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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Zak Blayde on August 12, 2010, 11:37:32 am
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I thought leveling was a problem, because it's really boring. And I thought we should avoid it by beginning lvl21. But I was wrong.
I figured out the leveling wasn't the problem. The problem is that currently, the leveling means using non massively multiplayers gameplay mechanics, like PvE or quests.
There is no point to remove PvE or quests become some players like it, but we should find new ways of leveling, more in accord with a MMOG.
Some examples of leveling and experience system in other games :
EVE Online: Character advancement is accomplished through the activation of skill training kits. Once a training kit is utilized, a certain period of time must elapse before training is complete and the skill is functional. The activation time required is measured in real time and training continues regardless of whether or not a player is connected to the game. The training time needed for skills may range from less than an hour to several days, depending on the type and complexity of the skill.
Ultima Online: You gain XP by using your skills. You don't have to kill a creature to gain XP, just hitting it is enough. The good point with it is that it can be easily applied to PvP (but must be balanced, hitting a lower level shouldn't make you gain XP) and make the XP sharing easier.
A NWN2 server I was on: Role Play communication give you experience ! If you use the RP channel, you gain XP. It's a really cool system for non combative characters. But it's kinda hard to avoid system abuses. The communication have to make you win just a little XP, making combat more interesting for those who would abuse RP XP system.
An article about the 3 main leveling systems : http://word-of-shadow.blogspot.com/2008/05/best-rpg-leveling-system.html
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I don't think just changing the leveling system would be enough. We could keep it just as it is because we want FOnline:2238 to stay a little faithful to Fallout2.
But we need to think about new ways to level, more in accord with Massively Multiplayers gameplay mechanics.
Some ideas ?
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(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6103/betaq.png)
The devs are going to implent other ways to level for sure, don't worry.
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At least it would be nice if it was viable to lvl multiplayer PvE, not like currently - who kills gets the exp.
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This is FOnline not ultima online (or i hope so..)
Default leveling in FOnline is good.
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Actual PvE is fine. There are other things which are more important atm.
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There is hardly something more ironic about FOnline 2238, a massively multiplayer online role-playing game, than that the best way to level up is to do it alone, preferrably hiding from other people.
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Multiplayer don't have to mean multiplayer getting experience.
Multiplayer means that you can meet other real players here.
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Multiplayer don't have to mean multiplayer getting experience.
Multiplayer means that you can meet other real players here.
Yes but why should it stay as it is ? Why can't we be innovative ? You're incredibly conservative.
The devs are going to implent other ways to level for sure, don't worry.
I hope so, but Beta means also suggestions. It's really not a problem to talk about it and try to find innovative ideas.
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Yes but why should it stay as it is ? Why can't we be innovative ? You're incredibly conservative.
I hope so, but Beta means also suggestions. It's really not a problem to talk about it and try to find innovative ideas.
I have nothing to your suggestion except that there are more important things now to implement or repair.
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At least it would be nice if it was viable to lvl multiplayer PvE, not like currently - who kills gets the exp.
Don't worry ! :p Devs already said a shared-XP system is needed in FOnline, so it's on their (Huge, but still) to-do list.
@Zak : I've been reading the article you linked in the first post, and the time-based system is quite interesting imo. However, it would be a big change to FOnline, and would maybe bring the game too far from original Fallout 1 & 2 :/
@Pandemon, if you have nothing to say, stop posting. Kthxbye
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Exp for roleplaying?
Jolly good.
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shared exp sounds good, but anything else fail :P
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Since when did Nyan get back? Awesome.
I think the level system does need rethinking. I can see why 21 was chosen, but it also seems like a pretty severe cutoff. That once you've hit 21, that's it, your character can't evolve any more. I guess earnable upgrades would help. Vault City Inoculations, etc.
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XP for combat MISSIONS would be cool, if you're in a NPC faction, like BoS, Enclave or Rangers/Raiders.
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Leveling over quests HAS to be improved. Who the heck apart from zealoteous roleplayer would do a quest that needs about 30 minutes and rewards you with 300 xp while you can go killing floats and cents and get about 5-10k xp (dependant on what build/support/lucky) in the same ammount of time.
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I like all 3 ways of leveling...
Shared xp, no question - improves player interaction
gaining skill via using the skill... I dont know. What would be the level for then? For HP? Perks only? OK. But on the condition that theres a limit of skill points. Otherwise everyone would have 300%... well it could reduce alting... but nah....some fonline fanatics would swap gatling laser with a rocket launcher, it would be too much :D
RP - that would be nice. Of course we lack channels, like in mainstream games. Maybe a radio channels could do, but again, it wouldnt be universal...
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gaining skill via using the skill... I dont know. What would be the level for then? For HP? Perks only? OK. But on the condition that theres a limit of skill points. Otherwise everyone would have 300%... well it could reduce alting... but nah....some fonline fanatics would swap gatling laser with a rocket launcher, it would be too much :D
You misunderstood that, its gaining XP by using skills. We have it now afaik, but xp gained is pretty weak compared to lvling by killing. Id be happy to lvl up just by using my skills (sure it needs balance). Moreover, I think every skill (like sneak or barter) should award XP
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I like all 3 ways of leveling...
Shared xp, no question - improves player interaction
gaining skill via using the skill... I dont know. What would be the level for then? For HP? Perks only? OK. But on the condition that theres a limit of skill points. Otherwise everyone would have 300%... well it could reduce alting... but nah....some fonline fanatics would swap gatling laser with a rocket launcher, it would be too much :D
RP - that would be nice. Of course we lack channels, like in mainstream games. Maybe a radio channels could do, but again, it wouldnt be universal...
In EVE Online and Ultima Online, you can upgrade your skills to a certain point. Imagine you can upgrade of 500 points through all your all skills, you have to plan what skills you will upgrade and how much.
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Its not ultima... Its gurps SPECIAL...
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Its not ultima... Its gurps SPECIAL...
If you say so, I never played with the gurps SPECIAL game system.
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not even fallout or fallout 2?
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not even fallout or fallout 2?
lionheart is also based on this system... and even fonline. ;)
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I just went with the most obvious ones apart from FOnline, and hmm, never heard of lionheart before, you mind posting a link so I can check what it is?
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Yes I played Fallout 2. Ok i misunderstood what you were saying.
gordulan : Lionheart is a kinda mix of Diablo and Baldur's Gate in gameplay. And the universe is a mix of fantasy and real characters like Leonardo Da Vinci... It's a good game but I never finished it.
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XP Sharing, as Izual said, is tagged somewhere on the epic todo list.
Gaining xp by using skills is there. Doc, Repair, Outdoors, FA, Thief - the problem being a lot of these can be botted, so the potential growth must be restricted.
Gaining by RP, I can't (or don't) even want to imagine what bodged up system this would use :P
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Thiefs should gain xp when stealing from players.
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Thiefs should gain xp when stealing from players.
ahahahahahaha.. oh wow mate. Two men siting in the middle of the desert for a week stealing one coin frome each other. That would NEVER EVER be exploited. I believe fallout online mature community would only steal like 2-3 items per hour in towns from strangers and those fine gentleman would NEVER EVER whine and cry that not only they loose their stuff but the thieves also get exp for this. I salute you kind sire for your brilliant idea. This man should get a town named after him. In real life.
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That's logical, you are getting experience from using a skill. You get experience using First Aid and Doctor right?
Ohh, no, but you can have two chars attacking, crippling and then healing(FA+Doc) each other! ABUSE! EXPLOIT! UNLIMITED EXP! Anything else? -.-
Following your way of thinking, we should remove experience that you gain for healing.
We should remove experience you gain for walking on the map and using your outdoorsman skill! Because now you just walk around, and walk, and walk... And gain exp everytime you get an encounter! You just need about 130% in outdoorsman.
We should remove experience you gain for repairing! Because you could get a cheap armor, and then let the other guy shot you so the armor breaks. Then you repair it! UNLIMITED EXP!
You know how fucking boring is leveling a thief this way? Moving a coin between two inventories, then doing it again, then again, again... ZzZzZz.... Yes, you could use a bot here. And in all the examples i pointed above.
Now, my point of view. Thiefs should gain xp when stealing from players. When you think for a while, you could get soo many ideas how to make this not exploitable. You just need to use your brain a bit harder.
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Well, i dont know if this is not too heretic, but i never understand, why i can raising my skill by using another one.
I.e.: i kill 20 radscorpions with 10 mm pistol, i get on level 2 get new skill points gained from killing something and then i boost absolutely different skill, i.e. speech.
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That's logical, you are getting experience from using a skill. You get experience using First Aid and Doctor right?
Ohh, no, but you can have two chars attacking, crippling and then healing(FA+Doc) each other! ABUSE! EXPLOIT! UNLIMITED EXP! Anything else? -.-
Following your way of thinking, we should remove experience that you gain for healing.
We should remove experience you gain for walking on the map and using your outdoorsman skill! Because now you just walk around, and walk, and walk... And gain exp everytime you get an encounter! You just need about 130% in outdoorsman.
We should remove experience you gain for repairing! Because you could get a cheap armor, and then let the other guy shot you so the armor breaks. Then you repair it! UNLIMITED EXP!
You know how fucking boring is leveling a thief this way? Moving a coin between two inventories, then doing it again, then again, again... ZzZzZz.... Yes, you could use a bot here. And in all the examples i pointed above.
Now, my point of view. Thiefs should gain xp when stealing from players. When you think for a while, you could get soo many ideas how to make this not exploitable. You just need to use your brain a bit harder.
"People are fucking dumb". I can say that because its a quote. Jesus Christ kid, how did you find this game anyway? Did someone write the website on your Halo dvd? Answer is plain and simple. First aid has 14 minutes cool-down and gives you triple the number of hit points healed exp. You healed 20hp you get 60exp. There is no possibility to exploit, you just, you just can't do it. Seriously. If someone would grind level 21 by hitting his mate and faing him every 14 minutes for maybe even 100 exp well, I'd salute him. Doctor skill has even bigger cooldown, gives less exp and is harder to perform.
Steal, lets take a look at this. Skill has 30 second cooldown which starts after using the skill - a.k.a. during the stealing procedure. There is a skill test made versus victims PE, let's just say that my friend will make a dummy alt with 1 PE just for me. He sure can. Every coin stolen or stolen back gives more exp in one run. The exp curve is 10, 15, 25, 35, 40, 50, 60, 70, 100, 100, 100, 100... etc. If my steal skill is over 100 which is a normal value on level 2 I can get 225exp every 30 seconds. With each level the amount of exp is greater. The great thing is that my 1PE friend will never attack me. He will just stand there and wait for another steal attempt. At level 6 you have about 240% steal so you usually can get about 500 exp every 30 seconds, which is 1000exp per minute. Yeah, it's pretty the same thing as First Aid. Do your freaking homework kid.
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Stop calling me kid, because that's not making you more mature.
Again, you didn't think HARDER and made a mistake:
First aid has 14 minutes cool-down
And another one!
You healed 20hp
We are leveling a medic alt, which has First Aid tagged. Let's, for example, give him 10 intelligence and skilled trait - same as I did to my thief alt. Also 10 PE, because it affects First Aid's initial level.
So, we are starting at 60% First Aid(looking at character planner right now). First, we level up using the miniquests(well, I do that usually). At level 2 we already have 110 FA, which means we can heal for 44-110 hit points, 132-330 experience. I will use the average vaule here: (132+330)/2=231. The cooldown is about 3 minutes at this FA skill. We can now easly level up, and get 134% FA. That means even more exp and even smaller cooldown. Now you will do your homework :)
With each level the amount of exp is greater.
But not so much. On 150% steal i have been getting about same vaules, as on 100%. I could only see a real difference each 100%. And when these ghouls in Necropolis still existed, I tried my thief with 300% steal to do the caps exploit, because he still didn't have 21lvl and I wanted my Outdoorsman bigger. I was getting only about 400 exp every half minute. They nerfed the steal skill horribly. Your calculations are wrong.
Conclusions... I could even say that you get more overall experience with First Aid than with Steal :)
Now, personally. Your frustration only makes it more funny to explain it to you.
"People are fucking dumb"
But who's the dumb one here?
And for your information, I was never playing Halo. The only FPS that gained my sympathy was Half Life 2.
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Nyan, Nyan, Nyan, Nyan... How about actually trying out the actual FOnline, not the one thats living in your dreams. Looks like there is a large difference between them. A very large. Oh, and before i start, i agree with Floodnik, calling others kiddies witouth no real reason puts you yourself into the immature kiddy role. You fail at that already, this is the first thing that proves you're the kiddy here.
Anyway, about what you've said, i kind of really started wondering if you have ANY FOnline experience at all.
Two men siting in the middle of the desert for a week stealing one coin frome each other. That would NEVER EVER be exploited.
I see nothing wrong with giving experience from stealing off players; youre talking like you wouldnt know that you can actually get a fresh char to lvl 21 in one day. Some people i know have even gotten a lvl 21 char in 6 hours witouth any xp abuse, just killing high-xp creeps in wasteland.
And your emotional explosion about Floodniks suggestion is the second thing that shows that actually YOU are the immature kiddy here, Nyan.
Lets move along, shall we?
Jesus Christ kid, how did you find this game anyway? Did someone write the website on your Halo dvd?
I couldnt resist qouoting this: 3rd thing why you're kiddy. Following dumb stereotypes about some videogames completly unrelated to FOnline or the threads topic... But this isnt the reason ive posting this bash post.
This is:
First aid has 14 minutes cool-down and gives you triple the number of hit points healed exp. You healed 20hp you get 60exp. There is no possibility to exploit, you just, you just can't do it. Seriously. If someone would grind level 21 by hitting his mate and faing him every 14 minutes for maybe even 100 exp well, I'd salute him. Doctor skill has even bigger cooldown, gives less exp and is harder to perform.
I find it very ironic that you're throwing insults left and right to a guy that actually appears to know the game 20 times more than you do. Im not telling hes knowing the game good, im telling you, apparently, dont know a shit about FOnlines skill mechanics. With about 150 FA skill, wich is quite common, you have about 2 minute cooldown and heal about 120 average HP. Doctor skill has the same cooldown as FA, dear god... About 140 doc, or even 100 has not more than 4 minute cooldown, i think its about the same 2-3 minutes. Not gonna say nothing bout the doc xp, cant remember it.
Do your freaking homework kid.
Another senseless insult about Floodnik being a kid. Anyway, the homework needs to be done by someone else. You, Nyan.
I know you're not a kid, and im not calling you one but you just made an unerasable impression by acting like a 10 year old.
Think of what you say before you press ''Post''.
Your very dear friend,
QLang. :)
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You guys are kinda right and I must apologize. I don't really play this game. My boyfriend is a GM here and I post everyday to try to get his attention because all he does is playing this game. Sometimes I feel like a little kid girl thing because he treats me like this. I'm 16 goddamn, I'm a grownup already. I hope you are reading this mate, I need to know that you care as much as I do.
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(http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/images/smiles/smug.gif)
Why does this story reminds me so much of my own...
If I wouldnt know it better.... ;D