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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Lordus on September 19, 2011, 08:54:05 pm
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Hello wastelanders,
at this moment, there is only one faction pvp minigame = TC. TC works in two ways: beacon that convenes hostile gangs to fight, background for roleplay in cities.
I think that most players knows disadvantages of this concept. Thing i a miss a most are pvps with small number of players.
So my idea is to add another faction pvp layer into the game. It could be named as "enforcement of protection money". (=google translate, so i hope it does sense). The name is not important, important is gameplay.
Why?
1) support small pvp fights
2) bring back players into pvp cities (for other reason that TC)
How?
In PvP cities, there should be located NPCs (10-15 in each norhern city, it should be possible to use current NPCs) with possibility of dialogue. Result of dialogue could be a small caps income to faction player, that talked with that NPC (i.e. VSB). Income shloud be one time and relatively small (max. dozen of caps). After that, only players from another gangs could talk with that NPCs. Because of reason of abusing this with 2 different friendly or proxy gangs, NPCs should have a cooldown (10 minutes?), not too short, but not too long.
The result i see is that players in time, when they dont have enough players for TC, would visit cities, checked NPCs for avaiability for this small quest. They would met other groups of (hostile?) players doing the same thing. Oposite to TC, i believe that lower caps reward would not attract massive PvP groups, but only small groups of players.
This system could exist together with TC, or it could be somehowe connected. What do you think?
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There are already NPCs giving out quests out there.
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Basic quests:
purpose = to help chars in their leveling
requirements = lvl, skill, item, not repeatable (mostly)
output = xp, caps, item.,,
My idea:
purpose = attract more players to pvp cities evenly throughout the day
requirements = faction membership
output = caps, more pvp fights among small groups (or solo players) in pvp cities
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So lovely idea. That would ease the 'ghost town' phenomena. And it would give people stuff to do who don't join some mammoth-faction.
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I don't get it. What's the point of caring about it when you already have it?
I mean you go, get caps, and buzz out. Fighting over it would be no different to camping mines and stuff.
In fact if you cannot get reward again before someone else takes encourage you to leave and return when it's taken, hopefully stopping others from leaving.
It's not really that bad, but since it discourage you from defense, it'll result in worldmap camping with preview/sneak intel.
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I re-read the suggestion and I still don't understand how going to a town to get a quest which gives 300xp and 200 caps would not make people meet in towns, while going to a town to talk to a NPC dude who throws 12 caps at you would mean small groups of players fighting each other in incredibly fun skirmishes over those 12 caps.
If the oh so great problem is that the already existing quests are not repeatable, you can still go to those towns to trade with NPC merchants, and that's a good reason to travel there in a small group and not to do TC, even better than talking to some punk who'll throw 12 caps at you.
You should try hanging around with a 3+ Charisma character from time to time, Lordus. Or at least chew some Mentats: starting the TC countdown is not the only reason to talk to NPCs.
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Just return interest rate which will be 0% on default. Mining in BH/Redding and donating ore/minerals to governement will increase your interest rate, rate should work every 10 minutes, if you die, log off or leave town it'll be set to 0% again. If there will be quests, they should be inside town and, again, each time you get more and more XP, if you die/log off/leave town multiplier will reset. In Klamath it can be gecko-hunting on south of town, in Den slave run, unfortunately it can't be done inside town, etc.
This way you can exp your character and become richier without leaving town, just living there.
This way you can PK innocent miners/hunters/slavers to make them suffer because they won't get more caps/exp after death.
This way factions could protect thier friends/members doing those things or protect innocent if they're good guys.
This way small evil factions can invade town and kill all innocent while good guys aren't looking.
I think "quests" like "Bring me X, kill for me X mobs, go to X then Y then Z and then take there item A and bring it to B" aren't good and boring, exp and wealth should be accumulated by common tasks that players are doing already and those tasks should be done inside town without forcing player leaving it, and upong leaving/dying there should be a penalty (reseting multiplier and/or interest rate) to force players stay there and value character's life, not only items.
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long post
That makes a lot more sense, I like the idea of getting xp and caps from Fallout world's "everyday activities".
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The point is, how to involve small faction players, or small groups of players into PvP in northern towns again. In few first eras, there was a custom, to get 2 or 3 friends and check all pvp cities, if there is not any enemy. This disapears. IF YOU DONT TEAM PVP, than it is hard to explain you, that this could work. But try it: very often there are few players that wants PvP and there is no opportunity. Ok, you can try Reno, or Hinkley. But northern cities are empty without any reason.
1) Number of NPCs providing the protection money quest:
The number of NPCs with dialogue i suggested could be high, i.e. 10-15 in each city or more. That would motivate players to check NPCs in all PvP cities. Players could go alone, or in small group. I expect, that they would not gather 10 players with best equip to check NPCs for few caps. But small gangs, or small group, that are not able to TC at that moment, can do something else than camping mines. I think that those groups would meet each other and it could result in PvP with small number of players.
Basic quests are not repetable, if they are, they need specific requirements (level, charisma, ...) and because of this only tiny fraction of players are making them. => still cities are empty.
2) Attract players to cities, but also hold them for some time.
In comparsion to classic quests, my idea expects that players searching for avaible NPCs would stay much longer. If i do classic quest (or trade), i try to get out as soon as possible to avoid PKs. My idea executions needs to check NPCs in city that should be in different places (not in one house), so you would stay there longer (because of movement, searching, checking,...). Also luring attention away from mines could improve gameplay, but this is not main reason.
3) This quest should be aimed for PvP chars. So no charisma requirement, no other, than faction membership requirement should be implemented. Again. This should support PvP among small groups or small gangs..
4) Everyday quests.. yes, but this needs a lot of scripting, inventing, writing ... My idea needs one script and many NPCs acroos northern cities. Again.. the purpose is to bring back classic small PvP fights.
P.S.: I have barter char (every era), even sneak barter char.. but there is not anyone except NCR :(
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The point is, how to involve small faction players, or small groups of players into PvP in northern towns again. In few first eras, there was a custom, to get 2 or 3 friends and check all pvp cities, if there is not any enemy. This disapears. IF YOU DONT TEAM PVP, than it is hard to explain you, that this could work. But try it: very often there are few players that wants PvP and there is no opportunity. Ok, you can try Reno, or Hinkley. But northern cities are empty without any reason.
There is still no real reason to send just a small squad to check those NPCs. A gang could unleash its whole army, even dual-log to send more powerbuilds to crush any competition they might run across. Remember that PvP apes just want to win, not to have fun.
1) Number of NPCs providing the protection money quest:
The number of NPCs with dialogue i suggested could be high, i.e. 10-15 in each city or more. That would motivate players to check NPCs in all PvP cities. Players could go alone, or in small group. I expect, that they would not gather 10 players with best equip to check NPCs for few caps. But small gangs, or small group, that are not able to TC at that moment, can do something else than camping mines. I think that those groups would meet each other and it could result in PvP with small number of players.
Gangs don't take risk in TC if there aren't enough of them online to counter the possible threat. If they don't take chances for TC, why would they take chances only for a small amount of caps which can be obtained by farming? Remember that PvP apes are efficient: they will prefer the less risky and more productive way of getting caps, instead of the less boring.
Basic quests are not repetable, if they are, they need specific requirements (level, charisma, ...) and because of this only tiny fraction of players are making them. => still cities are empty.
It's the player's choice to always and only use powerbuilds. The quests are there, if your character doesn't meet the requirements don't whine about it: this game allows you to alt and people are always alting for everything. Why not make an alt to enjoy the quests? Just because PvP apes hate playing with "noob" hybrid builds... ::)
2) Attract players to cities, but also hold them for some time.
In comparsion to classic quests, my idea expects that players searching for avaible NPCs would stay much longer. If i do classic quest (or trade), i try to get out as soon as possible to avoid PKs. My idea executions needs to check NPCs in city that should be in different places (not in one house), so you would stay there longer (because of movement, searching, checking,...). Also luring attention away from mines could improve gameplay, but this is not main reason.
It doesn't solve the problem: people will still enter city -> do what they gotta do as fast as possible -> run away. It will only take them a few more minutes (which would make it risky so they'd prefer farming, etc, as I already said). They will open dialogue with those NPCs and they won't even read the dialogue, they'll just learn the "instant win" combination of dialogue lines and run like hell. PvP apes think that wasting time talking to NPCs is for "Mad Max Wannabes"®.
3) This quest should be aimed for PvP chars. So no charisma requirement, no other, than faction membership requirement should be implemented. Again. This should support PvP among small groups or small gangs..
As already said, it's your problem if using non-powerbuild characters hurts your PvP ape ego, and it's your problem if you won't face another player in combat unless you have your perfect max level minimaxed fully drugged powerbuild.
4) Everyday quests.. yes, but this needs a lot of scripting, inventing, writing ... My idea needs one script and many NPCs acroos northern cities. Again.. the purpose is to bring back classic small PvP fights.
Quests are already there. Yes some are bugged, but don't complain about that if you refuse to do them just because they demand the use of non-powerbuilds chars. Devs have already worked and are working on already existing quests - but you won't give a fuck about that because your powerbuild can't do them. Instead, you want them to start doing "getting 12 caps" quests from scratch just as an excuse for you to have some PvP and not for the quest itself.
Imo the root of the problem can be seen in your post title: all you expect from the game is some "faction PvP minigame". Like I said in that other post, what you and most PvP apes ask for is already available in Tactics Multiplayer: no gathering, no crafting, no powerleveling, and you can even arrange how many members each team is allowed to bring, the gear they can use...
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Sooner or later some swarm with proxies will come to fight over 12 caps with another swarm. Flamewars, "your momma" jokes, e-penises again, as all of those can be seen in Tree Control threads. What's the difference?
How about remove TC once and for all? Now that's a revolution! :>
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Sooner or later some swarm with proxies will come to fight over 12 caps with another swarm. Flamewars, "your momma" jokes, e-penises again, as all of those can be seen in Tree Control threads. What's the difference?
How about remove TC once and for all? Now that's a revolution! :>
And instead of removing, making it a sort of perma-fight? with only little time between a capture and the other?
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How about remove TC once and for all? Now that's a revolution! :>
Yes, this seems to be the only way to make northern towns "populated".
As long as TC exists, it will be the main interest of poweful gangs, and their members won't enter towns unless it's for taking them, and then leave. Which makes me laugh everytime I read "there should be no guarded towns, in [insert "cooler" FOnline server name] players guard the town, we could have the same here" - yeah right.
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How about remove TC once and for all? Now that's a revolution! :>
I love the idea.
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I love the idea.
+1
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1) This suggestion is not about TC. So dont post off topics.
2) Ravenous, Wichura, Eternauta .. Do you , or did you played 2238 in any PvP faction or not? If not, this topic is not for you, because i doubt that you can contribute about implementing of another team PvP mechanism into the game.
3) If PvP apes means = level up my char, gather stuff to fight with 10 friends agaisnt 10 enemies (but also often mumble friends, or just in pvp community well known characters), then i am PVP ape and i am proud of it.
Answers:
"no real reason to send just a small squad"
This is not how it works in factions. There is not anybody who sends someone to check something. Players are doing their own thing, and if there is any source of fight possibility, then players gathers. But during the time, when there is not enough players, there could be a small fights. Of course, number of players fighting in those pvps will grow during the daytime (more online players= more fights). But this could be different to TC, where acition never starst before every gang gather as most playres as possible and team is waiting for everyone.
I think that my idea could bring different PvP experience, more entertaining for solo, dual players or small teams. This suggestion is not aimed for huge gangs with most players online!
"The quests are there, if your character doesn't meet the requirements don't whine about it"
I dont whine that my PvP char cant do quests (my trader char do them). I am talking about fact, that there are not quests for PvP chars, and in fact, there are emtpy cities, because of it.
"will players stay in city?" => more occasions to enter and be in city => more players in cities. repetable quests (repeatable in minutes) = more players in cities
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1) This suggestion is not about TC. So dont post off topics.
On the contrary, it's the pvp apes' desire of victory which has brought ghost towns: they only go to unguarded towns if they got a force reliable enough to take the town. Otherwise there is "no reason" to go there.
2) Ravenous, Wichura, Eternauta .. Do you , or did you played 2238 in any PvP faction or not? If not, this topic is not for you, because i doubt that you can contribute about implementing of another team PvP mechanism into the game.
"LOL UR NOT HARDCORE PVPERZ SO U SUX"? Are only major PvP gangs allowed to fight against other players? ::) Anyway I am personally in a major TC gang.
3) If PvP apes means = level up my char, gather stuff to fight with 10 friends agaisnt 10 enemies (but also often mumble friends, or just in pvp community well known characters), then i am PVP ape and i am proud of it.
Nothing new here.
Answers:
"no real reason to send just a small squad"
This is not how it works in factions. There is not anybody who sends someone to check something. Players are doing their own thing, and if there is any source of fight possibility, then players gathers. But during the time, when there is not enough players, there could be a small fights. Of course, number of players fighting in those pvps will grow during the daytime (more online players= more fights). But this could be different to TC, where acition never starst before every gang gather as most playres as possible and team is waiting for everyone.
-Hey according to my Pip-Boy, your faction is controlling BH.
-Yep.
-We don't have enough members online to take the town from you... But what about we send a small group, not for TC mind you, but for those 12 caps given by NPCs.
-Sounds awesome, there are 20 guys from my faction online atm, but we will only send a small team.
The above situation will never be. If a faction has not enough people online to take a town, they will never send people to a TC location just to get those caps, which means the same risk but for a lot smaller reward than the TC box.
I think that my idea could bring different PvP experience, more entertaining for solo, dual players or small teams. This suggestion is not aimed for huge gangs with most players online!
The quests that already exist can also be enjoyed by solo players. But they will most probably be killed on sight by factions. The same would happen with these "quests".
"The quests are there, if your character doesn't meet the requirements don't whine about it"
I dont whine that my PvP char cant do quests (my trader char do them). I am talking about fact, that there are not quests for PvP chars, and in fact, there are emtpy cities, because of it.
Cities are not empty because of that. They are empty because gang members only go there to take them, and solo players enter the town and leave fast so they don't get shot by factions. Without TC, you'd see a lot more people in those towns, because northern cities wouldn't be potential war zones.
"will players stay in city?" => more occasions to enter and be in city => more players in cities. repetable quests (repeatable in minutes) = more players in cities
Hell yeah, players running, power-talking to NPCs, then running the fuck out of town before the enemy comes to shoot at them. PVP RENEWED! CITIES POPULATED!
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Cities are not empty because of that. They are empty because gang members only go there to take them, and solo players enter the town and leave fast so they don't get shot by factions. Without TC, you'd see a lot more people in those towns, because northern cities wouldn't be potential war zones.
If TC i removed, what do you think gonna happen to TC factions? Are they gonna magically disappear, leaving town, making them suddenly safe? Without TC, the situation wouldn't change, simply all those evil PvP ape faction would have to search in each town to find something to kill instead of waiting that a counter pop up to alert them... Which would probably cause much more small gang and loners death, as ATM TC faction won't bother to check a town if there is no counter running (with exceptions of Reno because it is known much action is going on there).
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If TC i removed, what do you think gonna happen to TC factions? Are they gonna magically disappear, leaving town, making them suddenly safe? Without TC, the situation wouldn't change, simply all those evil PvP ape faction would have to search in each town to find something to kill instead of waiting that a counter pop up to alert them... Which would probably cause much more small gang and loners death, as ATM TC faction won't bother to check a town if there is no counter running (with exceptions of Reno because it is known much action is going on there).
If TC was removed, I believe that the "in server X, players guard towns" things would be possible. Without TC we wouldn't have ridiculous elements like militia, or economical reasons to take a town from another gang (TC box). Without TC, I think PvP wouldn't be about great wars over a territory, instead of that even members of big factions would probably act in small groups because they would not have big objectives that encouraged them to gather in "swarms".
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My idea:
purpose = attract more players to pvp cities evenly throughout the day
There is no such thing as "pvp cities" in FOnline: 2238.
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There is no such thing as "pvp cities" in FOnline: 2238.
But big gangs have turned controllabe towns into "pvp cities", or more exactly, "TC cities", which are there to be taken, and they are usually not visited by people with a different objective, or those other objectives are "less important" than TC, or are related to activities carried out only so players act better in TC later.
As a result, if gang X is controlling Klamath and members of gang Y enter Klamath, those from gang X will see that as an invasion and attack (if they have at least a relatively high number of people online).
That is imho why northern towns are empty.
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One is free to call it as he wants to; and they might be a place that looks more like a battlefield than a town. However, it was never intended that they become "PvP cities" and I doubt you'll see them named like that in, for example, a changelog.
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2) Ravenous, Wichura, Eternauta .. Do you , or did you played 2238 in any PvP faction or not? If not, this topic is not for you, because i doubt that you can contribute about implementing of another team PvP mechanism into the game.
I shot other players with mah ape, still got screenshots somewhere. That char even uses drugs (Nuka Cola & Cigarettes lethal combo, zomfg!!111), can I be considered PvP playah now?
Anyway - TC is causing more bad than good things: it makes cities deserted except for proxy-swarms fights, it's a reason for assholios to ruin other people's fun (remember whine-wave when BH was controlled by some friendly Russians, but then some people - wasn't that VSB? - decided to kill'em all, because these Russians were getting stuff from TC box), it makes messy flame-threads on forum, it kills economy sooner than anyone can think of it (itanz and caps spawned outta nowhere in magic box, no matter how many people came into town, how many trades were successful etc.). Good thing - there are other arenas than Hinkley and Reno.
So your suggestion here is like curing cancer with bandages and lipstick.
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One is free to call it as he wants to; and they might be a place that looks more like a battlefield than a town. However, it was never intended that they become "PvP cities" and I doubt you'll see them named like that in, for example, a changelog.
That's my point - it's not the devs' fault that cities are empty, it's because of how players behave about TC.
Anyway - TC is causing more bad than good things: it makes cities deserted except for proxy-swarms fights, it's a reason for assholios to ruin other people's fun (remember whine-wave when BH was controlled by some friendly Russians, but then some people - wasn't that VSB? - decided to kill'em all, because these Russians were getting stuff from TC box), it makes messy flame-threads on forum, it kills economy sooner than anyone can think of it (itanz and caps spawned outta nowhere in magic box, no matter how many people came into town, how many trades were successful etc.). Good thing - there are other arenas than Hinkley and Reno.
I agree completely.
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Removing TC:
If you remove TC, you remove 2 things. 1) Alarm, that notify people that there is any pvp action. So in general, it would ruin PvP experience for players that have not enought time to search cities for enemies.
Without alarm the time required to any PvP will be very unpredictable and IMO it would discourage players from organized PvP and it would let to quit or abusing players in mines,...
2) The reason how to stay in norhern cites, so there would not be any reason to stay there (Look at Necropolis,unguarded (i think), no TC and voila! still ghost city.
So Eternauta, if gang X would lose its option to control Klamath (removing TC), the gang would not stay there (why? target to enemy?) and gang Y would not have reason to enter Klamath.. :(
PvP cities means, you have opportunity to interact with players in many ways, even killing. No PvP cities (oficialy named as guarded cities) means, that even you are robbed, bombed or abused by well known player, you cant do nothing, because you will be killed by city guards.
My suggestion:
Hmm, not enough players to retake any city (alarm function of TC), so i and 2 of my friends would check npcs for caps in those cities, and we would hope we can meet any players. Maybe they would shot us, maybe they can talk with us first, lets see. No need to take tier max weapons and armors, our bases is full of tier shit stuff, lets use it. If we will kill enemy that has tier max stuff, good for us. If we loose it, never mind.
Wichura: Again, this topic is not about TC. If i can name TC as "developers support for massive faction vs. faction PvP killing roleplay on bad guys and good guys", my could be named as "developers support for not massive, group players vs. group players, interaction that could lead to combat, but sometimes not".
Russians? dont remember. We have relatively good contancts with russian players, because on Requiem, VSB is party of some "anti pk alliance" and they are helping us with knowhow, etc.
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Silly people. If they remove TC and give alternative (like those faction battles or whatever is going on), there will soon be outcry to remove that as well. Like "I have my RP ruined in Killzone #4, because of those stupid PvP apes doing PvP there!!".
With the number of towns out there, the existence of zones without police or guards and no TC, there is really no reason to complain about it.
Here you got your Reno, it's a mess. Now if Broken Hills, Redding, Den and Gecko became the same type of towns for some reason, your Reno mess would dissolve.
I guess it will make some people happy, like buying arms in Reno, because there is not really much action going on, but it'd hurt somewhat the multiplayer part of the game.
If I count it right, there are about 4 towns with regular guards or police, 3 towns with no interest, and 5 TC towns.
This really gives something like max 10 players per town at the moment, considering they have different weights of interest, I could make rough estimate of like 2-4 players per current TC towns.
Even if playerbase was doubled it would still be at the brink of usefulness.
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Removing TC:
If you remove TC, you remove 2 things. 1) Alarm, that notify people that there is any pvp action. So in general, it would ruin PvP experience for players that have not enought time to search cities for enemies.
Without alarm the time required to any PvP will be very unpredictable and IMO it would discourage players from organized PvP and it would let to quit or abusing players in mines,...
By alarm you mean the TC countdown, right? If that's so then I think you are wrong about it. People who want to take a town kill militia first, and I don't know if all factions do this, but in C88 or our alliances it has happened that we realize they are killing our militia (in other words: we know they are invading even before the countdown is triggered).
Also, the countdown is one of the things I hate the most: you see the countdown, everyone runs to Mumble, prepares everything, etc... Would be unpredictable you say? of course it'd be unpredictable, but that's what would make it exciting.
You say players would get discouraged from organized PvP and prefer to troll in mines. Well that makes me thinks they are cowards and that this is just another reason to laugh when I read "there should be no guarded towns, players should guard them".
2) The reason how to stay in norhern cites, so there would not be any reason to stay there (Look at Necropolis,unguarded (i think), no TC and voila! still ghost city.
Imho, Necropolis is deserted because of the following reasons:
-in the context of a server where TC is implemented, Necropolis can't be taken
-it's "too far"
-it doesn't have many quests
-it doesn't have many merchants
However, Necropolis is an awesome place for PvP, with its different areas connected by sewers for example... but anyway Necropolis is not what this topic is about.
So Eternauta, if gang X would lose its option to control Klamath (removing TC), the gang would not stay there (why? target to enemy?) and gang Y would not have reason to enter Klamath.. :(
Merchants, quests, or just the desire to hang around. Also, a more real feel of danger: right now with TC, you can more or less predict how safe a town is by checking Pip-Boy and depending on the time it is irl.
PvP cities means, you have opportunity to interact with players in many ways, even killing. No PvP cities (oficialy named as guarded cities) means, that even you are robbed, bombed or abused by well known player, you cant do nothing, because you will be killed by city guards.
Yet, players just want to take them unguarded towns. They are usually not interested in staying and making them attractive or turning them into a place where PvP interaction different from combat can be found.
My suggestion:
Hmm, not enough players to retake any city (alarm function of TC), so i and 2 of my friends would check npcs for caps in those cities, and we would hope we can meet any players. Maybe they would shot us, maybe they can talk with us first, lets see. No need to take tier max weapons and armors, our bases is full of tier shit stuff, lets use it. If we will kill enemy that has tier max stuff, good for us. If we loose it, never mind.
I am still convinced that gang members would not get into "enemy territory" if they are not 100% sure they will win. Like I said, they don't like risk.
Russians? dont remember. We have relatively good contancts with russian players, because on Requiem, VSB is party of some "anti pk alliance" and they are helping us with knowhow, etc.
I bet he means the Broken Hills project. Chosen Soldiers and/or the Rogues (I was never sure) were trying to keep the town relatively safe, and BH actually became an attractive place for a lot of players. It was something really positive but APK factions like TTTLA and VSB kept attacking and eventually ruined it. C88 was still small and it was just a short time after I joined this game. I never liked that BH was attacked and innocents killed, but that's just my personal view of it. The point is that no matter if your gang is PK or APK or whatever, TC will harm the game.
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The suggestion is about new minigame, other than TC. If you dont like my idea, you can post yours. I dont think that my ideas are the best and i am opened to discussion. From your rejection of TC, i guess that you are against any other new faction minigames.
But you forgot one thing. Other servers allows something for faction players (retaking the Cathedral on Requiem, TC,..). Its like stimul to players behave. Without it, players will be bored, maybe they will quit. I know that most of people are waiting on wipe, but this current number of active players is the truth number, not post wipe one. After wipe numbers will be only for few weeks, maybe months, not half of a year, nor the year and more!
So i think that by eliminating any support from devs to roleplayers (TC is in fact roleplay too, is not it?) is bad way. Nobody wants to do anything in "unguarded no TC city" like Necropolis (even it is very good because of sewers,..), so i dont expect, that if you erase any TEAM game stimul (TC), they would start to "play".
Town control is not chains that bind players, but actualy the only reason why most players currently playing remains. I am trying to suggest another reason, not eliminate the current one.
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Nobody wants to do anything in "unguarded no TC city" like Necropolis (even it is very good because of sewers,..), so i dont expect, that if you erase any TEAM game stimul (TC), they would start to "play".
There was Modoc Militia, but then TC came and city actually died. There were Redding/BH controlled by some factions, but lust for TC-box itanz was stronger. You could log out from one character, then log in to another in no time, but guess what - TC apes were abusing it over and over, by coming over and over with alts named Pwnz0r1, Pwnz0r2, Pwnz0r3.
Reno has also no TC feature, and still people come there. But you can buy cars, empty hypos, do some quests, buy fancy stuff. In Necropolis you can only stand around, writing "/e roleplayin teh ghul". See the difference, sir?
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Modoc Militia is (IMO) consequence of the former server settings in previous eras, together with massive popularity of 2238 in that time.
Settings as closest respawn point, so even you are killed, you can very fastly get back into "battlefield", together with many players exploring well known world from his favourite fallout game. But the second condition is not and will not be any more (i think). We cant expect new wave of Fonline untouched (also F1,2 fans) players.
I remember "comeback" of modoc militia, but it did not worked (IMO because the resason i wrote up). Players who stays knows how to gather best stuff, level up best chars, so there is not many reasons to repeat MM style of gameplay. And of course, we have Hinkley.
So i am pesimistic to other roleplays formed from scratch, without any GM or dev support.
Reno is different because of architecture of the location. Many small maps connected into one city. Different gameplay (vs. norhtern cities). But okay, if Reno can exists without any TC (or similar minigame), norhern cities cannot. Proof? Tell me, how many players you visited in Klamath today?
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Tell me, how many players you visited in Klamath today?
I can barely meet anyone up north, mostly because these places became PvP arenas. Even if I have an idea to wander around with some newbie, helping him to make some quests, we both sooner or later gonna be smashed by bored preview-campers or bunch of apes, trying to "control" city X.
Redding is an example of well player-driven town - there is a mine, few quests, shops, and even if it's temporary dangerous due to random PK, people warn each other or gather together to defend. This is how in my not humble opinion should controlling town look like. TC box? Capture zone? What?
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All of you make me laugh. You can't go to town because "it's PvP arena for evil PvP apes"! Which is totally false. Try to go at Klamath whenever you want without taking town while no counter is running. No matter who is controlling the town, you won't see anyone. No big PvP faction will ever go to Klamath without counter up/big team spotted. Same for Modoc, Gecko.... And pretty much all TC towns. TC factions were never cause of this, because they never come without a good reason.
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No big PvP faction will ever go to Klamath without counter up/big team spotted. Same for Modoc, Gecko.... And pretty much all TC towns. TC factions were never cause of this, because they never come without a good reason.
People not bond with TC factions used to think northern towns are dangerous, because some "PvP apez shoot n00bz there omg". Klamath, Modoc, even Den are good places for shopping (unless there's bored gang member with militia's backup), been there many times, so I know these cities are most of the time empty. But I'm not the only one playing this.
What's wrong with removing TC anyway? How many decent factions can participate it? 5? 10?
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Removing TC would make the player counter only go lower, as there are plenty of people that don't do much else except TC.
In 1st and 2nd session TC was rather symbolic, sometimes a decoy for a fight. Back then, you had almost unlimited scouting abilities, as:
- without relog timer, you could relog through all of your 1 lvl bluesuit scouts placed in each northern town and see whether a group of players is standing there,
- with "broken" tracking feature, you knew who is standing on worldmap upon leaving the town (the list of those standing over the town appeared), so you knew that something is going on,
- instead of TC timer, town was taken immediately after bringing a group to the town's mayor and speaking to him
So basically, all it took to see whether there is some action or not, was launching the pipboy and optionally relogging through your scouts which took less than one minute. As there were plenty of players in the game, there were lots of fights in the evenings. That's how we did to get some action and it worked well; for several weeks there were battles in BH, Redding, Klamath, Den and especially in Modoc, without TC rewards (it was not worth of it) or timer or capture zone. Actually, all that you were getting from taking the town was a secured locker (I remember Orphans using it in Den for trading), fancy pipboy message and some share from players trading (mostly shit). Many newbies were going to northern towns, as there were lots of people joining the game; they would come back later if they got killed, sometimes to fight back.
Town control wouldn't do any good to the game if it was removed completely, but surely it could use many improvements.
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I dont know if your brains are overloaded or something.....
Did you ever imagined a UNGUARDED town WITHOUT TC? ::) ::)
I mean a city free of the chains of scum laws, and free of pseudometacampers (i always wanted to said that), with no reason for big gangs to go there since they had anyway TC.
Its so easy to test it, just make unguarded a southern city (if it is northern nobody will go anyway) and watch.
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Did you ever imagined a UNGUARDED town WITHOUT TC? ::) ::)
Necropolis: quiet place, you can go there and probably nobody will annoy you. Its negative side is the lack of stuff to attrack players, except for the technical characteristics of its maps.
New Reno: turned into a non-TC arena by players, its maps let you use slightly different tactics (preview, moving from an area to another, etc.)
Actually, I think that Necropolis and Reno are enough if you are looking for what Lordus says he wants: a faction PvP minigame, different from TC. No need to implement anything new, just go to Reno or arrange a fair fight in Necropolis.
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Guess i didnt explain myself.
Why would you like to go to Necropolis? there are two interesting things there:
-Ghouls genocide, the first thing i learned to do with other guys, but thats PvE with no rewards or loses, like Hinkley.
-Buy robes, in a guarded place wich is accesible without go to the main area.
if there is not a reason to go to Necropolis, then nobody will go there, and we dont want to implement stuff in another city, we have many cityes.
Why would you like to go to New Reno? Travel across the whole map from the n00blands and the crafting, trading sites to the northern cityes just for search fights in New Reno. the problem with that city is that is far from everything and too close to TC Towns. wich are avoided by non-TC players.
If we can just teleport Reno to a place between Junktown and NCR, then problem solved, but thats is unaceptable. So i suggest to convert one of the Southern cityes in unguarded town because its close to everything that low players want: resources, workbench, idleing places, cave bases. Many potential pvps live in south.
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Uh, what would be the difference between this new unguarded town and necropolis? None... So would there be action there? No...
It's very easy: want PvP? Go to Reno, or start a TC.
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You answer yourself...
You want pvp? go to New New Reno. conveniently ubicated near Scum Town (AKA NCR) and Junktown. Wich means more guys there.
What will you obtain? nothing but FUN, and maybe stuff from fallen foes.
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You answer yourself...
You want pvp? go to New New Reno. conveniently ubicated near Scum Town (AKA NCR) and Junktown. Wich means more guys there.
What will you obtain? nothing but FUN, and maybe stuff from fallen foes.
So, your point is: move Reno to south, to allow noob from NCR to go there easily, and make life of north PvPer harder?
This is retarded.
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Makes no sense. Noobs are
a) not interested in killing
b) not able to kill anyone
c) afraid to loose precioussss itanz like shovel and 30 caps
Besides there is Necropolis already, empty, unguarded, down south. There is Hinkley, south, they gief itanz free!!111
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So after of infathomable and countless topics we reach to the same conclussion (and i said that first ;D):
PvP is ruined because players are cowards.