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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Lordus on August 16, 2011, 12:57:19 pm
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Idea: Disable some kind of weapons in exact locations.
Reason: a) Allow players to fight in low equip battles.
b) eliminate disproportion among lvl 21 tier 3 weapons powerbuilds and non pvp players
c) allow powerbuilders to create new kind of powerbuilds, different than tier 3
d) fill empty cities with some content
Similarity: Hinkley arena => different scale of weapons => different powerbuilds
I.e.: junktown city... only pistols (sg and lasers) .. similar mod to TC .. winner could win some parts needed to craft tier 3 weapons
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LSW is not a t3 item. Is it supposed to be there?
a) they are allowewd to fight with anything and kill anyone with it. Just see for crippler build with Laser Pistol,
b) there is not such thing
Winner of what?
Actually t3 weapons are not that hard to get even without crafting.
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ad a) try to use laser pistol agaisnt LSW, rocket launcher or sniper rifle.. everyone knows who would win
ad b) example: new player visit PvP free area (broken hills) with his hunting rifle and he would be killed by shot from rocket launcher => there is this thing
You dont understand the point of this suggestion, it is not that hard to get tier 3 weapons, but it is almost impossible to join PvP with low tier weapons, if everyone could you tier 3 weapons.
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I dont think that that is the way. Restrictions always bring more pain than gain. But i agree that we need some way how to make use of more weapons. Maybe via some PvE locations/quests with npcs vulnerable to certain damage type. (faleme vulnerabel, insane HP with no armor for JHP vulnerable, etc.....)
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ad a) try to use laser pistol agaisnt LSW, rocket launcher or sniper rifle.. everyone knows who would win
Sniper can lose to laser pistol if he`s outdamaged.
LSW can be crippled. RL can be blinded.
ad b) example: new player visit PvP free area (broken hills) with his hunting rifle and he would be killed by shot from rocket launcher => there is this thing
he will be killed with plasma too. Why? Becose he`s noob.
You dont understand the point of this suggestion, it is not that hard to get tier 3 weapons, but it is almost impossible to join PvP with low tier weapons, if everyone could you tier 3 weapons.
It is possible. Low tier weapons are usefull sometimes.
I`d buff shotguns...
Actually if I`ll continue Energy speakeng, Laser Rifle(t1) >>> Plasma Rifle (t3) in few ways.
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the current Tier system is kinda unbalanced now.
There are weapons
t0 - craftable without profession
t1-3 craftable with profession of same level
and there is some other weapons like Gauss Pistol, LSW, Gatling Rifle, zip-gun and other good and shitty guns.
Which ones shoul be used?
If we are speaking about t0 Items, what will you do with Laser Pistol?
If we are speaking about t0-t1 Items, what will you do with Rocket Launcher?
If we are speaking about non-tier weapons - what will you do with LSW, Gatling?
System is unbalanced and there is no way to say if there is a way to implement something like this now.
Developers are going to rework crafting system with wipe SOON so i`d rather to wait until wipe.
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Oskarus: "I dont think that that is the way. Restrictions always bring more pain than gain."
Look at the problem from different angle. Allowing players to PvP i.e. in Junktown only with pistols, is kind of deregulation, elimination of restrictions, creating an obstacles. Or: Locations are empty. Restriction that could bring new kind of gameplay is better than do what you want in players empty place.
This idea is here that i think, that players would like to fight in different kind of combats.. Many players whine, that in Hinkley you cannot use LSW and Avengers.. But on other way, competitive P90, nade and others (power)builds are often used there. By same intention and motivation, new chars specialized for pistols, unarmed or melee could be used in some location.
I.e.: Old gangs are playing TC in northern cities.. they are superior to new players because of 1-2 years betatesting knowledge (best builds, best weapons, best ammo, best knowledge how to play, best...). But "New gang", fully specialized on pistols only (Junktown pistol only place) could get their knowhow at this place and they can be superior over old gang players.
I understand you Oskarus, but seriously, i dont think that there would be possible to balance all of the weapons (and even more would be implemented after 3D). Devs. think in same way. They want to allow use some weapons in Faction scenarios (G11, maybe power armor) only, because they dont want to ruin the current balance.
So why not to use all time empty place and allow here to fight only with all time never used weapons in PvP. I remember old days, when there was not needed to TC best tier weapons, we fought with low equip agaisnt best equip and it was fun, it was something new.
Snailbeast: you are wrong, it looks like you did not participated in any TC this or past eras.
Sniper powerbuild X pistol powerbuild => 9/10 sniper will win (range advantage/hendicap). You could admit that snipers can be killed at close range, but good PvP snipers never came to close range (thats work for Avenger, LSW bursters...). At first few eras i used to wear pistol like secondary weapon... but there was no time or reason to use it.
At the end, real life similarity: Imagine situation, that there is kind of semi guarded city.. Dont kill locals, but if you want to kill non locals, you can do it. But dont use big weapons, it is restricted, because you can harm locals or guards.. It makes little sense.
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You could admit that snipers can be killed at close range, but good PvP snipers never came to close range (thats work for Avenger, LSW bursters...)
That's only a myth I don't know where it came from but I hear it all the time. This is true only in desert without buildings and stuff. Every sniper is often forced to get at close range towards his enemy. Also many kinds of (mainly doubleshot) sniper builds are vulnerable to lsw sneakers that means your sniper is dead even earlier he realizes a sneaker shot him.
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Kelin: dont waste this thread by useless posts. I used simplification in my posts to underscribe problem, that low tier weapons are not used in PVP.
Do you use 10mm pistol in PvP? Do you use 223 pistol in PvP? Yes? How many times did you shot from pistol last year? 10 000 times? 1000 times? 100 times? 10 times?
Do you understand about what is this thread?
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I have wanted something like this for a long time. I much prefer lo-tech combat as it feels more in the spirit of fallout imo. To be honest I'm just sick of everyone running around a wasteland with factory made weapons... where are the factories?
I hope the revised crafting system in the next test helps this along.
LONG LIVE THE PIPE RIFLE!
p.s. there will be more/better PvP when poor players are able to participate without having to worry about breaking their bank, not to mention fewer people will feel compelled to craft all day.
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Lordus: I don't use pistols at all but that's not the point. I know a lot of people who like pistols and have special builds suited for it. If I had something similar I would use pistols, why not.
There is plenty of low-stuff action which you can't see because you don't play this game any more. Your only goal is to make more restrictions which in fact aren't needed.
EDIT: I read your post again Lordus, actually a small pvp area in a protected town could be interesting. Knives, pistols and hammers, sounds good to me ;)
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I have wanted something like this for a long time. I much prefer lo-tech combat as it feels more in the spirit of fallout imo.
We didn't played the same Fallout I guess.
To be honest I'm just sick of everyone running around a wasteland with factory made weapons... where are the factories?
Gunrunner have one, SF have more than probably at least one, and I kinda bet NCR have more than one.
I am not a big fan of low stuff fights, as I prefer heavy optimization, and I don't like restrictions in general... But well, if some quarters of guarded towns became unguarded for low stuff I am not saying no.
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Sniper powerbuild X pistol powerbuild => 9/10 sniper will win (range advantage/hendicap). You could admit that snipers can be killed at close range, but good PvP snipers never came to close range (thats work for Avenger, LSW bursters...). At first few eras i used to wear pistol like secondary weapon... but there was no time or reason to use it.
It works for vacuum only...
And you didn`t tell me what kinds of weapon do you expect to be used. Unarmed/Melee only?
Whats up with others? There still will be difference between Super Sledge user and knife user.
Allowing some small pistols? How to decide which are small ones?
I generally like basis of idea but I don`t see any way to implement.
We used to organise some tournaments in "Muha", but that was tournaments, nothing more.
We even have forbidden Super Sledge, Ripper and Cattle Prods.
Melee/unarmed are hard-to-keep-in-contact weapons, you are lucky if you killed someone with it.
You should make some rules to try implementing something like this.
Which weapons shouldn`t be used?
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I agree with Lordus. Variety of weapons used would add a spice to this monotonous game. Pistol city TC full of cripplers or Tier 0 city with shotguns hell yeah (not to mention all melee or unarmed locations =D). Why anyone would be against this? For once old timers wouldnt make any difference and all people could join.
More people to join = more fun = more players.
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I agree with Lordus. Variety of weapons used would add a spice to this monotonous game. Pistol city TC full of cripplers or Tier 0 city with shotguns hell yeah (not to mention all melee or unarmed locations =D). Why anyone would be against this? For once old timers wouldnt make any difference and all people could join.
More people to join = more fun = more players.
Balance weaponry. Flamer > shotgun, Laser pistol > both.
Remember, there is no BA, Metal Armor on t0.
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Well, agreed on the fact that it's boring everyone has the best equipment out there, and it's what the players will do everytime. Even if we rebalance items, there will always be that set of 'best' weaponry, which will be used most of the time.
Don't really like the way it would be enforced though...
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Gunrunner have one [gun factory], SF have more than probably at least one, and I kinda bet NCR have more than one.
then it makes sense that players should be buying high tier weapons from them and not crafting them in a cave somewhere... thats hardly possible these days but after a nuclear apocalypse I don't think it would be any easier. Besides, thats exactly why everyone is running around with top tier gadgets and yet I still can't make a simple pipe-rifle :(
What I would like to see balanced is the importance of crafting versus scavenging. Right now we scavenge just to craft, not to find whole (deteriorated) items. Of course we don't want scorpions giving us CA's (diablo styles) but maybe every now and then when I'm looking for junk there's an old discarded 10mm lying about just waiting for someone to fix it up, or maybe I encounter a camp site (non-player) and find a few goodies lying around.... maybe with a few critters guarding them.
We didn't played the same Fallout I guess.
I am not a big fan of low stuff fights, as I prefer heavy optimization, and I don't like restrictions in general... But well, if some quarters of guarded towns became unguarded for low stuff I am not saying no.
Maybe we didn't play the same fallout :p To me its about a struggle and thats hard to swallow when everyone is dressed to the nines in home-made military issue combat gear. Anyone who has been playing for a month has a system for obtaining this level of items but imo Fallout was always about chance! The CHANCE that I would find something awesome just like the CHANCE that an ant would critically bypass my power-armour for 500 points of crippling damage! :p
I feel like we need more chance and more struggle, and in a way that evens things out between old players and new players. IMHO of course
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Balance weaponry. Flamer > shotgun, Laser pistol > both.
Remember, there is no BA, Metal Armor on t0.
is
Unless your arms are crippled before u start the flame :) Rather than tiers in general Itd be better to have small weapons t0. EW would win anyways due to their long range. Also sniper t0 would be too OP.
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still, the hunting rifle shoud be more powerfull than the sniper, but with less range
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still, the hunting rifle shoud be more powerfull than the sniper, but with less range
totally bullshit ?
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still, the hunting rifle shoud be more powerfull than the sniper, but with less range
That's a bad joke mon.
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still, the hunting rifle shoud be more powerfull than the sniper, but with less range
that's kind of extreme, but considering they both fire the same caliber rounds they should maybe have similar damage rating... right now I think the hunting rifle is too underpowered, especially considering how much damage the .223 pistol does.
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Technically the .223 pistol was somethin' unique, that's why is so strong. Plus it a "shrinked down rifle", with some additional stuff. It should be superior in damage terms but should have a much lesser range, to correcly balance it. (after all, you can make shitloads of them since they are craftable)