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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Lordus on March 28, 2012, 08:08:59 pm
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Why there are 200 players online, but you cannot meet them? Whats wrong? Is this the purpose or not? If not, are there any ways how to change it? Do developers want to change it? Look at JovankaB's event (funny one). There were a lot of players, interacting (mostly PK). Why this is not a rule? Falout had a quests and background story, Fonline has a players.. really? Where?
At this moment, interaction among players is : A) faction interaction among teamates, B) PVP/PK among enemies, C) thiefs D) suicide bombers ......X) trade Y) chat in city. Am i wrong? Did i miss anything?
Crafting in cities was one idea. Are there others?
What about temporary "closure" of some cities? It will cause that more players will be often in open ones, if players would have any purpose to visit any city :/ Fonline is based on factions. Fallout 1 was about need of water. Why not ad faction resource (water) that playeres have to get in cities (caravans,...). Of course => we want to fight, we dont want to collect water. But it is not against, it would only create another opportunity. Fight for water, or trade it, sell it to other factions.
Developers, i think that you should rethink whole Fonline social concept from the ground. "The Fallout origins" element of Fonline seems to be exhausted..
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There is some kind of interaction through X/fire and Steam mod,IRC,teamspeak,mumble...and so on.But you are right,a unique communication channel,a social utility for fallout will be doing miracles..it wouldn t be easy to implement,i m afraid.
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There is no interaction because there is no trust, there are language barriers and out of 150 players 90 are trolls.
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There is no interaction because there is no trust, there are language barriers and out of 150 players 90 are trolls.
This.
I mean, I personally find it very easy to find trustworthy people but that is from a couple years experience... in different games even, but the way the game is built I do not even trust most of my friends with anything valuable ever unless I've known them for at least, approximately 6 months.
Even then, I am hesitant.
Then you got polish/russian/chinese/niggerian/english etcetc... More translator required.
As you say, game needs rebuild on that area. :(
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If you ever tested the FO Desert Europe server you would have seen their global chat screen in the pip boy. I could open a chat window and say hello to the entire server. All messages were broadcast everywhere and eveyone could see them without the need to be tuned in to a certain radio channel. I couldnt tell you the technical aspect of such a feature but if they could do it why couldnt the 2238 team? Maybe something like this here could make it easier for people to connect to the game world a bit easier.
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Causes spam. On tla mk2 server everybody talks on the 0 radio channel. It looks like that:
- Hello
- DICKBUTT NORTH ARMY SUX DICKBUTT NORTH ARMY SUX DICKBUTT NORTH ARMY SUX
although I agree to everything in the op. we are adding more features while fonline is turning into an rpg with muktiplayer. sometimes it is easier to make an alt then find a man who can do the needed job. this is what brought tla to hell (Make a combat, a crafting, an outsoors, a medic alt and play)
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I am with you 100% about the fact that there should be more interaction on a positive level in game. Sadly a few things are in the way,
1 there will never be a safe place for people to gather, and when people gather the trolls/lulz noobs will spawn.
2, a social structure needs certain well structure, the appeal to most people in FOnline is the lack of structure and rules, without them you just have chaos, as demonstrated by the last several sessions in game.
3, it also relies on the need for a certain level a maturity, like someone above posted there is no trust, and for good reason, I have met maybe 2 people in the wastes that didn't instantly go pknoob on me, and one was just bait waiting for his buddy. That doesn't breed a whole lot of desire to interact with anyone, and since you're not safe in a town either, there's really no point to go to one.
Three wipes ago I had barely started playing this game, at that time there was social interaction, I met people who would help you, or run places with you and level, even craft stuff for a price since there was a major CD involved. But over time the uber builds and lulz seeking noobs have driven most of the 'good' people away and some would say that the carebears should be gone, but some of the people I'm talking about in the past were notorious uber build pkr's, they just had standards so I mean actual 'good' people. When you play this game long enough and the only response to your attempts to bring any form of civility to this game are "The Wasteland is Harsh," and "Go play Hello Kitty Online nub" people give up. I would love to be able to be social in this game again, to actually MEET people and try and build up something, but right now the game isn't made for new players, it's only for returning players, and most of those are the above mentioned issues, and since the devs have stated on many occasions that a safe meeting place is COMPLETELY out of the question, I think you're right to ask "Is this game going as intended?"
P.S. Having played many different MMO's I have to note, any type of global chat will almost always dissolve rapidly into (Ass, you suck, Noob, Carebear, your momma, Anal, lol ect ect.) So I feel IMHO we should look beyond just a way to chat across realm.
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Radio 0 is a common chat radio.
Also NCR is the hang around and chat town and if you are a bored you can throw a few plasma grenades and spray somebody with an SMG from your carpets of greaser smgs.
There was once a thing called "roleplay projects" Which factions held towns and made it safe for hang out spots in unguarded towns but the town control system doesn't raelly make these sort of things happen these days. Sarmations used to hold redding for a fun place to hang out while you go mine, same with broken hills hunters in broken hills but that was last wipe.
Once agian blame the TC system for making "roleplay projects" ruined.
For most part majority of factions are on teamspeak, raidcall and mumble. And people socialize with their own groups and factions for the most part.
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It would be hard to redesign everything to make the game social. I don't have any good idea on how to do it and I'm not gonna be thinking of one just to post it and be ignored by devs. The devs aren't asking me or any of you for opinions or ideas so it's up to the devs to think of a solution
I think they're really unorganized and don't really have plans for development, they just test out random brainstormed ideas without analyzing effects.
It's not that hard to sit down with a paper and pen and chart things out.
Also it's really easy to balance classes and weapons out, all you have to do is make a comparison chart of weapons and skills. Make the best BG equal in effectiveness to the best SG and best EW, but with a "rock, paper, scissors" effect where each has a different advantage over the other.
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It would be hard to redesign everything to make the game social. I don't have any good idea on how to do it and I'm not gonna be thinking of one just to post it and be ignored by devs. The devs aren't asking me or any of you for opinions or ideas so it's up to the devs to think of a solution
I think they're really unorganized and don't really have plans for development, they just test out random brainstormed ideas without analyzing effects.
It's not that hard to sit down with a paper and pen and chart things out.
Also it's really easy to balance classes and weapons out, all you have to do is make a comparison chart of weapons and skills. Make the best BG equal in effectiveness to the best SG and best EW, but with a "rock, paper, scissors" effect where each has a different advantage over the other.
It was good last wipe depending what faction held a town, the build balance is a whole different subject than just the town control system. Can't do a succesful roleplay projects when 2 factions have 499/500 influence in town because one well just steal the militia in 1 minute.
You want to be social and chat just go to ncr blue suit and have a few laughs of people getting sprayed and melted in the process. About as good as it gets for social in-game if you are not in faction with a mumble.
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You missed my point. I'm saying that devs lack in: organization, communication, work ethics, leadership, dependability, responsibility, adaptability, and more.
I know developing fonline is their hobby, but you have to have passion for your hobby.
Whatever great ideas you would come up with in this thread will ultimately be ignored by the developers.
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This game is what you make of it, really. I've had plenty of positive interaction with other players (plenty of negative also, but we already knew that).
If you want interaction, go looking for it. You'll likely find it. The good people are still here, but you won't find them if you're avoiding contact with everyone else on the server but the people you already know.
If you run into a PK, well, you just lose a little gear. It happens. You got what you lost from somewhere once, you can replace it. All the friends I've made are worth much more than what I was carrying when I met them.
YMMV
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You missed my point. I'm saying that devs lack in: organization, communication, work ethics, leadership, dependability, responsibility, adaptability, and more.
I know developing fonline is their hobby, but you have to have passion for your hobby.
Whatever great ideas you would come up with in this thread will ultimately be ignored by the developers.
This is not anything new and most players would agree, and the most feedback is just trolls saying stop complaining and cry babying when you suggest a change or don't like something. We know this nothing new doesn't need to be discussed. The topic is about making game social and part of the social experience was factions holding towns for places to be social and it was ruined, and one particular faction basically ruined this with their sick obsession with winning at all costs. Factions who are about making towns social and roleplaying are generally not that great at pvp, and generally don't care if they are good or bad pvp players.
If you complain whine about certian features of the game and then respond back to trolls you just get the ban hammer so yes there is no point really.
We already know this game is for trolls by trolls, the developers aren't professional neither are the moderators it is what we have to deal with. Like I say its not new information that the developers are high on crack when they develope their game and most don't report bugs and things that are OP in the CBT so they can abuse it themselves. This issue has nothing to do with the social aspect of this game other than the town control system because differnt factions have differnt missions. Some want to dominate in PvP and others want to make the towns fun and social. But the current town control system is complete donkey shit and does not allow for factions to rotate in towns.
The 499/500 influence system makes a huge difference in the social aspect of this game. I get your point, I agree with everything you say, but its off topic, and even if another thread was made to discuss this they would delete it, lock it, and ban your forum account if you argue with some stupid troll who says stop cry babying.
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Pretty much it's all been said before, but to reiterate... Socializing is a process that you need to get involved in, go out and meet people, don't be a recluse. You will die horribly, you will get cheated, stabbed in the back and lied to. After you have figured out who those people are (a good 2/3 of the population) you may find a few decent souls worth socializing with, value them more than caps! Don't ever go around or invite people to more than your willing to risk losing. Don't immediately take the first person you befriended in NCR to your tent/base. Use a little common sense. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, diversify your holdings, keep caps off base in tent. Don't take hardly anybody to your tent (even better, nobody). I don't mind doing random RP things in game, and they're certainly is the opportunity if you just make an effort to do so. Instead of trying to convince everybody to RP the right way by not suicide bursting you in ncr, just take it as a fact of life, NCR is dangerous... In all honestly 9 times out of 10, if I see a lone wanderer in low tier gear hunting random shit, I would prefer to ask if you would like company rather than put a bullet in your head and take your 7 gecko pelts a knife 3 broken leather jackets and a mauser. On the other hand, if I'm with my crew and we are farming and you drop in with 2 or 3 buddies, it's on. If I'm leveling in Molerats and encounter anybody and I think i have at least a 50/50 shot at killing you, I will. The people leveling in Molerats are 99% of the time faction pussies leveling there new pvp characters, they expect to fight and give no quarter, he who shoots first has a distinct advantage of surviving the encounter. So if you think oh neato, I am newbie won kenobi and I have just found out how to level on molerats, this is your heads up, everyone their will kill you. If you hang around NCR, I will most likely at some point kill you, not for your gear or your caps or because I dislike you. No, I have no other motivation than it merely makes me gleefully giggle evertime I kill someone, I know it's not right, shouldn't be allowed, blah blah blah, but hey I just <3 it. Others share this proclivity. Social interaction is possible but just understand whats what and whos who and you might get some great socializing adventures.
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u say 200 players online ? how many of them are double and more logs, proxies etc.. how many people are looking for bp using 3 and more acc at the same time ? There is no more than 100 players playing this game, quite an achievement - great changes, great updates, great devs, great gms, congratulation
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It's not the lack of trust that causes problems. Once you find people you wanna stick to, then they are your pals for long time. Unless you yourself have the tendency to switch groups fast. The actual problem is that the features don't support teamwork enough. They try to force it, but that's not the way to go.
We got these quests that demand more than 1 people to involve with differend chars. You might expect that they increase teamplay. Wrong. They increase cheating. It's faster to do that gunrunners mutant quest alone with dual logs and alts than with friends. I'll explain why:
Max benefit is received if you speedrun it. That means knowing exactly what to do and when and deciding how long you want to do it. If you do it alone, you always know what to do and can decide when to quit. If you do it with friends, you have to wait for them and can't decide how long you want to do the quest. Or they have to wait for you, works both ways.
Farming is also better alone. You get to keep all loot and don't have to wait for anyone.
Base requires multiple chars to get. It's easier and more comfortable to get yourself 3 alts, tag the leader and log off than find 3 pals to help you.
Only in pvp teamwork is actually helpful. That's why pvp will be always the activity that remains when everything else is gone.
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I might add to avv's post:
No shared experience gain, only the killer gets all.
This encouraged last-hitting which is against teamplay, if you don't share the kills equal.
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Farming is also better alone. You get to keep all loot and don't have to wait for anyone.
Wrong. Farming is much faster together and i don't mean farming like run around with some buddy and shoot npc's or do quests , that's ridiculous. But to actually farm stuff individually , that is used by all team members and each member farms something. When there were players whining on forum about how hard is to get some stupid ore , i couldn't figure out what i could get because everything was farmed , stockpiled and ready to start a fucking war.
Quests are done faster with actual people too , not dual logs , but players who actually does the same thing to finish it faster - teamwork.
Base can be bought much faster and comfortable with players around you , as well gaining resources to buy/build that base is faster together , now there's only trust issues if they get over that , no dual logs needed.
About these dual logs , i tested once how much time i need to set up a dual log to get a taxi to transport my character from redding to our main base , then i understud that there's no point of setting up dual log because it's faster to walk by foot if i don't have a car nearby. Same shit with all quests and etc. etc. , it takes time while you prepare all characters( most probably will need to make some new , especially for new players) at one place , unless you do that on a regular basis.
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Both avv and T-888 are right at some points. Big tasks are done much more effectively when the whole group gets involved. But when you need to farm one specific item, it's better if every player does it by himself. Example: Farming VC patrols alone is faster than farming in a group. Really T-888, just try it. Farm VC patrols for an hour with 3 friends then farm for another one hour each player alone. You'll see that amount of items will be higher than in the first case :)
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Both avv and T-888 are right at some points. Big tasks are done much more effectively when the whole group gets involved. But when you need to farm one specific item, it's better if every player does it by himself. Example: Farming VC patrols alone is faster than farming in a group. Really T-888, just try it. Farm VC patrols for an hour with 3 friends then farm for another one hour each player alone. You'll see that amount of items will be higher than in the first case :)
And which is more fun? Playing by yourself or interacting with your buddies in epic encounters blasting the shit out of everything. (Encounter sizes do scale depending on number in party)
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Wrong. Farming is much faster together and i don't mean farming like run around with some buddy and shoot npc's or do quests , that's ridiculous. But to actually farm stuff individually , that is used by all team members and each member farms something. When there were players whining on forum about how hard is to get some stupid ore , i couldn't figure out what i could get because everything was farmed , stockpiled and ready to start a fucking war.
That only applies when you're in a gang that shares everything. There are various types of players, friends of gang who got their personal stuff, loners who use the help of contacts or friends.
The point with farming alone vs group is that you can decide how long you do it and nobody's gonna weight you down but yourself. If you got a group of guys who stay around 24/7 and know exactly how to do everything, ofcourse it works. But reality is differend. People got to go afk, they might not have the experience what to do in certain situations, they might not have taxi, looter, farmer chars. If you go farming with group and then calculate the ammount of gear per one person, it will be smaller than if you did it alone.
So can you give some example what can be farmed with group so that the ammount of gear is actually higher per people vs when farming alone. The situation needs to be such that the group is present in one location at a time. Being in teamspeak and doing stuff individually doesn't count.
Quests are done faster with actual people too , not dual logs , but players who actually does the same thing to finish it faster - teamwork.
Really? I think 3 people doing 3 separate quests with duals is faster than 3 guys doing 1 quest one at a time.
Base can be bought much faster and comfortable with players around you
Not if you have to find these people, it can take up to 15 minutes, even longer.
as well gaining resources to buy/build that base is faster together , now there's only trust issues if they get over that , no dual logs needed.
Only if the base is shared. Otherwise it's 4 bases for 4 people. I'm looking from the point of view of an individual.
About these dual logs , i tested once how much time i need to set up a dual log to get a taxi to transport my character from redding to our main base , then i understud that there's no point of setting up dual log because it's faster to walk by foot if i don't have a car nearby. Same shit with all quests and etc. etc. , it takes time while you prepare all characters( most probably will need to make some new , especially for new players) at one place , unless you do that on a regular basis.
If you did it only once, it prolly took a while. Once you've done it dozens of times it's faster. Personally I don't use taxi chars, slow chars use cars so hard to say specifically.
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If you ever tested the FO Desert Europe server you would have seen their global chat screen in the pip boy. I could open a chat window and say hello to the entire server. All messages were broadcast everywhere and eveyone could see them without the need to be tuned in to a certain radio channel. I couldnt tell you the technical aspect of such a feature but if they could do it why couldnt the 2238 team? Maybe something like this here could make it easier for people to connect to the game world a bit easier.
Useful,with spam filters an severe bans.
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Really? I think 3 people doing 3 separate quests with duals is faster than 3 guys doing 1 quest one at a time.
If the quest requires multiple characters , trust me it's faster with players around who know what they are doing , otherwise each has to set multiple logs and will take much more time overall to organize that individually and complete a certain amount of quests.
Being in teamspeak and doing stuff individually doesn't count.
Oh yes it does count , nothing is more efficient. Group of players want to craft x item , so we divide members to do a specific task , gather necessary items , communicate right when it's done.
Only if the base is shared. Otherwise it's 4 bases for 4 people. I'm looking from the point of view of an individual.
See , this all leads to trust issues. This is a multiplayer game , players supposed to work together how they can , is it through teamspeak/irc or a radio ingame it's irrelevant , if they don't well it's their problem.
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Oh yes it does count , nothing is more efficient. Group of players want to craft x item , so we divide members to do a specific task , gather necessary items , communicate right when it's done.
But in this case being in same irc channel while guy 1 farms vc and guy 2 mines count as group farming, even though the group isn't even in the same place. They just keep each other informed about how much stuff is being gathered while in reality they are doing the actual gathering process alone in the ground zero.
Group farming which I was talking about is some activity that simply can't be done alone because it's hard or doing it in group increases the ammount of stuff received dramatically. In my opinion such activity doesn't exist. So far all stuff-acquiring methods I've participated in have been much faster to be done alone.
See , this all leads to trust issues. This is a multiplayer game , players supposed to work together how they can , is it through teamspeak/irc or a radio ingame it's irrelevant , if they don't well it's their problem.
It's not even about trust. It's just that having one's own base is simply more comfortable. You get to decide what you bring, where you place it and who comes in.
If players are supposed to work together, I'd say that reaching that state of gameplay has not succeed because everything is so easy to do alone. Some features try to force us to have friends, but they are bypassable with dual/proxy. That's not the right way to encourage people to work together.
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Current multiplayer quests.. even the (theoreticaly) hardes one, The Glow, is possible to do with one player. Our mate did it alone, with 2-3 alts. He collected what was possible and because of that, rest of other mates did not have reason to go there (alone or together). So creating another "team quest" based only at more alts requirement without any other obstacle (focusing on own char or death,..) is waste of developers time.
One thing i see is a problem that eliminates interaction is Faction economy self-sufficiency, almost autarky. Once you are in faction with 5-6 or more players (my experience), a faction dont need to trade with others. Of course, you can i.e. sell surplus blueprints, but thats all.
There is not anything like that one faction has long time monopol to one resource (resource, drug, item, BP, ammo), and another faction has access to different one. Every faction has access to everything (soon or later) and faction who has at one moment access to something valuable (i.e. get first BP of CA, like VSB did), has no need to trade or sell their product.
Faction vs. faction economy interaction is one element that is not implemented in Fonline and maybe it could be the easiest way to boost interaction without reworking of other aspects (player vs. player barter,...).
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Current multiplayer quests.. even the (theoreticaly) hardes one, The Glow, is possible to do with one player. Our mate did it alone, with 2-3 alts. He collected what was possible and because of that, rest of other mates did not have reason to go there (alone or together). So creating another "team quest" based only at more alts requirement without any other obstacle (focusing on own char or death,..) is waste of developers time.
I second this. It was thought perhaps one time that simply putting a demand to have multiple characters to unlock something would increase player interaction and make the game better. It doesn't really.
Faction vs. faction economy interaction is one element that is not implemented in Fonline and maybe it could be the easiest way to boost interaction without reworking of other aspects (player vs. player barter,...).
Trading is lacking for sure, but wouldn't like to see it as demand for everyone. Especially not with current trade system where we search our customers from irc and forum and perform the deals in improvised ways.
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It's not even about trust. It's just that having one's own base is simply more comfortable. You get to decide what you bring, where you place it and who comes in.
It's more comfortable ? It's faster , now that is what's comfortable , i was a loner once too you know.
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My horde of slaves is all the company I need
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Hello all,
I am noob, but was reeding this past. Do day reily ban peeple on this form for talking opinion?
Yes.
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Sadly there will be no good social in this game without large changes. Because truthfully it doesn't rely on how you act, but on how others act, and the majority of 'others' is a much a lulz seeking power build punks with nothing better to do than blow you away (or steal your shit, or grief you at a vender) rather than talk to you. I honestly miss meeting good people in towns.
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Sadly there will be no good social in this game without large changes. Because truthfully it doesn't rely on how you act, but on how others act, and the majority of 'others' is a much a lulz seeking power build punks with nothing better to do than blow you away (or steal your shit, or grief you at a vender) rather than talk to you. I honestly miss meeting good people in towns.
Good people aren't in towns. They are on worldmap, encounters or anywhere else grinding or just waiting for something to happen. When good person has to go to town, he enters it, gets what he needs and leaves instantly. There is no profit idling inside.
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The problem is simple, but huge and unavoidable:
Why do you want to be "social" with players when you can get killed/robbed/both by those players and there is almost 0 reward for being nice and almost 0 punishment for just killing you and taking all your stuff?
Without any rules and "safe zones" there is no way this game will have player interaction other than "me shoot you, haha".
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there is almost 0 reward for being nice
There is satisfaction you've helped some noobs not to ragequit immediately.
However pwning them for teh lulz roleplaying a raider is much easier of course.
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The problem is simple, but huge and unavoidable:
Why do you want to be "social" with players when you can get killed/robbed/both by those players and there is almost 0 reward for being nice and almost 0 punishment for just killing you and taking all your stuff?
Without any rules and "safe zones" there is no way this game will have player interaction other than "me shoot you, haha".
This is talk of loner who hasn't met people to trust. There's plenty of people to trust but they sure as hell aren't in ncr or randomly encounter you anywhere. Most recruiting happens through irc and forums.
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The every man for himself atmosphere is what makes this game feel post apocalyptic
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The problem is simple, but huge and unavoidable:
Why do you want to be "social" with players when you can get killed/robbed/both by those players and there is almost 0 reward for being nice and almost 0 punishment for just killing you and taking all your stuff?
Without any rules and "safe zones" there is no way this game will have player interaction other than "me shoot you, haha".
The satisfaction you get for helping people is good reward enough. You are right that the nonexistent punishment for killing a random player/npc is really bad.
Global karma would be something so nice. If someone wants to play as an evil guy, I don't think he/she would even complain about the negative karma. Negative karma could give you access to things you wouldn't get with positive karma and vice versa.
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Global karma would be something so nice. If someone wants to play as an evil guy, I don't think he/she would even complain about the negative karma.
Own3d VC Patrol's Revenge:
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5702/vczuabuba.jpg)
I can't really complain, I hate VC anyway :>
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It was said already, but I'll say this again. Its all about exp stuff, and fun.
You can have more fun playing together, but only at PVP, at grinding , better is solo, at farming solo aswell is better (because you don't need to share stuff ).
If Devs could make somethig with shared exp and more loot for wandering together, then it would make game more social, and PLAYABLE.
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Good people aren't in towns. They are on worldmap, encounters or anywhere else grinding or just waiting for something to happen. When good person has to go to town, he enters it, gets what he needs and leaves instantly. There is no profit idling inside.
Well that is true but good people aren't in the wastes either, I've had 26 encounters with other players in the wasteland and only 2 of them were someone not trying to kill me.
As far as the going it alone, dog eat dog mentality someone spoke of being the post apoc way of life, that only works for the very basic essentials of life. If you go it alone you find a place, you set up some food source, a way to defend yourself and that's basically it, unless you're crazy you don't go willy nilly around looking for old tech and diving into caves, you tend to yourself and you survive. This isn't Wasteland Sims. If you truly want to get anywhere or achieve anything in the wastes you have to have like minded people, and the more the better. The distrust is something that is true to the wastes, but in the end you have to find people you can trust or achieve next to nothing and die alone.
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Edited the OP title. Each thread title in questionable english will be deleted from now on.
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There once was a beautiful and prosperous time where they had 500 or more players without the need to proxy, but what has happened! that number fell tragically .. the reason? remains at the discretion of each new to be "beta testers" and in the minds of the old players
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hey im new here, i registered for fonline but how do i join a server with y'all?? please help
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There is satisfaction you've helped some noobs not to ragequit immediately.
there was a time, my main goal was helping especially new players, understanding main gamemechanics of fonline.
and just imagine, while looking for new players to help with building a tent and such things - everyone just told me wichura already had helped em out and is such a nice guy ^^ thats da fucking truth lol..
you're a very busy guy wichura! :-*