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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Karpov on February 04, 2010, 06:16:13 pm
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Hello, I want to talk about the minigun. I had the disgrace to run over another player in the middle of the wasteland, he wanted to kill me, he held a minigun, but as I was easily 25 hexes away from him I just though that if he shot me it would not hurt that much as if I was right in front of him...it seems i was wrong, he hit me for 140 HPs. Now, that's so wrong. The minigun burst fires 30 rounds at 60000 RPM , ok but at maximum range there is no way that the 30 hit the target, because of the spread of the bullets and because you hold it in your hands! ;D . It happens with the SMG or the Assault Rifle, standing in front of the target a burst is deadly, but far away like 5 hexes it is not much.
But the reason I write this post is to ask if with the minigun this happens everytime or it was just bad luck, because i don't want to post it as a suggestion if it does not.
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If he is skilled with Big Guns, then about 1/3rd of the bullets will have hit you. If this is average or lucky depends on what bullets he was using and what armour you had on
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you either had no armor or some weak one and no toughtness
if he has v high skill he will have 95% hit on you so it doesnt really matter if its 10 or 25 hexes ....
as for spread ... well it might have spread but its not a aoe weapon with no aim...
(here however some different mechanics for minigun and rifle spread could be nice - maybe in future)
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Hello, I want to talk about the minigun. I had the disgrace to run over another player in the middle of the wasteland, he wanted to kill me, he held a minigun, but as I was easily 25 hexes away from him I just though that if he shot me it would not hurt that much as if I was right in front of him...it seems i was wrong, he hit me for 140 HPs. Now, that's so wrong. The minigun burst fires 30 rounds at 60000 RPM , ok but at maximum range there is no way that the 30 hit the target, because of the spread of the bullets and because you hold it in your hands! ;D . It happens with the SMG or the Assault Rifle, standing in front of the target a burst is deadly, but far away like 5 hexes it is not much.
But the reason I write this post is to ask if with the minigun this happens everytime or it was just bad luck, because i don't want to post it as a suggestion if it does not.
i'm play a minigun with 2 perk BRD (bonus range dmg), that mine i will get more +4dmg/1bullet. If u don't have armor i think i can hurt u with 100-160hp. (40/3) x ((8-11)x4) = ????
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If you have no armor, don't be surprised to be butchered: minigun shot 30 bullet, with JHP ammunition, it do *2dmg of 8-11 with 30% DR
So if only 1/3 of bullets hit (and a very skilled Big Gunner gonna thit more), you take easily 120 damage! And if you are little lucky (IRL I mean ;p) you can do more.
But with a good armor, things changes a lot and it's no so much effective, but minigun is ultimate to kill bluesuits ;p.
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Thanks for the replies. I am not surprised because of the power of that weapon, I know it is absolutely deadly, I just didn't know about its range and accuracy. And I think that the only guy that could shoot a weapon like that and be that accurate is Terminator, he's a far more effective killing machine ;D
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But with a good armor, things changes a lot and it's no so much effective, but minigun is ultimate to kill bluesuits ;p.
That's true only for JHP bullets. With AP bullets and 2xBRD you will deal 92 average dmg (276 from point blank!) against BA and 2xToughness.
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That's true only for JHP bullets. With AP bullets and 2xBRD you will deal 92 average dmg (276 from point blank!) against BA and 2xToughness.
its 68 and 3 times that number for point blank ..average damage ofc not maximum possible...
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What I wrote was for Avenger.. my mistake :)
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what i said is for avenger...
its 10 bullets average at point blank and 30 at point blank ...
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Avenger shoots 40 bullets per burst.
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If your skill is high enough you do more around 110/120 with avenger and 2*BRD on a BA 2*Toughnes
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Are you sure that your targets had toughness? Because the average damage against a target without toughness is 116.
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sigh
3 paths - left 1/3 bulelts right 1/3 bulelts
and mid :
mid line - 1/6 bullets
mid -aimed - 1/6 bullets.
.......
mid aimed : every bullet got its separate chance to hit asume 7 bullets ... 7x0.95=6,65
mid line - hits first target on the line if one misses then the bullets move to next target 7 bullets = 5,7
left & right - bulelts try to hit first target on the line , if one miss it move to nexxt target.. 13 bullets = 9,24 per side
EDIT: the numbers i calculated above are the "average" amount of bullets that hit.
sum = 6.65 + 5.7 +2*9.24 = 30.83 bullets for point blank and
6.65+5.7 = 12,35 on range with no other targets in front
now the 12.35 is actually too high value the thing is that 1/6 of 40 is 6.66 and its rounded down ...same goes for side lines 40/3 = 13,3333 i rouned sides down and mid up - but i think there is some deeper process involved .. the 1/6 bullet split is just estimation based on 1000 bullets shot in burst , its no telling what happens with the "missing bullets " - Atom said its not more then 9 bullets for normal minigun so the avenger i guess is 10 ... you can however estimate 12 to be the "cap" if you like...
(the numbers are mathed using this -> a / (1-p) where a = 0.95 for first and p = 0.95 its equation for mathing of sum geometric series /train (no idea how its exactly in english) and then substract the of same *train* but using 0.95^8 or 0.95^14 as "a" accordingly)
now damage damage
8-11 +4 ...using 9 as average base 9+4 = 13 ... AP bullet mod = > 9.75.
substract damage treshold - DT is 12/5 = 7.35
now DR is 50% - 35% ammo mod = 15% DR means = > 7.35*0.85 = 6,24
now multiply it by ammount of bullets 10 or 12 ... 62 or 74 dam ... thats what at least the math say no idea how game rounds up the numbers ... ;p
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In my calculations I assumed 100 CtH which was incorrect. The cap is 13.333333.. - as you said the bullets split equally among the 3 paths. The game rounds that down to 13. On average you will hit with 0.95*13=12,35. Each bullet will deal an average of [(((8+11)/2+4)*0,75)-TRUNC(15/2)]*(1-0,5+0,35)=6,90625 dmg. So the final damage is 12,35*6,90625 = 85,2921... So the average damage is 85.. Anyway AFAIK the game rounds everything down.
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read this http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=1129.0
you will see that its not 13*0.95 but rather - 0.95 +0.95^2 + 0.95^3 +0.95^4 and so on...
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I stand corrected :)
There's a check done for each of the 1/6th bullets that are aimed at the target (this means that ALL of them are checked with your CtH) and there's a check for the 1/6th that are not aimed - until one of them misses... So if a gun fires n bullets per burst, the average number of bullets that hit the target will be:
(n/6)*CtH + ∑CtH^i where the sum is for i = 1 to n/6
But in Atom's post on NMA I found something curios:
When I changed ToHit to constant 100%, the primary target was hit by 334, and the two at it's sides for 333.
No bullets were wasted. So the question is how does the game round numbers?
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down ... but i think i know how the no missing bullet is achived...
take 1/3 for left and 1/3 for right
and rest for mid line
divide it by two, make that hit the primary target
make the rest travel the mid line.
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So the average for Avenger in the mid line is 12,38 (14 max).
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Or, to all intents and purposes "about 1/3rd" :P
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You guys worry too much about that.
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Well it's in my nature :)