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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: T-888 on March 08, 2012, 02:02:47 am
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Last try , if this fails i believe nothing else will succeed. So far the most flexible solution.
Outside the combat , no change at all. Each time you engage in combat , a cooldown on relog is initiated let's say for those 3 minutes , as well cooldown refreshes each time when combat is initiated. To make it more comfortable , that cooldown could show up in the right corner of screen as any other timeout.
PvP would be the same as it was in last season , at the same time allowing everything else what fast relog provides outside of combat.
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i could see 3min cool down for battle skill to max 100% so ants wont kill you in encounter.
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I have no idea what you mean by that , but i'm going to sleep.
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after fast relog you have 3min "sleep mode", when all sg/bg/ew/unarm/mele/throw skill would be reduced to 100%.
that would stop pvp waves fight
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The problem is any client-side fast relog blockades can be avoided. Then GM, if present, has 180 seconds
(as long as other alt is in "off" state) to catch someone. Unless there is GM checking this all day it makes
no sense. I won't do it and I don't know any GM who would like to do this anymore. And even if there was,
there is a lot of possibility for player to twist around in defense. But I won't give you ideas...
That's why I think hindering PvP combat abilities 2-3 minutes after each login would be better.
Because the only way to avoid it would be to stay on multilog whole time and this is way, WAAAAY easier
to catch. I'm telling this from my experience.
It could be simple huge to hit penalty when you aim players or their followers first 120-180 seconds
after login. Same for followers of the player aiming other players and followers.
Would it make sense? No. Would it work? Yes, I believe so.
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Dunno who voted yes, but this idea is even inferior to that of Jovanka, as you don't even need to keep your alt on proxy in game.
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As JovankaB explained, this will not work. If the timeout is only when your character is in combat, people will do what they did to avoid the old anti-FR system - change IP by resetting their router.
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sure, reset your router in 3-2-1...
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The problem is any client-side fast relog blockades can be avoided.
So why nobody raised concerns about this last session ? I think your missing some points , because everyone accepted how PvP was last session. There were no waves , usually players didn't do fast relogs witch in any case wasn't gamebreaking , just come back from respawn well at least that's what SoT did that's no secret. We are known to take every single advantage to succeed and i'm telling you it's not worth to do things your describing. No reasonable person will do that.
(http://s14.postimage.org/jsnsxv2od/respect.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jsnsxv2od/)
that is the message you get by entering our TS been there for few days , as skycast said once we respect ingame rules.
It will work just like last session , obviously better than now. So you all should think about what really are you arguing about.
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So far I agree with your idea.
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as you don't even need to keep your alt on proxy in game.
That is how PvP was in last session , i'm sure you were the biggest cheater in that case if you always think how easy is to take advantage of everything , but the truth is who did ? From what i've heard even BBS members gladly play with only one character in the field , now have to wait for you to deny that with some ridiculous argument because i said that , maybe nice boat will come along and start telling me something about starcraft ...
This way we don't punish players who have whatsoever no interest in PvP.
So far I agree with your idea.
Were on the " same page " when it comes to this , because you understand what's important.
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That is how PvP was in last session , i'm sure you were the biggest cheater in that case if you always think how easy is to take advantage of everything , but the truth is who did ? From what i've heard even BBS members gladly play with only one character in the field , now have to wait for you to deny that with some ridiculous argument because i said that , maybe nice boat will come along and start telling me something about starcraft ...
This is ridiculous coming from a person getting killed at least twice every battle on different chars (here's your random StarCraft reference: zerglings come in pairs too, too bad they're so easy to kill). I'm not saying this to act out on anything, just to remind everyone that the person most active in support of such solutions is exploiting this feature the most. Oh, and spare us the insinuations and poor attempts at trolling, when the FOCD ban wave came BBS was like at the bottom of the list and me and Kilgore were never banned for our actions in-game as far as I can tell.
Besides, Kilgore is a lead dev for another project, so of course he's going to know a lot about cheat prevention and you mouthing him off like that is just hilarious. And to make things clear, I have nothing against introducing this mechanic you propose except for the fact that it won't really work, like, at all.
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This is ridiculous coming from a person getting killed at least twice every battle on different chars
Despite everything that has been told to you in previous topic by avv and others , i can't believe you can still pursue this kind of opinion. Yet you still concentrate on something what is irrelevant to the topic. Please , don't.
I have nothing against introducing this mechanic you propose except for the fact that it won't really work, like, at all.
It worked in last session quite well the overall effect was good enough for everyone to enjoy PvP , that's what is important. How can you say it won't work at all if it has worked in the longest season of all ? Oh right , because it can be avoided in numerous ways , that means it automaticly doesn't work ? I guess your missing something , think about that.
Answer me directly , did you have any major issues with last sessions 3 minute cooldown on fast relog ? Did anyone have ? I am sure someone would have raised those concerns in the 16 month session , but as far as i know players where concerned only about dual log , that tells something very important. It works.
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It worked in last session quite well the overall effect was good enough for everyone to enjoy PvP , that's what is important. How can you say it won't work at all if it has worked in the longest season of all ? Oh right , because it can be avoided in numerous ways , that means it automaticly doesn't work ? I guess your missing something , think about that.
Answer me directly , did you have any major issues with last sessions 3 minute cooldown on fast relog ? Did anyone have ?
Which part of my answer didn't you get? I don't have anything against this, it's just so easy to bypass it's not even funny.
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I see , your avoiding to answer a direct question.
Alright , then answer this will you bypass it each time just for the kicks ? Do you think the majority will do that on a regular basis ?
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*moar rage*
Yes in the last session I was the biggest cheater ever and I was playing in your current gang. Selfown? ;D And talking about previous session, you haven't even played it from its beginning.
I've already told you that your idea is worse than that of Jovanka because it can be bypassed even easier, which part you didn't understand?
Btw posting some image from some gang's announcement message is really impressive, like anybody cares about such stuff :>
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I've already told you that your idea is worse than that of Jovanka because it can be bypassed even easier, which part you didn't understand?
I already told that there is no need to punish players who are not whatsoever interested in PvP.
Yes in the last session I was the biggest cheater ever and I was playing in your current gang.
So if it was so easy to bypass it , tell me why didn't you do that on a regular basis ? Tell me please. Why nobody of us bypassed that ? Think for a moment :)
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So if it was so easy to bypass it , tell me why didn't you do that on a regular basis ? Tell me please. Why nobody of us bypassed that ? Think for a moment :)
Me and him aren't the people to ask for that, because we run single PvP chars. You tell us. Why do you fast relog most of the time? Do you need a timer to stop doing that? Will you bypass it if it's easy enough? Wouldn't it be enough to just state that doing it is prohibited in combat and save the scripters some time?
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I know what. By this thime i regreat that whe said no a similiar to North Alliance from last session this way we would swarm you with 40+ players and guess what if we die we just fr and go in again and wipe any attemp of resistance, fair pvp joy from all the rest of the server, maybe that would make you rage so mutch that you would change you absurde point of view on this.
Maybe we should consider that after all..................
T888 you have my suport and i tink from everyone in my side on this.
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Indeed, this looks like a serious THREAT!
Thanks dude I laughed a lot. Swarm some team in game to change someone's "point of view". Now I see why your team doesn't play anymore. This game just became a fucking serious business.
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You dont undertand my point and are to mutch of retarded to me iven bother to explain........
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Me and him aren't the people to ask for that, because we run single PvP chars.
Then support the old system previous relog timer that went on for 16 months and proved efficient enough , what's the problem ?
Why do you fast relog most of the time? Do you need a timer to stop doing that? Will you bypass it if it's easy enough?
We fast relog because it's what enemy will likely do , when we realized there is no cooldown on relog the first thought was " yeah waves of characters " if we wouldn't abuse it there would be always someone else and we would need to adapt in any case. You can smartly tell us whatever you want , the cold hard truth is if we are using fast relog there is no chance for you to compete , we haven't lost a single battle when each member had few characters on world map. It's just an observation , witch seems ridiculous.
This fast relog business right now takes no effort at all , that is a major factor for it's usage too. With previous timer on relog pretty much nobody bothered to bypass it on a regular basis , i can tell you that SoT wouldn't bypass it too would not be worth the effort , it's more comfortable to play with one character anyway.
Do you need a timer to stop doing that?
I don't need a timer , this game needs some sort of cooldown in PvP. Alting should not be encouraged , that's it.
Wouldn't it be enough to just state that doing it is prohibited in combat and save the scripters some time?
Who will keep check of that ? More work for game masters i guess , you can't rely on that they are not bots.
T888 you have my suport and i tink from everyone in my side on this.
Thanks and you have mine.
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(...) undertand (...) to (...) mutch (...) iven (...) retarded (...) me
Seems about right.
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Seems about right.
For real???? From a troll like you i would expect someting better, but maybe it cames whit the lack the practice like your point of view on this mather.............
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Chill BBS isn't even participating in TC , just some small fights here and there. No offense , for example Tsar has more to do with town control.
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BBS never leaves southern areas because we are too scared of mighty T-888 and Varandas with his 40ppl swarm.
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Well thei are tryng if you consider hotel camping in modoc as tc ;D
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lol kilgore and niceboat are 100% right, dont blame triple 8, he has a a latvian brain and didnt understood you. Bypassing relog timer is very very easy and i think triple 8 is considering that if there is a timer only him and his mates will be bypassing it and having more power!
And happy women day to all of you
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Chill BBS isn't even participating in TC , just some small fights here and there. No offense , for example Tsar has more to do with town control.
Ask Tsar/Hawks or Amboys and their russian(five points or whatever) friends whats going on in Gecko and dont spread bullshit lol ;D Im sure they enjoy our TC participation hehe
Well thei are tryng if you consider hotel camping in modoc as tc ;D
You tried to kill us in that hotel, we just went outside and you died. Seriously man... if i were you i would never said about that hotel.
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Sheeesh... who killed, who cheats and who camped in hotels is irrelevant to the discussion...
I don't know about last session, but in previous ones when I was GM, the FR blockade without
GMs doing constant checks was pretty much useless. Once you stopped checking and banning
people, in a few days, maybe a week, you had number of FRs regrowing like heads of hydra.
Obviously if you didn't FR, you didn't see the GM work (and even if you did FR, you didn't see
how gigantic work it was, or maybe you were just lucky and never caught). So maybe from your
point of view T-888 the timeout "just worked". Well, when I was GM, it didn't "just work".
It required literally hundreds of hours of policing the server and nobody wants to do this anymore.
Maybe later something changed and the blockade was better, I don't know. But I doubt it.
If people can dual log, they can use the same techniques to FR.
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I can tell you at least SoT/Rogues didn't bypass fast relog as much as i was playing with them , i can't say for sure about others but i never heard this being an issue last season. Only gorlak once in a while banned dual loggers without proxy , that's what was done by game masters so i can definitely say it worked. With fast relog we bypasses the original 10 minute cooldown , making those only 3 minutes. It's acceptable by everyone , 10 minutes is just way to much.
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Well obviously if you have game rule and a simple blockade then SOME people won't break it or won't bother to bypass it.
So it was never as big problem as now, when it's allowed to jump from one character to another in 1 second.
Because it's allowed and effortless, soon everyone will do it.
But there is still plenty of people who would take the effort to bypass relog timeout.
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But there is still plenty of people who would do it with the timeout.
Very questionable , if whole factions didn't bother to bypass it i guess it's a major success to current system , so i have no idea who those " plenty people " would be in any case , because i didn't know such people.
Simple game rule and a simple blockade will do wonders just like it did last session , PvP was enjoyable.
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Questionable? I would rather say that if someone has already got used to fastrelogs, he is very likely to bypass any blockade after it's implemented, just because the attitude of many players is to win by any means necessary and they wouldn't give up so easily. Still, it's only a guess.. but I'm pretty much sure that "it will do wonders" is just wishful thinking..
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just because the attitude of many players is to win by any means necessary and they wouldn't give up so easily. Still, it's only a guess.. but I'm pretty much sure that "it will do wonders" is just wishful thinking..
i can tell you that SoT wouldn't bypass it too would not be worth the effort , it's more comfortable to play with one character anyway.
We didn't bypass it last session and why should we suddenly do that if it gets re-implemented ? A very far-fetched guess.
Who are those " many players " , who ? Some loners ?
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Agreed with T-888. This fast-relog in PvP fights are stupid and get less way for any tactic. But it is really uncomfortable to wait that minutes and watching clocks for relog on some crafter or something like that.
More: that would be not too bad if somebody will play in 2 windows by driver or crafter (anyway there are a lot ways to do it in some cheat using.)
But adding of some timeout after combat can really decide this problems. If it's possible to realize that would be really nice and comfortable.
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Like I said, I can't say anything about the last session. Maybe later in the longest season people simply
didn't care that much about winning, so respawn and restocking was enough. But in previous ones it
wasn't thanks to the timeout but thanks to hardline policy on server. And there was plenty of people
trying to fast relog. There was like 50 people banned at any time for fast and dual logs.
It required 2 GMs on server doing only this to keep the server "clean" from FR and multilogs.
1 day break and situation was going back to normal - server crawling with fast/dual logs.
And as far as I can tell, there is no will in GM team to deal with this shit again (but I speak only for myself).
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Back then fast relog wasn't allowed at all you most probably were banning people for every fast relog. The same thing for dual log , but now it's partially allowed , so you don't need to pay attention to that as much as you had to. Now just checking large fights. It could be same for fast relog with my suggestion on top of that.
Maybe later in the longest season people simplydidn't care that much about winning, so respawn and restocking was enough.
No not really at the end of last session there was more PvP than currently , but anyone mentioning to bypass the whole relog timer , never heard of that last session. It was much more then ever about winning , nobody fought for cities , everyone had shitloads of stuff so it was more for the pure fight itself , to win. We freely dual logged with proxies around in cities used taxis and scouts it wasn't allowed but there wasn't a single team that didn't do it , nobody used dual log on ready to fight characters at least in reno fights and TC. Okay maybe some sneaker with LSW that counts as combat viable , but that's it.
Ready to fight characters on dual log , well all PvP'ers understand , that's low. Playing like that was to just throw rub shit in face. So don't ask me why don't we like to see fast relog in PvP. ;D
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As long as i can do PvE battles with FR, okay. But if you remove our ability to use a solo fighter/lockpicker team to clear critters and hunt BP, i'm not okay.
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This current fast relog is highly abusable in TB , don't need no dual log for that. It's not about how you want it but how it's best for the majority of players. Why ? Because you can't always satisfy everyone so the only option is to be flexible. That's important , forcing an opinion doesn't work and achieve anything.
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Let me remind you that this is a game and it is supposed to be fun in the first place. The old relog timer adamantly forced you to stop playing. In fact, it was a 10 minute ban every time you wanted to relog, a punishement. Most retarded feature in FOnline history.
I remember in the last session so many people used fastrelogs, while I was waiting and watching FOnline menu until I was able to connect. One word - frustration. Believe me, it's not easy to be honest in this game, to not use any cheats...
Only thing you achieve with your solution will be punishement for those, who play fair. Cheaters gonna cheat, always. Tens of arguments how it hurts gameplay, but I think people will rather quit because of more restrictions than when you allow them to instantly play this game. When I relog on my farmer, I don't want to wait another 3 minutes due to another ridiculous timer, I wanna grab a gun, armor and go hunting immediately. PvP? Pfff, there always been fastrelogs and always will. It's only bad memory if you don't remember second wave of combat characters...
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Why do i have this feeling that you didn't read at least half the discussion as well my suggestion ? Nevermind.
It was how it was , there is option to improve on that denying that bluntly , avoiding any way for compromise is narrow-minded. Nobody will be punished only restricted and limited around player versus player so interaction between players would be more enjoyable. While farming that fixed 3 minute cooldown won't hurt you as much , because it would be far more flexible than it has ever been , you wouldn't ever need to remember when you logged off comfortable to know when you can log off while being ingame.
My suggestion is to make a 3 minute cooldown relog not a fast relog , that relog cooldown would refresh each time you would initiate combat and you could see it in the right corner of screen as any other timeout. So outside combat , nobody is restricted.
It doesn't make sense to allow everyone to cheat , what is going on right now with no effort at all.
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Sorry I probably confused threads, I was refering to Jovanka's solution. Your solution seems to be quite reasonable to me.
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Don't sweat it :)
Technically it would be like that each time you log of a character , client needs to be in check if there was relog cooldown. If it was for example 1 minute and 40 seconds left , well then you will not be able to log onto other character for that time , but since you would see that cooldown ingame you could do something else meanwhile.
Would that be so easy to bypass ? Now some kilgore or anyone else could enlighten me , if there's something to do with changing IP then well no worries about that.
Quite simple if you ask me.
Again ... the feeling where people vote first then raise their concern ;D so the poll looks irrelevant to me.
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Ok, I think your last post explained the whole idea so I actually fully understand it ;D
I seldom log in any character for less than 3 minutes, so yeah, why not. Good suggestion.
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So to be clear all this "you cannot login for X minutes" is just to prevent people from running into combat with multiple characters?
You cannot possibly prevent that on client (because that's where people cheat), and it's nearly impossible to prevent that on server (because the game is free, and even if it was not, it'd be possible to open more accounts just to 'cheat').
So why not remove it completely and make game just punish abuse instead? It's not easy task at all, but it will not limit game for people not willing to play unfair.
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So why not remove it completely and make game just punish abuse instead? It's not easy task at all, but it will not limit game for people not willing to play unfair.
Who is goin to catch them? ¿Game Masters?
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Nope, there is no point of concentrating on busting relogs and proxies. Instead it's way more effective to make them less useful and effective. Eg. the more combat is interactive, the less is your proxy effective, as you will be able to fully use less character at the time. It could be something simple like rockets targeting place on map and not critter - people would then have to run away from rockets and you'd be just eating lead shots if you were controlling multiple characters at once, due to high predictability of their movement.
That's just an example of one possibility, don't take it as some form of suggestion for rockets.
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In servers that don't support running in combat , supports high health and overall very durable characters like requiem or TLA , it's possible to multitask two characters " fully " at the same time , i know some people who have done something like that. It's something you won't see in 2238 ever. So stop dreaming about " proxy efficiency " , the only thing you will see on proxies in 2238 are taxi's , looters , scouts because to find a low ping public proxy that doesn't crash after each minute is mostly very difficult , even when you find one they usually stop working after a day or two or few hours , if unlucky minutes. Unreliable as fuck.
This topic is about fast relogs , to be precise logins to other characters without any timeout that doesn't require any dual logs on proxies to do so , i don't actually understand why are you talking about what are you talking about ...
You cannot possibly prevent that on client (because that's where people cheat)
Read the whole discussion , there's plenty of information from me , it's better to try ... than do nothing. Last session there was a 10 minute cooldown on relog what was shortened to 3 minutes by most players. My suggestion is to make a 3 minute cooldown for those who do pvp , i don't see anyone putting much effort in bypassing that like it was last session.
since after all topics about fast relog , no developer has even whispered something about that , just a lost cause so i have already accepted that this session will be heavily alt supported , after today's fights i'm considering to add the fourth character witch i bring to large TC fights ... seriously.
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Whats the big deal here? ::)
In 2009 there wasn't a relog cd either. Worked fine for me. Especially loners benefit more from it than PvP apes - which would bypass it anyway in most cases.
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I'm a loner. I see no reason to FR. I play a shitty char with shitty stats that can do everything. Solo players who need to level 2-5 alts for every aspect of the game are making life hard for themselves for no reason.
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Whats the big deal here? ::)
Especially loners benefit more from it than PvP apes -
Read what's the suggestion first , loners won't be touched.
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In servers that don't support running in combat , supports high health and overall very durable characters like requiem or TLA , it's possible to multitask two characters " fully " at the same time , i know some people who have done something like that. It's something you won't see in 2238 ever.
I don't give a damn about the rest of your post, but you really should talk to people who have played this game a bit longer than you. There are a few in your gang, educate yourself before you start talking bullshit again.
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Oh of course you saw something years ago how does that change anything currently ? Maybe only your ego. It's something you won't see in 2238 ever. I don't know how about your english but that's " will not " , i'm not denying it's never happened.
Who do you think are those " few people who have done something like that " ? Smartass where smartass isn't needed.
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Oh of course you saw something years ago how does that change anything currently ? Maybe only your ego. It's something you won't see in 2238 ever.
Who do you think are those " few people who have done something like that " ? Smartass where smartass isn't needed.
The fact you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done, and the fact that you're saying that it won't happen doesn't mean shit because in all honesty you don't know much. You're just posting garbage here and yes, people have used 2 combat alts at one time and yes, those people are still playing and no, it's not that hard. The only reason it doesn't happen often is the "no dual-log in combat" rule (which is pretty easy to enforce) and the fact that it's quite tiresome.
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The fact you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done, and the fact that you're saying that it won't happen doesn't mean shit because in all honesty you don't know much.
What makes you so sure i haven't tried ? It's inefficient , furthermore tiresome isn't a excuse for me. Now i want to see you miserably try to convince me how good is that if " you can properly do it " , what a load of bullshit. Before you start yapping in the wrong direction again , just go ahead try with few of your " experienced " BBS members to fight us with two characters at the same time , i want to see your extensive knowledge of the game come into play. So i can have a laugh afterwards.
It doesn't happen because it doesn't work well in practice.
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*meanwhile, three of triple8's alts are seen on respawn, but he's threatening the community to exp another one so he'll die with 4 of them one after another*
Oh, what the fuck, can't we just ignore that dude? He has spent like 3 months in hinkley on failed attempts to kill anyone with his lame sg sniper, then he joined the rogues and became the biggest mouth. srsly, the best thing he's doing is posting total garbage on forums and changing his avatar/title once per day.
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I don't get it what's there still to discuss whether or not fr gives good advantage in pvp. I did my first pvp fastrelog yesterday and it was nothing I could ever pull out in mundane means as fast. My char dies, I jump to another and join the fight. Had there been some cooldown to delay me, it would have had effect.
*meanwhile, three of triple8's alts are seen on respawn, but he's threatening the community to exp another one so he'll die with 4 of them one after another*
Oh, what the fuck, can't we just ignore that dude? He has spent like 3 months in hinkley on failed attempts to kill anyone with his lame sg sniper, then he joined the rogues and became the biggest mouth. srsly, the best thing he's doing is posting total garbage on forums and changing his avatar/title once per day.
I think it's good that at least someone from SoT faction is talking here about stuff they do and see happening. There's nothing worse than a group that does shady stuff and doesn't talk about it.
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He has spent like 3 months in hinkley on failed attempts to kill anyone with his lame sg sniper
What's wrong with that? Everyone starts as a noob, but then slowly gains experience and becomes a better player. How do you know he didn't learn anything?
Just because he has another opinion doesn't mean he's the worse man here.
Thou I share Nice_Boat's point of view in this topic, I know that my truth is not the only truth here. I wouldn't start offending someone because he thinks otherwise. Have some humility.
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....
This just shows how screwed up mentality you have.
Most of that post is quite bullshit anyway , for example i only play hinkley if i am practicing or just having fun and that's only once in a while , not like most of your members that just mindlessly grind frags in hinkley and call them great players , at least that what happened last session.
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...your members that just mindlessly grind frags in hinkley and call them great players , at least that what happened last session...
Master(of verbal destruction). Go level up 4th char, i already have hehe
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Yeah better not touch him or he'll destroy us verbally :D
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I hope your extensive experience won't kill me when i try , deadly knowledge.
Someone could lock this , it's been discussed enough already anyway.
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Here is not kindergarten, better go do something useful.
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U heard skycast triple
stop wasting our time and do something useful :)
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U heard skycast triple
stop wasting our time and do something useful :)
(http://fotki.ykt.ru/albums/userpics/24810/1317350717_facepalm_3.jpg)
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Read the whole discussion , there's plenty of information from me , it's better to try ... than do nothing. Last session there was a 10 minute cooldown on relog what was shortened to 3 minutes by most players. My suggestion is to make a 3 minute cooldown for those who do pvp , i don't see anyone putting much effort in bypassing that like it was last session.
It is irrelevant whether is it 10 or 3 minutes, it WILL be bypassed and achieve nothing. Only real difference between "pvp cooldown" and it sitting there for anyone is the lesser amount of people being bothered with that.
But for people that want to do it this is still the same minor setback, that can be fixed by very minor amount of spoofing.
The number one problem of internet (and not just gaming), always was and will be the identification of person.
So the effort to break any limitation is always very little (especially compared to creating those limitations).
Keep in mind that if you log out of one character, even in combat, only prevention from letting you log back to the server would be tracking user by data (easily spoofed, no matter how complex is it), or by login. Since the game does not charge you anything for creating an account, there is no way that can ever work (though granting relevant bonus to characters on single account could discourage people from abusing this).