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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Grommok on September 06, 2011, 02:12:00 am
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I suggest changing the skills by removing unneded one, merging similar ones, and such.
Here is a list of the skill changes that could happen right now:
1. Merging Meele and Unarmed into Close Quarters Combat or something similar, and adding Archery (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=17964.0);
2. Merging Barter and Speech into Socials or similar, and adding Crafting, that changes crafting cooldown and determines how many professions you can have (INT based);
3. Changing Gambling with Leadership, that determines how many NPCs followers you can have (CHA based) (suggesting this because slaves and merc dont care if you are ugly);
4. Merge Science and Repair with a more generic Science, and add Gathering, that affects gathering cooldown and quantity of materials gathered (STR or END based) (Note: to repair a item, if it is a weapon the formula will be based, instead of repair, on weapon skill plus half of your science minus 20)
What do you think about this?
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Very similar things have been suggested and I have always liked them. It's the best way to start eliminating the need for alting IMO.
As has been suggested before I would also like to see the throwing skill merged with melee/unarmed to further balance HtH fighters with ranged fighters and make throwing obsolete for the explosives profession.
Not sure about a gathering skill though as this would promote alting and while it is a realistic skill to have (i.e. knowledge of minerals etc.) I don't think it would be beneficial to our current situation and I think we should start cutting skills before we ad anymore.
Merging Science and repair however could be a good thing imo (likewise with trading and speech). While it's unfortunate that we need to limit character/stat uniqueness I don't see any other options.
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Actually, scypior said that we are goiung to have accounts, so limited number of chars, so having skills for this stuff allows a player to have a total gatherer/crafter, a fighter/mechanic etc etc...
It's not limiting uniqueness. In my opinion, this allows to make more characters, some very specialized, and some able to do a little everythin' ;D
For example, by adding a few skill points in Gathering to your tipycal fighter, you can fight, be paid as a merc, and in the meanwhile obtain all the mats you need for the Crafter/Medic or Crafter/Mechanic. Yes, maybe you cannot score a hit to the eyes at 100 km of distance, but this allows you to "de-specialize" chars. Technically in wasteland you cannot be too much specialized in somethin' that's not fightin'.
3. Changing Gambling with Leadership, that determines how many NPCs followers you can have (CHA based) (suggesting this because slaves and merc dont care if you are ugly);
For players thing will remain CHA-only, as it is now. Just to point ;)
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Unarmed and Melee skills should be same. I agree with that.
This suggestion bring also changes for builds and maybe even more better ones.
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0. imho skills are hardcoded and can be changed only by ____-----!!!!!!CVET!!!!!-----____
1. seems logical if bow will be included, although not nescessary
2. Crafting cooldowns will be scraped so Crafting skill would be scrapped too. This would cause only crafter/barter alts look different and would change nothing about them in general.
3. Would only make leader alts look different and change nothing.
4. Gathering is heading differnt way than cooldowns.
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Bow will not be added until 3d era, but if we merge throwing with melee/combat it will serve the same purpose.
@Grommok; I didn't realize we would be getting accounts to limit alting. That's great news, but even so, will it actually be enforced? how can it be?
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Merging skills would be good for the gameplay.
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0. imho skills are hardcoded and can be changed only by ____-----!!!!!!CVET!!!!!-----____
Guess what? You can rename-remap skills. Merging frees a slot so you can make a new skill.
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Nothing is hardcoded!
Back to subject. I think if we want to have more useful skills and less alts, then we need to connect the skills with end-game activities (still, not much of them). Adding skills for crafting/gathering is just even more alt inviting than cooldowns.
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You think?
Well, i suppose you are right. But still we need a Close Quarter Combat or similar, and i think leadership should be added, cause as i said mercs dont care if you are ugly, as long you pay them. Players of course are not merc, and they care!
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You think?
Well, i suppose you are right. But still we need a Close Quarter Combat or similar, and i think leadership should be added, cause as i said mercs dont care if you are ugly, as long you pay them. Players of course are not merc, and they care!
don`t think commbat alting is that bad afet all.
Different characters can fight different ways. one is best with knife, another is best with spear. Two different styles of fighting - two different people.
And it`s just a "MELEE" skill.
Same goes for energy, BG, SG, throwing.
There are many possible ways of making character that`s why I don`t think merging some will solve anythink.
We already have few different ways to make unarmed character (crit one, barehanded dps, power fist one) they all are different and mergin is just useless.
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Like half of skills up there are pointless.
Skilling up is flawed.
Charisma needs to be removed.
Weapon skills are meaningless, all they do is lowering other skills and making low level players useless - making earlier critters much more difficult. Random stuff is unexciting, not always bad, but when it can be reduced to nearly-100% success rate, it seems somewhat pointless. It'd be far more interesting if proficiency in weapons would be gained another way, perhaps level1 perk or whatever. And skill could increase ability to do things with your weapons. Though it might be quite hard to adjust scaling. Because crippled is binary there's no place to increase crippling rate without touching mr Random. Skill increasing damage may not be good idea either. But with more design decisions it should be possible to use skill this way.
Barter/Speech are useless skills because of charisma.
Gambling is just plain useless.
Science is missing it's purpose because there are no computers to begin with. Though idea of "dungeoning" skill is double edged, because of the alts.
Lockpick is the same school as science, but already has it's usage, OK skill.
Repair is mediocre, though not bad to have. Repairing items is a little boring currently, and it's another chance check, though it has potential in PvE scenarios, and ability to repair items is interesting, though not well executed at the moment. (I would hate if it was use a rifle to repair another, but perhaps eating up an alloy might work, and if somebody wants use another rifle, he can science it :d)
Outdoorsman speeds up travel, which is nice, but the chance driven effect of encounter avoidance makes small amounts invested in this skill useless.
First Aid is excellent skill. It is not affecting any random event, and thus both low and high amount of skillpoint invested make this skill useful regardless.
Doctor is another random check, though at least it scale cooldown, making investment a little more interesting.
Steal is for another chapter, but otherwise it's just another random check, while it has at least one interesting related perk, the skill itself is not spectacular.
Sneak is ok as a skill, but sneaking itself is dumb. This thing scales nicely, though unfortunately it does not do anything much for small investments. Generally it just deduces the amount of skill you can invest elsewhere while increasing the need of your INT.
Ofcourse if sneak and weapon skills are changed, one must be sure that hp amounts would stay relatively the same. For sneak it'd be good if it had another secondary effect that could work well even for low skill amount. (No idea here).
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just play another game, without that randomness... It was fun to kill guard on Hub respawn with almost 0 unarmed skill with energy crafter with flawed build
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We know SPECIAL is flawed especially when it comes to online gaming, but I think we still should try to be as cłose to original as possibłe. But some changes would be nice - poor gambling for example:)
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We know SPECIAL is flawed especially when it comes to online gaming, but I think we still should try to be as cłose to original as possibłe. But some changes would be nice - poor gambling for example:)
It's not just the useless skills but also the skill cap. For example sneakers need about 300% sneak (that's about 560 skillpoints) plus ghost perk to be useful. For that they need huge SPECIAL investations and then can't do anything else but sneak and shoot their weapon. In addition the best sneaks are mass drug consumers. This applies to all pvp builds but sneak is the topmost example.
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That's mostly ok, because it means you can't just pickup sneak for your tank, but have to dedicate that character completely.
just play another game, without that randomness.
Blah, it's not singleplayer anymore. While randomness is great to keep player in check in SP games, in MP games based around competition it's the worst thing to have.
Well there are many things that can be random without hurting anything, but you have to keep in mind what all you can now do better by outplaying your opponents. Macro wise it's ok, snipers snipe, guys with automatics run in. But micro, ego game is horribly poor. You can move, you have almost always just one option to shot (with good amount of critical chance it might make sense to aim for anything else than eyes, but it's about spamming eyes or burst), and you can use items. Everything else is dice & luck.
Not saying to remove anything random, but player should be involved a little more than in original game.
Just look how Tactics increased depth of the game when it had no available roleplay - adding more guys you control and adding more controls to those guys.
Also leveling suffers as well - in original SP games you were pitted vs Rats, Scorpions and stuff until you got some guns and levels to deal with bigger threat.
Fonline spawns you near a town where you cannot win any encounter and you are supposed to have fun with it. It'd make better sense if you could actually hit the stuff from your first level, and grow stronger by getting more HP and gaining more stuff to do.
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While randomness is great to keep player in check in SP games, in MP games based around competition it's the worst thing to have.
But on the other hand, it's easily exploitable in SP (save&load), which is not the case in MP.
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Well, thats true. It's just another playstyle, some like to fuck up all the game for a wrong dialog option, some want everythin' perfect.
without that randomness
Atcually randomness is something that must be in every game, the thing is that right now everything is quite screwed up, and a little too random. (fights are all about critical hits, and when they're not, they're about burstin')
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Yeah, random is fine, problem come when being unlucky or lucky change so much that in one case you will do 20 damage in 3 shots and in the other 450 damge.
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Thats waht i said ;)
Actually the only thing that is not random is crafting. Wait, there is a chance of someone waiting for you just outside raiders base to obtain your newly crafted small gun... too random. ;D
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But on the other hand, it's easily exploitable in SP (save&load), which is not the case in MP.
Depends on player. Some keep dying in 'rogue' games (those are one of the best examples of using randomness in SP) even though they keep backup of their save (in rogue games if you die, you have to start over). Other's complete them without problem.
Reason to reduce randomness in MP games is the fact there are players interacting with each others. That makes sure nothing repeats over and over because of human factor. And thus randomness build in everything feels way too artificial.
Atcually randomness is something that must be in every game
Not true, but in case of Fallout, having chance to do something is not bad. But then again, currently can do only extremely limited amount of things (like movement, that's not random), and everything else is just taking a chance.
problem come when being unlucky or lucky change so much that in one case you will do 20 damage in 3 shots and in the other 450 damge.
Very much so. But the real problem is everything is like that.
The problem is how to preserve the uncertain feeling we all love and how to increase depth of game which right now works much like casino.
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Reason to reduce randomness in MP games is the fact there are players interacting with each others. That makes sure nothing repeats over and over because of human factor.
This sounds like there is randomness in SP games only because of the fact there is no other human factor besides player. What about the PnP roots?
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In fact, randomness is much better to use in an MMO RPG than in a SP RPG, exactly because you can't save&reload. The randomness level should remain fair, though.