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[Lordus]

1) This suggestion is not about TC. So dont post off topics.
2) Ravenous, Wichura, Eternauta .. Do you , or did you played 2238 in any PvP faction or not? If not, this topic is not for you, because i doubt that you can contribute about implementing of another team PvP mechanism into the game.
3) If PvP apes means = level up my char, gather stuff to fight with 10 friends agaisnt 10 enemies (but also often mumble friends, or just in pvp community well known characters), then i am PVP ape and i am proud of it.


 Answers:
 "no real reason to send just a small squad"

 This is not how it works in factions. There is not anybody who sends someone to check something. Players are doing their own thing, and if there is any source of fight possibility, then players gathers. But during the time, when there is not enough players, there could be a small fights. Of course, number of players fighting in those pvps will grow during the daytime (more online players= more fights). But this could be different to TC, where acition never starst before every gang gather as most playres as possible and team is waiting for everyone.

 I think that my idea could bring different PvP experience, more entertaining for solo, dual players or small teams. This suggestion is not aimed for huge gangs with most players online!

 "The quests are there, if your character doesn't meet the requirements don't whine about it"

 I dont whine that my PvP char cant do quests (my trader char do them). I am talking about fact, that there are not quests for PvP chars, and in fact, there are emtpy cities, because of it.

"will players stay in city?" => more occasions to enter and be in city => more players in cities.  repetable quests (repeatable in minutes) = more players in cities

 

[Eternauta]

1) This suggestion is not about TC. So dont post off topics.

On the contrary, it's the pvp apes' desire of victory which has brought ghost towns: they only go to unguarded towns if they got a force reliable enough to take the town. Otherwise there is "no reason" to go there.

2) Ravenous, Wichura, Eternauta .. Do you , or did you played 2238 in any PvP faction or not? If not, this topic is not for you, because i doubt that you can contribute about implementing of another team PvP mechanism into the game.

"LOL UR NOT HARDCORE PVPERZ SO U SUX"? Are only major PvP gangs allowed to fight against other players?  Anyway I am personally in a major TC gang.

3) If PvP apes means = level up my char, gather stuff to fight with 10 friends agaisnt 10 enemies (but also often mumble friends, or just in pvp community well known characters), then i am PVP ape and i am proud of it.

Nothing new here.

Answers:
 "no real reason to send just a small squad"

 This is not how it works in factions. There is not anybody who sends someone to check something. Players are doing their own thing, and if there is any source of fight possibility, then players gathers. But during the time, when there is not enough players, there could be a small fights. Of course, number of players fighting in those pvps will grow during the daytime (more online players= more fights). But this could be different to TC, where acition never starst before every gang gather as most playres as possible and team is waiting for everyone.

-Hey according to my Pip-Boy, your faction is controlling BH.
-Yep.
-We don't have enough members online to take the town from you... But what about we send a small group, not for TC mind you, but for those 12 caps given by NPCs.
-Sounds awesome, there are 20 guys from my faction online atm, but we will only send a small team.

The above situation will never be. If a faction has not enough people online to take a town, they will never send people to a TC location just to get those caps, which means the same risk but for a lot smaller reward than the TC box.

I think that my idea could bring different PvP experience, more entertaining for solo, dual players or small teams. This suggestion is not aimed for huge gangs with most players online!

The quests that already exist can also be enjoyed by solo players. But they will most probably be killed on sight by factions. The same would happen with these "quests".

"The quests are there, if your character doesn't meet the requirements don't whine about it"

 I dont whine that my PvP char cant do quests (my trader char do them). I am talking about fact, that there are not quests for PvP chars, and in fact, there are emtpy cities, because of it.

Cities are not empty because of that. They are empty because gang members only go there to take them, and solo players enter the town and leave fast so they don't get shot by factions. Without TC, you'd see a lot more people in those towns, because northern cities wouldn't be potential war zones.

"will players stay in city?" => more occasions to enter and be in city => more players in cities.  repetable quests (repeatable in minutes) = more players in cities

Hell yeah, players running, power-talking to NPCs, then running the fuck out of town before the enemy comes to shoot at them. PVP RENEWED! CITIES POPULATED!

[Crazy]

Cities are not empty because of that. They are empty because gang members only go there to take them, and solo players enter the town and leave fast so they don't get shot by factions. Without TC, you'd see a lot more people in those towns, because northern cities wouldn't be potential war zones.

If TC i removed, what do you think gonna happen to TC factions? Are they gonna magically disappear, leaving town, making them suddenly safe? Without TC, the situation wouldn't change, simply all those evil PvP ape faction would have to search in each town to find something to kill instead of waiting that a counter pop up to alert them... Which would probably cause much more small gang and loners death, as ATM TC faction won't bother to check a town if there is no counter running (with exceptions of Reno because it is known much action is going on there).

[Eternauta]

If TC i removed, what do you think gonna happen to TC factions? Are they gonna magically disappear, leaving town, making them suddenly safe? Without TC, the situation wouldn't change, simply all those evil PvP ape faction would have to search in each town to find something to kill instead of waiting that a counter pop up to alert them... Which would probably cause much more small gang and loners death, as ATM TC faction won't bother to check a town if there is no counter running (with exceptions of Reno because it is known much action is going on there).

If TC was removed, I believe that the "in server X, players guard towns" things would be possible. Without TC we wouldn't have ridiculous elements like militia, or economical reasons to take a town from another gang (TC box). Without TC, I think PvP wouldn't be about great wars over a territory, instead of that even members of big factions would probably act in small groups because they would not have big objectives that encouraged them to gather in "swarms".

[Izual]

My idea:
 purpose = attract more players to pvp cities evenly throughout the day

There is no such thing as "pvp cities" in FOnline: 2238.

[Eternauta]

There is no such thing as "pvp cities" in FOnline: 2238.

But big gangs have turned controllabe towns into "pvp cities", or more exactly, "TC cities", which are there to be taken, and they are usually not visited by people with a different objective, or those other objectives are "less important" than TC, or are related to activities carried out only so players act better in TC later.

As a result, if gang X is controlling Klamath and members of gang Y enter Klamath, those from gang X will see that as an invasion and attack (if they have at least a relatively high number of people online).

That is imho why northern towns are empty.

[Izual]

One is free to call it as he wants to; and they might be a place that looks more like a battlefield than a town. However, it was never intended that they become "PvP cities" and I doubt you'll see them named like that in, for example, a changelog.

[Wichura]

2) Ravenous, Wichura, Eternauta .. Do you , or did you played 2238 in any PvP faction or not? If not, this topic is not for you, because i doubt that you can contribute about implementing of another team PvP mechanism into the game.

I shot other players with mah ape, still got screenshots somewhere. That char even uses drugs (Nuka Cola & Cigarettes lethal combo, zomfg!!111), can I be considered PvP playah now?

Anyway - TC is causing more bad than good things: it makes cities deserted except for proxy-swarms fights, it's a reason for assholios to ruin other people's fun (remember whine-wave when BH was controlled by some friendly Russians, but then some people - wasn't that VSB? - decided to kill'em all, because these Russians were getting stuff from TC box), it makes messy flame-threads on forum, it kills economy sooner than anyone can think of it (itanz and caps spawned outta nowhere in magic box, no matter how many people came into town, how many trades were successful etc.). Good thing - there are other arenas than Hinkley and Reno.

So your suggestion here is like curing cancer with bandages and lipstick.

[Eternauta]

One is free to call it as he wants to; and they might be a place that looks more like a battlefield than a town. However, it was never intended that they become "PvP cities" and I doubt you'll see them named like that in, for example, a changelog.

That's my point - it's not the devs' fault that cities are empty, it's because of how players behave about TC.

Anyway - TC is causing more bad than good things: it makes cities deserted except for proxy-swarms fights, it's a reason for assholios to ruin other people's fun (remember whine-wave when BH was controlled by some friendly Russians, but then some people - wasn't that VSB? - decided to kill'em all, because these Russians were getting stuff from TC box), it makes messy flame-threads on forum, it kills economy sooner than anyone can think of it (itanz and caps spawned outta nowhere in magic box, no matter how many people came into town, how many trades were successful etc.). Good thing - there are other arenas than Hinkley and Reno.

I agree completely.

[Lordus]

Removing TC:

 If you remove TC, you remove 2 things. 1) Alarm, that notify people that there is any pvp action. So in general, it would ruin PvP experience for players that have not enought time to search cities for enemies.

 Without alarm the time required to any PvP will be very unpredictable and IMO it would discourage players from organized PvP and it would let to quit or abusing players in mines,...

 2) The reason how to stay in norhern cites, so there would not be any reason to stay there (Look at Necropolis,unguarded (i think), no TC and voila! still ghost city.

So Eternauta, if gang X would lose its option to control Klamath (removing TC), the gang would not stay there (why? target to enemy?) and gang Y would not have reason to enter Klamath..


 PvP cities means, you have opportunity to interact with players in many ways, even killing. No PvP cities (oficialy named as guarded cities) means, that even you are robbed, bombed or abused by well known player, you cant do nothing, because you will be killed by city guards.


 My suggestion:

 Hmm, not enough players to retake any city (alarm function of TC), so i and 2 of my friends would check npcs for caps in those cities, and we would hope we can meet any players. Maybe they would shot us, maybe they can talk with us first, lets see. No need to take tier max weapons and armors, our bases is full of tier shit stuff, lets use it. If we will kill enemy that has tier max stuff, good for us. If we loose it, never mind.
 
 Wichura: Again, this topic is not about TC. If i can name TC as "developers support for massive faction vs. faction PvP killing roleplay on bad guys and good guys", my could be named as "developers support for not massive, group players vs. group players, interaction that could lead to combat, but sometimes not".

 Russians? dont remember. We have relatively good contancts with russian players, because on Requiem, VSB is party of some "anti pk alliance" and they are helping us with knowhow, etc.

[Johnnybravo]

Silly people. If they remove TC and give alternative (like those faction battles or whatever is going on), there will soon be outcry to remove that as well. Like "I have my RP ruined in Killzone #4, because of those stupid PvP apes doing PvP there!!".

With the number of towns out there, the existence of zones without police or guards and no TC, there is really no reason to complain about it.

Here you got your Reno, it's a mess. Now if Broken Hills, Redding, Den and Gecko became the same type of towns for some reason, your Reno mess would dissolve.

I guess it will make some people happy, like buying arms in Reno, because there is not really much action going on, but it'd hurt somewhat the multiplayer part of the game.

If I count it right, there are about 4 towns with regular guards or police, 3 towns with no interest, and 5 TC towns.
This really gives something like max 10 players per town at the moment, considering they have different weights of interest, I could make rough estimate of like 2-4 players per current TC towns.

Even if playerbase was doubled it would still be at the brink of usefulness.

[Eternauta]

Removing TC:

 If you remove TC, you remove 2 things. 1) Alarm, that notify people that there is any pvp action. So in general, it would ruin PvP experience for players that have not enought time to search cities for enemies.

 Without alarm the time required to any PvP will be very unpredictable and IMO it would discourage players from organized PvP and it would let to quit or abusing players in mines,...

By alarm you mean the TC countdown, right? If that's so then I think you are wrong about it. People who want to take a town kill militia first, and I don't know if all factions do this, but in C88 or our alliances it has happened that we realize they are killing our militia (in other words: we know they are invading even before the countdown is triggered).

Also, the countdown is one of the things I hate the most: you see the countdown, everyone runs to Mumble, prepares everything, etc... Would be unpredictable you say? of course it'd be unpredictable, but that's what would make it exciting.

You say players would get discouraged from organized PvP and prefer to troll in mines. Well that makes me thinks they are cowards and that this is just another reason to laugh when I read "there should be no guarded towns, players should guard them".

2) The reason how to stay in norhern cites, so there would not be any reason to stay there (Look at Necropolis,unguarded (i think), no TC and voila! still ghost city.

Imho, Necropolis is deserted because of the following reasons:
-in the context of a server where TC is implemented, Necropolis can't be taken
-it's "too far"
-it doesn't have many quests
-it doesn't have many merchants

However, Necropolis is an awesome place for PvP, with its different areas connected by sewers for example... but anyway Necropolis is not what this topic is about.

So Eternauta, if gang X would lose its option to control Klamath (removing TC), the gang would not stay there (why? target to enemy?) and gang Y would not have reason to enter Klamath..

Merchants, quests, or just the desire to hang around. Also, a more real feel of danger: right now with TC, you can more or less predict how safe a town is by checking Pip-Boy and depending on the time it is irl.

PvP cities means, you have opportunity to interact with players in many ways, even killing. No PvP cities (oficialy named as guarded cities) means, that even you are robbed, bombed or abused by well known player, you cant do nothing, because you will be killed by city guards.

Yet, players just want to take them unguarded towns. They are usually not interested in staying and making them attractive or turning them into a place where PvP interaction different from combat can be found.

My suggestion:

 Hmm, not enough players to retake any city (alarm function of TC), so i and 2 of my friends would check npcs for caps in those cities, and we would hope we can meet any players. Maybe they would shot us, maybe they can talk with us first, lets see. No need to take tier max weapons and armors, our bases is full of tier shit stuff, lets use it. If we will kill enemy that has tier max stuff, good for us. If we loose it, never mind.

I am still convinced that gang members would not get into "enemy territory" if they are not 100% sure they will win. Like I said, they don't like risk.

Russians? dont remember. We have relatively good contancts with russian players, because on Requiem, VSB is party of some "anti pk alliance" and they are helping us with knowhow, etc.

I bet he means the Broken Hills project. Chosen Soldiers and/or the Rogues (I was never sure) were trying to keep the town relatively safe, and BH actually became an attractive place for a lot of players. It was something really positive but APK factions like TTTLA and VSB kept attacking and eventually ruined it. C88 was still small and it was just a short time after I joined this game. I never liked that BH was attacked and innocents killed, but that's just my personal view of it. The point is that no matter if your gang is PK or APK or whatever, TC will harm the game.

[Lordus]

 The suggestion is about new minigame, other than TC. If you dont like my idea, you can post yours. I dont think that my ideas are the best and i am opened to discussion. From your rejection of TC, i guess that you are against any other new faction minigames.

 But you forgot one thing. Other servers allows something for faction players (retaking the Cathedral on Requiem, TC,..). Its like stimul to players behave. Without it, players will be bored, maybe they will quit. I know that most of people are waiting on wipe, but this current number of active players is the truth number, not post wipe one. After wipe numbers will be only for few weeks, maybe months, not half of a year, nor the year and more!

 So i think that by eliminating any support from devs to roleplayers (TC is in fact roleplay too, is not it?) is bad way. Nobody wants to do anything in "unguarded no TC city" like Necropolis (even it is very good because of sewers,..), so i dont expect, that if you erase any TEAM game stimul (TC), they would start to "play".

 Town control is not chains that bind players, but actualy the only reason why most players currently playing remains. I am trying to suggest another reason, not eliminate the current one.

 

[Wichura]

Nobody wants to do anything in "unguarded no TC city" like Necropolis (even it is very good because of sewers,..), so i dont expect, that if you erase any TEAM game stimul (TC), they would start to "play".

There was Modoc Militia, but then TC came and city actually died. There were Redding/BH controlled by some factions, but lust for TC-box itanz was stronger. You could log out from one character, then log in to another in no time, but guess what - TC apes were abusing it over and over, by coming over and over with alts named Pwnz0r1, Pwnz0r2, Pwnz0r3.

Reno has also no TC feature, and still people come there. But you can buy cars, empty hypos, do some quests, buy fancy stuff. In Necropolis you can only stand around, writing "/e roleplayin teh ghul". See the difference, sir?

[Lordus]

Modoc Militia is (IMO) consequence of the former server settings in previous eras, together with massive popularity of 2238 in that time.

 Settings as closest respawn point, so even you are killed, you can very fastly get back into "battlefield", together with many players exploring well known world from his favourite fallout game.  But the second condition is not and will not be any more (i think). We cant expect new wave of Fonline untouched (also F1,2 fans) players.

 I remember "comeback" of modoc militia, but it did not worked (IMO because the resason i wrote up). Players who stays knows how to gather best stuff, level up best chars, so there is not many reasons to repeat MM style of gameplay. And of course, we have Hinkley.

 So i am pesimistic to other roleplays formed from scratch, without any GM or dev support.

 Reno is different because of architecture of the location. Many small maps connected into one city. Different gameplay (vs. norhtern cities). But okay, if Reno can exists without any TC (or similar minigame), norhern cities cannot. Proof? Tell me, how many players you visited in Klamath today?