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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Fan Art => Topic started by: baaelSiljan on January 10, 2010, 01:10:50 am

Title: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: baaelSiljan on January 10, 2010, 01:10:50 am
I want to inspire some of You. Today I was playing with 3d chosen one model (and other human models form fallout),  what never before I noticed until now, current model is (like many other models) inspired and created in comic style... Look closely at pijama man:

(http://content.screencast.com/users/baael/folders/Jing/media/801cffdc-4246-42dd-97e5-b5224b52416d/2010-01-10_0102.png)

I was trying to recreate it, but I fail totally:

(http://content.screencast.com/users/baael/folders/Jing/media/f5a8398d-a50a-41f1-9412-42ab07731540/2010-01-10_0101.png) (http://content.screencast.com/users/baael/folders/Jing/media/f5a8398d-a50a-41f1-9412-42ab07731540/2010-01-10_0101.png)(http://content.screencast.com/users/baael/folders/Jing/media/77223feb-cc66-43e5-93bb-b97bfa2883b3/2010-01-10_0101.png) (http://content.screencast.com/users/baael/folders/Jing/media/77223feb-cc66-43e5-93bb-b97bfa2883b3/2010-01-10_0101.png)

(http://content.screencast.com/users/baael/folders/Jing/media/df6fd75e-5729-48e7-acc3-353a68fbf00e/2010-01-10_0142.png)
(http://content.screencast.com/users/baael/folders/Jing/media/53bc8e2b-0bb6-4fe9-9dac-3fd84111a79f/2010-01-10_0143.png) (http://content.screencast.com/users/baael/folders/Jing/media/53bc8e2b-0bb6-4fe9-9dac-3fd84111a79f/2010-01-10_0143.png)


Aryan is original character, rest are rendered 3d models:
(http://content.screencast.com/users/baael/folders/Jing/media/2a189792-fb1d-49c5-962b-d10926c79d7a/2010-01-10_0106.png)

Once again with comparision:
(original Fallout model)
(http://content.screencast.com/users/baael/folders/Jing/media/801cffdc-4246-42dd-97e5-b5224b52416d/2010-01-10_0102.png)

(http://im.in.com/connect/images/profile/b_profile1/Captain_Marvel_%28DC_Comics%29_300.jpg) (http://im.in.com/connect/images/profile/b_profile1/Captain_Marvel_%28DC_Comics%29_300.jpg)(http://users.syd.eastlink.ca/~mdalesandro/MyWebs/S_KingdomCome3.jpg) (http://users.syd.eastlink.ca/~mdalesandro/MyWebs/S_KingdomCome3.jpg)

(http://ui03.gamespot.com/1314/fallout1_2.jpg) (http://ui03.gamespot.com/1314/fallout1_2.jpg)

(http://retrothing.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/07/buckrogers.jpg)

Where's point of this thread? If any of You is 3d modeller or drawer - I propose to try yourself to create such model :) Also I guess there is need of such people in FOnline project!

Cheers
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Lexx on January 10, 2010, 02:15:16 am
Pretty good for the start. But it looks like the perspective of your 3d models in that example screens is wrong. Also the arms are not big enough.

And yes, most of the player poses are hero-esque. Like the idle animations or holding a spear, etc.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Karpov on January 10, 2010, 02:50:04 am
That's a nice model. I always wonder where are the original models from back in 1997, i guess it is a mystery...
 About the perspective, you can try creating the famous hex and try to match it on the screen with the camera angle. What I really dont know is if the hex from fallout is a regular hexagon viewing it from the top ???
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: baaelSiljan on January 10, 2010, 02:53:42 am
Thanks - but trust me it is not good ;)

But perspective is good, strange look is caused by optical illusion of scale, model, lighting and pose - also this is test render, after pasting it on plain fallout tiles it becomes better.

Oh yeas, it will be something incredible to obtain original sources of models and animations. I guess there isn't even option to ask interplay about it :P

Hexes for You:

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6649/hexes.jpg) (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/hexes.jpg/) (http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/hexes.jpg/1/w946.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img694/hexes.jpg/1/)

What I really dont know is if the hex from fallout is a regular hexagon viewing it from the top ???

No, it is with perspective too.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Karpov on January 10, 2010, 03:11:20 am
What I wanted to say about the hexes is that they are regular hexagons like this
(http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/tess/hexagon.gif)
but with a little tilt of the camera, and with orthographic projection, it looks like the one you show. And that's why in the game when it looks like walking downwards would be faster it is not.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Cobra on January 10, 2010, 10:29:51 am
Very nice, but there are few anatomical problems. First when biceps are that huge the forearms should also be a lot bigger.
And legs should be wider at the top where they meet the hip and little bit narrower towards the knee.
Or maybe the problem is that the legs are placed too far apart from each other on the hip and the hip is also too small? The hips should be especially bigger in the vertical direction.

Chest is good already and pose is pretty well balanced.


Difficult to explain in words, but I hope this helps you anyway:)

And check this illustration by Justin Sweet for inspiration: http://ui03.gamespot.com/1314/fallout1_2.jpg


Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Lexx on January 10, 2010, 12:49:15 pm
About the perspective, you can try creating the famous hex and try to match it on the screen with the camera angle.

This is not needed. The exact camera position is known. There are threads about this somewhere in the NMA modding board. Shame, I can't find them right now.

/Edit: Found it (http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40060).
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Alvarez on January 10, 2010, 02:01:41 pm
This is not needed. The exact camera position is known. There are threads about this somewhere in the NMA modding board. Shame, I can't find them right now.

/Edit: Found it (http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40060).

Just to clarify, did Continuum used Blender?

I derived the camera position from this tutorial (http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Making_animations_with_3ds_Max_and_FrameAnimator) trigonometrically, it matches:


And i thought i was on the beginning. Thanks for the link, Lexx.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: baaelSiljan on January 10, 2010, 02:39:30 pm
My camera settings (C4d):

Projection: parallel
Rotation:
 H: -120
 P: -25.7
 B: 0

(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8384/perspectivefonline.th.jpg) (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/perspectivefonline.jpg/)
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Lexx on January 10, 2010, 04:10:41 pm
Just to clarify, did Continuum used Blender?

Continuum is using 3ds max.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: baaelSiljan on January 10, 2010, 04:18:32 pm
Just discovered, that original Fallout 2 has some mistakes :) some renders (not many) are clearly rendered in different way, also sometimes shadows, lighting, materials or even perspective is changed. It is seen in FO2, FO1 looks good in every place. :P Did they lost some of sources already in 1997?
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: lisac2k on January 10, 2010, 05:17:22 pm
They had some other people working on it and the deadline, which resulted in some quite shitty critters. The best thing would be to stick to the original Fallout critters, they are more consistent.

Your model is not bad, maybe just a small adjusting here and there... Also, look at this: http://www.jochua.nm.ru/docs/frmantr.htm
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: baaelSiljan on January 10, 2010, 05:29:29 pm
ehh, it is totally wrong as 3d model, also does not match the FO world. Need to be remodeled - maybe next week.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Elmehdi on January 10, 2010, 08:43:19 pm
My camera settings (C4d):

Projection: parallel
Rotation:
 H: -120
 P: -25.7
 B: 0

(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8384/perspectivefonline.th.jpg) (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/perspectivefonline.jpg/)

The model itself is good but his pose seems a bit unnatural. He looks a little as he was pulled up by his hips, hanging slightly over the ground. And he has no testicles  ;).
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Lexx on January 11, 2010, 10:02:26 pm
Don't forget about the very old Gurps images. They show the hero model with leather armor in a close-range shot.

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/e/e1/TITLE.GIF)

(http://www.duckandcover.cx/official/gurps/images/title.jpg)
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Alvarez on January 12, 2010, 11:12:22 am
Also, look at this: http://www.jochua.nm.ru/docs/frmantr.htm

A good one, but there was a english translation on Wiki mentioned earlier:

this tutorial (http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Making_animations_with_3ds_Max_and_FrameAnimator)

Don't forget about the very old Gurps images. They show the hero model with leather armor in a close-range shot.

Isn't that THE original render for Leather Armor Guy?
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Lexx on January 13, 2010, 01:28:45 pm
Isn't that THE original render for Leather Armor Guy?

Yes, it looks like that.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: duorden on January 13, 2010, 02:26:48 pm
Extract and edit resouce from Baldurs Gate Trilogy, IWD, PS:Torment, many animations,effects,items and other.

3d is evil)) 
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Gazoil on January 14, 2010, 06:50:44 pm
Well, here are the drawings you asked for. But as you can see, it's quite ugly, comic style is really not my thing... I hope it helps you in any way for your 3D modeling though.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DUxdPFq_-BM/S09Yn3pimBI/AAAAAAAAACM/y3CmDQGdjC8/s1600/Fonline4ChosenOne.gif) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DUxdPFq_-BM/S09Yn3pimBI/AAAAAAAAACM/y3CmDQGdjC8/s1600/Fonline4ChosenOne.gif)
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Reconite on January 14, 2010, 06:56:42 pm
I think they're good Gazoil. ;)
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Bartosz on January 14, 2010, 08:37:52 pm
But best poses for modeling are when they're drawn like:

http://img692.imageshack.us/i/modelsheet01.png/
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Alvarez on January 14, 2010, 09:23:47 pm
Try these proportions, but the lower legs must be thickened.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2268/battlestar.gif
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Gazoil on January 14, 2010, 11:12:51 pm
But best poses for modeling are when they're drawn like:

http://img692.imageshack.us/i/modelsheet01.png/

Yup, these are called model sheets and used for animation and 3D modeling. But Baeel asked me for these 2 views. Maybe he got these already from another source.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Deon on January 15, 2010, 09:31:29 am
Actually, he asked you:
Quote
May You draw choosen one from http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=670.0 from side and front?
So he asked for modelling sheets.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: baaelSiljan on January 15, 2010, 09:52:35 am
but this one is good! "model sheets" will be great too, but with current sketch I have something more than little sprite from game with correct perspective, especially I like muscles build - whole shape build. Thanks :)

but if You have free time, and dont know what to do with :D Scypior's link is incredible good, I will be very thankfull if can make something like that :) of course if You want.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Lexx on January 22, 2010, 05:21:18 pm
I think it fits the topic... somehow.

Here you can see a supermutant:

(http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/dmrkdfd/supermutant.png) (http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/dmrkdfd/supermutant.png)

Like our leather hero on the other GURPS image, you see that the mutant is much more wide than you would expect it.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: baaelSiljan on January 30, 2010, 04:48:44 pm
current progress


(http://content.screencast.com/users/wojak/folders/Jing/media/ea193fc4-ba26-4e25-85a9-c019bc0b96ac/2010-01-30_0127.png)(http://content.screencast.com/users/wojak/folders/Jing/media/d6650e94-e4ad-4c5b-98d6-7689414c0523/2010-01-30_0135.png)(http://content.screencast.com/users/wojak/folders/Jing/media/7d8f52c4-37b2-4a14-9797-8d1367a1f69f/2010-01-30_0324.png)


now, retopology, optimisation, texturing, then rigging and animation... and after at least retopology, if there will be any texture and animation master (currently im working on it alone with little help of Lexx and Lisac) I can start to model woman, mutie and ghoul.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Solar on January 30, 2010, 05:04:38 pm
looking good  8)
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Lexx on January 30, 2010, 05:54:16 pm
Indeed, very good.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: avv on January 30, 2010, 08:22:44 pm
Dammit post bigger pics! Looking good so far  :o

The right hand on the last pic seems a bit too long.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: baaelSiljan on January 30, 2010, 08:47:47 pm
he has shotgun in hand...  ::)
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: SmartCheetah on January 31, 2010, 01:53:44 am
Very good progress. Few little tweaks and voila. Ready, customizable, choosen one-male model :P
What'd we need more? Animators, texturers and well... More people who wanna contribute. As for now, only baaelSiljan and few other Poles are making such amazing things.

EDIT: Ah, yes. My first try with weapons (in Wings3d) - 15minutes of work.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/59wznk.jpg)
Model was intended to take more from F2 art (F3 10mm is just for comparison) and lack of details(Which is intended. It will be so little that those are really unnecessary)

You can find a little more tries in our Polish section:
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=884.msg11477#new

EDIT:
New One
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2v2yz4j.jpg)
http://i45.tinypic.com/2v2yz4j.jpg
HK G-11
130-150polys.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Badger on February 01, 2010, 02:15:20 am
Is there nothing salvageable from the Van Buren tech demo for this kind of thing? I have no idea if the models would match the art style or not.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Gorlak on February 01, 2010, 04:11:36 am
style doesnt really match, badger.
here is link to all van buren resources that have been exported from game files.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52696
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Badger on February 01, 2010, 04:35:11 am
I'd still like to see the player models somehow crowbarred into F2, just to be sure. It is motivated by my wild desperation.

I was rereading the old Van Buren design docs because of this thread, and then you link me to this.

I am now a pretty sad dude. I will never get over this game.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Alvarez on February 02, 2010, 05:23:07 pm
No progress from me this time due to my IRL qualification, but i found something interesting for rendering frames in Blender.
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=4307.0

However, i would also consider using SpriteForge for taking frames, instead of setting cameras up. It's free up to 2500 pixels.
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/503/spriteforge.jpg)

I'd still like to see the player models somehow crowbarred into F2, just to be sure. It is motivated by my wild desperation.

We could recolor Blue Pajama into Tibbets Inmate Garb - so you know where some players come from. :D
Apropos recoloring. Would it be simpler to work with frames, if they will be placed onto one spritemap, instead of editing every single GIF layer?

Also, i found a tool for converting gifs to spritemaps.
http://stevedunns.blogspot.com/2007/02/tool-for-converting-animated-gifs-to.html

Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Lexx on February 02, 2010, 07:33:20 pm
Simple recoloring critters will not work. Many people tried already and there has never been very good results.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Alvarez on February 05, 2010, 07:53:07 pm
Simple recoloring critters will not work. Many people tried already and there has never been very good results.

Did they tried to overlap colours and recolour them on one sheet? (To be honest, i haven't tried it out with Fallout palette yet.)
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3452/spritesheetdarkgreen.png)
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9031/spritesheetred.png)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9499/spritesheetpurple.png)
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4706/spritesheetvb.png)

Besides, i think that working on one layer, like copypasting body parts will be easier, but it will be a hassle to cut the frames back into right size.

Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Ghosthack on February 05, 2010, 09:18:13 pm
It doesn't change the fact that for each simple recolor, there's a dat needed, and the size can get big rather quickly, so 3D really is the way to go. critter frms aren't fun to work with unless you're a masochist.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Alvarez on February 05, 2010, 10:30:46 pm
It doesn't change the fact that for each simple recolor, there's a dat needed, and the size can get big rather quickly, so 3D really is the way to go. critter frms aren't fun to work with unless you're a masochist.

Wait, you don't mean about setting FOnline on 3d engine?  :o

In current case, i don't deny that new critters with complex frame art require a more efficient creation method. A rigged 3d model with replaceable textures is, in this case, an ideal solution. But it doesn't remove the necessity of postprocessing the render images into the frame animation.
I believe, it would be more convenient to work with a spritesheet instead of single layers.

Plus, i offer you a solution to recolor the whole frame set in one passage for such colour-homogeneuos image, as in this case, a Bluesuit. The result could be seen in my previous post and can provide some colour diversity for the start. I'll try to make some more at Sunday.

And that's by throwing all frames together on one sheet, replace the colours, cut it down again in frames and import. It's still much less work than working on each single frame, switching between layers.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: gordulan on February 05, 2010, 10:35:38 pm
it would be so sweet to be a redsuit at default, would make a whole lot more variation if it would be possible.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Ghosthack on February 05, 2010, 10:48:02 pm
Wait, you don't mean about setting FOnline on 3d engine?  :o

It's already a 3D engine, or 2.5D if you will. Just because you have a 2D plane doesn't mean you can't use 3D models there.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: baaelSiljan on February 06, 2010, 01:02:50 am
It's already a 3D engine, or 2.5D if you will. Just because you have a 2D plane doesn't mean you can't use 3D models there.

and I guess soon be official info about that. but You are already playing on 3d engine, without models.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Roachor on February 06, 2010, 07:19:33 am
Just as long as you guys don't crash my 8mb video card. Nice blank model, I'm excited to see what characters you design.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Alvarez on February 06, 2010, 01:06:43 pm
It's already a 3D engine, or 2.5D if you will. Just because you have a 2D plane doesn't mean you can't use 3D models there.

That was surprising for me, i thought, you were just emulating the Fallout engine. But at least i know now what you mean.

Heck, that would really simplify a lot. I guess i can scrap my antiquated frames.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Methelina on February 17, 2010, 01:22:14 pm
Mmm Very nice work!

Best of best variant is make this blank model and pack of all ingame anims at bones. And everyone who can do something can try to make weaps and cloth for this model
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Misiolap on February 18, 2010, 11:29:32 pm
Some weapons are already made:
http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/3d_graphics_development_tracker
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: baaelSiljan on February 19, 2010, 07:47:01 pm
i'm currently unavailable :( too much work in my job, soon be back
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: swampcat on March 06, 2010, 08:47:31 pm
nice. i  hope  they  put  your  models and   graphics in the huge 3D  update  coming next !   ;D
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Arminius on March 07, 2010, 04:00:03 am
Nice models Alvarez, I like the variations. The red ones could be chinese/soviet vault dwellers :D Could work for an Anchorage battle reenactment, or something along those lines.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: marcek1989 on December 28, 2010, 11:27:17 am
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7028/90423611.png) (http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6250/49271802.png)

(http://content.screencast.com/users/wojak/folders/Jing/media/bb410405-9e16-4e7e-aca2-bc03f71e9349/2010-01-31_0023.png)

(http://content.screencast.com/users/wojak/folders/Jing/media/ea193fc4-ba26-4e25-85a9-c019bc0b96ac/2010-01-30_0127.png)(http://content.screencast.com/users/wojak/folders/Jing/media/d6650e94-e4ad-4c5b-98d6-7689414c0523/2010-01-30_0135.png)(http://content.screencast.com/users/wojak/folders/Jing/media/7d8f52c4-37b2-4a14-9797-8d1367a1f69f/2010-01-30_0324.png)

@baaelSiljan, your model is better and more "Falloutish" then VB. Any info about his work and models?

http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=988.0 check it model.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Kirkor on December 28, 2010, 12:55:19 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfyqlMBeQFU

Here. There are few moments on this video that may be helpful when you stop it.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Surf on December 28, 2010, 12:59:09 pm
I wish Bael would be more active, his models were very promising and far superior to those VB abominations. :(
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: SmartCheetah on December 28, 2010, 03:32:17 pm
But had one problem. Were not animated at all, while Van Buren models are almost finished on this field. Animating+rigging models is a serious buisness and very time-consuming if you want to make it look good enough.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Shande on December 28, 2010, 05:44:42 pm
Game is lagging hard when you want to aim on 3D character : x.
Title: Re: Choosen one - modeling and discussion
Post by: Alvarez on December 28, 2010, 06:38:35 pm
The VB model walk cycle looks like it's tiptoeing.

Btw, what is actually better in terms of general Fallout modding, creating a animated 3d model for FOnline or creating a frame from a animated high polygon 3d model with a rendering-pasting-offsetting batch? (I speak about mouse/keyboard/Photoshop script)