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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Reiniat on April 29, 2011, 03:44:10 pm
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First of all some of my toughs
To many people thinks that alts should be elliminated, and people will be only able to create one char, it dont means to "i create mi sg, now i will delete it and make a new EW" it means that you in your faction do certain roll: crafter, SG, BG, etc. and the other guys help you with the things that you can do, it sounds good to me, its the way that my little faction works, and its very realistic.
About alt especialitation, im not against a purely Warlord party being leaded by taxi alts, im only against doubleloging, and i think that fasterloging is too bugged to be considered
But i see a big problem with alting, no one knows who is everyone, you kill some alt in the desert with your alt, then you change of alt and he too, you can meet again and talk and be friends... thats shit
The truly alting problem is related with the Impersonalitation of the players, youre hunted for be pk or thief in NCR, then you change of alt and go into NCR without any problem, EVERYONE has thief alts.
We need to know who is who in the wastes
I have two solutions for this:
1.-You see: AlterEgo, he has 190/190hp, is wielding a Spear and he is a Reiniat alt
funny and easy solution by clicking in See youll be able to know from who is the alt.
Since all your alts are alts to you(smurf) you should be able to choose your "alter name" or it can be the name first char created by you.
it will require a lot of scripts, but believe me, is a very needed thing
2.-This one is more easy, you can choose a name for your char, and all the alts will be named; walle1, walle2, walle3, etc.
its not a very good idea, but is faster to do
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Bad Idea :p like for that if 2 guys play frome one computer then what?
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Horrible idea, and exact opposite of what I think this game should be. If this is supposed be a role playing game, you don't interact with gamers, but with their characters. You should be able to be a friend of one and enemy of other, even if it's a rare case. And I don't want all people to know that the thief and crafter is played by the same person. You just want it like some stupid shooter, where you fight people from clans and what their characters represent doesn't matter. Of course in reality you are friend of your friends, but you want to enforce it.
walle1, walle2? Seriously dude, you only forgot about mandatory clan tags :-X
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Why would you kill your friend on another alt? That doesn't even make sense.
I don't see the problem in keeping your alts secret from one another. Not to mention having "...oh this is so-and-so's alt, FYI" would take all atmosphere out of the game.
And for your second point (2.-): Numbers in names look stupid, and this would take all originality out of usernames.
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Horrible idea, and exact opposite of what I think this game should be. If this is supposed be a role playing game, you don't interact with gamers, but with their characters. You should be able to be a friend of one and enemy of other. And I don't want all people to know that the thief and crafter is played by the same person. You just want it like some stupid shooter, where you fight people from clans and what their character represents doesn't matter. Of course in reality you are friend of your friends, but you want to enforce it.
Uh... this is about what each person likes. I hope this dont becomes a treath of 5 pages were 2 egocentric guys try to be the one with the truth.
So i respect your idea tough i need to fresh some points
I play multiplayer shooter games ALL the time they exists, i remember that old Syphon Filter battles with 16 people in the Psone, also that tournaments of Crash Bash. so maybe youre right... BUT SHOOTERS ARE NOT STUPIDS.
This is about being a false man, "i thief all the guys in NCR, also i have a pk and a anti pk alt" this sounds like shit for me, make more of one alt to act like certain things, looks like a light way of look the life... things goes shitty, then you change your name and everything is fine.
is like those guys that mess the things in the forum, so they create another account and continue, but mods ban him, same way in the game (with no bans).
dont take this personally since we both have a point of see and it will not change, is the normal human behavior
About Wichura, say "what problem?" means nothing
Why would you kill your friend on another alt? That doesn't even make sense.
I don't see the problem in keeping your alts secret from one another. Not to mention having "...oh this is so-and-so's alt, FYI" would take all atmosphere out of the game.
And for your second point (2.-): Numbers in names look stupid, and this would take all originality out of usernames.
you dont understand, but you should think that people interacts between chars and not between real life person. its my error, im not a english speaker
Yes option 2 is a piece of shit, i edit first post.
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How exactly do you plan on having this implemented? By I.P.? Then people will just use a proxy to create new characters so you can't tell who it is.
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How exactly do you plan on having this implemented? By I.P.? Then people will just use a proxy to create new characters so you can't tell who it is.
mmh if there is a way of evade this it doesnt matter. there is a way to evade everything, also devs should ban all the actual cheaters for fast reloging.
things like relogging use IP too, its pretty bugged and no one change that, i normally do Fastrelogings without any change to IP or proxy. im just abusing a bug, not cheating.
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I don't see a problem with having PK and APK character at the same time. I know some people doing it and never had a problem with it. I simply treat characters accordingly to their actions, for me it doesn't matter who control them. It's not "false man" as long as the characters don't interact with each other, for example share one tent. And even if they do I still think it's better than killing someone because "it's alt of that guy from Russia I dont like". Sorry dude, but that's just lame in my book.
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mmh if there is a way of evade this it doesnt matter. there is a way to evade everything, also devs should ban all the actual cheaters for fast reloging.
things like relogging use IP too, its pretty bugged and no one change that, i normally do Fastrelogings without any change to IP or proxy. im just abusing a bug, not cheating.
You make me smile when you state the obvious about re-logging using the I.P. too. JUST LIKE LOGGING! Also you may be getting away with fast-relog due to the fact gms can't always be online AND they can't spend all their time looking for fast re-loggers and this suggestion will just create more shoot on site scenarios which IMO is a bad idea.
OP, Indeed but some people don't really like the aspect of roleplaying and as such want to punish those that do RP their characters.
BP, Fallo....QUAKE YEA!
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OP, Indeed but some people don't really like the aspect of roleplaying and as such want to punish those that do RP their characters.
What the fuck do "these people" in a roleplaying game then? This is like punching the ice cream seller in the face because he sells icecream, punching a firefighter because he rescued you out of your burning house, etc...
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I don't see a problem with having PK and APK character at the same time. I know some people doing it and never had a problem with it. I simply treat characters accordingly to their actions, for me it doesn't matter who control them. It's not "false man" as long as the characters don't interact with each other, for example share one tent. And even if they do I still think it's better than killing someone because "it's alt of that guy from Russia I dont like". Sorry dude, but that's just lame in my book.
we both have diferent opinions and we never change it.
i suggest to see hear the opinion of other people (as far as i know forum are for share opinions, people never changes what they think)
if you make an alt you still being the same person, keep that in count
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if you make an alt you still being the same person, keep that in count
Someone failed to get what an actual roleplaying game is.
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Someone failed to get what an actual roleplaying game is.
Touché!
Best comment i've read in years.
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Someone failed to get what an actual roleplaying game is.
Smurf.... im a RP (and one very deep, i feel this like an insult) but you still being the same guy sitting in front of the monitor, no matter of what char you play, you still taking desitions based on what you really are.
Also i get this realy false, there is only a couple of guys that really do RP, why do you come saying that this dont help to RP? RP is almost dead, i remember you in other post saying that RP can't be here, desilutioning a little boy (in fact hes idea was wrong), so what now?
Or youre RP with other alt now?
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So you want to destroy the last remains of roleplaying and make this a game only for people who collect ten walle1-walle10 alts over a town for evening deathmatch sessions.
::)
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Character's names with numbers look pretty dumb, so does the whole idea. C'mon, Wichura1 teh crafter, Wichura2 teh pwnz0r, Wichura3 teh trololo ?
Game itself encourages player to make alts rather than discourages, or to be precise it doesn't encourage playing with one char only (except your own satisfaction there is no benefits from it). Still having a collection of chars named as above is ... no, hell no.
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That suggestion is total crap as jovanka said. It doesnt bring anything. And I like to give my chars creative and anoying names. Only tent alts are tentalt1-zillion because they are logged only once. :-)
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oh crap, it was the suggestion 2, not the principal, also i
do this with it because it dont count, its still in there for new people to understand what we were talking about, but yes is a completely mistake, even my alts have diferent names, i dont know what i was thinking about.
tough im still feeling good for my first idea, and it wont eliminate RPing, RP will survive to everything... this is fonline
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What about Omniscience?
How would people know whose alt it was?
Listing the alt owner gives information that the character would not have.
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The way I see the alting problem is that the rewards are too great for making specialised characters. When I say 'alting problem' I mean characters that are specifically designed to assist your 'main', and are not intended to be played with.
I don't think everyone should be good at everything, but I think if you accept alts as inevitable and design the system accordingly you will minimise a lot of the problems they cause. I realise crafting is going to be reworked upon wipe, but I'd say it serves as the best example. The most popular professions require a substantial investment in both science and repair. But your intended build does not incorporate science and repair. What do you do? You don't compromise, you alt.
I understand that's the point in a roleplay game - if you choose a certain path, you miss out on others. It sounds great in theory - player choices mean something. But in practise, they don't. At least not in an MMO. You just get alts.
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(http://i54.tinypic.com/mkdgsz.jpg)
Sorry, but I had to :D
Seriously, if I saw something like that:
You see: AlterEgo, he has 190/190hp, is wielding a Spear and he is a Reiniat alt
I would probably laugh my ass off. My suggestion is to add variations of this, for example:
You see: Armorer3, he has 90/90hp, is wielding a Spear and he is a humble crafter alt
You see: Leader12, he has 190/190hp, is wielding a Rocket Launcher and he is Kilgore's alt on 2912. proxy, carrying 5 super mutants (serial numbers 27382-27386)with bazookas with him, usually just waiting with them on worldmap to carry out an artillery strike.
You see: Dirty_Biatch129, she has 190/190hp, is wielding a Sniper Rifle and she is just another powerbuild of XYZ
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The way I see the alting problem is that the rewards are too great for making specialised characters. When I say 'alting problem' I mean characters that are specifically designed to assist your 'main', and are not intended to be played with.
I don't think everyone should be good at everything, but I think if you accept alts as inevitable and design the system accordingly you will minimise a lot of the problems they cause. I realise crafting is going to be reworked upon wipe, but I'd say it serves as the best example. The most popular professions require a substantial investment in both science and repair. But your intended build does not incorporate science and repair. What do you do? You don't compromise, you alt.
I understand that's the point in a roleplay game - if you choose a certain path, you miss out on others. It sounds great in theory - player choices mean something. But in practise, they don't. At least not in an MMO. You just get alts.
Badger I find myself agreeing with you again, the problem with a certainl element of players within this game is that they simply want to have ALL of the cake and eat it when simply this SHOULD NOT be the case.
Alting in any MMO is generally (trust me I used to be a long time player of Face of Mankind) a very bad thing and is used only to abuse the system in place. Player accounts need to be created and perhaps a P2P implemented (a tiny amount though.)
There needs to regulation and order.
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the problem with a certainl element of players within this game is that they simply want to have ALL of the cake and eat it when simply this SHOULD NOT be the case.
The current system explained in cake terms:
I want a piece of chocolate cake and a piece of vanilla cake, but the people at the party won't let me have a piece of both. They will only let me combine chocolate and vanilla to make a disgusting mess.
Or I can take a piece of vanilla from this party, a piece of chocolate from another party, and eat them both. I'm happy because I get what I want. Two pieces of delicious cake.
The obvious consequences are that I start overturning tables and getting aggressive because what the hell kind of party only gives out one slice of cake, do you know who I am you should thank me for gracing my presence at your damn party and eating your goddamn cake.
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The current system explained in cake terms:
I want a piece of chocolate cake and a piece of vanilla cake, but the people at the party won't let me have a piece of both. They will only let me combine chocolate and vanilla to make a disgusting mess.
Or I can take a piece of vanilla from this party, a piece of chocolate from another party, and eat them both. I'm happy because I get what I want. Two pieces of delicious cake.
The obvious consequences are that I start overturning tables and getting aggressive because what the hell kind of party only gives out one slice of cake, do you know who I am you should thank me for gracing my presence at your damn party and eating your goddamn cake.
Exactly,
People will see the banning of Alts at first as a bad and negative thing however in my opinion it will just allow you to concentrate higher on your own character development and would also increase cooperative interaction between other players and thus bring the FOnline community closer together.
At the moment no-one really needs to rely on anyone else as they can more or less do everything for themselves (except base buying) which in a game/System like FOnline just promotes the needless PK'ing thats driving new players away.
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i was thinking into that, but since only some players will like it, i do this.
In my very personal opinion (see the first post) all the players should be able to use only one player, especialized of course, and then comes cooperative mode, those things that you cant do, can be made by other players. (the way that FPS like Battlefield works).
but i know no one will like that.
and all this alt suggestion is because i believe that people is false. but unfortunately other people dont think that, i dont know why i think in a diferent way, but this is what i feel, and the reason for show to everyone the names of my alts, i think its good to kill the alts of a guy who kills you with his pwnzor alt.
And i look like traition a guy who plays with apk and pk at the same time, no mater RP.
But you dont think that, wich i see stranger but i accept it
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i was thinking into that, but since only some players will like it, i do this.
In my very personal opinion (see the first post) all the players should be able to use only one player, especialized of course, and then comes cooperative mode, those things that you cant do, can be made by other players. (the way that FPS like Battlefield works).
but i know no one will like that.
and all this alt suggestion is because i believe that people is false. but unfortunately other people dont think that, i dont know why i think in a diferent way, but this is what i feel, and the reason for show to everyone the names of my alts, i think its good to kill the alts of a guy who kills you with his pwnzor alt.
And i look like traition a guy who plays with apk and pk at the same time, no mater RP.
But you dont think that, wich i see stranger but i accept it
No mate I agree with you, no Alts or be limited to the number of characters on a person account.
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So no experimenting with lots of builds/RP concepts?
I don't mean SanFranBarter1, ModocSniper5, etc.
I mean a guy named Sidewinder who wanders all over the wastes and got all the Outdoors perks even though they are a suboptimal combat build- and he gives rides to friends and fellow gang members as well as delivering stuff between bases and shared tents, he has a cousin named OneHandBand who is an Armorer1/Doc1/SG1/Demo1 (one-hander) that hangs around Klamath which has "all he needs in this world", they have a Doc3 friend named Gammadion who is very charismatic and is handy with a minigun- he hangs around near Vault City, etc.
This is a Wasteland Friends Network- they cross reinforce and have RP backgrounds and personalities.
There is no "Main" for them to support.
Also, without content RP is a bit lacking.
(I solved that for myself.)
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I mean a guy named Sidewinder who wanders all over the wastes and got all the Outdoors perks even though they are a suboptimal combat build- and he gives rides to friends and fellow gang members as well as delivering stuff between bases and shared tents, he has a cousin named OneHandBand who is an Armorer1/Doc1/SG1/Demo1 (one-hander) that hangs around Klamath which has "all he needs in this world", they have a Doc3 friend named Gammadion who is very charismatic and is handy with a minigun- he hangs around near Vault City, etc.
This is a Wasteland Friends Network- they cross reinforce and have RP backgrounds and personalities.
There is no "Main" for them to support.
Cute, but impossible. As long as you are limited in developing your char above 21st level, 4 professions per char etc. there will be zilions of alts here. Not to mention about famous PvP-apes, sometimes counted in dozens per one pr0 player.
Why should anyone bother finding specified type of character (gunsmith, armorer, doctor, salesman, whatever), if it's simple to add another two-legged "tool" to collection?
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I think Swinglinered meant different characters played by one person. And I agree. Forcing people to play one character would only hurt the last remains of RP not help it. And it would mean less experimenting and less fun. You would have to choose between PvP fun and RP fun and you would be stuck with the choice forever (noone is going to level up all over again and again). Seriously, I doubt many people really want to play armor crafter only. And cheaters would find the way around it anyway. Because they always do.
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That's true, but right now I can barely know anyone playing this way. It's more "effective" to gather all your different characters in one place (base, tent) and use them to supply "main" character. That's not the way I'd love to play, but well, adapt or die. Pity.
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hey guys whats problem with numbers ? what do you have against my Johnny Ns ? ;D ;D
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Seriously, I doubt many people really want to play armor crafter only. And cheaters would find the way around it anyway. Because they always do.
Well there you go, that's our problem. If you want to craft armour, you have to devote your character to crafting armour. Your professions are so demanding as to define your character.
The only way to make such a system work is to considerably dilute the demands. I know it sounds like a massive watering down of the RPG system , but it's that or alting. I'd rather every single character has a profession and is able to produce gear instead of just the dedicated base crafters. Even if it means more characters being a Jack of all Trades.
I would suggest that we minimise or completely remove the skill point investment/stat requirements for both professions and crafting. I know, it seems ridiculous that there's all these skills that will never get used - but we have a system that uses them, and the consequence is that everybody just makes alts. Much better to control what people can build by scarcity of blueprints.
Even with stuff like mining - make a mining alt so you can carry as much ore as possible. Don't use your main, because he's carrying decent gear and he doesn't have a sledgehammer with him, nor can he carry much, nor does he have the CH to bring mining slaves. So, you use your mining alt. When he's done you use your crafter alt with respectable science to turn that ore into something workable. Great. (I'm prepared to admit I simply despise the mining system)
I also realise a crafting rework is on the cards, so these issues may have been completely addressed.
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Well there you go, that's our problem. If you want to craft armour, you have to devote your character to crafting armour. Your professions are so demanding as to define your character.
The only way to make such a system work is to considerably dilute the demands. I know it sounds like a massive watering down of the RPG system , but it's that or alting. I'd rather every single character has a profession and is able to produce gear instead of just the dedicated base crafters. Even if it means more characters being a Jack of all Trades.........
Thats a nice suggestion.
I think players should has only 2 chars, a "Warlord", and a "Everything Else".
players need very combat especialized built for fight, but a crafter can be many other things, like thief, slaver or barter. I design a built for a Crafter-Slaver-Thief and one Crafter-Thief-Barter some time ago in stats the look good but i never lvled one.
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Well there you go, that's our problem. If you want to craft armour, you have to devote your character to crafting armour. Your professions are so demanding as to define your character.
The only way to make such a system work is to considerably dilute the demands. I know it sounds like a massive watering down of the RPG system , but it's that or alting. I'd rather every single character has a profession and is able to produce gear instead of just the dedicated base crafters. Even if it means more characters being a Jack of all Trades.
I would suggest that we minimise or completely remove the skill point investment/stat requirements for both professions and crafting. I know, it seems ridiculous that there's all these skills that will never get used - but we have a system that uses them, and the consequence is that everybody just makes alts. Much better to control what people can build by scarcity of blueprints.
Even with stuff like mining - make a mining alt so you can carry as much ore as possible. Don't use your main, because he's carrying decent gear and he doesn't have a sledgehammer with him, nor can he carry much, nor does he have the CH to bring mining slaves. So, you use your mining alt. When he's done you use your crafter alt with respectable science to turn that ore into something workable. Great. (I'm prepared to admit I simply despise the mining system)
I also realise a crafting rework is on the cards, so these issues may have been completely addressed.
Too arbitrary.
Developing professions should actually define a character- because they take a lot of time and effort to learn.
Eliminating requirements makes almost every character a combat character.
I prefer a simulaton bias to a "game" bias.
Blueprints are a good idea, depending on implementation. Do they magically dissappear after use?
Are they unshareable?
Either thing would be lame.
If they don't dissappear and are shareable (aside from maybe having to pay a trainer to teach the procedure accompanying the blueprint), they would be just another grind item. Requiring training to use each blueprint would be just another hoop to jump through.
I have no problem with that.
I would bring back crafting books as well.
Perhaps crafting books and blueprints could wear out from use over time.
I would also make crafting more difficult, with items requiring different professions cooperating to make subcomponents.
BTW there are plenty of "Level 0" items that allow anyone to be a crafter.
Even a combat character can spare a few points here and there.
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Too arbitrary.
Developing professions should actually define a character- because they take a lot of time and effort to learn.
Eliminating requirements makes almost every character a combat character.
Well that's what we have now - a system where professions completely define your character. It's impossible to make people play characters they don't want to play (can you blame them?), and they don't want their build to be completely oriented around making armour. So they just make alts. Nearly every character is a combat character as it is.
The more complicated and demanding you make crafting, the more people are going to make alts for it. If you make the crafting compromises smaller, a lot more people will be prepared to craft with their main.
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Developing professions should actually define a character- because they take a lot of time and effort to learn.
I dont think they should define your character but i think they should take a lot of time and effort to learn. currently you can make valid crafter alt in less than one afternoon.