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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: maszrum on April 22, 2010, 02:55:36 pm
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i hope that someone will understand it, because do not speak too much english ;)
as we all know, the current control system of cities is far from perfection
needs a few changes and improvements, even ncr bluesuits would agree with me - thats why i decided to start this topic
i will tell you first how that looks form my side
probably the main assumption of new TC was long term control, ok that works for first 2-3 weeks, Rogues controled BrokenHills for longer then 1 week, we started really protect that city, making own rules, some quests for begginers, planing some projects and other shit.. after that other gangs decided to create alliance against rogues and our friendly gangs and start this same shit again - ok i understand that and sound fair to me
at this time we are able to protect brokenhills for all day long, even with this nerfed militia (80-90hp) and for what ? after then we goes sleep , canadian cajuns or other crews can easly kill our militia and retake city without any problems.. even with 3 people , becouse militas AI really sucks :) - i know that works on both sides, sometimes we have some night players and they can do same thing to cajuns.
another problem is taking cities by bluesuits and runing away, i know militia should blocking that action but 2-3 bluesutis with huntng rifles are able to kill 15 miltians atm
so we have here 3 major problems :
- weak militia
- night capturing cities, when other players sleeps
- bluesuit city takers
solution ? time control window again ? form 11am to 2am ? ( sorry but 90% of guys who playing TC are form europe time zones )
like NightBird sugested before - some kind of gear check can works against bluesuit taker
aa im almos forget about small sugestions:
- Radio SOS signal from millitians when they are underattack
- Karma for Militia
- Option for adding more expensive and effective miltians
- information wich gang taking city atm - letters should be smaller, maybe in left top corner ?
- seting militians some modes, rules, like doing nothing, KOS enemies of faction , kepping city safe - (PUT THE GUN DOWN! - they will just yell for everyone who have gun in city
ok we playing together in this game, lets find together some solution to improve TC system.. let us discuss, hello -- cajuns, reddots, desertalliance, vsb, bbs
damn i really sucks with english, anyway i wil ltry write more later
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night capturing cities, when other players sleeps
Bad feature, must be dealt with. Anything that encourages playing when others aren't playing is horrible game mechanic. Simpliest way would be just adding capping times like you said. Honestly this is pretty hard feature to be fixed in reasonable way.
- bluesuit city takers[/i]
Force the players to fight a king of the hill combat for 20 mins. Every 5 mins they have to face a wave of militia. They must all stay within certain area, like next to some monument, a flag or inside a buildng. Some of the cappers may die, but they aren't allowed to leave the area.
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After taking town you should have some blockage from taking it back for like 24 hours. What do you have from taking town. if someone can take the town few seconds after the timer expires... And controlling town all the time forces people to play 24/7 what is impossible. I like the feature with "taking town whenever you want", but after taking town it should be impossible to take it by other faction for some time, otherwise this feature is useless.
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1. Militia needs to be stronger. No random shit.
When you are buying militia, you should be allowed to choose how powerful (and expensive) militia you want. You should choose from several militia types with various guns, armors and skills (for example: dudes in jackets with SMG/Hunting rifle, or dudes in metals with sniper rifles/bazookas/miniguns and so on).
2. You should be allowed to pay for "protection" in a particular town. (mentioned here: http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3558.0). Here is my idea:
- you have to go to the town where you want "protection" and speak with its leader. Pay him 500 for one week (not real time, but game time - x20 - so it's several hours) of "protection". As you can be killed while doing it, there should be also a possibility to buy it elsewhere. For example: in NCR, using special terminal. Or even new small guarded location, where every northern town would send its representatives - and you could pay there as well.
- after you paid, every time you enter the town where you are "protected", there is a symbol like "*" at the end of your nickname, so you can be recognised as someone who paid for protection
- militia won't attack you if you don't attack them or controlling faction's members,
- militia WILL attack you if you are attacked by controlling faction's members,
- militia WILL attack anyone who attacked you (except controlling faction's members) if leader or important member of controlling faction set them to act like that ("Defend everyone who paid for protection" dialog option while talking to town leader),
- after one week in game, "protection" ends and caps (500) are spawned in TC footlocker,
- if you are "protected" and militia or members of controlling faction kill you, caps aren't spawned.
3. New options while speaking to TC leader:
"Defend everyone who paid for protection" - mentioned before
"Defend everyone present in the town" - militia will attack everyone who starts a fight - except members of controlling faction, of course
"Weapons must be holstered" - militia shouts "PUT YOUR WEAPON AWAY", after 15 seconds starts attacking. Members of controlling faction are allowed to carry weapons, of course.
"Attack all of our enemies on sight" - militia attacks everyone from factions listed as "Enemy factions" on sight - leader and important members of controlling faction should be able to set factions as "Enemy" (I think I've seen such a list but for "Friendly factions" in Modoc's TC dialog)
4. Leader and important members of controlling faction should be able to move members of local militia (simple "Follow me", "Stay here", "Move a bit, you are blocking my way", "Nevermind" dialog options).
I'm still against "windows" for taking control - before last wipe, they resulted in massive camping on worldmap for an hour and then moving to another town.
Idea mentioned in maszrum's post:
5. Radio SOS signal from millitians when they are underattack - Yes, they should send a message on controlling faction's radio channel whenever they are attacked or take casualties (to prevent one bluesuit trolling by hit & run with hunting or something).
6. Karma for Militia - Yes, you should lose reputation whenever you attack militia (it should be reset to 0 when your faction takes control over town, though)
After taking town you should have some blockage from taking it back for like 24 hours. What do you have from taking town. if someone can take the town few seconds after the timer expires... And controlling town all the time forces people to play 24/7 what is impossible. I like the feature with "taking town whenever you want", but after taking town it should be impossible to take it by other faction for some time, otherwise this feature is useless.
There was something like that before and it was horrible.
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I would say that the biggest problem with TC is that most players aren't interested in it, nor have they tried it.
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We're posting here to improve current TC system (it is much better than before wipe). If you don't use this feature or think it's useless:
1. switch to another thread
2. make a suggestion how to improve it
I can assure you that at least 150-200 players on this server are interested in TC
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- after you paid, every time you enter the town where you are "protected", there is a symbol like "*" at the end of your nickname, so you can be recognised as someone who paid for protection
- militia WILL attack you if you are attacked by controlling faction's members,
- after one week in game, "protection" ends and caps (500) are spawned in TC footlocker.
Wow sounds like pretty pointless protection to me, so you pay 500 caps then the controlling faction can still shoot and loot
How about the controlling faction aren't able to attack you if you pay protection money.
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Ah yes I forgot to add when caps AREN'T spawned. I'll edit that post, thanks.
How about the controlling faction aren't able to attack you if you pay protection money.
No lol. Enemy faction would pay few thousand caps to wipe you out so easily.
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Then the whole idea of protection money is a joke, if you don't get protected. So lol away.
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Then the whole idea of protection money is a joke, if you don't get protected. So lol away.
Why not?
Protected player = the same if he had entered guarded town, where guards are militia and faction members (see above rules for faction members).
Faction member = the same if he is a guard NPC, but who can talk on different languages and say bad words. Can shoot at anyone who want.
Unprotected player = the same if he entered unguarded town where everyone can shot him.
If unprotected player attack protected player or faction member = militia shots his ass and he getting -reputation like in guarded town, so next time he'll be shot on sight, even if he pay for protection.
Faction members can kill unprotected players if they want.
Protected players can't kill unprotected until they become "dangerous" invisible tag, or in other words attack someone, OR protected players can kill them the same as faction members.
Protected player who attacked faction member/other protected player = he becomes unprotected of couse, and militia shoot at him and he gets even more -reputation and he'd better don't come to that place long time.
Now about reputation of faction members at town:
After each kill of protected player by faction member, he gets -100 to reputation. If protected player has been killed my unprotected/other protected, then faction members will lose reputation too, but very low.
If any of faction members gets 0 reputation after killing protected players, militia start to shoot at this faction, and town become under control of NPCs or ... noone.
Protected player who want to capture town making great mistake, because they will have bad reputation there and even if they kill all militia, protected players and faction members town still be under control of that faction, because current faction has low reputation (or atleast one of members of that faction has bad reputation), so they will be simply group of PKs at that town.
So.. they need to be unprotected players to start gang war for taking control under town.
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Well Rat because it will be almost the same as it is now, system being suggested is if you pay protection faction members of the owning town still shoot you, which is the problem, its not a problem that militia shoot you and you die thats fine (and usually only happens if there is a faction member there anyway.)
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i still think that "gear check" and "king of the hill" in same time would change tc pvp dramatically in a good way. People should come to mayor and make town leader impression with gang number and gang gear. There should be somekinda power rating. So every gang member is +3 to power, every lsw +5 to power, every ba +5 to power, every sniper rifle +3 to power etc. If all summed power passes somekinda test number like 25-30 or whatever then they are allowed to take town and TC starts, otherwise town leader tells to gtfo and nothing happens. So TC countdown starts and if gang leaves mayor area (i think something like 50 hexes around mayors house should be it or even dont leaving town could be fine) tc control fails. And former town controlling faction remains in control. So town taking faction would need to stay in that area for some time like 20 minutes, if they do that successfully town is theirs.
So In this way:
- no useless militia would be needed.
- Trolls would not have a way how to hit and run as start town control and leaving area would result in nothing
- fights will be encouraged since if gang would want to take town, they would need to stand their ground and fight
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Well Rat because it will be almost the same as it is now, system being suggested is if you pay protection faction members of the owning town still shoot you, which is the problem, its not a problem that militia shoot you and you die thats fine (and usually only happens if there is a faction member there anyway.)
Ok, here's an example, and then I'll also make an addition to my suggestion to make one cool thigs: protected player will get some of his caps back, if killed, yes, it's possible.
Example:
I'm noob bluesuiter, who want to trade at unguarded town or who want to get HQ materials from mine at this town.
First of all I need a bank account. (new addition to suggestion)
I talking to one of NPCs at unguarded town who provides such protection. First choose city, where you have a bank account, and then confirmation, and if you have enough caps, it'll be removed from your character's bank account and you'll be granted protection.
Now, I'm happy bluesuiter with sledgehammer running to mine (there will be a way how to check player is protected or no, may be something like tags before wipe, like <protected>, or opposite <unprotected>), then one of faction members has bad mood and burst me with his minigun just for fun. I have some caps returned to my bank account for this, current faction has -reputation, so they'll have less reward for protection. After killing Xth protected player, as I said, they will be no more faction who controls this town. So, they will get caps for non-killing poor bluesuiters with sledgehammers, and can lose all these caps and even town, if they will kill them. Also, don't forget that they will have bad reputation, so they can't capture it again for a long time, and will be always shot on sight. Also sych players, who have bad reputation at unguarded town should have tag too, like <dangerous>
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I think the tags are a good idea, also you could flag people who are carrying any other weapon than a sledghammer as dangerous or armed
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Errrr.... any suggestions from people that are directly involved in town control?
Seriously, dudes, your suggestions are full of mistakes. For example:
If any of faction members gets 0 reputation after killing protected players, militia start to shoot at this faction, and town become under control of NPCs or ... noone.
What about trolls who will just pay for protection and come to the town to say you're a dick? :) As I said, controlling faction's members should be allowed to kill anyone they want. If they kill "protected" guy, they won't get caps he paid, simple. I suggested 500, but it can be more, as more caps will surely discourage players from killing protected players. But still I am aware that lots of players will say "WHOA 500 CAPS FOR FEW HOURS ? THAT'S TOO MUCH!"
Suggestion posted by vederas simply sucks because "town taking" is now good and militia IS needed.
Bank accounts.. why do you complicate simple things? :) All that is needed is a terminal in one of guarded towns.
Also, you want to introduce lots of useless tags while we need only to recognise "protected" players.
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Seriously, dudes, your suggestions are full of mistakes. For example:What about trolls who will just pay for protection and come to the town to say you're a dick? :) As I said, controlling faction's members should be allowed to kill anyone they want. If they kill "protected" guy, they won't get caps he paid, simple. I suggested 500, but it can be more, as more caps will surely discourage players from killing protected players. But still I am aware that lots of players will say "WHOA 500 CAPS FOR FEW HOURS ? THAT'S TOO MUCH!"
So, I'm paying you 500 caps, coming to your town.
Then meet you there and saying "You're a moron!", so what? Am I so dangerous? If I will try to do something bad, I'll have penalty to reputation, and can't visit this place for a long time, not good for me.
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I don't see that the controlling faction members will care about not getting 500 caps, they would kill people and easily get that much back from loot
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I'd pay to use the mines/workbench in Broken Hills unmolested. Who knows, maybe I could chat with the faction members about boys or this year's fashions or something.
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I don't see that the controlling faction members will care about not getting 500 caps, they would kill people and easily get that much back from loot
What loot? A sledgehammer? Please.
People buy protection -> go to a town -> get killed there and lose some loot and HQ ore, let's say. They won't come back there, they will pick up another town instead, controlled by a faction that doesn't kill protected dudes. You can check controlling faction in pipboy. People don't come back = no loot and no caps.
People come back when a particular faction is controlling a town = more profit for a faction -> no reason to kill protected players.
In the long term, factions which don't kill protected players will profit much more than those killing everything on sight.
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What loot? A sledgehammer? Please.
People buy protection -> go to a town -> get killed there and lose some loot and HQ ore, let's say. They won't come back there, they will pick up another town instead, controlled by a faction that doesn't kill protected dudes. You can check controlling faction in pipboy. People don't come back = no loot and no caps.
People come back when a particular faction is controlling a town = more profit for a faction -> no reason to kill protected players.
In the long term, factions which don't kill protected players will profit much more than those killing everything on sight.
Not really, you could get more money killing everyone on site, eventually they my be people with better gear who will be shot. Also I don't think they care about 500 caps money when miners carry more than this worth in one trip.
If people don't come back well the faction has less competition for mining etc.
Losing out on 500caps is no way a substantial deterrant.
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Then make it 1000. Or 2000. Last time, Izual said 100 was a big ammount :)
Also... what competition for mining? Is there anything like that?
Anyway. You think it's not worth of it - don't pay. I'm sure that a lot of players will find this feature useful.
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I don't see that the controlling faction members will care about not getting 500 caps, they would kill people and easily get that much back from loot
That's why i saying in 3rd time: They (faction members) will lose reputation at this town. Of couse it'll be permanently, with - ~100 per day, but they will have alot penalty per kill. If protected player do something stupid he'll not be protected anymore and get even more reputation penalty.
So, you're faction member, burst poor bluesuiter to take his sledgehammer, do it again some time, and your faction will be wiped out from this town. Do it atleast once, and you'll get small ammout of caps for this "protection". Do it a lot, but not enough to lose control and you'll simply don't get any caps for you protection.
You're protected player. You did something bad. Attacked someone/tryed to steal/blocking way/etc. you'll get really big reputation penalty and can't be protected and you'll be shot on sight very long time, may be in few weeks (real time) you can enter this town again and punch someone, after that you'll be instantly killed again and you'll need to wait another week to repeat this.
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Then make it 1000. Or 2000. Last time, Izual said 100 was a big ammount :)
Also... what competition for mining? Is there anything like that?
Anyway. You think it's not worth of it - don't pay. I'm sure that a lot of players will find this feature useful.
Hmm how about player loses caps and reputation for killing protected player? that seems fair.
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kilgore you call town taking good when noone is fighting? and everyone just take towns when they have their enemies highly outnumbered.
And militia is not a bad thing, but i would still like it being replaced by somekinda mayors crew, when you take town mayors says his budies already protecting him, you say they arent worth shit, you fight defeat them and town taking starts. It ends mayors budies respawn and serve as mayors crew once again just they are loyal for town controling gang.
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And militia is not a bad thing, but i would still like it being replaced by somekinda mayors crew, when you take town mayors says his budies already protecting him, you say they arent worth shit, you fight defeat them and town taking starts. It ends mayors budies respawn and serve as mayors crew once again just they are loyal for town controling gang.
This shows you didn't test it at all. Because this is exactly how it currently works, replace "mayors crew" with militia.
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Really useless to pay 30k caps for this poor militia
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at this time we are able to protect brokenhills for all day long, even with this nerfed militia (80-90hp) and for what ? after then we goes sleep , canadian cajuns or other crews can easly kill our militia and retake city without any problems.. even with 3 people , becouse militas AI really sucks :) - i know that works on both sides, sometimes we have some night players and they can do same thing to cajuns.
so we have here 3 major problems :
- weak militia
- night capturing cities, when other players sleeps
- bluesuit city takers
solution ? time control window again ? form 11am to 2am ? ( sorry but 90% of guys who playing TC are form europe time zones )like NightBird sugested before - some kind of gear check can works against bluesuit taker
Sound really bad for me, many people play at "night" time, and we have fun, because I am Canadian I will not able to be a part of TC? That sick....
I thing you have many good idea maszrum, but we can find another idea than "control window". And I don’t understand why you want to keep control of city for a long time… If you make a huge fortress in BH (with npc etc..), Cajuns make the same in Redding, West Necro in Klamath, Red Dot in Gecko, Vsb in Modoc etc… what will happen after? It will be the end of the North crusade and we will start making economic alliance?
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This shows you didn't test it at all. Because this is exactly how it currently works, replace "mayors crew" with militia.
but there is one big difference, you wont have to drop away your money for protection which is useless. Thats my suggestion point. And crew should stand in mayors room, like was prewipe in redding, so they could make somekinda "strenght test" (and this time really do some damage instead of in situation now) of town taking gang by themselves. Current militia killing proves nothing and all noobs still can take towns :>
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thats why i made this topic LeMark - to find solution from which you all will be happy
form controling bh ,for longer then week we get more money everyday, only form brokenhills we get more then half-milion caps
imho fortresses are not that bad idea, , we have a lot of other battlegrounds
making own city with own rules - sound good for me, something new ;)
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we have a lot of other battlegrounds
Where? All huge gang fight is when 1 faction take a town...
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so guys, you are happy of current TC system ? :O
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so guys, you are happy of current TC system ? :O
Of course not, "king of the hill" system when capturing town + radio message when your militia under attack + various types of militia = better solution. All other stuff suggested here not that important.
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How we can remove the preview system?
Right now PVP / TC have 2 huges problem : Preview + sneak
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How we can remove the preview system?
Right now PVP / TC have 2 huges problem : Preview + sneak
king of the hill would remove preview disabling need :>
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So, are devs planning to do anything about TC?
Right now militia is no longer being bought - they are not enough to hold against even a small bunch of bluesuits and no challenge at all for any larger faction.
We really need some changes to be made.
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i hope all pvp-players having fun by waiting on worldmap
only yesterday we loss like one hour, waiting on wm for 10minute fight