without an external file(NameColorizing). So you can still remember the guy and take revenge on him in future :)
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Mrockatansky, the update removes the possibility at taking someone's else list of hostile players, but you can still tag the player red/green if you want ingame without an external file(NameColorizing). So you can still remember the guy and take revenge on him in future :)
If the other one is not too dumb and don't stop moving just near his dead body, no he totally can't.
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We could then add some shortcut for tagging players.
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We could then add some shortcut for tagging players.
In that case, it's a kind of Namecolorizing, but just more annoying to do.
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So basicly this is about some PKs beeing butthurt over TTTLAs list wich results in having taken away a useful feature?
Good God. m(
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No, it's cause we made a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE Alliance, so no one was able to defeat us.
That was unendurable, you know. ;D
For the record, I'm kidding.
But I still think Name Colorizing should be like it was before, cause it's now impossible to survive for someone who wants to fight against "raiders".
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Name Colorizing is supporting good deeds even from the grave! I registered a new char under a name, which as I found out after login thanks to NC, belonged to some poor member of The Crazy Barbarians... so I deleted the char, even though TCB are enemies... name stealing is so low...
A nice illustration of right 2 utmost fails of the last update/wipe: NC change and no name stealing prevention ;)
No need to discuss it any further...
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It takes away various tactical, diplomatic and RP options. It's plain stupid.
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new a NemeColoraise was put to death by a AntiPK