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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: niba on February 16, 2012, 04:15:23 am
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According to this link http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=21764.15
Solar says "RBtE was a bit weak. Next update helmet anti crit mods will be doubled and RBtE will reduce them by 50%, not 25%."
which means "At the end after update with the perk we'll have the same amount of critical as we have now without the perk."
Oh no ,why nerf sniper again...
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b/c its overpowered ?
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I'll be okay with nerfing criticals from single shot weapons when something similar is done with heavy weapons...
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Coz sniper are still imba? Dude get some self criticism
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I agree that this perk is full shit now, even if it will be increase to -50% people will not use it. You only need ask builds of players and you will understand what they use and what not.
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Sounds like RBtE does the same thing.
Still think a 35% crit snipe with better critical well by pass more crit mod to helmets -10 to -20 still is nothing if you have better critical.
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I agree that this perk is full shit now, even if it will be increase to -50% people will not use it. You only need ask builds of players and you will understand what they use and what not.
Funny, follow the link and you'll see avv saying it will make the perk an automatically taken option.
Just like how some players perpetually say BGs need nerfing and some people are always saying snipers need it. This will never change, because players don't understand their impression of the game is not the one and only truth.
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i always assumed bg was supposed to be overpowered lol i mean it is BIG GUNS and u have to be right beside somebody to actualy get a 1 hit kill. i mean if people QQing about how snipers wont be able to 1 hit kill then there dumb...snipers can kill from across the map with out being seen......but thats just my opinion
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I say its fairly balanced, I mean sniper's make big gunners angry because big gunners are short-mid range power houses, I mean a big gunner gets close to a sniper the sniper always lose. And most big gunners do not have the perception to see 50 hexes away which is annoying when facing snipers.
I do not see any nerfing needed to anything really, it has gotten a lot better since the beginning of the wipe. On average I would say my sniper does like 50-100 damage to head because of bonehead and those big 150-200 crits is not every shot and sometimes its just pure luck. I see this time and time again with my awareness that people forget to wear helmets.
Eye shots are always deadly, and actually my biggiest annoyance playing sniper is laser pistol sneakers or getting shot in my back even with 12 perception a big gunner can shoot where I cannot see. Big gunners need all the tanking abilities they can get they are the ones who have to rush up close so they have to be tough to kill.
A big gun tank swarm is hard to kill yes, but a sg/ew sniper swarm can counter this depending on a map, and big gunners can wear tesla masks. There is a counter to everything and things are fairly balanced in my opinion.
Gattling lasers are very OP but it is a hard weapon to get and there is way to counter them as well. To make a decent sniper it needs less health than most builds to be a power house build and snipers are easily killed they are flimsy.
I think the mistake is people are forgetting to wear helmets, you don't wear a helmet its same as going into battle bluesuit.
Sniper pissing you off? Just find a way to flank them in the back they well not last more than 1-2 shots. Some towns its not possible to do this so make a sniper best way to kill snipers is with a sniper.
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I say its fairly balanced, I mean sniper's make big gunners angry because big gunners are short-mid range power houses, I mean a big gunner gets close to a sniper the sniper always lose. And most big gunners do not have the perception to see 50 hexes away which is annoying when facing snipers.
I do not see any nerfing needed to anything really, it has gotten a lot better since the beginning of the wipe. On average I would say my sniper does like 50-100 damage to head because of bonehead and those big 150-200 crits is not every shot and sometimes its just pure luck. I see this time and time again with my awareness that people forget to wear helmets.
Eye shots are always deadly, and actually my biggiest annoyance playing sniper is laser pistol sneakers or getting shot in my back even with 12 perception a big gunner can shoot where I cannot see. Big gunners need all the tanking abilities they can get they are the ones who have to rush up close so they have to be tough to kill.
A big gun tank swarm is hard to kill yes, but a sg/ew sniper swarm can counter this depending on a map, and big gunners can wear tesla masks. There is a counter to everything and things are fairly balanced in my opinion.
Gattling lasers are very OP but it is a hard weapon to get and there is way to counter them as well. To make a decent sniper it needs less health than most builds to be a power house build and snipers are easily killed they are flimsy.
I think the mistake is people are forgetting to wear helmets, you don't wear a helmet its same as going into battle bluesuit.
Sniper pissing you off? Just find a way to flank them in the back they well not last more than 1-2 shots. Some towns its not possible to do this so make a sniper best way to kill snipers is with a sniper.
its not the problem, the problem is the ammount of time, caps, digging, crafting you need to play both builds, if build A) is twice cheaper, needs less ammo, guns are easy to find, loot than build B) then it must be weaker, but its not the case in this game.
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Funny, follow the link and you'll see avv saying it will make the perk an automatically taken option.
Just like how some players perpetually say BGs need nerfing and some people are always saying snipers need it. This will never change, because players don't understand their impression of the game is not the one and only truth.
Dont need nerf anything, i think that such balance is good. Problem that is some perks that people dont use, an example RBtE or heave ho or +1end/pe/luck/char/str/ag . Therefor people have less ammount of ways in builds for choice. Need remove this perks and introduce new or increase it, then people will have more intresting PvP chars.
Solar, try create grenadier, sniper or BG char. Then you will understand that better take any toughnes that heave ho or tree trunk thighs. When you have option between 2 perks you will take best of them, if even second have any advantage. What is better RBtE(15th lvl demand, lol !) or action boy ? Of coarse all will use action boy instead of RBtE. Try make flamerer build with 285 hp + 2x piromaniacs, take improved flamer, fuel mk2 and go in PvP. You will see that you cant do anything against other bigguners. This mean that x2 poiromaniacs very weak perks, better use BRD+MRD. May be need create only 1 perk piromaniac that give +50 damage. We can take few big factions, an axample SOT, TTTLA+VSB+C88 and Fists and write all their PvP builds.. and after look on statistic. In additional you can come in towns and look on big battles from sneak like Izual...
This is not only my opinion.
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its not the problem, the problem is the ammount of time, caps, digging, crafting you need to play both builds, if build A) is twice cheaper, needs less ammo, guns are easy to find, loot than build B) then it must be weaker, but its not the case in this game.
The big guns and energy weapons by all means are not easy to get. Sure you could trade for a few plasma rifles easiest way or if you are lucky enough to find a blue print to craft plasma rifles or gattling lasers. Farming NCR patrols and rangers by all means is not easy and vault city isn't all that easy either.
Avengers, LSW gattling are not easy to obtain weapons, solo at least but they are very powerful weapons on top of most builds that use them are high to max HP with toughness and psycho depending on build. Snipers are limited sure they shoot 50 hexes but to make a good build you well have to go less than 200 hp route. A max HP sniper that sacrifices luck or agility ends up being a very bad build. A sniper can never take on a big gunner 1v1 if the big gunner gets close enough. If you rush snipers and they have an eye shot on you are good as dead as this is the same with all targeted shot builds.
You can't have it all in this game big gunners have high HP do massive damage but lack range, snipers do massive damage do good crits but lack HP and tanking abilities that is the balance.
Trust me attempting to solo anything like farming sniper rifles is not easy and you well die even with the toughest build, this is a multiplayer game to get the good stuff you need to play with at least 1-3 people in encounters where town patrols fight other things.
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Swarm u are soooo wrong about solo farming ;) Its quite ease to pwn 90% of enc and that 10% is just need 2nd guy to loot shit out
TB is soo imba in that case.
Ew hard to get ? Big fucking lol! Laser rifles is one of easiest weapon to obtain and plasma rifle is pretty shitty now
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I dunno what he is talking about , is he trolling or for real ? This game is not balanced at all. The best example, last wipe talk about lsw/avenger, Solar did past his tables and was all like avenger is the best, end of the story, BUT there is many other factors to consider. I could have used an alt with 9 folowers/ players, cows, doesnt matter, look for SF caravans, use a radio and have 3 lsws str8 away, and thats what im talking about. One gun that is hard to find, that requires tons of ammo and that does 5% more dmg, on the other side lsw cheap easy to find easy to loot, if u dont have ammo all u need is craft ONLY 100 at once and u can go have some pvp.
The same thing here, no balance at all, cheap easy to maintain builds all u need is 50 ammo and easy to find guns from encounter or gatling, avenger builds.
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Solar did past his tables and was all like avenger is the best, end of the story
I think you'll find I said it was the best DPS, then proved that to be the case.
Outside of SF Caravan not existing any more, you're right. There are still some loopholes to farm encounters ... at the moment.
Not sure the LSW or source of .223 is anywhere currently actually. The world editor has just gone crazy, else I'd tell you.
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lsw/avenger was just an example, Lets say u remove ammo and guns from encounters and keep guns/dmg unchanged, in that case its still gonna be imbalanced, it cannot be since u have a gun that is 4 times more expensive and does only 10% more dmg than others ( and the problem begins when u die and lose it all, full loot game ...).
It can only go in 2 directions, assault/shotguns/bigguns/plasma,laser rifle (fast shoots) dps guns, everything else+aim shoots as support - break legs,arms,eyes knock downs, knock outs.
or
rock/paper/scissors - armor/guns system but its another story
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Well, pricing is a different matter, I should change them really, but I'm hanging on until new traders though because everything decent gets cheaper (and the difference between the top and bottom is less) and I don't want everyone buying stuff for 5 tobacco :P
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I dont say that making avenger cheaper will solve the problem out. U will end up with everyone using avengers ...
The way it is now could have been OK if it was no full loot game, but it is.
Altough Aim shoots are overpowered , people who play >60 min a day will not let you change it. Hardcore players - no lifers dont care if u nerf BG, they are gonna waste time and farm/craft avengers just to have 10% more dps no matter what, on the other side little sniper nerf will make u read 50 page whine troll topic.
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So funny to read that for big gunners hard to find weapons. very easy LSW blueprint can be found. Miniguns also can be looted from patrols. And also lvling big guns more easier than sg, craft flamer - go in desert. 5 hours = 24lvl.
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I dont say that making avenger cheaper will solve the problem out. U will end up with everyone using avengers ...
The way it is now could have been OK if it was no full loot game, but it is.
Altough Aim shoots are overpowered , people who play >60 min a day will not let you change it. Hardcore players - no lifers dont care if u nerf BG, they are gonna waste time and farm/craft avengers just to have 10% more dps no matter what, on the other side little sniper nerf will make u read 50 page whine troll topic.
Cost of Avenger won't make much of a difference, as you'll only get them off Encounters anyway.
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So funny to read that for big gunners hard to find weapons. very easy LSW blueprint can be found. Miniguns also can be looted from patrols. And also lvling big guns more easier than sg, craft flamer - go in desert. 5 hours = 24lvl.
as if lvling snipers took more time, or farming guns were more difficult, its all about dps/price/ammo usage
oh and since when people are using miniguns ?
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U will end up with everyone using avengers ...
Yeah, if you nerf everything but Big Gunners. That's why you need to leave snipers and other builds decent and able to kill BGs, so not everyone plays only them when the prices get balanced :)
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its so shortsighted, lets say it, most of the people play snipers b/c its the cheapest to maintain and best eco build that can be done. Thats it, end of the story, and this alone shows that snipers are overpowered. people wanted to nerf bg b/c werent able to fight against hardcore nolifers, developers agreed and bgs had been nerfed. its not like im a biggunner, I just say that its not balanced and some important changes must be done. Why dont people use shotguns? why dont people use burst small guns? Why only see snipers or avenger builds ?
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If someone was asking me, I would say put MUCH more higher prices on almost all weapons. It's easy to get anything. And if brutal death happens the armor should be destroyed. Why? Because there won't be zilion of combat armors and other armors. And maybe it would be good if you can only trade caps to merchants so the caps will get the highest value in the game. Not some prick comes with crap ammo and buys 5 brand new miniguns and 4 metal armors. Better items should be hard to find and EXPENSIVE.
I have big gunner and sniper (energy sniper and small gun sniper). I don't see any disbalance between them. When I'm playing sniper I can kill almost everyone from far away. From close fight I could easy die. Big gunner is good for close range. Not good against snipers from distance. If something needs nerf I would say that heavy handed needs. (hate those trollers with heavy handed unarmed chars)
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There was a talk about fnfal, and I proposed a nice thing, make the upgreaded version do full clip burst, ofc simple answear no gun would be OP. Are u sure? U would have to reload after every shoot, people would start using burst small guns, its just an example, its easy to change this game little by little add more builds and make some perks important without collapsing the system.
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I have big gunner and sniper (energy sniper and small gun sniper). I don't see any disbalance between them. When I'm playing sniper I can kill almost everyone from far away. From close fight I could easy die. Big gunner is good for close range. Not good against snipers from distance. If something needs nerf I would say that heavy handed needs. (hate those trollers with heavy handed unarmed chars)
Ok, so u said that u see both build balanced, cheap to maintain build is as strong as expensive BG, thats what im talking about for the whole time, as a sniper u can get almost any weapon and go farm kill, can a biggunner do the same in the same way ?
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Ok, so u said that u see both build balanced, cheap to maintain build is as strong as expensive BG, thats what im talking about for the whole time, as a sniper u can get almost any weapon and go farm kill, can a biggunner do the same in the same way ?
Flamer is cheap and easy to craft , same as the fuel for it. And flamer can fire 4-6 (maybe more) enemies from single burst. It's fast leveling.
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Flamer is cheap and easy to craft , same as the fuel for it. And flamer can fire 4-6 (maybe more) enemies from single burst. It's fast leveling.
Are u trolling ? Energy/SG sniper can grab any energy/SG gun, and have a decent chance of wining against everything in his way, u want to tell me that flamer can do the same or m60, or rocket laucher???
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What the heck are you talking about? Leveling or killing players? Dude EVERYTHING is easy to get and I don't understand this topic at all and what are you trying to say
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I say how versatile Sniper builds are, and when i say everything i mean it, either players or npcs ...
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I dont say that making avenger cheaper will solve the problem out. U will end up with everyone using avengers ...
The way it is now could have been OK if it was no full loot game, but it is.
Altough Aim shoots are overpowered , people who play >60 min a day will not let you change it. Hardcore players - no lifers dont care if u nerf BG, they are gonna waste time and farm/craft avengers just to have 10% more dps no matter what, on the other side little sniper nerf will make u read 50 page whine troll topic.
Actually, you DID say that playing a big gunner was too expensive compared to lower cost builds. Now making it cheaper to play isn't going to help?
Do you even know what you're complaining about??? Because it keeps changing.
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Killy, my idea is not to nerf nor snipers or big gunners because fights between those are balanced - long range, sniper wins, close range, BG wrecks. My idea is to leave it as it is, but instead balance the PRICES so the cost of maintaining a well-doing sniper is similiar to this of a BGunner.
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No, I keep saying that the system is broken, cannot be balanced as it is now, no matter what u do people will never use small burst guns or shotguns, its either snipers or avenger bgs. When i say balanced i dont mean equal.
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No, I keep saying that the system is broken, cannot be balanced as it is now, no matter what u do people will never use small burst guns or shotguns, its either snipers or avenger bgs. When i say balanced i dont mean equal.
If Assault Rifles had better range, damage closer to that of a sniper on single, and close to that of an avenger on burst, I guarantee you people would use them regardless of cost. You said it yourself, we'll go to great lengths to obtain the extra 5% of anything we can. If Mausers were the weapon that did the best damage, with the best range, people would use those.
Look at SD bursters, there were so many of them... because they did the damage. They were OP like hell, so you saw that trend in the builds people were playing.
Since little in this game is realistic, what do you suggest to fix a broken system???
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I just want to say that everyone is using eye shots because other body part shots aren't worth it.
I would love to see better limb shots. No one uses cripplers anymore because they're inferior :'(
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I just want to say that everyone is using eye shots because other body part shots aren't worth it.
I would love to see better limb shots. No one uses cripplers anymore because they're inferior :'(
Ahh... lol, you sure about that?
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Nope, not really sure
But I haven't seen many cripplers and big guns and sniper seems to be the talk of the town.
I mean I use a crippler but I just always aim for the eyes because I tried breaking someone's leg and that took me nowhere
I was hoping for an increase in chances to break a leg at the cost of decreasing damage when shooting at leg. And increased chances to drop weapon when shooting at hand at the same cost.