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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Bartosz on June 18, 2011, 02:44:15 pm
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Hey good people,
As the changes to the faction system are inevitable (that's what we all should agree upon), we're thinking about different things that we should tackle.
One of them (and the one this thread will be about, I also hope to spawn a 'series' of such threads) are faction rights. Current system is artificial, and not useful, we need something better, but also simple and customizable. I'd like to hear the ideas here, but would be good to have them well described (better have few good posts here, than a wave of free and uncontrolled discussion).
The first thing that came to my mind when I was thinking about it, was a way to create customizable faction ranks. So that each faction could create as many ranks as they need (depending on the size of their structures). But each of that rank, to be meaningful, should carry on more information that it does now (value describing that one rank is lower/higher than other).
That's why I thought to allow those ranks to be built from 'rights' - a single piece that means 'you can do something'. Those rights would be following:
- Invite
- Expel
- Access to base X - access to base identified as X
- Grant X - allows player to give other the rank X
Then, imagine we've got hypothetical faction with 2 bases, they could arrange their structures as following (list of ranks with rights):
- 'Recruit': Access base 1
- 'Member': Access base 1, Access base 2, Invite, Grant 'Member'
- 'Leader': Access base 1, Access base 2, Invite, Expel, Grant 'Member', Grant 'Leader'
And a sidenote: I do hope we're gonna introduce changes to faction system as soon as possible, but please bear with the fact that it might not happen soon!
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I think resources should always be accessible by all gang members, they are in that faction and if they shouldn't be allowed to get them simply they don't should be added to faction. Maybe could useful if members (not recruits) could have some "private locker" only accessible by that member: he should have to use the terminal "Miscellaneous" ----> "Select personal locker" ----> "Locker 1-2-3..." . If they are already in use, the locker can't be used. To allow everyone to have at least one locker, each base should have an "All members and recruits locker" usable by every gang mate. I.e, in cave base the first locker is free for all members and others not. This way "traitors" couldn't make base robbing.
The ranks, for me, could be very fun to play if the rank could allow the player to make some special dialogues.
NPC could talk with him in a different way based on rank, for exemple a Leader could speak with BOS patrols identifying him as faction leader using a dialogue.
This way the leader could speak to non-hostile NPC members of other facions to make an alliance with that faction and could have access to some place where they can get Faction points for all of his gang mates. After have gained... 1000 points, by
trading and doing quests, one time per month ONE NPC of this faction could be along the gang in TC, appering close to the leader during TC, with full gear and guns.
The "Members" could speak on encounters to them after a Charisma check and be able to increase the gang reputation with the faction, by killing the faction adversaries on WP, like killing mutants when he find them battling BOS Patrol. Recruit can't speak with them.
The more gang reputation is higher with faction, the more Faction points can be gained in one time by gang leader.
If the gang increases to... 1000 his reputation, NPC allied could protect him if he's attacked by a player on WP, but only if he doesen't shoot first.
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It was very good idea to make this initiative.
- Invite
- Expel
- Access to X - access to resource identified as X
- Grant X - allows player to give other the rank X
Then, imagine we've got hypothetical faction with 2 bases, they could arrange their structures as following (list of ranks with rights):
- 'Recruit': Access base 1
- 'Member': Access base 1, Access base 2, Invite, Grant 'Member'
- 'Leader': Access base 1, Access base 2, Invite, Expel, Grant 'Member', Grant 'Leader'
Sounds very good. Multiple bases for gangs makes things much easier.
Players who are set as faction friends should be protected by town militia, but cannot activate it.
High ranking players should be able to instantly tag enemies or friends of faction in the field. It's tiresome to travel to the base and add the names in terminal, especially when it's some difficult name you have to dig it from meslogs.
At some point a common information bulletin accessible by all members everywhere through pip boy would be nice. Otherwise players just use mumble, irc or forums. In this bulleting players could make notes about general info. The faction terminal could actually exist in every member's pip boy.
The ranks, for me, could be very fun to play if the rank could allow the player to make some special dialogues.
Not very practical since most faction leaders are shared dummy accounts and can't see any way to change that, except to have shared leadership between multiple players. And if the dialogues were beneficial, the faction would make leaders from all its chars.
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I think containers are good thing, if one could limit access to a specific container only for specific part of the team it would be great :)
Cars are also valuble: An idea could be also, to make a base have a car parking next to it (maybe world map, one base and very close to it a car parking) where there would also be possibility to allow only choosen people to use the cars :)
Tents: I think a command to add people to tents/remove. Would be very usefull aswell, then ofcourse if you want to remove someone you will have to kill him in tent i guess :) (Or even better, kill him anywhere, so if you know someone has access, you can track them down and kill em, great for roleplay - player vs player scenarios).
Lockers are limited: There is however problem with space limit for lockers then, which could be solved with Rooms? Most of the bases got houses with doors, so many doors could be locked instead of containers (or just make the containers that are supposed to be limited, without capacity limit or higher it few times at least, or make them 2 or 3 as a group lockers).
Location of Bases: I think a good idea could be to allow players send distresses in bases, so they dont need to show the way to people, which often ends up just annoying and a lot of relloging. (ofcourse, if someone aquires the signal, he could come inside the base, but wont see it when distress disapears)
A far wish of Faction relation system: I wish that there was an extended faction vs faction reputation system just like between NPC factions and players. This would effectivize the militia slightly (might then be no need for super duper militia like now). If name colourizing is back, it would also be a lot easier to see who is enemy who not. Same goes with mercs behaivour and slaves AND usefull versus NPC aswell. I think its a good idea for a faction to allow them have a war with NCR for exemple, and if they want peace, then they have to pay them. State of war between NPC and Player factions could allow the members of NPC faction to attack the player factions, ofcrouse if relations between that NPC faction and the town the fight is happening in are good, and NPC factions wins capturing the town, they might hold it for few days and then give back control to the past owners (NCR is pretty specific here i think, as they earn more on doing trade with towns then owning them). Other NPC factions could react diffrently i think, specific for their "lore", like BoS, they shouldint hold anything. Enclave should extrerminate. VC maybe enslave and drain all the resources before leaving. Raiders could just raid without capturing, which would give them caps by each civilian killed and so on and so on... 8)
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The first thing that came to my mind when I was thinking about it, was a way to create customizable faction ranks. So that each faction could create as many ranks as they need (depending on the size of their structures). But each of that rank, to be meaningful, should carry on more information that it does now (value describing that one rank is lower/higher than other).
That sounds perfect, it's one of the things we need. With the ability to choose the location of your base.
That's why I thought to allow those ranks to be built from 'rights' - a single piece that means 'you can do something'. Those rights would be following:
- Invite
- Expel
- Access to X - access to resource identified as X
- Grant X - allows player to give other the rank X
There should be also
- Access to base X
- Grant to base X - access and allow to give access
- Delete a right
Cars are also valuble: An idea could be also, to make a base have a car parking next to it (maybe world map, one base and very close to it a car parking) where there would also be possibility to allow only choosen people to use the cars :)
I agree. Ability to expand your parking can be good also, because we ended up with some "parking base" because we didn't had enough parking spots.
Location of Bases: I think a good idea could be to allow players send distresses in bases, so they dont need to show the way to people, which often ends up just annoying and a lot of relloging. (ofcourse, if someone aquires the signal, he could come inside the base, but wont see it when distress disapears)
I don't agree, first can it can be dangerous to bring people in your base because of that, but also cause the signal won't diseappear (it won't as long the location is active).
It is great to see the faction system is finally reworked :D
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Not very practical since most faction leaders are shared dummy accounts and can't see any way to change that, except to have shared leadership between multiple players. And if the dialogues were beneficial, the faction would make leaders from all its chars.
A base could have just one leader, and leader rank shouldn't be shareable. One faction - one leader.
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There should be also
- Access to base X
- Grant to base X - access and allow to give access
- Delete a right
I'm thinking about grant/remove rank vs give/take right. While the former is essentialy 'give/take group of rights' (I hope you're following), and it makes easy to manage groups, the latter gives you more flexibility, but also makes system a bit more complicated, kinda like managing IT system. That's why I wonder whether it's needed at all, and whether it would be fine with only giving/taking certain ranks (with possibility to have multiple ranks?).
There is also question what about players that are not members of your faction, but you want them to be able to access your base for example (friends from current system). Maybe we should allow giving a rank to non-members?
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I'm thinking about grant/remove rank vs give/take right. While the former is essentialy 'give/take group of rights' (I hope you're following), and it makes easy to manage groups, the latter gives you more flexibility, but also makes system a bit more complicated, kinda like managing IT system. That's why I wonder whether it's needed at all, and whether it would be fine with only giving/taking certain ranks (with possibility to have multiple ranks?).
Well, if you can create ranks, with rights associated and fully customizables, for me it's a very effective system and not so complicated for the possibilities it gives. It's a bit like the management of mumble LCA :P
If you can do that, I think the grant/remove rank system is enough. But you can have also the give/take right system, both working together. I dunno if it's necessary, like ranks are enough (you will be able to obtain the same result through ranks), but well, why not have all possibilities?
There is also question what about players that are not members of your faction, but you want them to be able to access your base for example (friends from current system). Maybe we should allow giving a rank to non-members?
Well, friends status is mainly used for the same faction who have many bases. But yeah, why not give this possibility, it can be useful.
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A base could have just one leader, and leader rank shouldn't be shareable. One faction - one leader.
The point is that players make a dummy char and share the password.
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few acces levels. from low to high. low - can acces just workbench and own locker. + maybe if player take stuff from ground or locker - he get shoot from mercenarie that guard base.
acces to stuff in lockers by faction terminal (?) sounds not so falloutish :(
as i see acces lvl can make base not possible to rob by faction members, if they have low/high value, that depends not just by add/remove members + but by stuff acces lvl. ?
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The faction members can share their characters even now, so what's the problem?
About the "falloutish" thing, this game have lot "unfalloutish" things, we must be aware that this is still a game, so if something could improve it, I think should be at least considered. I think this could be a useful idea for base security.
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About the "falloutish" thing, this game have lot "unfalloutish" things, we must be aware that this is still a game, so if something could improve it, I think should be at least considered. I think this could be a useful idea for base security.
people play in not falloutish way. other people - just play like in fallout. so improve game by system that have no life in fo1 and fo2 have no reason. this improves can make from fonline simple fantasy based game with multyplayer.
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people play in not falloutish way. other people - just play like in fallout. so improve game by system that have no life in fo1 and fo2 have no reason. this improves can make from fonline simple fantasy based game with multyplayer.
Most of the new players in the server are newbs to Fallout style, or only play FO3 and NV, this game should try to be more friendly to those newbs teaching them what is the truly Fallout world and the cultural aspects waited from his actions in the game, such as NO pwning or lolol language.
After all people being like idiot cold killers or masive trollers end up looking like a real postapocaliptic flock or at least have certain cultural references to.....something. Im trying to explain that the actual Fonline world made by all of his players looks like a truly postapocaliptic world, it has no rule, everybody looks cold and cruel (tough most of they arent) people kills only because they can, and its a horrible battle for the power of do anything (including shit gathering). BUT MOST OF THE PLAYERS ARE IGNORANT OF THAT (like in a truly postapocaliptic world) so make all those pwnzors, trollers and retarded players know that they are perpetuing the idea of a harsh world with his idiot activities maybe will make those guys to RP, BECAUSE RP MEANS THAT THEY WILL STILL DOING THE SAME THINGS, BUT WITH A DIFERENT PURPOSE OR WAY, RP dont means to be a Hub farmer, it means to be the survivor of the hell in the earth, and it gives you the right to do anything you want, with the only condition of be Falloutistic while doing it.
I hope you understand, if not is probably becasue my crappy english
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acces to stuff in lockers by faction terminal (?) sounds not so falloutish :(
We tend to agree, we think we're just gonna settle with making bases accessible to some ranks only:
as i see acces lvl can make base not possible to rob by faction members, if they have low/high value, that depends not just by add/remove members + but by stuff acces lvl. ?
If I understood you correctly, then yes:)
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how about Leader(rank 10) can edit the ranks
select rank you whant to edit(1-10)
and for ech rank exept 10 you can select this:
Name: rank x(ex:new comer, newbi, Private)
Bases availeble: base 1, base 2...
Invite rights:no/yes
Data base edit rights: no/yes(adding faction friends/enemies)
Rank change:no/yes
Start rank: no/yes/for this base only(in case of multibpe bases if you join base 1 you have rank 1, if you have base 2 you have rank 2...)
for rannk 10 you can only edit the name(nice for RP factions to call the leader general/cheiftain/...) and he has all access to everyplace instantly
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A far wish of Faction relation system:
Could be great to simply add another player faction as enemy. This way all members and friends of faction see the enemy as red and the militia and mercs autoattack that enemy. Atm we have to add the names from screenshots and dig them from meslogs individually.
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Most of the new players in the server are newbs to Fallout style, or only play FO3 and NV, this game should try to be more friendly to those newbs teaching them what is the truly Fallout world and the cultural aspects waited from his actions in the game, such as NO pwning or lolol language.
After all people being like idiot cold killers or masive trollers end up looking like a real postapocaliptic flock or at least have certain cultural references to.....something. Im trying to explain that the actual Fonline world made by all of his players looks like a truly postapocaliptic world, it has no rule, everybody looks cold and cruel (tough most of they arent) people kills only because they can, and its a horrible battle for the power of do anything (including shit gathering). BUT MOST OF THE PLAYERS ARE IGNORANT OF THAT (like in a truly postapocaliptic world) so make all those pwnzors, trollers and retarded players know that they are perpetuing the idea of a harsh world with his idiot activities maybe will make those guys to RP, BECAUSE RP MEANS THAT THEY WILL STILL DOING THE SAME THINGS, BUT WITH A DIFERENT PURPOSE OR WAY, RP dont means to be a Hub farmer, it means to be the survivor of the hell in the earth, and it gives you the right to do anything you want, with the only condition of be Falloutistic while doing it.
I hope you understand, if not is probably becasue my crappy english
good for me to read this...
u just tell all that some players understand from starting game. and some players never take a point from ur text. so no reason to tell to troll or killers-because-they-can-and-have-nothing-to-doo in this way
u need simple comic book with troll face images and *boom* *lol* *pwned* pictures inside... i bet only good art or hardcore punishment from gms can change people that act like idiots in game. :D
ur english for me like clean text ;)
i bet part (evil pwnzors/rp/other part) of players that *pick up* newcomer can change newcomers expierence and destiny in fonline :D
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I think what scypior described would greatly make it easier to organize players in a terminal. Each terminal should be connected to each base, too. Any improvement would be better than how it is now.
Also, instead of how the Member list is now, I think it should be changed so that there is a list of members in a row, organized either by Joining date or Alphabetical.
ex:
*Member1
*Member2
*Member3
And then, you click on the member, and then you get the rank options.
This next part would probably require some sort of engine change, but it would be nice to be able to select multiple members at the same time to make it not as time consuming to go into each person's options separately.
Maybe we should allow giving a rank to non-members?
The more customizable it is, the better. If the members in charge want their Friend to have some rights too, then let them. They can always choose not to use it, but if it is available, there isn't a downside.
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I think what scypior described would greatly make it easier to organize players in a terminal. Each terminal should be connected to each base, too. Any improvement would be better than how it is now.
Does it even have to be terminal? Can't the faction management be handled anywhere through pipboy since the leader has access to the terminal anyway? There's no balance-related reason to force the leader to go in the base and toggle the terminal.
Also, instead of how the Member list is now, I think it should be changed so that there is a list of members in a row, organized either by Joining date or Alphabetical.
ex:
*Member1
*Member2
*Member3
And preferrably browsable by mousewheel.
And then, you click on the member, and then you get the rank options.
Exactly.
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Does it even have to be terminal? Can't the faction management be handled anywhere through pipboy since the leader has access to the terminal anyway? There's no balance-related reason to force the leader to go in the base and toggle the terminal.
Preferably, it would be via web browser as well.
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Preferably, it would be via web browser as well.
Oh my, that would be awesome ! Also, we could manage ennemies and relations with factions in an easy way (who said NC? ;p). A web interface can easily be better than the one we have to use IG.
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It'd make it essentialy the same as WoW guilds. While that word is profanity for quite a bunch of audience, it does not make the idea any worse.
In regards of Fallout canon you could just use Mr. Handy to access stuff, however that's still a little bit too silly.
Or alternatively one could have their personal access card, not that weird, yet still make one wonder how to hide it for themselfs.
Alas, if you can ban people from base, how'd that work when you bring new people to it?
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Well, another idea could be to have some hole in a base, or stairs leading downstairs into the ground, where there would be a kind of storage. However, this would be protected by a code, so if you want to open the door you have to put in a code set by leader? :) That way we would skip the locker unrealistical way of working beign unaccessible for some and not for others.
Simillar thing could be done to cars, an underground parking place.