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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Ulrek on May 25, 2011, 09:53:43 pm
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Alright, since Solar has mentioned that slaves and mercenaries will run off now, i thought i would throw out one of my own nut job ideas once again..
It's pretty simple, if you have a high enough speech skill, you should be able to convince a NPC to join you without force, 25 speech to get the weakest shitty rave party type NPC's, but in order to hire a more powerful random NPC you'd need more, 150 skill for something that could be actually useful like a homesteader or other civilian NPC, and if you have 200+ you should be able to convince the lower skill random caravan guards.
Basicly if you take speech rather then doctor or a useful combat skill, you can get better NPC's for almost free, but a slaver will be better in dealing damage themselves.
Once again i admit this is another one of my crackpot ideas, but companion ideas are so trendy right now. ^,.,^
-Ulrek-
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thats sounds awsome but i there has to be limitations
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thats sounds awsome but i there has to be limitations
You would only be able to recruit NPC's without a more important duty, so no big trading company guards, no NCR soldiers, or anyone else that wouldn't just drop their old lives for adventure if a good offer came up, just like you cant enslave raiders since their assholes who won't change their ways.
-Ulrek-
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Good idea. I've never tought about that kinda thing, mon!
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Did i read that right? Make a high speech alt (already used by many for trading) go to random encounters pick up slaves...i mean loyal followers, sell to metgzer rinse and repeat for a cap farm?
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Did i read that right? Make a high speech alt (already used by many for trading) go to random encounters pick up slaves...i mean loyal followers, sell to metgzer rinse and repeat for a cap farm?
Yep, or there could be a certain amount of time till another can be joined
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Yep, or there could be a certain amount of time till another can be joined
oh god, my mouth tired and is so dry from talking to people....
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Did i read that right? Make a high speech alt (already used by many for trading) go to random encounters pick up slaves...i mean loyal followers, sell to metgzer rinse and repeat for a cap farm?
They're not slaves, and last time i checked you cannot sell mercenaries to the slavers guild, so you cannot use them to mine or to sell, basicly making them like very weak mercenaries that will turn on you if you hurt them too much.
-Ulrek-
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You will be able to convince some npcs to join you. Though they are special npcs, not encounter guys.
These npcs would be like your group of friends (you wouldn't sell them)
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You will be able to convince some npcs to join you. Though they are special npcs, not encounter guys.
These npcs would be like your group of friends (you wouldn't sell them)
Now I'm more interested. So whats happening? or is it a.... Wait till wipe happens to find out sorta thing...?
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There will be 3 different types of human-like merc.
Your good old fashioned merc, Slaves and then this new class which I call companions, but will likely pick up some player invented term as HQ materials did.
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i have an idea also, you could offer free beer to random npcs then enslave them after they are drunk. When they wake up - they wont know what hit em!
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i have an idea also, you could offer free beer to random npcs then enslave them after they are drunk. When they wake up - they wont know what hit em!
They should be able to do the same to You :D
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Ask yourselves, If beer will knock someone off their feat, do you really want them watching your back?
And, the "Companions" thing sounds nice, but with you no longer able to keep any kind followers for very long, what is the point of adding new ones? unless these will be like companions from FO1/2, which follow you around for almost free unless you hit them by mistake..
-Ulrek-
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Ask yourselves, If beer will knock someone off their feat, do you really want them watching your back?
The beer comment was to enslave npc not them being a companion or one to depend on since they are a slave after all.
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i have an idea also, you could offer free beer to random npcs then enslave them after they are drunk. When they wake up - they wont know what hit em!
Rot gut. I doubt a few beers are gona get them into that state lolz
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The beer comment was to enslave npc not them being a companion or one to depend on since they are a slave after all.
Guns that jam are bad, and so are combat slaves that are weak and cant fight when you need them to defend you, slaves or not, their job is to serve and protect you, so they effectively are watching your back.
-Ulrek-
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Or carry our junk lolz
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You will be able to convince some npcs to join you. Though they are special npcs, not encounter guys.
These npcs would be like your group of friends (you wouldn't sell them)
in fo2 they were like your group of friends... that you could betray and sell them as slaves to a slaver, which should obviously have serious consequences.
Also, these "Companion npcs", will they respawn after death? Will you need to re-friendship them after death?
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Also, these "Companion npcs", will they respawn after death? Will you need to re-friendship them after death?
Mercs
Come fully levelled, with the equipment they use already armed.
You give them extra ammo to use and keep paying them in caps to keep their loyalty up.
When they die, they die.
Slaves
Come as they are. Generally will be lower level and with crap equipment, but they can gain levels.
You can arm them with other weapons (I think we still need to decide some kind of restrictions here though) and you keep them drugged up with Jet to keep their loyalty high (or beat them for a small effect ;) )
When they die, they die too.
Companions
Come as weak as kittens, little/no equipment. They will level (You should be able to specify how you want them to level too "Train with Big Guns you useless worm!").
They can be given anything - should put on armour, should use the fanciest of weapons. These will require food to keep their loyalty high.
When they die (or run off) they will respawn somewhere for you to go and collect - you will lose their stuff though.
Mercs are your ready made guys, it will be less expensive to keep them alive, as start up costs are a lot higher than the upkeep.
Slaves are ... your slaves. Sell them, make them mine in your private mine, make them stand in your base and look pretty, whatever. They won't be awesome combat guys, but they'll be useful fodder - but they will turn on you rather than just running away.
Companions are indeed like your fo2 friends - we will need some way of getting rid of them, so perhaps you will be able to sell them (though we will put something in to stop it being a lucrative trade choice - thats what slaves are for).
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hmm, intresting but i have 1 question:
How about limits with this kinds of folowers, how many of each player will be able to have?
Does 1CH and Magnetic Personality allow to have them?
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You should be able to get a companion with just those, yeah (You would need some level of speech to get Mag Personality though). Follower limits depend on Ch, Speech, Mag Personality and a Trait.
In general I've been trying to make most things more useful without having to max out on skills (ie build an alt for them). The new follower system isn't an exception.
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[
Companions
Come as weak as kittens, little/no equipment. They will level (You should be able to specify how you want them to level too "Train with Big Guns you useless worm!").
They can be given anything - should put on armour, should use the fanciest of weapons. These will require food to keep their loyalty high.
When they die (or run off) they will respawn somewhere for you to go and collect - you will lose their stuff though.
Now, solar, the other changes i think i can deal with, but i want to know, in what world does feeding people extra large amounts of hotdogs and old TV dinners make them more willing to die for you?
And is that really the only way to make someone like you more? don't you think giving them BA and a P90c would make them more loyal then a hotdog or two?
*Edit* Oh, and just to be clear about this, i am still happy that progress is being made, and i don't want to just annoy you, i just think some of these ideas have a few holes in them, once again if i misunderstand what you've said than i will apologize.
-Ulrek-
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People aren't happy when you are providing for their needs?
Weird, I guess the long list of civil unrest due to the people in power failing to provide food for their population doesn't apply ;)
At the end of the day you need an upkeep mechanic so you aren't getting a totally free power multiplication that can never be lost. They need food to be a suitable drain - giving them equipment increases their power and also increases their cost, food is simply a baseline. Having armour and guns will also help in fights, making it less likely for them to run, so it does factor.
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People aren't happy when you are providing for their needs?
Weird, I guess the long list of civil unrest due to the people in power failing to provide food for their population doesn't apply ;)
At the end of the day you need an upkeep mechanic so you aren't getting a totally free power multiplication that can never be lost. They need food to be a suitable drain - giving them equipment increases their power and also increases their cost, food is simply a baseline. Having armour and guns will also help in fights, making it less likely for them to run, so it does factor.
Hmm, i can see your logic there, about providing for their needs, but they are not slaves as you have mentioned, and they are free to leave of their own free will, so they should be able to keep themselves fed and gather their own supplies if needed, but honestly as long as the value of their gear adds in to their loyalty score i'll be happy.
As for the concept that an upkeep cost balances improved power, it really does not balance it, take for example car insurance, you might be able to afford the base price of your car, but if you cannot pay the upkeep then your car is useless, just like the mercenaries which will flee if you do not pay the upkeep, effectively they are useless.
Now, lets look at the group of real life people who can probably afford a crappy car but not the insurance, to those who can afford both, those who have a steady income are those who can afford it, since they might not have a very high short term income, but as long as they have a medium steady income for as long as they own the car, they can afford it, now people who don't have a steady income have a hard time affording it, even if they make a fairly large amount of money when they do, since it does run out after a while.
Now compare that to the player base, we have the usual players who aren't that rich, and make their money in bursts, since they spend a few odd hours a week playing and gathering resources, but not steadily over a week, so they have to constantly keep farming in order to keep the resources needed to supply their junky slaves and greedy mercenaries and hungry companions.
And on the other hand we have bigger to medium sized factions who can support each other, and supply jet from TCing to the slaver who needs it for the slaves he has guarding the bases, and help share caps to fund mercenary assaults, and drop off old TV dinners they find to give to the guy with all the cool companions.
So in effect, you are not balancing the PvP side of mercenaries and slaves, but rather increasing the cost of keeping them, so that they are too costly to keep on hand for mundane use, and should be kept with the gauss pistols and other weapons for the big battles, but since they require upkeep, they cannot be kept and used effectively by people who only play a few hours a week.
And, finally, i think we can all agree, no one likes paying car insurance... in a game or real life..
-Ulrek-
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Solar, The new l=folower sistem will rule the day!!!!!!
i always whanted my sidekick to join combat with me, and he will never going to die
to finish theme you can give a comand like: it's time to change ways with you, good luck. or something
I LOVE THE WAY THIS GAME IS HEADING
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If you had 4 Melee companions for example, you would have no drain at all, but you would have a good increase in power level. With the upkeep cost you do have your drain and if you arm them with ranged weapons and armour then the drain increases.
The upkeep costs aren't going to be huge, especially if you are just an average character with a couple of followers. If you try to max out on Melee mercs and a full compliment of Slaves, then it might get slighlty costly - but then you've gone for an extreme build and you must accomodate that.
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It sounds fair I feel. I mostly looking forward to have a group the companions I surely gonna try to get 1-2 to follow me. Btw did I understand it good the melee fighters I have will be able to learn to use ranged weapons?
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A companion wil come at level 1, you'll then tell him to follow a certain path in his levelling.
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Is it just skills that said companions will gain? Or for example i tell him to go melee/HtH would he get crits or more melee dmg perks? Also will it cost something to get them back in your group after they die/leave? If not then nothing will stop suicide runs with them.
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Hopefully all critters will be getting appropriate perks, depending on their level.
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Also will it cost something to get them back in your group after they die/leave? If not then nothing will stop suicide runs with them.
Third time asking this question... this is obviously most important if we're gonna bother levelling them.
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I imagine it will reduce their loyalty somewhat, so repeatedly killing them wouldn't be good. The respawn stuff waits for exam season to be over, so its not final yet
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Solar at this point i love you more than life itself for all the great info. If there is anything I can do for or to you let me know ;)
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Solar, i would be interested in knowing if you will get xp for follower kills like in FNV? Dont know how other people feel about it, but i find it really hard to lvl as a "companion-leader" atm.
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Solar, i would be interested in knowing if you will get xp for follower kills like in FNV? Dont know how other people feel about it, but i find it really hard to lvl as a "companion-leader" atm.
agreed, follower builds are slowly becoming impossibly weak to do anything but craft for Exp.
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A group of HtH mercs can easily beat a pack of Mutated Molerats, so powerleveling yourself by using mercs isn't something I would prefer.
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A group of HtH mercs can easily beat a pack of Mutated Molerats, so powerleveling with mercs isn't something I would prefer.
A Crippler, sniper, or hell, anything that can aim to the eyes can easily kill mutated molerats. Big guns with improved flamer is 1-hit kills on Mutated Molerats, Grenades when you group them together = 1 grenade each. (Throw 5 grenade + 5 Molerat = 100 damaged = 5 dead molerat one grenade each.
It's all the same.... why do leader builds have to suffer? Is like they are the emo kid all by himself around the corner in this case.
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They won't. They're levelling themselves.
You shouldn't need a specific build to use followers
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On the contrary, i think we need more requirement to be leader.
(the necessity to level up the character AND the followers, to use them efficiently)
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On the contrary, i think we need more requirement to be leader.
(the necessity to level up the character AND the followers, to use them efficiently)
Thus leading to more Alts.
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They won't. They're levelling themselves.
You shouldn't need a specific build to use followers
Your confusing me now... Don't we need charisma to have followers? Wasn't it mentioned we would have to powerlevel our speech skill to have more followers as well?
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It will depend on Ch, Speech, Mag Personality and a trait.
If all you had was 1 Ch and 30 Speech you would still be able to get the lowest merc and 3 slaves - I don't really consider that to be a specific follower build, yet it would still be using followers.
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But what to do if you cant even handle a weapon yourself cause you chose non-combat skills and just got the followers to do the killing, how you supposed to lvl up fairly without spending months for max lvl by crafting things?
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You're free to choose your skills. Its really not hard to invest a few skill points to level more quickly.
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With the current plans, do you mind telling me the maximum amount of slaves that a person will be able to own at one time? Thanks.
And, will 10 Charisma have a use? Or will you still need 9 Charisma as the max to be able to get Magnetic Personality?
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The max would be 8 slaves in theory.
MP could be taken at Ch 10
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Will slaves/companions if they level up enough and have the correct stats needed be able to use things like haymaker? I dream of having an army of slaves with +15% crit chance ;D
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Thats the idea at least.
The auto leveller isn't written yet and sometimes what is in my head comes up against the immovable wall of what is possible when a scripter gets hold of it, but I'm pretty hopefull it will work in the end.
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Creating a high-quality speech height already used by many to be traded to pick up slaves, and random ... I mean loyal followers, a ceiling of farm sales to metgzer rinse and repeat?
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Do you mean "can I be a slaver?" If so then yes
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The max would be 8 slaves in theory.
MP could be taken at Ch 10
This. Sounds. AMAZING! I really like where followers slaves are going. :D
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Alright, 8 slaves is good, for purposes of holding and then selling for trading and such.
Another question that was on my mind that I hope you will answer is about dogs and especially brahmin. You might have said something about it before, but I can't remember where it was, so here's my question:
How will the global limits affect brahmin and dogs? Being able to collecting a herd of brahmin like pre-Global limits would be amazing. :)
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Alright, 8 slaves is good, for purposes of holding and then selling for trading and such.
Another question that was on my mind that I hope you will answer is about dogs and especially brahmin. You might have said something about it before, but I can't remember where it was, so here's my question:
How will the global limits affect brahmin and dogs? Being able to collecting a herd of brahmin like pre-Global limits would be amazing. :)
wasnt there something along the lines of requiring dogs to herd more brahmin, i'd also like to know the limits.
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Dogs are just another type of merc, brahmin are like Slaves - but depend on the number of dogs.
I don't have the exact limits here, but its something like 1 + (#dogs/2) brahmin ... which would give you a limit of 4 or 5 brahmin.
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So the brahmin count towards slave cap and dogs count toward merc cap?
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So the brahmin count towards slave cap and dogs count toward merc cap?
They arent just "followers"? last time i checked they were followers.
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This is for the update silly. From what I've gathered mercs have a separate amount compared to slaves.
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Finally!
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There is one allowance for mercs/companions/dogs.
Then the amount of mercs/companions decides how many slaves you can have.
Then the number of dogs decides how many brahmin you can have.
You'll be able to have pretty large parties, but it'll be expensive and a bit of a pain to manage. Its more been designed for the mid range parties which won't require a dedicated character to achieve.
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There is one allowance for mercs/companions/dogs.
Then the amount of mercs/companions decides how many slaves you can have.
Then the number of dogs decides how many brahmin you can have.
You'll be able to have pretty large parties, but it'll be expensive and a bit of a pain to manage. Its more been designed for the mid range parties which won't require a dedicated character to achieve.
Question: will dogs count like mercs of they will be just "dogs"?
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I thought it rather obvious with the statement of "There is one allowance for mercs/companions/dogs." Then again I don't see why mercs couldnt keep brahmin under control
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Dogs will count as mercs, they'll just take less room than most. Dogs herd brahmin to give them something unique.
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Dogs will count as mercs, they'll just take less room than most. Dogs herd brahmin to give them something unique.
Good. thanks.
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Dogs will count as mercs, they'll just take less room than most. Dogs herd brahmin to give them something unique.
If they count as mercs. Do we have to pay they with something? *puts caps in a tiny barrel hanging from dogs neck* o.O
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If they count as mercs. Do we have to pay they with something? *puts caps in a tiny barrel hanging from dogs neck* o.O
We just found a use for Meat Jerky, i suppose. Mmmm... a dry meat jerky... useless than junk right now, mon.
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So I will need mercs to keep my slaves in line is what you're saying? Will I still be able to get trapper slaves and give them hunting rifles? :D
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Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes.
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We just found a use for Meat Jerky, i suppose. Mmmm... a dry meat jerky... useless than junk right now, mon.
aweh.... There goes my Jerky Stash.... Wish I couldhave eaten em :<.... I'm staying away from Klamath jerky though LOL
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Klamath and New Reno ones ;) i dont trust junkies
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Klamath and New Reno ones ;) i dont trust junkies
Good point..... Then again, Why would I want to eat anything from new reno? xD
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Good point..... Then again, Why would I want to eat anything from new reno? xD
I could eat something from reno... after all i'm still a fan of Cannibal Corpse ::)
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why not buy out the slaves and pay them like trapper mercs??
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Probably because you can't pay slaves, otherwise they are not slaves.
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Dumb Random Person -> Slave -> Mercenary Recruit.
+1 for tech trees.
-Ulrek-
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Tech Trees are RTS things. Plus, a slave cannot become a merc, because he is a slave, and he will thank you for enslaving him by burstin' in every possible hole.
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Tech Trees are RTS things. Plus, a slave cannot become a merc, because he is a slave, and he will thank you for enslaving him by burstin' in every possible hole.
You could think it this way, that you brainwashed him into a slave-soldier.
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Or little slave girls and boys who are too young to realize that you sold their parents off could be brought up to be loyal mercs ;D Granted that's unrealistic considering the speed of the game and people would cry about a kid becoming a merc in a month or two game time.
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That makes sense. But transforming a Trapper slave into a Big Guns merc doesnt makes sense.
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I definitely like this idea, ever since I got em I have been a huge fan of trapper slaves because of their ability to progress. The notable limitation was that they never got better at combat and of course death. I will definitely set out in search of some followers after the wipe.
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That makes sense. But transforming a Trapper slave into a Big Guns merc doesnt makes sense.
They wouldn't change skin you know... that'd be a bit strange...
-Ulrek-
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Still he is a slave that i found in the desert, fighting geckos and radscorpions with spears, and cannot become a machine of death with a minigun/rocket launcher/Bozar.
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Still he is a slave that i found in the desert, fighting geckos and radscorpions with spears, and cannot become a machine of death with a minigun/rocket launcher/Bozar.
The chosen one was just a tribal guy smashing rockets together and chuckin spears and gettin high off broc flowers n shit.
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Still he is a slave that i found in the desert, fighting geckos and radscorpions with spears, and cannot become a machine of death with a minigun/rocket launcher/Bozar.
You are dumb, not big surprise.
The chosen one was just a tribal guy smashing rockets together and chuckin spears and gettin high off broc flowers n shit.
That was a "special" case, but yeah, it's possible, but again.
They wouldn't change skin you know... that'd be a bit strange...
-Ulrek-
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what he means by skin change is that none of the animations on trapper skin can handle Big guns. so whether the bastard has 300% or -11% they can't even hold the weapon in their hand.
-just figured id clear that up for people who didnt realize what Ulrek meant.
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Yes, thank you mich, i figured everybody would know what a "skin" was, because even newbies and noobs beg GM's for them, seemed pretty universal to me.
-Ulrek-
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The chosen one was just a tribal guy smashing rockets together and chuckin spears and gettin high off broc flowers n shit.
Technically the Vault Dweller was a guy who has never seen a true fight in his life, used to live in a Vault where everythin' you want can be obtained (food, water, entrateniment). And still he became a such warrior that he killed the Lieutenant, The Master, and half of the mutant army. And he entered the Glow and survived. What 'bout that mon?