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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Cryofluid on December 28, 2009, 03:00:57 pm
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My previous suggestion on nma was impossible because of a feature not implemented in fonline engine, I will try again.
This time I hope it won't involve those ugly “dynamic objects”...
Let's take 3 of the most representative NPC factions in fallout: BOS, The Enclave, and the Unity (Remnants of the Master's Army). I will call these NPC factions "Orders" to simplify.
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1669/bosw.jpg) (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5607/enclave.jpg) (http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3568/themasters.jpg)
Those Orders would certainly like to spread their influence over the Wasteland.
=> Players can help them to through the creation of Outposts.
This time those outposts won't be upgradeable.
Creation of an Outpost:
Very similar to the creation of a base. You go to Enclave, BOS or Cathedral NPC and propose your help.
You pay 30 000 caps and choose a town from the list the NPC propose to you (every town of the wasteland can be chosen or only unguarded towns?).
Then your Outpost is created near the town you have chosen.
(teal circle for Enclave, orange circle for BOS, red circle for The Unity)
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6855/outpostmap.th.jpg) (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/outpostmap.jpg/)
No more than 3 outposts can be created around a town (to avoid Spam).
You will be granted from 1 to 6 soldiers representative of the Order to keep your Outpost=>it will depend on your speech skill (and karma?).
Example:
I go to The cathedral with 2 of my teammates and 30 000 caps, I ask the NPC for an Outpost near Gecko. It will be an outpost for The Unity.
My speech is average so he gives 3 guards to defend my Outpost.
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3250/unityoutpostmap.jpg)
NB:
- If your faction choose to build an Outpost for an Order, you will only be able to build outpost from that Order. I mean if I build an Enclave Outpost I couldn't build a BOS or Master Outpost. I will have to destroy it before.
- Your Outpost will only be visible by your team until you go in it. Then it will appear for all.
- You can't build 2 outposts in a row, you need to wait one week.
Advantage of an Outpost:
1- If you keep your Outpost for at least 15 min (in real), then a caravan will come and grant you for around 15 000 caps of stuff (stuff depending on the Order?).
2- Every week (in game), a caravan from the town nearby brings good stuffs and caps to your Outpost footlocker. And this for EACH outpost created.
2bis- Every week (in game), you will be granted one more soldier to your outpost (without exceeding an amount of 6).
3- If a town has 3 Outposts of the same Order (Enclave, BOS or Unity) around it=>
All 3 Outposts will be granted an extra amount of stuffs every week.
Example: if my faction build a BOS outpost around Brokenhill where there are already 2 BOS outposts of other factions, I will have interest in defending outposts of other factions too.
How to destroy an Outpost:
If a group kill all the guards that has been granted to you (500 HP each?), you will lose your Outpost.
=> The faction will have to protect and heal the guards to save its outpost.
When a stranger go in an outpost, he won't be attacked by the guards unless he has bad karma with the Order or if he is aggressive to them (or faction will decide of guards behaviour?).
Options:
Option 1:
If a town has 3 Outposts of the same Order (Enclave, BOS or Unity) around it
=>this Order will have TC (it means no player at all will have access to footlocker of the town)=> the TC stuff will be dispatched equally to the 3 outposts.
=> Soldiers of this Order will spawn in town and will attack any players who have bad karma in this Order.
=>Those soldiers will leave the city only if ALL 3 outposts are destroyed.
Option 2:
You can take your outpost's guards with you to attack an enemy outpost nearby (not of the same Order of course).
To conclude:
If this idea is possible (and shared by other players and developers of course) it will have the advantage of avoiding constant gangs wars in town.
Moreover, it could bring some sense of the Wasteland time line: domination of Enclave, BOS or The Unity decided by the players.
Waiting for your comments...
BOS outpost: THe Enclave Outpost: The Master Outpost:
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6661/bosoutpost.jpg) (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/bosoutpost.jpg/) (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/647/enclaveoutpost.jpg) (http://img526.imageshack.us/i/enclaveoutpost.jpg/) (http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1223/unityoutpost.jpg) (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/unityoutpost.jpg/)
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Let's take 3 of the most representative NPC factions in fallout: BOS, The Enclave, and the Unity (Remnants of the Master's Army). I will call these NPC factions "Orders" to simplify.
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1669/bosw.jpg) (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5607/enclave.jpg) (http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3568/themasters.jpg)
Master! OK, you bought me. No, really, I like it. And I must admit that previously I automatically rejected it because of dynamic objects. Not like we don't want them, it's just not possible for now.
Got a question about outpost ownership:
- Your Outpost will only be visible by your team until you go in it. Then it will appear for all.
By team you're refering to gang? Or team of players that went to the NPC to "buy" it?
1- If you keep your Outpost for at least 15 min (in real), then a caravan will come and grant you for around 15 000 caps of stuff (stuff depending on the Order?).
This could go in par with something we're planning since some time. Basically, as a reward for serving some npc faction (in your terms "Order"), you get points, that you can trade for services later. That's why it doesn't have to be flat caps reward, players could get those points, and trade them at respective factions.
For example: Brotherhood CA at BoS, some advanced weapons etc.
PS. I still think NCR could play big role in it.
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Like that idea too. I also like the pictures of those outposts.
Two things:
1) It could be a way to increase ur reputation (there are still no real opportunities to do this) for the 3 factions AND for the cities you guard with the outposts.
2) It might be better to have some different prices for the three types of outposts. Enclave Outposts seem to be way better because they are guarded by Guards in PA. So either you make those NPC Guards equal to each other (they got the PA as skin but do have the same Armor Class and Dmg-reduces like the npcs from the other factions) or you increase the price for such an outpost.
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How is it an advantage to stop constant town warfare?
And this suggestion sounds terrible, you're basically creating something that has to be held for a very small window each week and has super strong guards there anyway.
Improvements to town control instead of another system that is basically the same idea is a better use of time.
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By team you're refering to gang? Or team of players that went to the NPC to "buy" it?
This could go in par with something we're planning since some time. Basically, as a reward for serving some npc faction (in your terms "Order"), you get points, that you can trade for services later. That's why it doesn't have to be flat caps reward, players could get those points, and trade them at respective factions.
For example: Brotherhood CA at BoS, some advanced weapons etc.
PS. I still think NCR could play big role in it.
Oh yeah, would be nice to have specific stuff related to npc factions.
By team i was refering to gang
And yep, i think NCR has also a background rich enough to be part of the Wasteland domination.
Like that idea too. I also like the pictures of those outposts.
Two things:
1) It could be a way to increase ur reputation (there are still no real opportunities to do this) for the 3 factions AND for the cities you guard with the outposts.
2) It might be better to have some different prices for the three types of outposts. Enclave Outposts seem to be way better because they are guarded by Guards in PA. So either you make those NPC Guards equal to each other (they got the PA as skin but do have the same Armor Class and Dmg-reduces like the npcs from the other factions) or you increase the price for such an outpost.
=> i agree with your two points (i'd prefer different prices than APA nerfing)
And this suggestion sounds terrible, you're basically creating something that has to be held for a very small window each week and has super strong guards there anyway.
You misundertood my point:
First, you can create or attack an outpost at any time (recover of goods for the one who has destroyed it could also be considered).
Secondly the strength of the guards has to be tested to have a good balance (neither too easy nor too hard to be killed).
As for constant town warfare, Badger explained this better than me in another post=====>>>>
I think it might be worth moving this whole 'Town Control' thing away from towns to 'Key Areas'. Both existing and new. Places like the Ghost Farm, Sierra, etc. - people need to be rewarded for visiting there so we add good traders. It gives PKers interesting areas to fight over without shitting on everyone who isn't in their faction. Everyone needs to use towns at some point, so putting them in the hands of angry men with itchy trigger fingers doesn't make a good game. I loved the idea of Town Control, but it didn't work out. It isn't guarding the town, it's instead making it unusable to anyone who isn't your faction.
Forcing all players into such high conflict zones is inevitably a recipe for disaster. It sounds cool that people 'control towns', but the reality is that it means they kill anyone who enters because they could be SEKRIT ENEMY FAKTION SPY!!! It's questionable whether the people of Modoc would reward thugs that shoot anyone that comes into town, thereby running their economy into the ground.
Besides, this feature isn't meant to change TC: they can stay as they are.
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"First, you can create or attack an outpost at any time (recover of goods for the one who has destroyed it could also be considered)."
This means that unless you are online 24/7 your base will get fucked over.
I'd simply find the bases owned by Americans, hit them up during Euro morning.
Russian bases? Late Euro night.
Create any time? Yeah sure because the limit of 3 per town won't get taken up instantly oh no.
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I think it's a good idea !
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This means that unless you are online 24/7 your base will get fucked over.
1) Depends on the strength of the guards. With 3 guards with 500 HP each, it can be very hard to destroy. A strong team could do it for sure=> that's why i say the strength of the guards has to be tested to find the good balance. By good balance, i mean that it has to be a challenge to destroy an outpost even if there is only NPC in it.
2) Other teams can help to defend your outpost while you are offline (the faction which have an outpost of the same Order than you will have interest to defend it).
3) Imagine that you have a big faction and want to destroy all the outposts (Delamore The Rebel!). You go on World map and see 10 or 12 outposts scattered around different towns => it will be a great challenge to destroy them all!(great challenge =fun no?)
Create any time? Yeah sure because the limit of 3 per town won't get taken up instantly oh no.
I repeat to be clear (or try to be): A faction which create 1 outpost couldn't create another one before one week (one week in game).
Now imagine a series of 3 factions which want to dominate a town instantly (and worse: option 1 is active!) => they all go to the same NPC (for example The Enclave) and each build an outpost around that town.
=> Well it seems something very bad has happened to The Wasteland (without irony)=> A town is under The Enclave control=>nobody except ones with good Enclave karma will be able to enter this town (or will be shot by Enclave patrol spread all over the city)!
=> the only way to free town will be to destroy all 3 outposts=> i hope you will find enough people to gather and put an end to that tyranny...
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I think Delamore is simply disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, however, what's to keep a single order from eventually running the wastes? I think there should be a limit to how many towns an order should run. A few suggestions I could put out there to limit this feature 2 towns to an order, Maybe even keep gangs from making too many outposts, or making it so members would have to be part of a faction before creating an outpost.
This would definitely make Town Control more interesting, and would actually make NPC factions seem a little more lively.
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or making it so members would have to be part of a faction before creating an outpost.
Yes.
For instance, only players with sufficient karma could be allowed to create an outpost.
=> to increase karma, player could have several options:
1) doing quests for the NPC faction. Those quests will help player to understand the faction 's way of thinking and projects.
2) destroying other NPC factions' outposts
3) other ways already implemented or to be implemented (i mean developers have already in mind a lot of things about karma so i don't want to interfere too much...)
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1) Depends on the strength of the guards. With 3 guards with 500 HP each, it can be very hard to destroy. A strong team could do it for sure=> that's why i say the strength of the guards has to be tested to find the good balance. By good balance, i mean that it has to be a challenge to destroy an outpost even if there is only NPC in it.
If it's a challenge with only NPCs, what happens when players are there? It becomes impossible to take?
Now imagine a series of 3 factions which want to dominate a town instantly (and worse: option 1 is active!) => they all go to the same NPC (for example The Enclave) and each build an outpost around that town.
=> Well it seems something very bad has happened to The Wasteland (without irony)=> A town is under The Enclave control=>nobody except ones with good Enclave karma will be able to enter this town (or will be shot by Enclave patrol spread all over the city)!
=> the only way to free town will be to destroy all 3 outposts=> i hope you will find enough people to gather and put an end to that tyranny...
You said that an advantage to this was moving conflict away from cities, yet now you talk of putting it right back in there 24/7 until the bases get removed? This shows how little thought you have put into the suggestion.
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If it's a challenge with only NPCs, what happens when players are there? It becomes impossible to take?
=> i repeat: to be tested, a middle ground can be found like all other issues in game.
You said that an advantage to this was moving conflict away from cities, yet now you talk of putting it right back in there 24/7 until the bases get removed? This shows how little thought you have put into the suggestion.
=> except that it is far more difficult to get TC in my way : 3 different gangs with each good karma in NPC faction to have TC instantly for the NPC faction not for the gangs => TC goods transfered to outposts during the NPC faction' control of the town
=> and i said "If Option 1 is active which is only an option"=> i repeat this feature could be apart from TC (though i think it would be better to have both: current TC system (town fights) + outposts' fights=> more fighting grounds mean more players will be able to wander in cities without being under factions'fire)
=> please try to think a bit more before writing: at the beginning your criticisms were constructive but now it's boring...
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From what I understand, the conflict will be outside of the city, just not far from the city. People who are Neutral with Enclave will not be attacked, people who are hated by the enclave will be shot on sight, unless they release the town from enclave control. If good characters don't want to get shot at, they can remove the Enclave and put BoS or NCR in charge. This makes perfect sense to me, and it's not like Cryo is programming this, he's simply suggesting it. If this feature gets implemented the Devs will be working on the balance, not Cryo. Things like this go under testing for a reason, be it solidifying a script, faulty mapping, imbalanced gameplay features, or straight-out fucked up bugs. If this gets implemented the devs are going to tinker with the idea, find exploits, and release it, and the beta testers(That's us) will report whatever bugs/exploits/imbalances we experience.
I'm not really going to debate further than that to avoid what I believe may turn into a flamewar, I believe it would be better advised and simply state why you disagree with it in detail, and remain civil.
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Since this wasn't thrown in with the rest of the bodies I guess its still up for debate so let me start by saying:
"Awesomesauce"
The idea in general is great and would bring new taste to the game's PVP but........
If one gang has a enclave and another does also, will they be able to fight each other? It doesn't make sense if they did because it would be Envlace VS Enclave :/.
Would spam the WorldMap too much.
Keep the normal bases please so if there is a limit of faction bases to each town at least a gang will be able to still get bases.
Having all those uber powerful factions roam around all the towns is ridiculous. Too many people will be killed and pissed off.
I could go on a little longer but how bout some good stuff before I finish:
I would love to be able to destroy a faction's base and take their shit, it'd be like command and conquer :P.
Would give factions a good reason to buy defense mercenaries for their base, and actually stand a chance since they can have as many as they want and customize their weaponry and place them tactically.
Would be epic to see a 15 person pk team attacking another gang's base to try and pillage it, just plain awesome.
Would lower the Ghost Town rate. (well maybe ::))
Give NPC factions a reason to exist in the game besides just proffession holders and mobs...
Anyways thats my opinion and judging from the poll most everyone else wants this.
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I LOVE the Idea, The Only thing to Improve is that there should be more Factions avaliable, For Example,
Redding Police,
NCR Rangers.
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To destroy an outpost, I suggest instead of destroying the guards you need to kill the "Outpost Master" (whom you can buy new guards, maybe). This guy could have like 1000+ hps and be in a separate room inside the outpost (locked door/blocked by a guard), and surrounded with blocked tiles to prevent him from running away.
Not much to say on this old debate that needs comments from both players and developers. I'd say that it NEEDS to be a feature for NPC factions, and not for players gangs. Players gangs can do town control, and that feature would be the first step to make a NPC faction useful.
In a more general way, I think reward should be longer to come in, and that you could only create maybe two outposts for your (NPC) faction. This way, we will have outposts that last longer, with a middle-term role. They need to last longer to attract newbies there (And it's easy, just put in a brahmins pen or a caravan boxes lifting job, maybe a workbench, and you'll get plenty of guys coming), and to have (If we keep the "Outpost Master" idea) more guards but with low HP, guards that wouldn't attack anyone from the concerned NPC faction, whatever they do. Attracting players there would be needed for the outpost creators, because they always need more players in their faction. By making a safe and interesting outpost (with huge PvP from times to times :D), they make their faction more attractive and can hire new players in it.
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Once again I support this idea, and not only because he is in my team but because this is a good idea.
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As far i understood, the existence of the outpost depends on the presence of the player team, disregarding, how much NPC guards are present, since they are mostly support.
So it won't be guarded 24/7 by NPCs and will be abandoned, when the players are done playing? (Of course, it could be prolonged and even left overnight with more mercenaries).
Also, it can be attacked from every direction.
Now, wouldn't it make sense, if the outpost had walls with some overview over the terrain, so the present team could report the reinforcements which spawn point they have to take? I suppose, the outpost would have multiple spawn points.
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nice nice, good bases to north pkers :P
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=> i agree with your two points (i'd prefer different prices than APA nerfing
Nope, youre wrong. Everyone would have enclave because it would be the strongest. thats why they would need to be balanced.
I dont agree with you to the guards being in the town... militia is good now for TC, maybe for the sake of variety...
All in all youd like to create multiple TC towns? Its pointless. Rather than interfering with the TC Id like to see outpost wars. Your idea needs polishing :)
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I think that every outpost(not only near your city) must be important for NPC-driven factions and their followers, than it will be much easier to control it, because if your outpost will be attacked, all followers of faction will have a profit for protecting your outpost.
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To destroy an outpost, I suggest instead of destroying the guards you need to kill the "Outpost Master" (whom you can buy new guards, maybe). This guy could have like 1000+ hps and be in a separate room inside the outpost (locked door/blocked by a guard), and surrounded with blocked tiles to prevent him from running away.
Not much to say on this old debate that needs comments from both players and developers. I'd say that it NEEDS to be a feature for NPC factions, and not for players gangs. Players gangs can do town control, and that feature would be the first step to make a NPC faction useful.
In a more general way, I think reward should be longer to come in, and that you could only create maybe two outposts for your (NPC) faction. This way, we will have outposts that last longer, with a middle-term role. They need to last longer to attract newbies there (And it's easy, just put in a brahmins pen or a caravan boxes lifting job, maybe a workbench, and you'll get plenty of guys coming), and to have (If we keep the "Outpost Master" idea) more guards but with low HP, guards that wouldn't attack anyone from the concerned NPC faction, whatever they do. Attracting players there would be needed for the outpost creators, because they always need more players in their faction. By making a safe and interesting outpost (with huge PvP from times to times :D), they make their faction more attractive and can hire new players in it.
+1
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i like this ideea becoze of 1 thing: visible bases
i mean eery1 will buy a traper camp becoze is cheap and it does not need to be defended
if you can see some bases this will enhace the PvP
i do not understand if you buy a bog outpost other players can't see it,is a big F****** building,how can you go over it
to batle inside bases is the best idea eva
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i like this ideea becoze of 1 thing: visible bases
i mean eery1 will buy a traper camp becoze is cheap and it does not need to be defended
if you can see some bases this will enhace the PvP
i do not understand if you buy a bog outpost other players can't see it,is a big F****** building,how can you go over it
to batle inside bases is the best idea eva
Hehe, this is an old friggin post man, but yeah its a good one.
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what about waiting 3D? :) when itll be finished, you can start char etc as a mutant/ghoul, and if youre ghoul, youre able to join Unity, if youre human with no mutation, got chance to join Enclave, etc. or as it was in Fallout 1, you could go to that green goo to turn into super mutant (if non-successful, then just ghoul) that way youre gonna be accepted as their brother/sister.
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Well this is a really nice idea but I liked the original one better. Anyway I'm afraid that this could easily slip into stereotype such as current TC did. What I think we need is something, that will force players to meet together at same time and fight against each other in order to maintain their faction power or increase it. I mean this is the first idea that would create natural friends and natural enemies ingame and thats good and very needed thing. WoW has its Alliance+Horde and FOnline definitely needs some ingame lore conflict that will give players reason to choose sides, support friends and eliminate enemies. But if it will be as "simple" as this seems to me so far, then we will have just another way how to beat the shit out of each other.
I'm looking for something more than few random fights where winner takes all. I think this suggestion is a good place where to test something like long term battles where one loose or 6-7 hours without players keeping an eye on things would not be such a big deal. Simply if it comes as another "24/7 defense or be prepared to loose", then it would not bring that much. But if you guys come with some ideas how to make attack/defense truly unique such as long term siege or "infiltration-corruption-destruction" chain or something like that, then this could bring some fun. Also this could be perfect place how to introduce "battlegrounds" into the game as a part of attack/defense system of these faction outposts. But as I said if it comes as another TC only in different cloak then "work>gain".
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This suggestion would get FOnline to a real persistent world game.
Today, players take town. The next morning, another gang get it back. It's the same thing everyday, again, and again (and again and again and again (cf. The horribly slow murderer with the very inefficient weapon)).
It's like nonsense.
With this new system, everyone would have a real feel of who rules the land (wich gang, wich "order"). And with this, there will be more people that involve in this struggle for power, the land will seems more "alive"...
I totally approve, this is a "must be" for FOnline.
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I like this idea, except for the usual "Enclave, BoS" wants.
I'm fairly against those being used as factions to join, at least until there is something a little more epic (read: not deathmatch related) than we have at present. They are some of the superpowers, and should be treated as such. People wandering in to join seems wrong.
With that said, there is now a gap of "Then who?" Well there were several large places besides those, that could want to expand like this. Frisco Communists, Vault City, Hub (No one said that they had to be happy to be a part of NCR, the outposts a first step to proposed secession? :D ), why not even Gecko or (preferably) Necropolis/Gecko alliance outpost, and the already mentioned NCR.
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Even tho this is very old (first page old), most comments praise this...
so why not bring it back up to the top to be thought about again :P
come on Devs, we all want this to happen, so please if you got spare time after the 3D models can you make this 1 happen :P
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come on Devs, we all want this to happen, so please if you got spare time after the 3D models can you make this 1 happen :P
Dude 3d models are not happening without 3d modelers and afaik devs don't have anybody for that job. Just take a look at weapon models. Very promising at the beginning but now its dead as Radscorpion in "Radscorpion and NCR rangers" encounter.
But my point is to wait for what this months update (I hope it will come this month) brings us and then we will see.
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I honestly love this idea, for the same reason many other posters have put it : Visible Outposts. I think this would change the game dramatically in a very good and fun way.
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i wanted to say how nice idea this is and give some suggestions.
but then i realized its some years old topic and its not happening so i wont bother :(
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PvPers would cry about there "precious".....
:'(
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I think it's a good idea, having a fortress to protect. It's like a TB trap, but with additional tactical advantages.