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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Roachor on February 28, 2010, 01:06:12 am
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Gridcamping bluesuits is not pvp, so why are all the noob quest towns unguarded? It just makes new players not want to play and it's not like people shoot back at them so it's pretty one sided. There should be pvp in locations like golgotha, places that the only reason you're there is to pvp.
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As soon as a town is open for PVP, that's all it can be.
Nobody uses a bank, because who wants to get shot after withdrawing 20k? Nobody buys gear, you can just get shot as you leave. Nobody wants to do quests there, because who wants to trudge across the worldmap just to get shot by some guy who's been camping the exit grid for the last hour? Yeah, I know there's exceptions, but it's ridiculous you see more people in NCR in a few minutes that you will in an hour or so in Reno.
Enabling PvP in a town just guarantees that it's dead, essentially. I'd rather see more than one town populated.
I don't see why the PvP areas can't be areas actually designed with PvP in mind, rather than just town maps.
Not that it'll change, however. The gangs like their polished turd of a PvP system.
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I dont want to start the flame, but this is wasteland, not Sims.
You have town preview, you have town control capturing cooldown, you have more than half of cities guarded, you have NCR with well know non-stop playing players (ask for help). Just think before you enter the cities.
I created 2 new chars before 2 weeks and i was killed only once in cities during leveling up my char. And i spend much time in unguarded cities during my shoveling shits record hunting :) Just think.
And also, VSB and NA are trying to kill all PKillers too.
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Enabling PvP in a town just guarantees that it's dead, essentially. I'd rather see more than one town populated.
Yesss! We need "No PvP" mode enabled in all cities as soon as possible!
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Make all towns guarded...
Thats where i stoped to read.
But seriously, its nonsense to put guards everywhere, make noob island or any idea like that. New player must see how game looks like on start, so (s)he can decide - is it game for me, or not? If not, (s)he can look for something else on 2nd or 3rd level; if we wait with showing true face of wasteland to 10 level or something like that, we just waste players time.
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One part of it I like:
More meaningful quests in guarded towns.
Fetching someone a pack of cigs in return for 80exp is not even a quest. I get more exp for crafting two guns out of wood.
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New quests will be implemented. Remember this is only a Beta-Test yet.
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A town should be able to be pacified by a gang who has control over it.
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Thats where i stoped to read.
But seriously, its nonsense to put guards everywhere, make noob island or any idea like that. New player must see how game looks like on start, so (s)he can decide - is it game for me, or not? If not, (s)he can look for something else on 2nd or 3rd level; if we wait with showing true face of wasteland to 10 level or something like that, we just waste players time.
I suggest to make "Vault RP project" (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=1883.0) like a safe place where noobs will stay, until they reach 8, or maybe 10 level. After what, they can leave vault, and go to find themselves in wasteland.
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After what, they can leave vault, and go to find themselves in wasteland.
And then can suddenly die becuase of some crazies with miniguns. Mom, dad, what's happened? Who is this cruel man I just met? Why, why, why?
Kind of shock therapy?
It was already mentioned about specified "arenas" for PvP players, and after some time spended on wandering around Wastes I will say "no". This is Wasteland, not Tibia. I already saw some dudes shouting in NCR "free gun plx". Come on.
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Your mileage may vary with this one. To me running through unguarded towns like Broken Hills for essential errands like buying uranium gives me that sense of unknown and imminent danger, weaving in and out of buildings and shit like that. It's a rush, man. As primitive as this game may seem, the player base has done a good job at (if nothing else) instilling that right amount of fear in the uninitiated.
Then again, in the past week I can only recall getting shot at in Klamath and New Reno, and in those cases it was incompetent snipers that fail to land a crit three times in a row with headshots that cost 9 AP to perform. If anything, these "PKers" should shape the fuck up imo
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Thats where i stoped to read.
But seriously, its nonsense to put guards everywhere, make noob island or any idea like that. New player must see how game looks like on start, so (s)he can decide - is it game for me, or not? If not, (s)he can look for something else on 2nd or 3rd level; if we wait with showing true face of wasteland to 10 level or something like that, we just waste players time.
Low level players have no weapons, no armour and very few hp, it's not pvp its slaughtering infants. Broken hills isn't really an issue as the only reason to go there is for higher lvl mats to craft, by that point you should be able to defend yourself. Its more like the den/rew reno/ klamath situation where you have minigunners mowing down lvl 2 chars to get the crap they carry (which is worth less than the ammo they just used to get it).
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Low level players have no weapons, no armour and very few hp, it's not pvp its slaughtering infants. Broken hills isn't really an issue as the only reason to go there is for higher lvl mats to craft, by that point you should be able to defend yourself. Its more like the den/rew reno/ klamath situation where you have minigunners mowing down lvl 2 chars to get the crap they carry (which is worth less than the ammo they just used to get it).
So they can keep close to the guarded cities. NCR, Hub, Junktown.
The problem with newbies is that they quite often start the game without the clue of what is waiting for them (we can do nothing with that), then get spawned i.e. in redding and get shot on the spot (heard such stories several times). Then they think i.e. "I'll go to Klamath, it's the low level town, right?"
WRONG. Another shot on the spot.
I think the simplest thing to make a newbie's life a bit easier is to make new chars spawn only in guarded towns. This way even a completly oblivious new guy will know AT LEAST ONE generally safe place he can stick to.
The other problems with unguarded towns are sadly due to a huge amount of idiocy of trigger-happy Mom-Doesn't-Love-Me-So-I'll-Go-And-Kill-Every-Char-I-Met-And-Show-How-Awesome-I-Am-Robbing-Them-Of-Their-Shovels sort of guys. The problem isn't with PKs but with obsessive sociopatic PKs.
But I don't think we can do enything about it, do we? Maybe an in-game therapy sessions?
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The problem isn't with PKs but with obsessive sociopatic PKs.
But I don't think we can do enything about it, do we? Maybe an in-game therapy sessions?
You make behaving like a sociopath have ingame consequences. Makes sense to me. If you've gunned down a lot of people in cold blood, people ought to treat you like the psycho you are.
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I wonder, how does it come that on TLA there are no guarded towns, still its not dead server. People cooperate to guard they city. One more strange thing is that TC referes to guarding city. Instead we see only instant killing/gridcamping/etc
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I think that what made them (TLA guys) guard cities is that they had little other choice. There were no guarded cities and players NEED to have a place to barter, craft, talk and make fun.
MAYBE if the amount of cash you get for guarding a city would change according to how effectively you can keep order in the town...
hm....
For example:
I: Takeover time: works as usual
II: outside the takeover time:
1. Game marks every PKs in a city. (The same script that marked people red before the wipe, except this don't have to be visible - important thing is that the game remembers town PKs till the end of the "control cycle")
2. Every innocent (not marked char) death in the city lowers the final income (it can drop to 0 caps)
3. PKs (marked ones) deaths have no impact in final income
This way PKs will become natural enemies of the city guards - because they will practically rob them of their money. A faction that wants to have ANY cash form Town Control have to keep order in their city.
Besides, it's logical: guards are paid according to their efficiency, unsafe towns are poorer due to lack of trade, so they cannot afford to pay much
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I think that what made them (TLA guys) guard cities is that they had little other choice. There were no guarded cities and players NEED to have a place to barter, craft, talk and make fun.
MAYBE if the amount of cash you get for guarding a city would change according to how effectively you can keep order in the town...
hm....
For example:
I: Takeover time: works as usual
II: outside the takeover time:
1. Game marks every PKs in a city. (The same script that marked people red before the wipe, except this don't have to be visible - important thing is that the game remembers town PKs till the end of the "control cycle")
2. Every innocent (not marked char) death in the city lowers the final income (it can drop to 0 caps)
3. PKs (marked ones) deaths have no impact in final income
This way PKs will become natural enemies of the city guards - because they will practically rob them of their money. A faction that wants to have ANY cash form Town Control have to keep order in their city.
Besides, it's logical: guards are paid according to their efficiency, unsafe towns are poorer due to lack of trade, so they cannot afford to pay much
If this is implementable this could be a great solution.
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Oh, and there could be also a bonus to 'town control money' based on the trade in the city (some time before all money from town control was taken from trade, now it could be just a bonus). It will be another encouragement for gangs to keep their cities safe.
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As stated before, this is how it used to work - and it didn't work very well.
Anything based on players killing some people and leaving others alone is just doomed. Players refuse to play exactly as you want them to and will do what is best for themselves.
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As stated before, this is how it used to work - and it didn't work very well.
As far as I've remembered, previously the whole town income was based on trade. It didn't work because players still prefered the REALLY safe cities. Now it would be just a bonus. If (accidently or thanks to effort) some city became so safe that that ANYBODY will decide to trade in there, gang in control will get their cut.
Anything based on players killing some people and leaving others alone is just doomed.
Hm... FORCING them to do so - yes, of course, but...
Players refuse to play exactly as you want them to and will do what is best for themselves.
...but making it profitable. It will just be an another way of raising funds.
Keeping PKs away from one's city wouldn't be a must. Nobody will force anybody to do so. Just as the whole fight for control thing isn't obligatory and many gangs (including mine) just don't go for it. But still many do - because it is fun or a challange or simply because it is profitable.
The whole point of my suggestion is to make keeping peace in a city profitable. It is simply a matter of mingling with numbers to make it that even with 100 deaths a day gang will get similar funds than before.
But let them know that if some of them will stop killing other players in their own town, they will get more money
But let them know that if they will stumble across a PK in their city, wasting him will help them in getting more money
But let them know that if they will keep an eye on what is going on in their city, they will get more money.
Because money is a wonderful thing. People do crazy things for money, also in Fonline. They go through tedious process of crafting dozens of unneeded weapons to sel them for money.
They clean brahmin crap for hours for money
They hire themselves as a ore providers for gangs and spend hours on digging that goddamn ore only for money
That is why I sincerely believe that if we give them another opportunity to earn money, SOME of them will go for it. Even if it will be such an irritating, meaningless, tedious and idiotic task of guarding a city they are supposed to guard.
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As stated before, this is how it used to work - and it didn't work very well.
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OK, I'll try to get my hand on some info how exactly did it work in that time and what went wrong before I say anything further. (somehow I cannot imagine that it was anyway worse to give players bonuses for defending a city than now, when it simply doesn't matter). If anybody knows where can I find it, PM me, thx
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Your mind is close my own, DrapiChrust.
There is a similar post just here "New Town Control System".
But I disagree on your town-tag system.
About the devs answer.
There are some "tools" to "drive" players behaviour.
Making it profitable failed... Why not making it a need ?
You can be sure that all such system will failed while people can all done in a near-autarky.
If you are interesed by this thing, I will be happy to work on this with Drapi.
GMs and old players info/feelback about previous system tested would be great.
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Well, and how about this:
In player guarded towns will be same system as in guarded ones(i mean that rekognizing of thief,dangerous etc.), but the function of guards will must take themselfs players(they would shoot unpenalty only on those marked criminals). But if this intruder leave town without punishment then citizens will get angry of theire unsafetly, and after several those leaks of law they will just revolt and depose those town safe keepers(faction). Also the faction will get hourly some stuff, ammo, cash for keepin town safe. Contrloing any town like this will get more prestige, coz it will be harder, but i love this idea hows this game will grow up with more players in future.
Also the towns would be just raidable, if there will be no faction guarding them, but the raided money and stuff will be much lesser, coz of town wouldnt prosper like this, same the stuff will depend on frekvency hows often it gettin raided.
It would work after some play with reputation system etc.
Ye, and sorry for my bad english.
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As stated before, this is how it used to work - and it didn't work very well.
That mean that idea is bad or realization was bad? Or it needed just some time for gang to find that road.
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Why not just make a few designated non-pvp zones? Sure, it kinda degrades the game, but at least It'd give new players a chance to get somewhere so they're not just one shot one kill to higher levels who think it's funny to drive new players away (Which in turn can drive away potential server donations to keep this up and running, or has nobody thought this far out yet?)
You want to keep playing this, and you want to keep it free? Cut back on the PVP and help a few newbies out, not add more guards to towns or make special PVP locations which would take up some more server space and make the Devs do more annoying work. (Which honestly I'd love to get into mapping though if the pvp-arenas would be made)
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I agree with idea, that some cities must be guarded by players themselves.
The thing I disagree is getting money for that - for big gangs, money is worthless. The true beauty would be getting hard-to-get or unobtainable items or advanced building materials, required for otherwise unobtainable items.
Anyway, PK - mark should stay longer (20 min now?), and its duration should increase as more players are killed.
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PK - mark
No, don't make FOnline yet another stupid mmorpg, but with guns instead of swords and magic.
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No, don't make FOnline yet another stupid mmorpg, but with guns instead of swords and magic.
And you think, that this was implemented in those games only because their creators are stupid, and did not invest time in thinking how to cope with this problem?
And in guarded cities, as in real life, murderers should be punished.
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Thats where i stoped to read.
lol
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Problem with town control entailing guarding is that its boring as hell and no one wants to do it. Plus taking control of the town is pretty much the opposite of guarding since you just show up and kill everyone who tries to enter because they could be spies. Also the longer you are in town the more likely another gang will show up and if more than one of you dies you lose a hell of a lot more than the 10k caps you get fr being there.
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What about making profits from TC dependable on the number of people staying alive in controlled town? Maybe it would encourage some gangs to stop killing everything that moves and actually stay in town, not only camp town preview.
Of course this idea could also be abused by alts, but hopefully GM's would cope with that.
Another idea: some "safe" zones, like bars/shops/brahmin pens with small amount of guards, where only gang controlling town would be allowed to kill people without triggering reaction of guards.
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Without reading the thread... Only thing I hate about open PVP towns is that there are a lot of things you can ONLY GET in those towns. And it's just a death trap to go there. Enter town, get burst shot by a gatling gun, or sniped by somebody.
Also yes I've seen that exit grid camping thing, I've seen an entire row of bluesuits blocking the exit grid and one guy with armor and a weapon was killing people who entered.
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Oh, c'mon, it's not that terrible, if you know how to avoid those stupid traps. I've been to Klamath a few times and never get killed in there. Just avoid the main entrance, avoid the rush hour and keep that gun ready and loaded. Good thing is to travel in group of course. The worst thing you can do (although very popular among some people) is act as a looser and left armour and weapon at tent/base ('because they will kill me anyway' - WTF?) Some PKs are noobs and a stupid leather jacket can save you. My char is rather a crafter than a fighter, and until now I had been attacked 3 times and it was 1/1/1 - once I get killed, once managed to escape and once killed the PK. And my char is only level 8...
It's really not that terrible.
EDIT:
Mystyr - I proposed that some time ago. Devs said 'no cos it will not work anyway' or sth like that
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What about a system that shows from time to time (each 3 hours whatever) something "Redding is now protected by guards/patrols". And them guards/patrols are repawned in the city to guard it by 1 hour (or 30 minutes). Of course it can't be in the same time of TC.
This should motivate people to go there, the cities will be able to people who want to do quests or just trade.
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Oh, c'mon, it's not that terrible, if you know how to avoid those stupid traps. I've been to Klamath a few times and never get killed in there. Just avoid the main entrance, avoid the rush hour and keep that gun ready and loaded. Good thing is to travel in group of course. The worst thing you can do (although very popular among some people) is act as a looser and left armour and weapon at tent/base ('because they will kill me anyway' - WTF?) Some PKs are noobs and a stupid leather jacket can save you. My char is rather a crafter than a fighter, and until now I had been attacked 3 times and it was 1/1/1 - once I get killed, once managed to escape and once killed the PK. And my char is only level 8...
It's really not that terrible.
EDIT:
Mystyr - I proposed that some time ago. Devs said 'no cos it will not work anyway' or sth like that
Ehm... Klamath is protected by guards and don't have special minerals/ore
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With current system, small group of new players (not event a gang yet) has to kill a big, mighty gang controlling the city to buy a base. And you think its normal?
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You don't HAVE to kill them, just sneak and go fast is enough... But still dangerous.
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They have guards that attack in the building, where you have to buy base...
Well, but the idea was, that you have to conquer them to get your first base...
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With current system, small group of new players (not event a gang yet) has to kill a big, mighty gang controlling the city to buy a base. And you think its normal?
And what's preventing you from buying a base in Junktown, which is a guarded town?
Besides - what's wrong with the current TC? Some gangs like to have visitors, some run a closed business - it's what they get for defeating the initial militia and keeping the town in their hands. If they want to kill you, that's their choice. If they want to let you in, that's their choice as well. They don't let you trade or dig there? Well, maybe they want to have a specific resource just for themselves? Maybe they'll let you in if you pay them (did anyone even try that before bitching here?)? Don't like it? Take the town, make your own rules.
This thread is full of posts that could be translated into "bad people killed me, so lets have devs punish them." Sorry, not going to happen. If TC lethality/intensity is decreased, it's not going to save your sorry ass - it's going to make it worse, cause gang members will get bored and will go looking for action elsewhere, most probably hunting people like you.
Honestly, it's good as it is. It allows stable control, it allows constant warfare - depending on what people choose to do. Just get rid of the bugs and let it be.
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NO
fallout onlien should't be like other mmorpg with safe towns
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You don't HAVE to kill them, just sneak and go fast is enough... But still dangerous.
With a gang doing tc you'd be lucky if you got in, no chance of getting out.
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Please stop crying every time you got killed! If you want harmless peacefull game, lets go play Hello Kitty online, or go and play normal Fallout 2 singleplayer, there are no PKs!
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i thing it is not possible to create new pvp ground , devs is too busy to try that ;)
+1 :)
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i thing it is not possible to create new pvp ground , devs is too busy to try that ;)
+1 :)
Mines are the new towns.