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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: DonGizmo on August 23, 2010, 09:29:59 pm
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Hello, i heard that Fast shot trait should be little reworked. But i dont exactly know how.
1) burst-only weapons (non aiming weapons: Avenger, LSW,..) will not be affected with this trait (so P90 will get bonus to signle shot 3 AP, and burst 4 AP and Abenger will need stil 7AP)
or
2) every weapon that can aim and burst, will get bonus -1 AP needed to shot non aimend and non bursted shot? (So P90 will get bonus to single shot: 3 AP, but burst will be still 5AP)
Thank you.
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2.
3 AP for single, 5 for burst. As Solar said.
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2.
3 AP for single, 5 for burst. As Solar said.
Thank you.
And second question is:
I understand, that this will little nerf Big guns, but it will not add any visible bonus. I think and this trait will be useless then. Dont you think? How many players use single non-aimed shots.
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Thank you.
And second question is:
I understand, that this will little nerf Big guns, but it will not add any visible bonus to single shot non-aim weapons/builds i think and this trait will be useless then. Dont you think? How many players use single non-aimed shots.
This is useful in turn based PvE with plasma pistol, 14mm pistol, needler, etc.
Solar said it'll be useful with laser rifle, because you'll have more DPS.
Pistol with 2 AP per shot isn't that good in RT, because of shooting animation, but laser rifle may be will do something good.
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turbo plasma rifle anyone? hehehehe.. the dps on that would be insane if you got it down to 3ap/shot with 18 AP build... not even sure its ingame though :(
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This is useful in turn based PvE with plasma pistol, 14mm pistol, needler, etc.
Solar said it'll be useful with laser rifle, because you'll have more DPS.
Pistol with 2 AP per shot isn't that good in RT, because of shooting animation, but laser rifle may be will do something good.
So this game balance is here (i dont want to trol) to balance Turn Based part of the game.. And no Real Time. It is opposite that some devs or gm told (that they can imagine Fonline without Turn Based).
a) I think that build with aim is more powerfull than without, so making build without aim and without bonus to burst is only waste of ammo (=statistic)
b) in TB, there is always better aiming, because you have plenty of time to click to your enemy and aim to body part you need => so the impact will be almost zero
c) in RT, this change will not solve anything, because you will not do damage bigger than your bursting or aiming enemies
So the only reason i see is to nerf big guns and depreciate this trait, becase anybody, who could count up 1+1 will not take this trait. Am i wrong?
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Well Solar added also that metal armor will be less resistant to energy (laser, or laser and plasma), I think it was made after changing Fast Shot, so laser/(plasma) with new trait will be more effective, than it's now.
"New class added" I can't understand, because this class can exist even now and today, but I'm not sure someone uses fast shot with laser rifle, probably with less resistant metal armor it'll be effective, so yes, then new Fast Shot trait can be used with it.
Fast Shot + BRoF = 3 AP for laser rifle, so you can make "bursts" with it with high agility or on jet and it'll even do damage to metal/CA armors.
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Well Solar added also that metal armor will be less resistant to energy (laser, or laser and plasma), I think it was made after changing Fast Shot, so laser/(plasma) with new trait will be more effective, than it's now.
"New class added" I can't understand, because this class can exist even now and today, but I'm not sure someone uses fast shot with laser rifle, probably with less resistant metal armor it'll be effective, so yes, then new Fast Shot trait can be used with it.
Fast Shot + BRoF = 3 AP for laser rifle, so you can make "bursts" with it with high agility or on jet and it'll even do damage to metal/CA armors.
The problem is see is this:
1) TB with this trait will not be better than with aim
2) Single shot weapons in PvP are good enough because: criticals and knock downs and knock outs. Without possibility of at least knock down (resuld of eye or head shot), every enemy aiming sniper will get them on ground before they will be able to use their max AP shots.
3) If they nerf knock down too, snipers will get huge disadvantage against biggunners and even biggunners will have less bursts, they will safely kill snipers in 12 seconds instead of in 8 sec (8 sec = time to full AP refresh) => this will imba BG and Snipers and they are more balanced now than they ever were
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Well Solar added also that metal armor will be less resistant to energy (laser, or laser and plasma), I think it was made after changing Fast Shot, so laser/(plasma) with new trait will be more effective, than it's now.
"New class added" I can't understand, because this class can exist even now and today, but I'm not sure someone uses fast shot with laser rifle, probably with less resistant metal armor it'll be effective, so yes, then new Fast Shot trait can be used with it.
Fast Shot + BRoF = 3 AP for laser rifle, so you can make "bursts" with it with high agility or on jet and it'll even do damage to metal/CA armors.
On jet, you say.
Have you seen reworked drugs system?
I.E. jet gives +2AP, -2 strengh and -2 something else what I can't remember.
Other drugs are fucked up same like jet, some more, some less, anyway now it coming era of clean characters.
And nerfing fast shot will cause useless of this trait, backing to what said Ravenous: how many times you've seen a big pack of players in metal mkII during PvP (like TC)?
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You may call this fix like that:
Now BGers will need to be druggy or else he can't make 2 bursts in a row, or... take x2 Action Boy perks...
Drugs will be changed somehow after wipe too, so probably being druggy will be not like it is now.
3 bursts in a row with BG will be impossible or you'll need again take x2 Action Boys and eat x2 Jet.
I didn't take in accound Cookies.
That's what will be changed.
Have you seen reworked drugs system?
No. ;p
Any links? ^_^
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Taking 2 jets will force bigguner with avenger to eat also 2 buffouts and 2 psychos and drink 2 beers what it's the most stupid thing I've ever heard.
Do you know how long takes eating so many drugs? Especially when you know that the opponent is attacking?
It all will make BG useless at fights.
About new drugs system: I can't find it on our forum but I can only say that all of drugs are hardly nerfed, so hard that a clean character will be better than drugged.
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Taking 2 jets will force bigguner with avenger to eat also 2 buffouts and 2 psychos and drink 2 beers what it's the most stupid thing I've ever heard.
What source you use, please.
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Look up, edited post.
Also I'll paste it here if I found it tomorrow. Going sleep now.
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Any ideas for "crafter" trait of some sort? I'm just curious.
I found this somewhere, it's about drug effects:
Jet: +2 AP, -1 Ch, -2 Str, -15% DR
Psycho: +15% DR, +1 Str, +1 En, -2 Pe
Buffout: +2 Str, +2 En, -1 Ag
Mentats: +2 Int, +2 Ch
Beer: +5% DR, +1 Ch, -2 Pe
Nukacola: +1 Ag
Cigarettes: +1 Pe, -1 Ch
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I found this somewhere, it's about drug effects:
Jet: +2 AP, -1 Ch, -2 Str, -15% DR
Psycho: +15% DR, +1 Str, +1 En, -2 Pe
Buffout: +2 Str, +2 En, -1 Ag
Mentats: +2 Int, +2 Ch
Beer: +5% DR, +1 Ch, -2 Pe
Nukacola: +1 Ag
Cigarettes: +1 Pe, -1 Ch
Thanks, looks like it's era of beer for quests ^_^ if it'll be easy to get as it is now. And mentats+beer=+6 CH.. nice, for all quests ;p
So 1 CH is the must.
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*Facepalm.jpg* WTF are u going to do? there IS a ballance already. lets cut all perks (and traits) and say that "This is better for ballance". remember when BROF wasnt working at all? wanna return to that times? Or maybe lets return TLA crafting system?
I found this somewhere, it's about drug effects:
Jet: +2 AP, -1 Ch, -2 Str, -15% DR
Psycho: +15% DR, +1 Str, +1 En, -2 Pe
Buffout: +2 Str, +2 En, -1 Ag
Mentats: +2 Int, +2 Ch
Beer: +5% DR, +1 Ch, -2 Pe
Nukacola: +1 Ag
Cigarettes: +1 Pe, -1 Ch
This is the most shitty bullshit that i've ever seen.
Call me a "Drunk Driver" now.
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*Facepalm.jpg* WTF are u going to do? there IS a ballance already. lets cut all perks and say that "This is better for ballance". remember when BROF wasnt working at all? wanna return to that times? Or maybe lets return TLA crafting system?
This is the most shitty bullsit that i've ever seen.
Call me a "Drunk Driver" now.
It is ok, because you will eliminate bad addict cooldowns.
Problem i see with reworked Fast shot trait is, that it has big potential to make SG burst weapons more competitive, without any major tweak. But only if this trait wil give bonus to burst mode in aim+burst weapons.
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It is ok, because you will eliminate bad addict cooldowns.
Problem i see with reworked Fast shot trait is, that it has big potential to make SG burst weapons more competitive, without any major tweak. But only if this trait wil give bonus to burst mode in aim+burst weapons.
Well you can read this:
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=8067.msg70632#msg70632
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Problem i see with reworked Fast shot trait is, that it has big potential to make SG burst weapons more competitive, without any major tweak. But only if this trait wil give bonus to burst mode in aim+burst weapons.
SG weapons are quite good. SGunner has less HP(usually), but he can cause more damage than BGunner with avenger.
And...
wil give bonus to burst mode in aim+burst weapons.
Only bozar left for BGunners?
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Why the hell do you have to shoot 3 to 4 times in a row? I even get killed by one shot of a Minigun most of the time...
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Why the hell do you have to shoot 3 to 4 times in a row? I even get killed by one shot of a Minigun most of the time...
3, not 4. your char is a crafter or it is lame. >2 minigun shots needed to kill the sniper.
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3, not 4. your char is a crafter or it is lame. >2 minigun shots needed to kill the sniper.
Seems like you've never played with a sniper. ::)
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I AM a sniper :)
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SG weapons are quite good. SGunner has less HP(usually), but he can cause more damage than BGunner with avenger.
Well, SG aimed shot to eyes with criticals yes (can cause more damage than BGunne), but not every time, randomly.
SG unaimed shot will never do equivalent damage like SG eye or head shot.
Laser rifle single unaimed .. hmm, it can be new "class". I understand that changes that solar introduced, but.
My question is, why not add bonus to burst mode in aim+burst weapons too (P90 burst 4 except 5). It will affect only shotguns, smgs and assault rifles weapons class and all of this weapons are weak in comparsion to others. They all do less damage than lsw/avenger, shotguns and smg have half range than snipers and 2/3 range of LSW/Avenger, so they could benefit from this change too and it will not make imbalance to BGunners.
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I was talking about burstSG. Snipers dont need Fast Shot. SGunner with P90 can kill 2 BGunners. When BGunner can kill 2 SGunners too. of course drugged with all possible drugs.
Shotguns are rarely used. Mostly when killing centaurs or scorpions. And assault rifle is mostly used by snipers. noone shoot with avenger or lsw from max range. (23 with psycho) thats useless. as useless as P90 from 22 hex
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I was talking about burstSG. Snipers dont need Fast Shot. SGunner with P90 can kill 2 BGunners. When BGunner can kill 2 SGunners too. of course drugged with all possible drugs.
P90 SG burst build can do average 50 HP DMG/burst (to CA BA)
x
Avenger minigun/5mm AP against BA CA + 2x Tougness = 50% DR, 12 DT => 15% DR, 2 DT -> 260.66 dmg from one hex -> 260.66/3 = 86.88 dmg.
So with Avenger char with 10 AG = 10 AP you can do 250 DMG (tank build) by 3 x 6 AP (BROF perk) burst = 18 AP = 14,4 seconds you need to do cca 250 DMG (full AP refresh = 8 seconds)
And P90 char with 10 AG = 10 AP you can do 250 DMG (tank build) by 5 x 4 AP (BROF perk) burst = 20 AP + (2 x 3 AP time to reload) = 26 AP = 20,8 seconds + reload animation you need to do cca 250 DMG
If fast shot will affect P90 burst => 5 x 3AP + (2 x 3 AP to reload) = 21 AP = 16,8 seconds + double reload animation time => you will be dead before enemy Avenger burster. + P90 build have only 24 instead of 30 range.
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Psst, only 1 dose of each drug at a time.
A lot of this is this and that is that in here. Doesn't take into account other changes.
An Avenger will always sit at the top of the tree in terms of DPS. It is just where it belongs.
However Fast Shot single shot weapons already have limited applications, specifically 14mm pistol and plasma pistol, BRoF, Fast Shot and Living Anatomy, and they will recieve other things to boost the class.
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Psst, only 1 dose of drugs at a time.
So no possible combination of jet and buffout, or even 2 nuka colas?
A lot of this is this and that is that in here. Doesn't take into account other changes.
Okay :)
Its possible (not the 2 colas), edited my earlier post to be a bit clearer.
Thanks :-*
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So no possible combination of jet and buffout, or even 2 nuka colas?
Its possible (not the 2 colas), edited my earlier post to be a bit clearer.
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*facepalm.jpg* we'll see the result on practice.
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We'll see
result catastrophy on practice.
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Yeah yeah, disaster, facepalm, omfg wut iz dat.
At least wait till it get implemented, test it, and then whine.
And what about "crafting" trait? Any ideas or "todo" list?
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Please include an OD option for drug users.
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Fast shot wasnt really a trait for big gunners so i fully agree with new changes.
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Yeah yeah, disaster, facepalm, omfg wut iz dat.
At least wait till it get implemented, test it, and then whine.
And what about "crafting" trait? Any ideas or "todo" list?
Depends on how it's going to work. If it was something like "shorter cooldowns, less hitpoints" it would be obvious alt-trait.
But it could be that you get bonus from using equipment made by yourself but receive longer cooldowns. Could be called "Perfectionist".
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You recieve no cooldowns, but don't get exp for using your skills (includes crafting) :P Now thats a real trait!
Concerning about Fast Shot, I heard they wanna remove it because all biggunners use it. Well then why don't we remove Finnese? All critical snipers use it, remove it... why don't we remove More Criticals perk? All critical snipers use it, remove it... Why don't we remove SG skill? All critical snipers use it... Why don't we remove Big guns skill? All BGs use it, remove it. Now, the game is now balanced - we have almost no perks, almost no skills, and almost no traits, but the game is balanced :) Play happy.
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That will be looks like this game after Beta ;)
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You recieve no cooldowns, but don't get exp for using your skills (includes crafting) :P Now thats a real trait!
Concerning about Fast Shot, I heard they wanna remove it because all biggunners use it. Well then why don't we remove Finnese? All critical snipers use it, remove it...
Not all snipers are using finnese, because this trait has a big disadvantage - lower damage. And current fast shot has no disadvantages at all for a big gunner character.
why don't we remove More Criticals perk? All critical snipers use it, remove it... Why don't we remove SG skill? All critical snipers use it... Why don't we remove Big guns skill? All BGs use it, remove it. Now, the game is now balanced - we have almost no perks, almost no skills, and almost no traits, but the game is balanced :) Play happy.
blah blah blah :P
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Concerning about Fast Shot, I heard they wanna remove it because all biggunners use it. Well then why don't we remove Finnese? All critical snipers use it, remove it... why don't we remove More Criticals perk? All critical snipers use it, remove it... Why don't we remove SG skill? All critical snipers use it... Why don't we remove Big guns skill? All BGs use it, remove it. Now, the game is now balanced - we have almost no perks, almost no skills, and almost no traits, but the game is balanced :) Play happy.
Well let's. Basically all perks that increase your fighting effectivity add to the imbalance. If everyone was equal in terms of character builds, the pvp would be reliant on player's skills not their characters'.
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Well then why don't we remove Finnese?
;p
Finesse sux, with this trait:
You have additional 4 LK if you shooting eyes.
6.25 LK if you shooting head.
8.25 LK if you shooting groin or arms.
12.5 LK if you shooting legs.
10 LK if you shooting torso.
Also this trait means your target always has Psycho, which adds also DR to explosion, laser and plasma.
And if your target really has Psycho or alteast any armor, then you'll deal no damage, untill you bypass armor.
As you can see this trait excellent for arms and legs, so if you're pure crippler who simply want to cripple all hands and legs of your target redardless of damage, then it's your trait.
I'm finesse and almost always bypass armor when shooting someone at BH at hands, weapon always droped and usually hand is crippled.
With 14mm Pistol I deal from 20 to 40 damage with armor bypass at hands.
I have Better Critical perk and x3 More Critical.
Shooting in the eyes or head, finesse won't give much difference.
I regret that I took Finesse trait, so I have to shoot arms to take any advantage from this trait.
So: if your character has Finesse trait it means forget about bursts and your arm/leg shooting will have almost the same %critical as head/eye, allowing you to cripple more often.
At one event this trait saved my life like 4 times, when after killing all critters FFA started, I was camping in a room, and 4 others wanted to kill me, these morons were running in one by one, not all together, so I was simply shooting thier hands and then picking up thier avengers and sniper rifles until I had max carry capacity, after that I tried to run away and they killed me, because dead critters had 10k avengers and bazookas laying everywhere, so Finesse was useless there.
In 1v1 without miniguns laying everywhere this is excellent trait. *And without current bug, when you picking up someone's gun and then your client crash. **And without "G" button auto clicker allowing you to instantly pick up droped weapon.
But usually it's 1v5 or 1v6, then this trait is useless, but don't worry, 1v5 and 1v6 none trait will help, but dynamite, jet and minigun with only x120 ammo, because you don't need more.
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Current fast shot trait is one free perk for big gunners. They loose nothing.
Actualy, i like new drugs idea. It brings (i hope, reality is sometimes different) 3 effects:
1) no more 240+ HP powerbuilds with 16 AP
2) no badeffects
3) more variety in build creating.. i dont know how devs want to boost FN, but it looks like that SG burst build could be possible, not the "main battle tank" but decent supportive role because of enough AP to burst more than enemy. Problem is, that 12 AP P90 build will do cca 100 damage to best tank BG build, but BG will do 90 damage in 6 AP on longer distance.. but we will see
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Also it adds 2 CH builds, with beer which can be bought at any bar/saloon you're able to talk to NPCs like normal person!
But anyway it's 1 point waste, but it's better than 2, so if some builds had before 3 CH, now they can have 2 CH.
I don't think someone is going to use Jet, but Psycho will be very useful, I mean, really very useful.
Buffout can be used with nuka to change weapon handling, but you'll need alot nuka to keep penalty negating, or simply have 7 / 9 AG and use buffout without nuka. If you had 6 AG before, you spend 1 point on it for 7 and remove 2 points from ST, so it saves to you 1 stat point. For SG, 3 ST is enough for most one-handed pistols like deagle or 10mm, and with buffout you're able to shoot from any SG, except for CAWS.
Cigs the same as now, but because of x1 max, PE will be 9, not 8 ;p
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question is, how junkie traits will be reworked
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as usual they dont even think what they are doing
lets look at this :
Jet: +2 AP, -1 Ch, -2 Str, -15% DR - makes jet useless not worth using it at all
Psycho: +15% DR, +1 Str, +1 En, -2 Pe - ( not so bad but if we cannot take more than 1 dose - useless )
Buffout: +2 Str, +2 En, -1 Ag - ( +2 En doesnt help at all, what is it for anyway? so we get +2 Str and lose -1 Ag which means -1 ap, well we can get a 1 extra skill point )
Mentats: +2 Int, +2 Ch ( becomes proffesion drug nothing more )
Beer: +5% DR, +1 Ch, -2 Pe ( useless what is it for ?)
Nukacola: +1 Ag ( no change, only 1 dose makes this drug less effective )
Cigarettes: +1 Pe, -1 Ch ( no change, only 1 dose makes this drug less effective )
if drugs stay as it is above people will use only buffaouts and nuka+ cig - +2 Str + 1 Pe
nerfing the ma mk2 is a bad idea, if it was up to me i would as a question:
how many hits can one person get before death? and around this number all guns and armors supposed to be balanced,
armors are too weak, leather armors give no protection its better to go blue than wear them, mk gives something ca as well but its not enough, critical hits supposed to be reworked as well.
if armors are stronger and bypasses removed or nerfed it will make the time spent on gathering and crafting the armors worth it, battle will be longer, people will be able to use stimpacks etc ...
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Well, its possible to remain at a constant +3 Ch using beer and mentats, it just costs. Beer and Nukacola price will have to be raised at bars and our cigarette machines will have to be placed in the world too.
The end result will be top power builds will have been slightly nerfed, both through drugs and fast shot not working for bursts/certain perks and the middle weapons (AR, LSW, FN FAL, M60, p90c, CAWs, .223 pistol, Frag Grenades etc will have a boost in comparison to the top weapons. [Hell, even the Tommy Gun and Grease have been bosted!])
Hopefully the result is a closer spread of character builds with the best getting worse and the average getting better - meaning a greater variety of characters you can take without being hopelessly outgunned by the top players (and also gives a break to our poor NPCs who have to exist at very sub par builds)
if drugs stay as it is above people will use only buffaouts and nuka+ cig - +2 Str + 1 Pe
If thats all you want to use, thats up to you. Drugs creating super characters is over. You now must choose the drug or drugs which give effects you are after.
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Well I think it dev's aim to prevent drug-machines with builds specially for drugs. Because they have no drawbacks, if they're not on drugs, they're offline and have no penalty of thier stupid build. If they're on drugs means they're online and currently in combat. It forces them wait until combat to use drugs on 100% and be offline on drawback/no drugs. It's almost the same as Fast Shot trait for BGers now, only advatange. So drugs going to be changed to be drawback too, but they failed at buffout, because I don't see any drawbacks at this drug, and if it'll stay unchanged, everyone will have -2 ST +1 AG to thier build or +nuka, so they will only make thier ST on 2 less, and spend these points on something else.
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Solar, im a player, i "had" many powerbuilds and i know how it works, when someone creat a new build he looks at the drugs and skill points, drugs u mentioned will not be used at all belive me or not, only buffaout cig + nuka = +2 Str + 1 Pe which means almost clean build, also nerfing psycho so much is a bad idea, also +15 % is nothing, so far people used psycho b/c they could get 2 doses 30%+30% +ca%+ perks was around 95% and u can still be killed by a lucky guy with avenger and critical hit
and i have the most important question:
why u boost cheap guns and nerf the most expensive weapons, does it make sense? u want to see a guy with a tommy gun which takes seconds to craft killing a guy in ca + avenger ?
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why u boost cheap guns and nerf the most expensive weapons, does it make sense? u want to see a guy with a tommy gun which takes seconds to craft killing a guy in ca + avenger ?
+1. The same question.
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drugs u mentioned will not be used at all belive me or not, only buffaout
Yeah Solar! Nerf buffout! It's imba!
Cigs and nuka is ok, but buffout isn't. It should give +1 ST +2/+3 EN and -1 AG, +2 ST is too much and allows to have build without disadvantages. Or give penalty of - 2 AG instead of -1.
With +1 +3 -1 it'll be less effective for weapon handling and won't save points at all, except for nuka.
So it'll save only 1 SPECIAL points if you use it with nuka, and it's ok.
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I would say thats more a fail for Nukacola, because I couldn't think of any appropriate downside for it. But then I thought ... well, I wanted people to be fighting over the Nukacola crafting stations, so I don't really care if it becomes a must have item :)
Killy, I disagree, I can imagine characters who would use all of them and several combinations - we shall see what the take up rate is.
For example:
Jet + Psycho + Buffout + Cola = +2 AP +3En (Effect is felt on critical tables, they have En tests) +1 Str -1 Pe -1 Ch
Headline effect +2 AP +1 Str -1 Pe ... fine for a Big Gunner.
About boosting the worse guns in comparison, your questions are ... ill considered :) The best guns will still be the best guns, just with a less massive advantage.
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i wrote this before, what u think about it ?
nerfing the ma mk2 is a bad idea, if it was up to me i would as a question:
how many hits can one person get before death? and around this number all guns and armors supposed to be balanced,
armors are too weak, leather armors give no protection its better to go blue than wear them, mk gives something ca as well but its not enough, critical hits supposed to be reworked as well.
if armors are stronger and bypasses removed or nerfed it will make the time spent on gathering and crafting the armors worth it, battle will be longer, people will be able to use stimpacks etc ...
maybe the best idea is removing bypasses and making guns and shields against them:
avenger ---> ca, ca:bh huge normal dmg TR/TD, laser plasma fire almost zero
laser ----- > mk mk2 huge laser damage reduction, plasma fire normal almost zero
plasma ----> tesla
leather mk2 ( made of fire geckos ) -----> explosive, fire
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+1. The same question.
Because they are still guns. Guns kill people regardless of their model. Insurgents with ak47 can still kill an elite soldier with 100,00$ worth of equipment. It's not the equipment but your personal skills and your life that counts, or at least that's how it's supposed to be. Besides even if it takes like 10 hours to craft and gather top tier stuff, it should also last 10 days to play with them. Unless you constantly stick your nose into hazardous areas.
You want to fight like a footsoldier who dies all the time, get used to lower tier stuff.
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why u boost cheap guns and nerf the most expensive weapons, does it make sense? u want to see a guy with a tommy gun which takes seconds to craft killing a guy in ca + avenger ?
So people would use cheaper gear and wasteland is not full of expensive gear soldiers. I would like it that way - gear with lesser differences in quality and if most of it was the best in certain situation. Not that there is single best armor and some best guns and rest is not used in top PvP...
About the drugs, if buffout is not nerfed, the only thing I see why someone would use jet, is sniper, combined with buffout and nuka. Otherwise no one would use it. Psycho should also be changed to +20 DR, with beer it might be viable for avenger tanks.
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Armours will be untouched before the update. We have enough changing at one time for now, adding more variables would be a bad idea.
In the future I don't see any reason why we couldn't have a play around with them though.
About the drugs, we will go with what we have at the moment and adjust to feedback. At least get some playing time before beginning :P
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I would say thats more a fail for Nukacola, because I couldn't think of any appropriate downside for it. But then I thought ... well, I wanted people to be fighting over the Nukacola crafting stations, so I don't really care if it becomes a must have item :)
But what if you're pure buffouter without jet, psycho or something.
Anyway there's no reason to have more than 3 ST, because you can tag SG/FA/DOC and craft buffout yourself, you don't even need an alt.
It means, all SGers will have 3 ST and 7/9 AG or 6/8/10 AG+Cola. (depends on how hard to get cola after wipe)
So there's no drawback. While you have 3 ST you can do XPing with pistols, if you need to shoot from sniper/hunting/assault rifle, just eat buffout which you can craft yourself, because you have FA and Doc tagged.
Or it's supposed to be so?
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about psycho it will be useless, i had a Big gunner build with 4 Pe nad 1 psycho, was useless i had 70% or 75 % DR and didnt feel any diffrence, 40% or 75% to me doesnt make diffrence, then i started taking 2 psychos which gave me 90% DR and that was it ...
about guns and costs:
there supposed to be a tree of guns, everything on the top must be very expensive and have the fire power, at this moment i dont use any BG build they are too expensive and too weak, if fast shoot will be reworked and low tier weapons boosted, most of the people who know how to play will stop use BG ( also it will nerf rocket launcher which is very weak atm )
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i got a question about drugs. Will they work longer then now? If yes, then i see no problem with new drug system
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I think it would be more sensible if jet had only -1 ST, and buffout also had -1 AP.
Yeah I agree they should work like 20-30 minutes, not 10.
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(depends on how hard to get cola + other drugs after wipe)
Theres no real problem with drugs being desirable, they just have to be (at least roughly) similarly desirable and not so good that non drug chars stand no chance.
Afterall there will be limited supply (due to shops stock and limited -and unsafe- crafting places)
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i got a question about drugs. Will they work longer then now? If yes, then i see no problem with new drug system
30 mins from 1 dose. You can keep taking more to be permanently "high".
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then tell me please about sneak how u devs want to solve it out?
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and about the changes, people will stop use big guns after the wipe laser rifle will be the best weapon on the server ofc only eye shoots ...
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(depends on how hard to get cola + other drugs after wipe)
Theres no real problem with drugs being desirable, they just have to be (at least roughly) similarly desirable and not so good that non drug chars stand no chance.
Afterall there will be limited supply (due to shops stock and limited -and unsafe- crafting places)
At last I can see economy in gang controls, you mean, if gang A controls town A, they can craft drug X safely, and if they're good guys, everyone can do that except for PKs in thier list. If gang B trying to take this town and fail, they can't use drugs and gang A has an advantage because they can do that. So, now to craft something you need to capture it, the only bad thing is non-gang-member and small-gang-members, so town control fights should have player limit, so player numner in gang won't affect gameplay much.
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We must have some things for the changelog - though the answer is already on the forums, if you look hard enough :)
and about the changes, people will stop use big guns after the wipe laser rifle will be the best weapon on the server ofc only eye shoots ...
We shall see. Some of the (unmentioned) changes I'm not even sure we will have time to implement yet, so if I don't have any idea what the meta-game for weapons will look like ... you don't either.
Ravenous - sort of.
And with that I disappear back to work.
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As you are in the mood of giving out some info solar (i really appreciate that, thx) i want to ask you something. I play since 1 1/2 months so i missed a lot of betas and i wonder if there was a time with a higher level cap than now (as a beta is meant to test things like this). If the level cap was always at 21 i wonder why you (devs) never condsidered trying a higher level cap like 36 for example. People could actually choose more perks and therefore spread the abilities of their character. Right now the character developement is very limited as every "class" has must have perks which leave no room for other interesting perks. I wonder what would be so bad about a higher level cap if sniper/slayer perk is left out and hp maybe fixed at level 21. Are there any thoughts about this and if not...whats the reason for this limiting level cap?
Kind regards
Chiko
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I agree with Chiko. 30-39 lvel would be a good test, more flexibility in builds.
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I agree with Chiko. 30-39 lvel would be a good test, more flexibility in builds.
u are right, big gun build with 2 lifegivers,3 more criticals, better critical, 10% DR, living anatomy, 300 fa, 300, doc, 300 bg,
i like this flexibility + 400 hp
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If you would care to read complete postings instead of only a few words before actually commenting something you would have noticed that your 400+Hp character would not be possible. Thx.
Chiko
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If you would care to read complete postings instead of only a few words before actually commenting something you would have noticed that your 400+Hp character would not be possible. Thx.
Chiko
perks, perks my little friend, b/c of perks and powerbuilds
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Is upcoming update synonymous with releasing SDK?
And also (prolly it's somewhere at forum but I can't find it) what exactly will contain SDK?
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Is upcoming update synonymous with releasing SDK?
And also (prolly it's somewhere at forum but I can't find it) what exactly will contain SDK?
Releasing SDK has nothing to do with 2238 updates.
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And keep in mind, the more questions you ask, the less you'll get answers :)
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Questions regarding drug changes:
Will addictions still have place? If so, what will be the consequences?
What about drug withdrawal? Is it true that it's gone?
If the new table for drugs is already implemented to the CBT, how does the balance work out?
I've seen several drugs taking away perception and charisma, yet not a single one lowers endurance. Also, Jet seems to be an awful drug, because of the strength substraction(let's not forget Jet is one of the most used drugs in Fallout universe and it's a powerful methamphetamine), leading players into creating characters with a lot more combat skill or Weapon Handling perk especially to make up for the strength loss.
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Well, i have to thanks for this kind of changes. It is exactly that i want, maybe different aproach, but the aim is same: more variety across the builds and i hope, combat game plays.
Forget now on big gunner tank and 3x burst. Now tank could be i.e. SG P90 with 240 HP, but worst damage. Or you will do big damage, but you will not be as invunerable like today.
GJ developers (and Izual :) )
P.S.: any new information about Pancor?
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Pancor gonna be able to burst 3 times min (expanded mag) and maybe some other boost.
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Unless P90 gets... "SLIGHTLY" more damage I'm hoping for expanded mag upgrade...
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Higher level cap - 30-39? WOW WTF? 39 is like a overpowerbuild, not powerbuild! I would suggest 24-30, not making all characters uber and still allowing players to get more perks and skills.
Update? - Well I see that you are making all guns more powerful... but have you thought about unarmed/melee? Have you come up with the thing that most weapons will be able to 1-shot-kill, even the tommy gun if it is boosted? Don't make the game too realistic - It will end up that BGs will be unused because SGs require less stats but do about the same devastation. Also remember that if some weapons are boosted, don't make the unboosted weapons useless. Think twice, test four times, release once when its fully functional.
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Few questions:
1) What about rocket launcher and Fast shot => wil RL single shot get bonus from Fast shot or not? (it is 7 AP basic, 6 with BROF, 5 BROF + Fast shot = 2 shots with 2 rocketlaunchers)
2) AP Rockets, yes or not?
3) What about stonewall perk? Half of snipers strenght goes from knock downs and knock outs.. I understand that current drug rework will result into compromise sniper builds: more shots witout big critical chance or one very critical shot. But stonewall perk should be IMO implemented at 12 level, so some tanks builders should choose if they want to lost some of their HP (on lvl 15 it is minus 24 HP if you dont take second lifegiver) or if they want to kiss the ground more often.
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Few questions:
1) What about rocket launcher and Fast shot => wil RL single shot get bonus from Fast shot or not? (it is 7 AP basic, 6 with BROF, 5 BROF + Fast shot = 2 shots with 2 rocketlaunchers)
2) AP Rockets, yes or not?
3) What about stonewall perk? Half of snipers strenght goes from knock downs and knock outs.. I understand that current drug rework will result into compromise sniper builds: more shots witout big critical chance or one very critical shot. But stonewall perk should be IMO implemented at 12 level, so some tanks builders should choose if they want to lost some of their HP (on lvl 15 it is minus 24 HP if you dont take second lifegiver) or if they want to kiss the ground more often.
1) Can you aim with RL? No, so Fast Shot won't affect it, the same as flamers and grenades.
2) What?
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Well, the only reason you know about drugs is because I asked some PvPers to look at them, so it would've been unfair to favour some of people and not all. Most other things should remain behind the mystical curtain of uncertainty!
Much more preferable to drop hints and half bits of information :)
such as .....
Unless P90 gets... "SLIGHTLY" more damage I'm hoping for expanded mag upgrade...
Or both :P
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Well i didnt read all topic, but about fast shot, i think it should be completely remove from the game, just like gifted its a trait too powerfull that brings nothing good to the game.
As for the drugs, good work on nerfing them. :)
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Well i didnt read all topic, but about fast shot, i think it should be completely remove from the game, just like gifted its a trait too powerfull that brings nothing good to the game.
Lol
3) What about stonewall perk? Half of snipers strenght goes from knock downs and knock outs.. I understand that current drug rework will result into compromise sniper builds: more shots witout big critical chance or one very critical shot. But stonewall perk should be IMO implemented at 12 level, so some tanks builders should choose if they want to lost some of their HP (on lvl 15 it is minus 24 HP if you dont take second lifegiver) or if they want to kiss the ground more often.
What? Stonewall only avoid knockdown, (1/2 chance, not even 100%), I don't think it should be nerfed.
Well, the only reason you know about drugs is because I asked some PvPers to look at them, so it would've been unfair to favour some of people and not all. Most other things should remain behind the mystical curtain of uncertainty!
Does that mean drugs will exactly be like that?
Jet: +2 AP, -1 Ch, -2 Str, -15% DR
Psycho: +15% DR, +1 Str, +1 En, -2 Pe
Buffout: +2 Str, +2 En, -1 Ag
Mentats: +2 Int, +2 Ch
Beer: +5% DR, +1 Ch, -2 Pe
Nukacola: +1 Ag
Cigarettes: +1 Pe, -1 Ch
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Does that mean drugs will exactly be like that?
I hope not. But it seems it will.
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Looks close enough to me without checking.
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what about Rocket launcher? is fast shoot gonna work with it or not ?
and what about sneak is it gonna be nerfed ? no loot, no combat acc ? thats the most important question atm, even more than drugs, sneak turned pvp up side down, killed small pvp everywhere + problems with loot and 1 hex bursters out of nowhere
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Rocket Launcher:
1) Can you aim with RL? No, so Fast Shot won't affect it, the same as flamers and grenades.
Sneak:
We must have some things for the changelog - though the answer is already on the forums, if you look hard enough
(Though based upon how successful our sneak change is we can always increase the malus that weight gives)
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if u nerf drugs players will have lower Pe, propably around 5-7 which again turns pvp up side down, making sneak acc even more powerfull, shooting at the ground will refresh pvp making nades and RL better than it is, but its not gonna solve the ghosts problem, and who told u that ur sneak change is succesfull ? its the worst thing i have ever seen, sometimes it looks like 1 year ago, u enter a location and a second later 10 lsw or plasma nades is killing you
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The change I was referring to is the future change:
We must have some things for the changelog - though the answer is already on the forums, if you look hard enough
Then I was saying we have the weight penalty in reserve which could be increased, if the change which is coming doesn't do the trick.
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Jet: +2 AP, -1 Ch, -2 Str, -15% DR
Psycho: +15% DR, +1 Str, +1 En, -2 Pe
Buffout: +2 Str, +2 En, -1 Ag
Mentats: +2 Int, +2 Ch
Beer: +5% DR, +1 Ch, -2 Pe
Nukacola: +1 Ag
Cigarettes: +1 Pe, -1 Ch
mentats no penalty?
Also 1 beer -2PE? cmooon, should be -1...
Also cigarettes mke you look badass 8), but anyway I like the changes
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Well, the only reason you know about drugs is because I asked some PvPers to look at them
You asked Wichura? :P
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And second question is:
I understand, that this will little nerf Big guns, but it will not add any visible bonus. I think and this trait will be useless then. Dont you think? How many players use single non-aimed shots.
This is useful in turn based PvE with plasma pistol, 14mm pistol, needler, etc.
Solar said it'll be useful with laser rifle, because you'll have more DPS.
Pistol with 2 AP per shot isn't that good in RT, because of shooting animation, but laser rifle may be will do something good.
Yeah shooting in torso by laser rifle very useful...specially to CA will make "nice" dmg.
Drugs will be "very nice"
I hope it wont work as bad as it looks like ;)
You nerf BG class so much
Question-
Crafting 5mm wont'change? I mean to make it easier?
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Purpose of changes
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/4537/mkiinobg.jpg)
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if u nerf drugs players will have lower Pe, propably around 5-7 which again turns pvp up side down, making sneak acc even more powerfull, shooting at the ground will refresh pvp making nades and RL better than it is, but its not gonna solve the ghosts problem, and who told u that ur sneak change is succesfull ?
Thats an advantage of snipers. Don't be such a reliant on drugs. Also they said they made sneak balanced or something like that.
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if u nerf drugs players will have lower Pe, propably around 5-7 which again turns pvp up side down, making sneak acc even more powerfull, shooting at the ground will refresh pvp making nades and RL better than it is, but its not gonna solve the ghosts problem, and who told u that ur sneak change is succesfull ? its the worst thing i have ever seen, sometimes it looks like 1 year ago, u enter a location and a second later 10 lsw or plasma nades is killing you
dont forget to this:
1) every sneaker used fast shot trait (nades, p90, lsw sneaker build) => so they will have less bursts/nades per round
2) many sneakers used drugs too (jet), now if they use it, they will lost their DR significantly
Why you people are so limited in your minds. Dont you realize, that current nerfing will affecr everyone, not only your own builds. I heard cry of biggunners, becase they will lost one from 3 of their bursts per round. They forget, that sniper will lost 1/2 !!! of their shots per round because of drug nerf. Sneakers is the same example. Dont be so pathethic whiners.
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And as said before, snipers won't get out of it all unaffected either ;)
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About the beer. It always occured strange to me, why it only reduces per. I mean sure, but I find it difficult to talk after I have downed a couple of those. No one needs Int in cmbt so why not, only for the RP's sake make the beer or any other alcohol for that matter not only reduce perception but also inteligence. Then you could finally get drunk at the Malteese Falcon and people would see it. A pity you cant add some pukeing animation or some drunk walk.
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if u look at the new drugs u will notice that making a good 2 bursts bg build is not possible, and taking action boys is waste of perks
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Well, 10 AG + jet or 9 AG + nuka cola + jet if you want to save one SPECIAL. 7 AG + jet + nuka + 1 action boy etc. You gotta have many combinations to try ;)
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if u look at the new drugs u will notice that making a good 2 bursts bg build is not possible, and taking action boys is waste of perks
i looked at this exactly, i tested few builds on fonline calculator=> no more TANKS and Big damage together, an this is alright. you can play tank with Pancor, but you will not do damage you need.
It looks like in second era, where drugs chars were in minority and you have to think first, before you create your build. In current system, you need fonline calculator, wiki and 5 minutes to create best posiible powerbuild. In future, you will have to create good team: "2 bursts, but without damage resistance, damn, we will need one player who will tank then", so you will have to combina builds well, if you dont want to kick your ass. " Oh, one sniper with one very good critical shot, or one sniper with 2 shots per round, but only with Arifle and without all more crit perks" What would be our choice? We need to think before battle, damn i hurts :) ".Is that wrong? I dont think so.
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"One person to detect stealth"? 8)
(Also, Jackhammer damage is fine :P)