you are aware that there are no more rules against dual logging right. ???
its not proxy first ist dual log (tirple log ...). when you never see it http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,23103.240.html look down :D and look maszrum profile http://clip2net.com/clip/m130446/1347023819-clip-18kb.jpg .... oh you never use it ? then its time ...And yet, he does not give out his nicks.
dual log is common in pvp like sneakers trolls skauts ... anyway its not possible to play with two characer in same time :D when sandokan have ban i expect ban all characets with dual log in pvp
Buuuusteed!
You are wrong, multilog isn't allowed in PvP.
name does not prove anything, it is only the order of letters :D .Only IP could and when we use proxy IP also does not prove anything . That called "magic circle" :) welcome to fonline stranger!He even said "Im back" so, get out.
He even said "Im back" so, get out.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzN916D8D0
Reese why you so stupid? ;D:(
Sandokan = Littleboy
You are wrong, multilog isn't allowed in PvP.then ban all the people fast reloging, its the same thing. also he is at a disadvantage when he is multilogging he can only really be effective on 1 at a time.
then ban all the people fast reloging, its the same thing. also he is at a disadvantage when he is multilogging he can only really be effective on 1 at a time.Not really, he came with his other character when the first one died, hes not controlling them both at once
Not really, he came with his other character when the first one died, hes not controlling them both at oncethen thats the same as fast reloging not dual logging.
then thats the same as fast reloging not dual logging.And it's still a banable offence, get over it.
well...troll on dual log...funny.
BUT...if you feel damaged by this...you are cryin´on the wrong place. Its the DEVs,who allowed fast relog,and those bloody trolls. And now there is big surprise,when people are using it.
Strong words Jovanka. Since the start of the session I've seen many many players using dual or multi log no matter if they are from my or enemy team, yet till now I'm not aware of anyone of them who has been banned for such violation. PvP alt, merc leader and two sneakers of one player that's basically today's standard in PvP battles. I don't say everybody does that but surely it's not only one guy from each faction.
It's impossible that cheaters have been banned already because I still meet their nick., nick-, nick_ and these are often people who would never ever lend their characters to anybody. So either GMs do their work wrong or they don't care. Which is worse? Honestly I don't know. The only thing I'm afraid of is that you will ban this SANDOKAN and after that leave other cheaters alone.
I banned a couple chars this session for dual log in PvP.
There is no GM who can watch server 24/7 (or even interested in doing it it seems), true, but it doesn't
change the game rules, and it doesn't mean you are allowed to dual log in PvP. If you cheat, don't cry
if one day a couple of your characters will be lost forever because I will be on server and see this. Most
of you aren't kids anymore, this rule never changed, and I'm not going to repeat the warning again.
This is funny few weeks ago Kilgore send to irc screen with AVV and his 3 atl online and nobody care .. now its Hawks and its incredible BAAAD yeah double standarts ...
When bans do happen only the most obvious cheaters get banned and the clever ones continue. It's either all or none when it comes to laying justice.
Every gang use double logs Lemark .. not only Hawks and u know it
This is why I support you dude, like close to every one execpt Jovanka and Wresse, don't you see?
So just cheat, dual log as you wish, who cares how much mercenaries or scouts someone has or troll characters in fact, the only real problem that bothers me is FR and current usage of it. Everyone uses scouts, some slaves on WM or mercenaries, looters and whatever on dual logs, that hasn't bothered me never and ever, i myself use 2 windows of clients constantly and have been using forever. It is so easy to set up that dual log, that i couldn't argue that it somehow gives an advantage since every team use that, if someone don't it's their loss. (i simply don't consider that as cheating how common is that, maybe it's stupid, but not as stupid as 5 combat characters ready on WM)How can you be such an ignorant ? As long as YOU are satisfied with current usage of dual and fast relogs ,everyone should be as well.
2 years ago like 75% of active pvp players (and about 700-800 alts) were banned for using FOCD which was used also for fastrelog timer bypass. Also without autoaim implemented, things like packet filters, fastrelogs from dynamic IPs and duallogs were very common. Now I'm reading that it was unacceptable and players didnt consider it as a necessity, what the fuck am I reading.
Duallog/fastrelog is as old as this game is. 2nd session was also full of this. Maybe on a smaller scale, but remember that large scale pvp started in 3rd session.
You say that if someone use cheats then enable all cheats instead of ban or what ?Dunno what you are talking about, especially about "enabling cheats". Rofl :P
Goddamn speech.
Now, here's a good reason why the devs shouldn't even read this thread: every single time this community disagrees on something, there's a 99% chance somebody's pushing his faction's politics or even his own personal agenda.
The punchline is simple - if you're losing, it's not due to FR/DL/crit too strong/BG too strong.
So what if someone is pushing his own agenda if he has a point? When talking about mechanics it's pretty easy to point out flaws if there's something wrong. Things like realism, what makes sense, what's fun and what's reasonable are harder to discuss. Farming volume is a good example of what's reasonable. Instadeaths have to do with what's fun.
But you can't achieve victories with regular rate without them against teams who use them.
Opinion =/= fact. All I've said that you people input nothing but heavily biased opinions which is detrimental to the development of this game if taken seriously. Even if your intentions are honest, you still spend most of your gaming time on your faction's voice chat and since factions almost always tend to develop a rather homogenous set of views you still end up being biased and playing faction politics instead of providing objective input.
These claims are always hilarious because we've never had more than 6 months to play with a specific set of settings and rules. Basically, this game has never "matured" enough to show what's balanced and what isn't because it's been completely overhauled before it had a chance to develop like that every single time due to bitches who can't handle a few defeats whining about this and that or the devs deciding to randomly toss things around out of the blue.
So nobody is allowed to say anything regarding to balance and gameplay changes because they always have a biased agenda? Wouldn't it be easier for everyone to stop assuming what agenda people are hiding and concentrate what they actually say. False claims concerning gameplay mechanics are easy to point out anyway.If they were easy to point out there wouldn't be so many failed updates.
But it has matured to a point where it can be said what players like and what they don't.That's an opinion, not a fact. Besides second window and fast relog are parts of basic design of this game, doesn't matter whether intentionally or not. You'd have to scrap this entire server and start from scratch to get rid of them.
Could roughly say it like this: pvp is good or isn't at least worse when it doesn't have the following
- Second window
- Fast relog
- Hours of farming to get gear
- Npcs (mercs, slaves)
- Troll characters
Players who complain about these features often actually mean: "I want to play with a single character without any tryhard methods and have fair chances to win If I do my best and am willing to learn from mistakes. If not, I'll gtfo."No, what those people say is "I want a different game with a different set of rules. Give it to me now or else I gtfo." So yeah, the answer to that should always be "you don't like the game as it is, gtfo" with the exception being 90% of the community bitching at something (see the issue of Parley and how boring farming and crafting is). If you were listening to every dude who is like that you'd end up with a permanent state of instability, characters that took some time to level up going from viable to garbage mid-session etc... basically, you'd be where we are now and were before. Not that many of us left, bro. Somehow back in 2009 when things were more stable and the game was easier as far as getting gear is concerned there was more of us, bro.
Then we can answer to the guy that he is just whining which results in him shrugging and leaving. We get to be right once again in the forums but end up wondering where the new and eager pvp teams are.
If they were easy to point out there wouldn't be so many failed updates.
That's an opinion, not a fact. Besides second window and fast relog are parts of basic design of this game, doesn't matter whether intentionally or not.
You'd have to scrap this entire server and start from scratch to get rid of them.
And that part about NPCs and troll chars... christ, man. That's what I'm talking about. You're sneaking in your personal opinion to get the game adjusted to your personal taste because you don't like them.
Breaking news: some people do enjoy playing them.
Removing this part of the game will likely make them quit
And if you were right and these characters were upsetting the game balance, everyone would be playing exclusively troll chars and merc commanders.
No, what those people say is "I want a different game with a different set of rules. Give it to me now or else I gtfo." So yeah, the answer to that should always be "you don't like the game as it is, gtfo" with the exception being 90% of the community bitching at something (see the issue of Parley and how boring farming and crafting is). If you were listening to every dude who is like that you'd end up with a permanent state of instability, characters that took some time to level up going from viable to garbage mid-session etc... basically, you'd be where we are now and were before. Not that many of us left, bro. Somehow back in 2009 when things were more stable and the game was easier as far as getting gear is concerned there was more of us, bro.
And that part about NPCs and troll chars... christ, man. That's what I'm talking about. You're sneaking in your personal opinion to get the game adjusted to your personal taste because you don't like them. Breaking news: some people do enjoy playing them. Removing this part of the game will likely make them quit, just like the countless people before them who threw in the towel due to this kind of shit you post. And if you were right and these characters were upsetting the game balance, everyone would be playing exclusively troll chars and merc commanders. Somehow this is not the case - and actually never was when all the previous forum witch hunts were in progress.
But rejecting something based on your personal assumption won't help either.
But rejecting something based on your personal assumption won't help either.It's not an assumption, there is hard data behind what I've said - there was a fair number of updates the devs backtracked on, ergo they were failed. If there was a large number of failed updates, pointing out flawed mechanics isn't easy, or at least you weren't there to point the devs in the right direction. Oh wait, you actually were, but it still happened.
This is also just an opinion. I would say unintentional activity is always caused by failed or lacking features.No, this is a fact. Basic design by definition is basic, ie. determining how the details look like. 2238 is a game designed around extremely specialized characters, so basically it forces players to have numerous alts to be effective. If you remove alting and dual logs, the rest of the game stops being playable. I mean yeah, you could argue that this "stops being playable" part is an opinion, but then again the nature of players has proven me right when they dual logged and fast relogged en masse back when it was punishable by ban.
I think this is because from the early beginning players who used to do this (years ago) didn't recognize how serious matter it is to fastrelog and dual log and kept doing it without reporting... I mean whining. So no chances to hinder the benefits were made. Of course it's too late now to do much without total overhauls.The issue was raised numerous times and the devs always got the same reply - it's the most effective way of playing the game for a player who wants to win (ie. survive longer than other players, especially in confrontational scenarios). The devs chose to manhandle players creating a rather arbitrary set of rules enforced by GMs instead of altering the game design to facilitate other styles of play. Personally, I think that allowing FR/DL is their way of saying that they were sort of wrong back then.
And I bet when the issue was raised, if it was, it was suppressed as whining.
Ye I don't like them. But there's a reason based on mechanics and balance behind this dislike. Trollcharacters are effective without gear, npc assistance takes a lot of time to prepare and is doomed to revolve around dual/fastrelog due to slow regear time. You don't just buy or enslave a pack of npcs in 2 minutes after death, like you regear a pvp char.So yeah, shit probably requires some balancing. But hey, no balancing is possible because everything is changing on a monthly basis because the devs are making twitch changes to cater to hysterical player outbursts. Going at it one thing at a time would be a good start, instead we've got an angry mob screaming about FR, DL, critchance, AC trolls etc. Guess what happens when they try to tackle all this stuff at once? Yeah, another clusterfuck.
That's likely because of using trollchars is free and fun, but wasteland is supposed to be harsh you remember. Free and fun isn't harsh.
Npc assistance gives victories, who wouldn't like that?
Oh no. No more troll characters and mercpacks. Would it be a big impact if those never appeared again?If you believe these builds are so strong, why don't you play them exclusively yourself?
Plus think about how many players would start to play and participate when they didn't have to deal with those builds.
Nope. And that's because playing these kind of builds is considered cheap by many. Even though it's effective, many players refuse to do it. It's about being ready to do what it takes for victory no matter the methods. There are many things that are doable and help to win but players simply don't want to do them and can only complain if someone else does and wins because of that. What would you do if some other team simply used ten packs of mercs per fight and had endless amount of fastrelogs and bombers? Would you try to outfarm them or simply state that "This is isn't worth it"?Wait, so you're saying that in a highly competitive community people aren't playing with what they consider maximum effectiveness because of some unwritten code of chivalry? That's quite a stretch there given how assholish people can get in their choice of tactics here. The fact is nobody plays exclusively merc commanders, while back when militia was OP everyone was exploiting the militia system. That's the key difference between a broken mechanic and a mechanic that requires some fine-tuning perhaps. Otherwise you're just talking about your personal preferences.
Players have expectations based on previous experiences and refuse to adapt or do it involuntarily. Others adapt to the changes fluently and community splits in terms of opinions.I think that this issue is beyond the scope of this discussion. Do note the key difference between farming for gear and farming for alts, bases and cars. Bases, alts and cars stay and striving to get them is part of the early/mid game during every session - you get your setup, you focus on endgame - ie. the town control, roleplay or whatever else it is you seek. Meanwhile, farming for gear is a constant - you have to get your gear first to do anything else, creating an unhealthy (yeah, that's an opinion, albeit a common one) ratio of work:fun in game that is by definition supposed to be fun.
So you're saying farming is the core evil? Remember that leveling alts, building bases, maintaining logistics and buying mercs is farming too. Guess all this should be faster then. But what's there to live for if nothing has a price?
Your talking like you can measure likeness, i know for a fact that some players just quit because of these stupid AC trolls, it's my word against yours.
Current AC never should have been implemented in the first place, players said from the very beginning that it is a bad idea of the consequences not that their personal preference would be not to play them (it's been discussed so many times that these gearless players are no good for general gameplay and balance, a character witch doesn't have to loose anything, but cause problem to everyone else), if someone will quit because he leveled some character witch is unreasonable, OP etc. etc. it's his choice, i never did level up a sneaker SD burster/nader, you don't have to be a genius to put together two simple things that those features are just not worth it for a character to become useless mid session.
If you believe these builds are so strong, why don't you play them exclusively yourself?
You, sir, fail at reading comprehension. If you look hard enough at what I posted you'll find a reason why your reply is completely redundant.
Your right, i did miss some points, but still defending those trolls is not someone should do. :)
I don't play those builds because i just don't see the point, it's the ultimate scout, ultimate bomber, ultimate looter, where is the fun in that?
If you remove alting and dual logs, the rest of the game stops being playableI ever played without fast relog and dual logs and it was fun. Lately, 'cause withdrawal symptoms from Fonline, I tried to persuade some friends to come back but none of them wanted try a game where you need at least 5 alt for fight ...