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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Kobebeaver on August 17, 2010, 04:59:43 pm
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At the moment PvP and PvE feel very diffrent from TB. Enemies who are no problem in TB are a real big threat in RT. Because APs used for Movement is no issue. That makes PvE very dangerous and hard when the enemy does not need 2-3 turn to get close to you but 10 seconds, it also makes PvP rather hectic. I d suggest to translate Agility value into the intervall how fast an AP regenerates but make movement cost AP points again. That would lead to a less hectic and fairer fight against critters and also against humans and would increase the advantage of having high agility instead of just having the first 2 salvos out.
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The best thing in this suggestion is Bonus Move perk will work, so if you'll spend 1 AP for every hex you ran with x2 Bonus Move perk you can run 4 hexes and still have full APs to do actions, so yes, losing APs for run (but not walking) should consume APs, to make it more similar to TB. But APs should regenerate a bit faster than now then.
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PVE hard in RT?? Where I want this for a long time!!!!!!!
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PVE hard in RT?? Where I want this for a long time!!!!!!!
He means loner PvE probably...
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He means loner PvE probably...
FOnline is not a MMO?
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FOnline is not a MMO?
I agree.
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Think it'd be easier just to remove TB. It's an archaic system from the vanilla game and I see no place for it in an MMO like this. :D
Also note: Yeah, things will be more dangerous against npcs. I like that. Some of them are supposed to be. Using TB just to draw out the fight so you can escape is wrong. You got so little hp, then walk a different path to avoid things or get used to dying with your 1 EN guy.
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Think it'd be easier just to remove TB. It's an archaic system from the vanilla game and I see no place for it in an MMO like this. :D
Also note: Yeah, things will be more dangerous against npcs. I like that. Some of them are supposed to be. Using TB just to draw out the fight so you can escape is wrong. You got so little hp, then walk a different path to avoid things or get used to dying with your 1 EN guy.
+1, I agree PVE have to be harder and not to be more easy, remember it is a MMO go in desert with your friend if you want to survive, or die alone!
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Think it'd be easier just to remove TB. It's an archaic system from the vanilla game and I see no place for it in an MMO like this. :D
Thing is, its the basis of all fallout games. And I'm pretty sure allot of players like TB since it allows much more thinking time. allot of perks are also only meant for TB anyway.
I think running should indeed costs APs in RT, but only when you are in combat. (this would probally also be the killer nerf for thieves)
+1, I agree PVE have to be harder and not to be more easy, remember it is a MMO go in desert with your friend if you want to survive, or die alone!
you seem to underestimate npc strenght in RT, even with 2 friends most loners have to do with leather and are around level 1-15. and with 2 friends you are prone to meet bigger encounters.
And if you for example meet 8-9 mauraders then it's goodbye gear. Unless you afcoarse are in a large alliance have high leveled friends with tons of gear and farm those npcs for easy xp.
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Thing is, its the basis of all fallout games. And I'm pretty sure allot of players like TB since it allows much more thinking time. allot of perks are also only meant for TB anyway.
I think running should indeed costs APs in RT, but only when you are in combat. (this would probally also be the killer nerf for thieves)
I would like concentrating on RT combat from mid levels - only on the low levels would be viable to fight in TB.
Maybe it could be achieved by making every higher level NPCs much bigger amounts of AP, making fights with the strongest resemble endless walker on jet overdose...
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Some things I like about RT: Combat is meant to be fast sometimes. You see three raiders armed with assault rifles, unless you are armored and have enough hp, you're probably going to die anyway. They like their bursty-goodness.
Basis of Fallout games... which were Single Player. This game is not Fallout vanilla. Please stop trying to compare it to something that it is based upon, but growing beyond. TB/RT you could say is the core of combat, because every tactic and move is started with whether you are in RT or TB. Having TB does not fit, and mainly just seems to be exploited to stretch combat, exceedingly so.
IMHO: It's a broken facet and should just be knicked out of the game almost entirely.
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Some things I like about RT: Combat is meant to be fast sometimes. You see three raiders armed with assault rifles, unless you are armored and have enough hp, you're probably going to die anyway. They like their bursty-goodness.
Basis of Fallout games... which were Single Player. This game is not Fallout vanilla. Please stop trying to compare it to something that it is based upon, but growing beyond. TB/RT you could say is the core of combat, because every tactic and move is started with whether you are in RT or TB. Having TB does not fit, and mainly just seems to be exploited to stretch combat, exceedingly so.
IMHO: It's a broken facet and should just be knicked out of the game almost entirely.
I can't deny that, but RT needs allot of balancing before that actually is possible, the game should be fun to play for everyone. not just the high leveled ones with gear and tough friends.
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I didnt say i need TB.. but a hybrid form like i suggested would fit great.. i dont need boring long fights, i want continuity BUT i dont want fights to be hectic and completely stupid at all just thinking about who shoots first... this is surely not FO 1 nor 2 but by dropping every feature of FO and just sticking to the graphics also takes away what was good in that game... and a hybrid form with faster regenerating AP points related to your agility value would fit great in this game concept.
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Remove TB? Let's just remove the fo1 and fo2 world, remove the cities and npcs, all the weapons and items from Fallout, what's the difference it's not Fallout Vanilla anymore, right? It's like removing Mauser from the game because nobody really uses it anyway. Turn-based fight is the moment when you feel that you are actually playing Fallout Online not Quake Live. In TB more important are actual aspects of your RPG character like APs, HPs, weapon, armor and stuff not how fast can you click or do you use aimed shot hack or not.
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Remove TB? Let's just remove the fo1 and fo2 world, remove the cities and npcs, all the weapons and items from Fallout, what's the difference it's not Fallout Vanilla anymore, right? It's like removing Mauser from the game because nobody really uses it anyway. Turn-based fight is the moment when you feel that you are actually playing Fallout Online not Quake Live. In TB more important are actual aspects of your RPG character like APs, HPs, weapon, armor and stuff not how fast can you click or do you use aimed shot hack or not.
+1
Call me oldschool, call me uncool but i love turnbased because it gives you time to get an overview and what to do next. Of course its unuseable for TC but please let people at least choose wether they want to play encounters in TB or RT.
Chiko
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TB is in Fallout 1/2 games and i love that too.
It's also easier for new players than RT.
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IMHO I think having TB is what makes FOnline unique to other MMOS and game sin general.
Why is a twitch reflex player going to play a game with 10 year old graphics when twitch game genres (likeFPS) have ten times better graphics.
Honestly, the markets flooded with twitch games right now while TB gems like Fallout and Arcanum are being pushed to the wayside. If people want twitch reflex games, they will play better ones like SC2 or Crysis 2, not Fallout.
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Removing TB? What a junky idea... I play this game because it has something from Fallout 2 which I love. Just remove all Fallout 1/2 things and people will stop playing it. Turn based is only way for new guys. If you remove turn based everyone can go and play Runescape (same graphic, better crafting system and everything in real time) or if you will destroy RT by APs needed to move PvP players will go and play Counter Strike (10 times better graphic, bigger action) PvE players can go and play Metin 2 (better graphic, lot of PvE enemies and there are no stupid PKs)...
Why don't you ''developers'' see that experienced players are leaving?! There aren't almost any TC fights, cities are empty because you so called ''developers'' ruined this game. This game used to be great at the begining of OBT 3 or before 2-3 wipes but now this game SUCKS!! Old experienced gangs and their players don't play this ''game'' anymore gangs like BBS or most of VSB is inactive and just looks like this game is sinking into lake of shits!!
I play since OBT 3 I had in this game great times and bad times... But now this game is in biggest shit I ever seen! Just keep working in way like this, don't listen good ideas, realize stupid ideas and in short time you will have empty server for your GM games like shooting Enclave Patrol with you GM char...
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Cut that crap with "omg developers are so lazy, teh players they are leaving", we already had it elsewhere and this thread isnt about that topic.
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Who said developers are lazy? Did you read what I wrote? Probably not so stop reading between lines and focus on my TEXT! I said you aren't listening players so this is reason why are they leaving...And I wrote what I think about TB combat so becalm.
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Think it'd be easier just to remove TB. It's an archaic system from the vanilla game and I see no place for it in an MMO like this. :D
Also note: Yeah, things will be more dangerous against npcs. I like that. Some of them are supposed to be. Using TB just to draw out the fight so you can escape is wrong. You got so little hp, then walk a different path to avoid things or get used to dying with your 1 EN guy.
Yeah, let's also remove other archaic things, remove boring leveling up, spawn everywhere on the map APAs, Gausses and Vindicators, then let's add "achievements" like "impressive" or "excellent" after pwning more than one pixel at the same time. This would improve dynamic in fights. Oh, and we also need to stop calling it "Fallout Online", as it would become yet another mindless shooter, but 2D and isometric.
I'm scared such ideas are coming from Game Master. Good luck in wiping off more than 3 NPCs with long range weapon in RT, unless you are not psycho-junkie with BA.
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Removing TB? What a junky idea... I play this game because it has something from Fallout 2 which I love. Just remove all Fallout 1/2 things and people will stop playing it. Turn based is only way for new guys. If you remove turn based everyone can go and play Runescape (same graphic, better crafting system and everything in real time) or if you will destroy RT by APs needed to move PvP players will go and play Counter Strike (10 times better graphic, bigger action) PvE players can go and play Metin 2 (better graphic, lot of PvE enemies and there are no stupid PKs)...
Why don't you ''developers'' see that experienced players are leaving?! There aren't almost any TC fights, cities are empty because you so called ''developers'' ruined this game. This game used to be great at the begining of OBT 3 or before 2-3 wipes but now this game SUCKS!! Old experienced gangs and their players don't play this ''game'' anymore gangs like BBS or most of VSB is inactive and just looks like this game is sinking into lake of shits!!
I play since OBT 3 I had in this game great times and bad times... But now this game is in biggest shit I ever seen! Just keep working in way like this, don't listen good ideas, realize stupid ideas and in short time you will have empty server for your GM games like shooting Enclave Patrol with you GM char...
Retard posts like this really spur us on, thanks!
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Yesterday i played the whole night with RT. It is complete stupidity because people charge you and there only downside is that they dont get AP back but increase their chance to fire significantly... It's an easy calculation when you get charging in for your first strike for free there is no downside having a accurate distance weapon. try clicking on a criss cross runner with slight lag so you can do a aimed shot... maybe you get your shot maybe the other one with a weapon with a far inferior range but superior damage will shred you to pieces in the time... after first strike game cooles down a bit because everyone is regenerating AP. My question would be what is the exact benefit of having more Agility then my oponent everyone starts at 0 when every AP is consumed and needs the same AP points when shooting... therefore a player with just enough AP to shoot once and have to spare points distrubted to more urgent atributes has a major advantage.. you getting the drift ?
RT as it is now just favors high end chars who have a great armor and a great gun. because they can ultimately pawn everything under their level.
I really strongly recomend that moving costs AP points in "RT" and make RT a hybrid form where you get a 1 AP point in a certain intervall depending on your Agility skill. this will slow down combat an will make it more complex and entertaining
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Just dont touch on RealTime mode and TurnBased mode. Kobebeaver right now we need milion other things to fix, maybe in future but right now, here is no space for "Optimising RT and TB".
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Just dont touch on RealTime mode and TurnBased mode. Kobebeaver right now we need milion other things to fix, maybe in future but right now, here is no space for "Optimising RT and TB".
Are you aware that PvP and PvE are a major component of the game ? i know that there are tons of other things but neglecting the fact that this game mechanic is utterly broken and thinking that postpone it will help is stupidity.. TC violent interaction between players proper stealing and so on everything depends on a good solution.
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The best thing in this suggestion is Bonus Move perk will work, so if you'll spend 1 AP for every hex you ran with x2 Bonus Move perk you can run 4 hexes and still have full APs to do actions, so yes, losing APs for run (but not walking) should consume APs, to make it more similar to TB. But APs should regenerate a bit faster than now then.
Then you either get
1. Situation where you have to walk everywhere, at all times.
2. AP drain only counting in combat, so you get some people walking away whilst others (not in combat mode) are able to run all around them and stop them doing anything
There is no need for run to reduce AP, turn based and real time are just different.
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What's one of the weirdest thing in real time? The fact that your shots are released immediately. If sniper shot in the eyes costs 7-8 action points what's the idea that the player is somehow uncapable of doing anything after he fired the shot? That high action point investmen means that the character spends time aiming, not recovering from recoil lol. So when shooting aimed shots the action points should be spent in reverse order so that you kind of wait for 7 actions points to pass and then the attack is delivered.
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Retard posts like this really spur us on, thanks!
Nice answer from developer :-X I'm sad, because this people control game... :'(
Why are you attacking me? I didn't said you are retard, jackass or asshole? No I wrote my post with a little bit decency and I'm just stupid player. You are developer you shouldn't talk like that...
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Think about the actual game play that would result in. It would be almost impossible to ambush or guard a place. Combat would either turn into two lines shooting each other or there would be no combat at all.
The weird situation now is things such as 3 avenger shots in 3 seconds. With new drugs and fast shot not affecting burst weapons you won't be getting these things.
Your max AP will likely be 12 and an Avenger shot will be 6 AP.
Nice answer from developer :-X I'm sad, because this people control game... :'(
Why are you attacking me? I didn't said you are retard, jackass or asshole? No I wrote my post with a little bit decency and I'm just stupid player. You are developer you shouldn't talk like that...
I'm not a Developer.
you so called ''developers'' ruined this game
I’m a “developer”. Developers can’t call your post retarded, even when it is. A “developer” can however.
As you gave nothing to back up your claim, why would I have to give anything to back up mine?
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Think about the actual game play that would result in. It would be almost impossible to ambush or guard a place. Combat would either turn into two lines shooting each other or there would be no combat at all.
Snipers should be used on targets unaware of your presence so that they won't see you before you fire. That's why snipers in reality prefer to hide themselves.
If you want to ambush, use guns with less aps needed. For example shotguns, pistols, smg and assault rifles could fire almost instantly if unaimed.
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Its really not hard to run out of range of something like a pistol, or even a minigun with 6 AP warning.
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I'm not a Developer.
I’m a “developer”. Developers can’t call your post retarded, even when it is. A “developer” can however.
As you gave nothing to back up your claim, why would I have to give anything to back up mine?
Nice wordplay... But ok call me retard... Stupid is as stupid does.
Everything what I wanted to say is that some players (maybe a lot of) will hate this change and they stop playing, so there will be less people and less people means less fun...
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Its really not hard to run out of range of something like a pistol, or even a minigun with 6 AP warning.
Discussing these things without presenting a complete overhaul is usually pretty fruitless since you can just say that x will still suck because y ruins it.
How I'd see it is that guns with aimed shots would require biggest aiming time, but you could still fire any time with less accuracy. It's just when the needed action points had been spent the accuracy would be 95%. In addition if you ran, it would give bigger penalty to base accuracy because your char is winded and unprepared. So running would be mostly used in crossing hazardous areas, pure fleeing and out-of-combat movement.
Certain guns could be fired quite accurately without big delay so that they would be ideal assault weapons. For example a shotgun could be fired in 0.3 seconds when activating attack command with 50% accuracy.
Nice wordplay... But ok call me retard... Stupid is as stupid does.
Everything what I wanted to say is that some players (maybe a lot of) will hate this change and they stop playing, so there will be less people and less people means less fun...
Nobody will leave if lack of turn based is replaced with awesome real time. Most players prefer turn based not because it's fallouty but because real time is awful. Our real time shouldn't be based on twitch reflexes in first place anyway.
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The instant shot does make a surprisingly big difference. I'm messing around in Tactics and quite often you'll see a shooting animation begun but not finished because the guy aiming got killed.
Unaimed shots have always been the redheaded stepchild of Fallout combat.
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Nobody will leave if lack of turn based is replaced with awesome real time. Most players prefer turn based not because it's fallouty but because real time is awful. Our real time shouldn't be based on twitch reflexes in first place anyway.
Now we're talking.
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Does anyone of you X-Com Apocalypse ? it had a RT mode implemented... i was thinking about something similar to that one, means you have 3 diffrent options to shoot your gun which will take certain seconds to fire the gun but the longer you aim the more acurate is the shot or penalty is reduced a lot. We CAN get rid of AP points but we would need to translate these into boni at preforming actions in seconds. gimme a day or 2 and i present you a fully worked out concept.. i have something big in mind... man i wish i could work for this project ;)
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Nice wordplay... But ok call me retard... Stupid is as stupid does.
Everything what I wanted to say is that some players (maybe a lot of) will hate this change and they stop playing, so there will be less people and less people means less fun...
No, what you said was that us "developers" were ruining the game. This was nonsense.
Nowhere has anyone said anything is going to happen to TB mode.
Discussing these things without presenting a complete overhaul is usually pretty fruitless since you can just say that x will still suck because y ruins it.
How I'd see it is that guns with aimed shots would require biggest aiming time, but you could still fire any time with less accuracy. It's just when the needed action points had been spent the accuracy would be 95%. In addition if you ran, it would give bigger penalty to base accuracy because your char is winded and unprepared. So running would be mostly used in crossing hazardous areas, pure fleeing and out-of-combat movement.
Certain guns could be fired quite accurately without big delay so that they would be ideal assault weapons. For example a shotgun could be fired in 0.3 seconds when activating attack command with 50% accuracy.
Well all the good parts of this come with set-up time.
If - please note that if - things were to change a long these lines then set-up time would be all you need to create "assault" weapons wothout completely gimping high AP weapons.
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Nowhere has anyone said anything is going to happen to TB mode.
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