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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: peruniec on February 09, 2012, 04:15:50 pm
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Now FN FAL has worese dmg than AR, lower range, less bullet in burst, and ammo is much more harder to make ammo.
And ammo is harder to make, because M60 use same ammo, and FN FAL is useless.
Make some mayby two type of 7.62 ammo ?
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Maybe fn fal isn't meant to be so strong. It's damn easy to get.
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And AR is similar easy to get, and 5mm ammo is so easy to make.
And AR is cheaper.
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Presuming 2 BRD FN FAL/AR should look like this:
None 1.020331061
LJ 1.252739803
CLJ 1.297397704
LA 1.281844485
LA2 1.355927755
M 1.297397704
M2 1.373404805
Tesla 1.281844485
CA 1.220245551
CA2 1.262778148
BCA 1.211445703
FN FAL is 18 - 25 at the moment?
Where are these so easy to get now?
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Presuming 2 BRD FN FAL/AR should look like this:
None 1.020331061
LJ 1.252739803
CLJ 1.297397704
LA 1.281844485
LA2 1.355927755
M 1.297397704
M2 1.373404805
Tesla 1.281844485
CA 1.220245551
CA2 1.262778148
BCA 1.211445703
FN FAL is 18 - 25 at the moment?
Where are these so easy to get now?
Still AR is better ecomonically - You can't get 7.62 mm in other way than shooting NCR Army (hard) or craft, getting 5mm ap and jhp is so easy now.
Also FN fal compared to M60 is just small cannnon using same ammo and same amount per burst.
I never used so much fn fal because it wasnt good rifle, anytime assault rifle got buffed it overwhelmed FN Fal automatically. I suggest buffing dmg of FN fal - its using 7.62 mm not 5mm thingie.
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Well fn fals are also easy to get, so it is said.
Where is all this free stuff coming from? 5mm jhp should be plentiful, but the others shouldn't be
M60s also don't allow you to run.
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Well fn fals are also easy to get, so it is said.
Where is all this free stuff coming from? 5mm jhp should be plentiful, but the others shouldn't be
M60s also don't allow you to run.
Who does need to run when he can kill enemy in one-two shoots ^^.
5mm jhp gives nice dmg to the Assault Rifle, and its pretty cheap, 5mm ap can be obtained by stealing , and 7.62mm? Only crafting & farming in low quanities. Still I didn't say that its free stuff :P. Well anyway now Iam not into SG stuff because Iam mostly playing now BG, and just saying that burst of ammount 10 bullets give other damage at two different weapons.
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... 7.62 is easy to get khan raiders leader of the group has a fn fal and usally 60 ammo or so. farm them for 1 hour you have a thousand easy. no need for too different types.
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Actually, jhp could do with a little extra DR since the armours changed a bit. They don't cross in the right places any more.
The FN FAL seems fine to me.
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... 7.62 is easy to get khan raiders leader of the group has a fn fal and usally 60 ammo or so. farm them for 1 hour you have a thousand easy. no need for too different types.
When I finally get my improved flamer I'll start farming, but I can't get focking blueprints.
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Incidentally, this is the order of burst damage if you have 2BRD, BRoF (expressed in terms of Tommy Gun damage :) ) against CA
Gatling Minigun 3.024459655
Avenger AP 2.795314642
HPFA 2.539285919
Minigun AP 2.466454096
PID_M60 2.443721395
PID_PANCOR_JACKHAMMER 2.404258973
PID_HK_CAWS 2.23743284
p90c AP 2.216156083
PID_FN_FAL 2.096958694
PID_LIGHT_SUPPORT_WEAPON 2.095068407
XL 70 Ap 1.98623957
PID_SAWED_OFF_SHOTGUN 1.72714114
AR AP 1.718472723
PID_HK_P90C 1.69586124
PID_AVENGER_MINIGUN 1.661611181
SMG AP 1.645000006
PID_MINIGUN 1.453909783
PID_COMBAT_SHOTGUN 1.354235666
PID_GREASE_GUN 1.333333333
PID_SHOTGUN 1.295355855
PID_10MM_SMG 1.228686735
xl70 1.215868109
PID_ASSAULT_RIFLE 1.033667803
PID_TOMMY_GUN 1
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This idea is bullsh...
MAn do a usable char and use better weapons than FNFal.Man,not every weapon is da best.With this cahnge 9mm pistol cause its too weak,do new ammo for Assult cause u using da same ammo for Miniguns too.......
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I would really like to see the upgreaded version doing full clip burst, that would cr8 more builds and make some of the perks more important
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Full burst would make it too deadly unless there was some entertaining factor added to the weapon along the lines of a .1-.2% chance per det on weapon to explode in your face when fired (only with full burst not with single shot) because you made the weapon unstable. That would add a shit ton of funny moments.
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Why is the Sawed-off Shotgun burst damage greater than an Assault Rifle? How exactly did you test this?
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If you looked higher the AP AR is much greater than the sawed off shotgun. PID seems like JHP or a variant similar if it has one for the weapon types, since they are wearing combat armor JHP types are obviously terrible.
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PID_SAWED_OFF_SHOTGUN 1.72714114
AR AP 1.718472723
Not only that, but according to this chart the sawed off also does more than the combat shotty which should really not be possible, ever.
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Sawed off is in a bit of a false position, because that doesn't take into account reloading - which the sawed off has to do each burst.
Those are just averaged over 10ap which is fine for most of them because they can fire over 10ap without having to reload.
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Is this also over range and not point blank? I would assume so which could account for why the shotguns have good damage (all of their burst hits target right?)
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all of their burst CAN hits target right?
Fixd
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Yes, at range.
Its easy enough to adjust for loading times, just work each weapons ratio to firing/reloading and adjust the numbers
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Crazy if your going to try to correct someones English, at least do it correctly since it would be CAN hit/WILL hit. Also go back to English class anyways because my way of saying it was correct minus a punctuation error.
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Lets make it short: The game could earn something with a little weapon realism added.
_The thing that kills is the bullet, not the gun. If the M60 does this ammount of damage, and the FAL is using the same ammo, then the damage output should be really close.
_The gun affects accuracy, usually, the longer the barrel, the more accurate the shot will be (but then it should be less affected by luck, luck should affect mostly spray and pray weapons.
_The gun affects muzzle velocity, the longer the barrel, the faster the bullet will go, fast bullets don't really do more damage, but they pierce more armor.
_The gun affects recoil, depending on its weight, and its special features (HKG11 for example has a 3 round burst 2000rpm with no recoil feature)
_The bullets affects everything: accuracy, armor piercing, muzzle velocity, damage and recoil.
Maybe opening a thread with "Weapon changes" would be a better idea...
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Incidentally, this is the order of burst damage if you have 2BRD, BRoF (expressed in terms of Tommy Gun damage :) ) against CA
Gatling Minigun 3.024459655
Avenger AP 2.795314642
HPFA 2.539285919
Minigun AP 2.466454096
PID_M60 2.443721395
PID_PANCOR_JACKHAMMER 2.404258973
PID_HK_CAWS 2.23743284
p90c AP 2.216156083
PID_FN_FAL 2.096958694
PID_LIGHT_SUPPORT_WEAPON 2.095068407
XL 70 Ap 1.98623957
PID_SAWED_OFF_SHOTGUN 1.72714114
AR AP 1.718472723
PID_HK_P90C 1.69586124
PID_AVENGER_MINIGUN 1.661611181
SMG AP 1.645000006
PID_MINIGUN 1.453909783
PID_COMBAT_SHOTGUN 1.354235666
PID_GREASE_GUN 1.333333333
PID_SHOTGUN 1.295355855
PID_10MM_SMG 1.228686735
xl70 1.215868109
PID_ASSAULT_RIFLE 1.033667803
PID_TOMMY_GUN 1
This is good (my opinion) I wouldn't change anything
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Crazy if your going to try to correct someones English, at least do it correctly since it would be CAN hit/WILL hit. Also go back to English class anyways because my way of saying it was correct minus a punctuation error.
Chill dude, I know I have an awful english and I wasn't correcting your grammar, I just made your sentence more accurate. No, all bullets of a shotgun burst won't automatically hit, but yes, they can all hit. No, it's not very important, but I prefer when things are clear, I myself came to have wrong thinking about some mechanism in the past due to inaccuracy in forum posts.
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This is good (my opinion) I wouldn't change anything
I think the HPFA might be a touch high, LSW maybe a touch low, but I'm reasonably happy with how bursts relate to each other at the moment.
I want to add a perk which stops your DT getting reduced by AP ammo, that would mix things up a little bit without having to change all the weapons ;) (There's always something that can be tinkered with somewhere!)
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If you plan on adding a perk like that please have it have a luck or something requirement, it seems as though too many of the perks have endurance or strength or agility requirement and very few require anything else. :'( (Besides appropriate weapon skill)
@ Crazy my mistake then but I would assume 80-90% of the people would make the assumption the bullets have a max 95% chance to hit.
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LSW maybe a touch low
But you can run with LSW right? Maybe a little better damage but nothing fancy, hell you can burst and run away (hide) but the guy with m60/minigun can't run! :)
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Yes, the reason LSW is lower is because we are experimenting with the M60/LSW and if boosting damage at the cost of running is practicable. It won't be changing until something comes of that.
HPFA was higher on the game than I had on my spreadsheet, so maybe I just forgot to change it ... though is it even on the game at the moment?
If you plan on adding a perk like that please have it have a luck or something requirement, it seems as though too many of the perks have endurance or strength or agility requirement and very few require anything else. (Besides appropriate weapon skill)
I'm not a fan of introducing SPECIAL requirements that you have to play around with to get perks really, it just limits build potential. I could put CH 10 on BRoF and stop it being a dump stat, but it wouldn't achieve anything :P
If SPECIAL requirements are there, I try to keep it in keeping with what the aim of the perk is, En for toughness perks, Luck for criticals, etc.
The perk wouldn't really be all that powerful, against Miniguns, sure, but stuff without AP ammo would be unaffected. So high damage low bullet weapons would gain some against those targets and low damage high bullets would lose. I don't think it'd be an automatic choice.
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HPFA was higher on the game than I had on my spreadsheet, so maybe I just forgot to change it ... though is it even on the game at the moment?
Don't think so.
I'm not a fan of introducing SPECIAL requirements that you have to play around with to get perks really, it just limits build potential. I could put CH 10 on BRoF and stop it being a dump stat, but it wouldn't achieve anything :P
If SPECIAL requirements are there, I try to keep it in keeping with what the aim of the perk is, En for toughness perks, Luck for criticals, etc.
I do agree, though it sometimes lead to weird situation: for example, you basically killed all EN4 build because you can't get livegiver, and no livegiver with 4EN is just way too low HP.
The perk wouldn't really be all that powerful, against Miniguns, sure, but stuff without AP ammo would be unaffected. So high damage low bullet weapons would gain some against those targets and low damage high bullets would lose. I don't think it'd be an automatic choice.
A perk like that would pretty much kill all 5mm burst weapon. Maybe reducing the loss, but full it would be just way too powerful.
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Yes, the reason LSW is lower is because we are experimenting with the M60/LSW and if boosting damage at the cost of running is practicable. It won't be changing until something comes of that.
hmm idea about walking with BG is nice ... but I cant realy imagine guy with minigun (also avenger laser gatling ...)and full backpack of ammo be more mobilite than guy with M60 or LSW.
Fine LSW is not as strong as M60 or minigun or similiar weapon to that skin but why is M60 chosen to be walking weapon.
If it is about power of these weapons it will give you result to make all bg and gatling laser walking weapons only except LSW.
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Incidentally, this is the order of burst damage if you have 2BRD, BRoF (expressed in terms of Tommy Gun damage :) ) against CA
Gatling Minigun 3.024459655
Avenger AP 2.795314642
HPFA 2.539285919
Minigun AP 2.466454096
PID_M60 2.443721395
PID_PANCOR_JACKHAMMER 2.404258973
PID_HK_CAWS 2.23743284
p90c AP 2.216156083
PID_FN_FAL 2.096958694
PID_LIGHT_SUPPORT_WEAPON 2.095068407
XL 70 Ap 1.98623957
PID_SAWED_OFF_SHOTGUN 1.72714114
AR AP 1.718472723
PID_HK_P90C 1.69586124
PID_AVENGER_MINIGUN 1.661611181
SMG AP 1.645000006
PID_MINIGUN 1.453909783
PID_COMBAT_SHOTGUN 1.354235666
PID_GREASE_GUN 1.333333333
PID_SHOTGUN 1.295355855
PID_10MM_SMG 1.228686735
xl70 1.215868109
PID_ASSAULT_RIFLE 1.033667803
PID_TOMMY_GUN 1
What is the unit of measurement you used in the numerator and denominator to arrive to these ratios?
damage per one burst?
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I believe Solar said it was based off of 10 ap excluding reloads which is why the regular shotguns are pretty high up. (If this is the case does that mean that the larger weapons only got 1 burst instead of the 2 a powerbuild would do?)
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I work out the damage one shot does, then adjust it to 10ap.
Say the gun had 5ap burst, I'd double it - if if was 8ap I'd times it by 1.25. Its just a simple way of comparing them to give a general comparison.
To give the values in that little table I then divided them all by the lowest damage, which was the tommy gun.
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That's a very rt combat oriented table. In tb you can't use every action point to shoot.
You might want to consider a tb combat table in which you multiply the burst damages by the maximum number of bursts possible per turn (x2 for rifles and big guns, x3 for smgs) so you have ratios of maximum possible damage in one turn.