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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Gunduz on May 25, 2011, 03:20:34 am
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After reading the comment from Lexx in this thread,
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=16287.0 (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=16287.0)
I started thinking about slaves. They really shouldn't stay put and do work for you if there's a chance to escape. You also shouldn't be able to have tons of slaves with weapons with you being the only thing between them and freedom. So I propose a slavemaster merc that you can hire from Vortis or Metzger. In order to leave slaves anywhere, you'd need to leave this guy there too. As long as this merc is there and not dead, your slaves continue being slaves. If not, there's a chance they run away. Same for bases. If there isn't anyone at a base except slaves, they run off. This way, one or two slaves is feasible, but having more slaves requires some kind of investment. Let's just say regular mercs don't care enough about their jobs to stop them.
On the topic of running off, I think that if there are three or more slaves in your party with no other members (i.e. you and three armed slaves), there's a good chance they rebel. Having mercs/other players greatly reduces that chance, and having the slavemaster (we'll just assume he's the epitome of slaving badassery) completely eliminates that chance. The same would go for parties with other players who also have slavers. If the number of slaves is more than 2x the number of non-slaves, rebellion is possible. Anyone having a slavemaster at all would stop it.
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i dont know, i think it would fuck up fun of slaving :) Sometimes in game things do not need to be too realistic.
Also better it would be if you would need just to beat them up from time to time to give them a lesson :D
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You will need Mercs/Companions to get extra slots for Slaves anyway. As the different mercs take up different slots you can then maximise the number of slaves you can have by taking the lower grade of mercs.
All followers will have a chance to run off, not only slaves ... though slaves "running off" should be a little more spectacular (Arming them with awesome weapons might be a bit risky) :D
Then, you should not be able to leave slaves (or mercs) anywhere you don't own anyway - Ie Bases and Private Mines.
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But Mercs get paid for theyr work then why should they run :P?
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But Mercs get paid for theyr work then why should they run :P?
Maybe someone else with pay tham more :P
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But Mercs get paid for theyr work then why should they run :P?
If you keep them well paid you'll have no problems.
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Its work for commission only one pay :P commission to die for u.
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If you keep them well paid you'll have no problems.
you will need to pay your merks many times?
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then it will be bought before battle uh thats gay. More swarm of merc coz they will run if dont use them
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it would be awsome to see them running away in the middle of fight :D
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I dont think they will run its not enough time after buy them :P its probably will be buying in middle of action even
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Well I like the idea of someone needed to guard the slaves but I don't think it should be needed for players who buy them from other players since in a way they save them from the evil slaver who tortured them murdered their friends family... etc. So making it like that as long as that player won't make the slave mine or cause damage to the slave they wont run off.
And slavers should hire a slaver and not a mercenary for the slave keeping. Maybe one from Metzger or Vortist (slavemaster would be a leather jacket or armored dude who would be able to use smallguns and mellee weapons he should be able to level too but each slaver should have one only)
About mercs they should run away if they loose too much fight or the player and the faction where he belongs lost a lot of mercenaries.
Slaves should rebel if their master attacks (all who is with him), mercs should do the same if hit.
And last mercenaries left at places should betray their boss for caps even if they set to auto kill if player talks to them after skill and stat check he/she could bribe them to leave or join up with him/her.
Also Kill on Sight should work with car, base and tent maps only other places the leader should be there all the time giving the orders.
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You will need to pay repeatedly.
You will see them run :) (or rebel for slaves)
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In regards to paying them repeatedly, is that going to be a dialogue option or something easier like X amount of gold disappears from your stash and if you don't have enough the merc leaves?
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also im interested about the amount. Lets say now merc costs 5k, so how much and how often you would need to pay the same merc after wipe for him not to run away ?
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It will be via dialogue, anything else wouldn't really work (it won't be caps used for everyone), as to the amount ... can't remember at the moment. Been about a month since the baby was born - and therefore about a month since I last looked at fonline stuff in any detail.
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Oh no... looks like i'm going to have to pay more for mercenaries when they live then when they die... hmm... *Gets out bundle of TNT and smiles*
*Sigh* But, in all seriousness here, slaves running away if you leave them some where out in the wasteland unwatched is reasonable, i can stand keeping my slaves with me at all times unless they're chained up at my tent or something, but mercenaries costing money over time unless they die will just make them dead weight.
-IF- and i say IF with caps lock firmly held down, you need to pay them over time, you should pay them via the mercenary recruiters, so even if they die, you still have to pay for them until their contract expires, even if they die, or you will be unable to hire any more mercenaries until that full amount is paid, which you will have to pay no matter what happened to them, and if you don't pay it on time, they can leave your employ.
-ANY- thing else will just make them throw away weapons or high price gun racks to show off your collection of P90c's and Super sledge hammers, to be honest i am against both ideas in general, but i am willing to see how they work, so rather then just saying "eet sux" I'm posting this shiny wall of rant. ^,.,^
-Ulrek-
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Mercenaries are gonna be abused and/or worthless next wipe it would seem. Paying them several times and mercenary's chance to randomly run away will make it too troublesome to deal with. "uh-oh, I took a break from fonline and lost my 5 Levelled laser mercs with 200 hp. Fuck this game." or "WHAT THE FUCK MY MERC RUN AWAY IN THE MIDDLE OF FIGHT??!??! WHAT THE POINT I USE MERC IF THEY JUST RUN!?!??!? threads, I see happening.
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Mercenaries are gonna be abused and/or worthless next wipe it would seem. Paying them several times and mercenary's chance to randomly run away will make it too troublesome to deal with. "uh-oh, I took a break from fonline and lost my 5 Levelled laser mercs with 200 hp. Fuck this game." or "WHAT THE FUCK MY MERC RUN AWAY IN THE MIDDLE OF FIGHT??!??! WHAT THE POINT I USE MERC IF THEY JUST RUN!?!??!? threads, I see happening.
The main thing that bugs me is the mercenaries to slave relationship idea, in order to have slaves, you must have mercenaries, in order to have mercenaries you must have caps, so even a 34 health cute slave NPC that does nothing but make your base pretty can go crazy and try and kill you, or just run away since you didn't pay for the mercenaries to guard her, it's realistic in away, but makes the entire system useless for anything but mercenary rushs.
Pretty much unless Solar is forgetting to mention something, the changes that have been mentioned in this thread will make it better to throw away your slaves and mercenaries before they start wanting to be paid or wanting to break free.
-Ulrek-
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I'm quite certain it was mentioned that to get over a certain amount of slaves will require mercs, not to have ANY slaves.
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I'm quite certain it was mentioned that to get over a certain amount of slaves will require mercs, not to have ANY slaves.
As you can see, solar said that having mercenaries lowers the chance that the slaves will run away, so you effectively need mercenaries to keep the slaves from trying to kill you.
You will need Mercs/Companions to get extra slots for Slaves anyway. As the different mercs take up different slots you can then maximise the number of slaves you can have by taking the lower grade of mercs.
All followers will have a chance to run off, not only slaves ... though slaves "running off" should be a little more spectacular (Arming them with awesome weapons might be a bit risky) :D
Then, you should not be able to leave slaves (or mercs) anywhere you don't own anyway - Ie Bases and Private Mines.
-Ulrek-
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That depends on the chance of them running away Ulrek, you can't say it effectively needs mercs if there is only a 5-10% chance it would happen, Until we have that kind of information you shouldn't state that mercs are "needed" to keep slaves.
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i think if u make them feel "comfortable" they wouldnt run away like feed them food and stuff
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That depends on the chance of them running away Ulrek, you can't say it effectively needs mercs if there is only a 5-10% chance it would happen, Until we have that kind of information you shouldn't state that mercs are "needed" to keep slaves.
Even shooting someone with a 95% chance to hit can still miss, and if you spend time leveling up a slave (Which has been said will be an option) then having a 5% chance even that the slave will run off will mean that you could effectively waste 2-6 hours of gaming time if you chose to invest time in to creating a monster out of a whimpy slave, only to have it run away even if you are not using it, unlike your 10mm SMG, which you have to use or otherwise risk it to lose.
Also, as i have said before i am only judging this by the information i have been given, i will apologize if i have greatly misunderstood what Solar has said, but until i am told new information my opinion on this matter will not change, however i also have said that i am willing to see just how this would work, even if i think that with the information i currently have leads me to believe the idea is flawed.
-Ulrek-
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Then, you should not be able to leave slaves (or mercs) anywhere you don't own anyway - Ie Bases and Private Mines.
Will slaves still be reliable to guard faction bases / tents? Will slaves, unarmed or not, be able to run away when they are in your base/tent/mine?
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If anything like this is actually Implemented. I demand the Engineer Profession! I'd rather be stuck with no Gun/armor makeing and Makeing my own followers then to have runaway Slave/Merc.
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Indeed, you have a free allocation of 2 and then extra slot for each other.
The upkeep will be cheaper than them dying and re-hiring, they will also not run "at random". They will run if they feel like they are in danger and they aren't loyal enough.
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If it is a slave trying to run, can they be re captured before they make it out of the map?
P.S. Thanks for all the info.
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Indeed, you have a free allocation of 2 and then extra slot for each other.
The upkeep will be cheaper than them dying and re-hiring, they will also not run "at random". They will run if they feel like they are in danger and they aren't loyal enough.
is there a way to increase loyalty? and will this loyalty be on Slaves aswell? also can we treat slaves a lil better too? I mean. the way we treat them now. now If I was a slave and I was treated like the way players are resricted now. I'd pull something off the first chance I got. So many questions with even thinking this may be implemented. It boggels my mind and makes me forget some of them @_@
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I dislike fallout 3, but this did get me thinking about the explosive collar, perhaps that should be a way to increase their loyalty, Should be rather expensive, Take Explosives expert (Yea lets make it more useful!) Or possibly buying a few from metgzer/vortis? I don't mean this should completely stop them from ever running/trying to kill you but it should help. Or perhaps the higher level a slave reaches the less likely to betray you (I mean you DO care enough to keep him alive long enough to get stronger.
Btw has anyone else realized how sidetracked merc/slave threads get :)
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I dislike fallout 3, but this did get me thinking about the explosive collar, perhaps that should be a way to increase their loyalty, Should be rather expensive, Take Explosives expert (Yea lets make it more useful!) Or possibly buying a few from metgzer/vortis? I don't mean this should completely stop them from ever running/trying to kill you but it should help. Or perhaps the higher level a slave reaches the less likely to betray you (I mean you DO care enough to keep him alive long enough to get stronger.
Btw has anyone else realized how sidetracked merc/slave threads get :)
I agree with what this man Has said here... well Most of it (fallout 3 introduced me to the whole fallout universe, if it werent for that. I'd never get to know all the great friends I've made and hang out with now.)
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is there a way to increase loyalty? and will this loyalty be on Slaves aswell? also can we treat slaves a lil better too?
The loyalty increases differently for each different type.
Mercs like caps, so if you keep them paid on time they will always be at max loyalty. the other two human follower types have thier own systems. For Slaves its keeping them doped up on Jet, for companions ... I originally intended they were to use a food system (to keep those weird farmer types happy), I can't remember changing that, so presume its still the case.
A collar is a decent idea, but there is a lot changning already - so it would have to wait until much later.
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The loyalty increases differently for each different type.
Mercs like caps, so if you keep them paid on time they will always be at max loyalty. the other two human follower types have thier own systems. For Slaves its keeping them doped up on Jet, for companions ... I originally intended they were to use a food system (to keep those weird farmer types happy), I can't remember changing that, so presume its still the case.
A collar is a decent idea, but there is a lot changning already - so it would have to wait until much later.
So when we will have a chance to test them ?
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I have two questions, what is the lowest loyalty rating that a slave or mercenary can get to if you just leave them some place? and will they randomly leave you if you neglect them for a day or two?
I still say these upkeep costs are going to be a massive pain on top of the current cost of being a leader build, but i am curious as to just what is intended here.
-Ulrek-
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So when we will have a chance to test them ?
Soon.
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I heard it alrdy a months ago. Since devs said many details about incoming changes i would like to know when the CBT will be.
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The loyalty increases differently for each different type.
Mercs like caps, so if you keep them paid on time they will always be at max loyalty. the other two human follower types have thier own systems. For Slaves its keeping them doped up on Jet, for companions ... I originally intended they were to use a food system (to keep those weird farmer types happy), I can't remember changing that, so presume its still the case.
A collar is a decent idea, but there is a lot changning already - so it would have to wait until much later.
Welp. Now being a Slaver is ruined for me. Damned Jet. I don't want no Druggys for Slaves, and Just seems like their more likely to just look for more drugs by themselves.
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I heard it alrdy a months ago. Since devs said many details about incoming changes i would like to know when the CBT will be.
Well, exam season hit for our scripters and my son was born - You can imagine how these real life things can slow down progress.
Seems we are all getting back now though, the wheels shall turn again.
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i still think this is BS i thought slaves were already nerfed
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Unless you were expecting uber combat slaves, then not really. You will actually be able to use more slaves than now and without using up your merc allowance too.
I'm looking forward to the first Melee swarms :D
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Yea more PvE than PvP in any battle vs other players... thats great uh
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i didnt mean it like that but they are weak already and now they can just up and leave i am completely against this
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Unlucky, its happening
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Soon.
NOBODY ASK YOU!!!!!
come on we are bored of soons, im still playing the ame and i still like it, wipe and new updates will happen some time but it wont be soon, and i dont care.
About Arathunter, jet is faster to get,you can buy ton of them or simply take it from Robbers and other scum, i have like 200 doses in my tent waiting for be selled.
Perteks i agree i dont want a merc or slave sistem in Fonline, in my point of see that system dont works in any shooter pvp game, its impossible to properly balance the combat, and also the original fallout engine and the CTB let 1 player very unprotected and limited by his AP against a lot of enemyes. if we make more harsh to keep the slaves they will become useless because right now they are hard to use and spend a lot of money (wich isnt a problem now but it will be in the new era)
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NOBODY ASK YOU!!!!!
come on we are bored of soons, im still playing the ame and i still like it, wipe and new updates will happen some time but it wont be soon, and i dont care.
About Arathunter, jet is faster to get,you can buy ton of them or simply take it from Robbers and other scum, i have like 200 doses in my tent waiting for be selled.
Perteks i agree i dont want a merc or slave sistem in Fonline, in my point of see that system dont works in any shooter pvp game, its impossible to properly balance the combat, and also the original fallout engine and the CTB let 1 player very unprotected and limited by his AP against a lot of enemyes. if we make more harsh to keep the slaves they will become useless because right now they are hard to use and spend a lot of money (wich isnt a problem now but it will be in the new era)
A: We need mercenaries just to kill a wall of snipers still.
B: Solar will be removing all farmable sources of jet, so unless it is made craftable you won't have a stockpile of it.
C: You clearly do not even play the same game as the rest of us, either that or you just don't get that mercs might win most fights, but they cost x10 more then you have to pay when you do PvP.
*Edit* Just incase you need proof of B.
Hm, I thought I removed Jet from all encounters, I'll have to check and fix at some point.
-Ulrek-
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B: Solar will be removing all farmable sources of jet, so unless it is made craftable you won't have a stockpile of it.
Well, of course.
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Does the amount of "Melee swarms" mean players would be expected to take some charisma (3,5) and have companion or two? Or "loners" are still going to be fine?
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With what I've read i gather loners should be fine, that coming from the fact i don't see all that many people liking paying upkeep for slaves/mercs which IMO is a great idea and needed. I'll still be a merc/slaver even with the added upkeep just because it's fun to me but I don't think many others will be doing that.