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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Jay on April 29, 2011, 12:44:47 am
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So I meet two happy russians:
23:36:03 • You were critically hit in the groin for 22 hit points, knocked out and knocked down.
23:36:04 • You were critically hit in the groin for 19 hit points, knocked out and knocked down.
23:36:07 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 80 hit points, knocked out and had your armor bypassed.
23:36:09 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 23 hit points and were killed.
23:39:49 • You were critically hit in the groin for 20 hit points, knocked out and knocked down.
23:39:51 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 68 hit points, knocked out and had your armor bypassed.
23:39:53 • Screenshot saved.
23:39:54 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 26 hit points, knocked down and blinded.
23:50:07 • You were critically hit in the groin for 18 hit points, knocked out, knocked down and had your armor bypassed.
23:55:08 • You were critically hit in the groin for 10 hit points, knocked out and knocked down.
23:55:13 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 17 hit points and knocked down.
23:55:14 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 44 hit points, knocked out, blinded and had your armor bypassed.
23:59:08 • You were critically hit in the groin for 4 hit points, knocked out and had your armor bypassed.
23:59:13 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 38 hit points and knocked down.
23:59:15 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 34 hit points, knocked down and blinded.
23:59:18 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 35 hit points and blinded.
23:59:29 • You were critically hit in the head for 27 hit points, knocked out and had your armor bypassed.
23:59:32 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 60 hit points and were killed.
KO every 1st hit? I play a crippler and I don't get that many KO's.
Bad luck or WTF? ...
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holy shit man that is really unlucky.
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Do you have 1 EN? If not, then it's very very very bad your real life luck + very very good thier real life luck.
Edit:
Just noticed, it's different situations in one post, then it's ok, nothing special, just few criticals in a row. Prolly your EN isn't 10, that's why crit effects working on you so good.
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It is 4. My LK is 10. But than again so many KO's. I was seriously thinking are they cheating or what. They did crit with a fist, mauser and a rock (yes a rock) ;]
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Oh 4 EN, your anti-crit rolls are too low, so you'll be knocked down/out very often.
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please tell me you met them near SF and they were unarmed - using only hth / power fist?
I got same.. I have 6 luck and 4 endurance and got 8 hits from them (each hit was crit, each was knockdown and knockout.. crits wo't hurt me much - around 8-10 dmg.. but last crit took 110 dmg.....) I was wearing ca.. and they have no power fists.. only later i saw that they bought PF for next victims.. ( when they came to sf city)...
Aditionally - on hit from that 8 was aimed hth attack at my chars leg.. obviously char was knocked down... and leg was cripled.. rest was aimed atacks on eyes / groin.. each knockdown + knockout
Just after that i have disscussed it with one kind GM but he has explained that i was unlucky...
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Its not only because of low endurance. Its because of overpowered critical hits. Even with 10 endurance and stonewall u get knockouts. Its pain in ass... But what can i say. Snipers are for noobs, true mans or sadomasochists use big guns.
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snipers overpowered?.. I don't thinks so.. Sniper vs big gunner - i think chances for wining are same and much additional things will decide on a final fight result.
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snipers overpowered?.. I don't thinks so.. Sniper vs big gunner - i think chances for wining are same and much additional things will decide on a final fight result.
uhhh... You mean totally in the sniper's favor? because it cannot possibly be the same, seeing the sniper has a 90% chance of giving a insta kill (Which knockouts count as insta kills, we all know it! that harsh -20-30 ap!) As well cripple to de arm which means we cant even use an alternative weapon, however snipers can take out a pistol.... They can cripple our eyes making it impossible to shoot (again basically an insta kill unless you have doc skill but they can easily do it AGAIN without cooldown).
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Snipers are for noobs, true mans or sadomasochists use big guns.
It's because there is no ultimate Sniper/Energy weapon doing ~90 damage every burst with formidable range.
As well as this, needing high range and critical chance pushes their HP as low as 150-170 range, which is much less compared to 200-250hps which big gun characters can have. Not talking about base damage in armor done by single shots from Sniper and Laser rifle, are as low as 10-20 when not bypassing armor.
However, more it's bad, because single shot characters rarely value raw weapon damage (except for Energy Weapons, which might be on par with comparable Big Gun builds - ie laser vs rocket and plasma vs avenger ), this makes finesse easily accessable to exceptionaly long range characters, nearly guaranting critical shot in any limb if they come with 10 luck and two shots ( which is not that big problem with jet, even when they pay one extra AP per shot ).
Yeah it'd be nice if non-finesse snipers would not be doing 10-20 damage to armors, but say 40-60, and EW doing even little more, while seing much less secondary effects, and those being more predictable and costly to achieve.
I don't agree with buffing BG however, if anything Minigun should be brought above LSW, which should be toned a little down ( in versiability ).
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I play a crippler. I myself do not get so many KOs. I do cripple arms, get KDs. But this is... well, it's something strange. 100% KOs at 1st hit, and many more.
I just felt like it was a cheat, seriously, you don't get that many KOs normally. Well, bad luck on me ;p
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I played crippler 1 wipe ago, I knocked out other people in legs very often, but it was on good critical roll, because it followed with huge damage also. May be you can't KO people, because it's hard when you're shooting arms...? ^_^ Try may be head it's better for KO. ;p
Cripplers are fun, when you're in jacket and deagle crippling hand of that metal guy with avenger and he walks to you unarmed and then you can even take his weapon if he was close to you, the only bad thing is when 5345873465 his friends are after next corner and you see few rockers flying in your direction almost instantly after you picked up his mini.
Also EN matters much, I have 10 EN and no Stonewall perk, because of 1 ST, when they're shooting my eyes and dealing 100-150+ damage with no other effects very often except for bypasses. Also with 10 EN instakills are very rare for you, anyway, if your character build supposed to be hit by others, you better pick 10 EN, of couse it'll be excellent to get 6 ST somehow too and pick Stonewall, and after-wipe all other anti-crit perks +anti-crit trait, so only plasma rifle / .223 pistol eye bypass will stop you by raw damage, if you have less than 10 EN, then you better have 10 PE and something that shoots on ~50 hexes, and you better hide behind your 10 EN friends and then simply shoot those who're trying to pick up mini of your 10 EN friends.
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Its not only because of low endurance. Its because of overpowered critical hits. Even with 10 endurance and stonewall u get knockouts. Its pain in ass... But what can i say. Snipers are for noobs, true mans or sadomasochists use big guns.
more like: snipers are for true strategists, big gun users are for people who just like to mash keys
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more like: snipers are for true strategists, big gun users are for people who just like to mash keys
U made me LOL. Sniper was for good players only when there was no autoaim mode and scoped interface. Now sniper is avaiable for every single idiot. Just click-> KO, click-> CRIPPLE, click-> 4xDMG, click and so on... Sniper strategist buahahahaha ;d Play on 50th hex, open space, beware of small rooms! Peak of strategy ;D
Autoaim and overpowered crits changed sniper into noobish character. Even if you personally suck, critical hits table help u and does 99% of work ;D You just click... not two time like in the past but only ONCE :) Sniper is lame.
GO, GO, GO sniper lovers!
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you must be realy skilled in dying against snipers but snipers are not overpowered. Do you have sniper ? It seems not ...
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U made me LOL. Sniper was for good players only when there was no autoaim mode and scoped interface. Now sniper is avaiable for every single idiot. Just click-> KO, click-> CRIPPLE, click-> 4xDMG, click and so on... Sniper strategist buahahahaha ;d Play on 50th hex, open space, beware of small rooms! Peak of strategy ;D
Autoaim and overpowered crits changed sniper into noobish character. Even if you personally suck, critical hits table help u and does 99% of work ;D You just click... not two time like in the past but only ONCE :) Sniper is lame.
GO, GO, GO sniper lovers!
all that applies to your button masher BG
U made me LOL
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you must be realy skilled in dying against snipers but snipers are not overpowered. Do you have sniper ? It seems not ...
Do you ask me? Just in this season i got 2 energy and 2 small guns snipers. Is it enough for you? If not i have to tell u that in my whole FOnline2238 carrier i had around 10 of them. For me its not much(who would level more lame snipers? :) ) but lot enough to claim what i wrote in my first post here.
all that applies to your button masher BG
That means u have no idea how it looks like from BG side.
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you cant have unkillable character as you wish always can be killed by some character thats all
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Snipers are for noobs, true mans or sadomasochists use big guns.
Strange... I always thought that Big Guns are for noobs. You know... strategy: just fucking try go close enemy, try ignoring any damage and try fire twice.
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Strange... I always thought that Big Guns are for noobs. You know... strategy: just fucking go close enemy, ignoring any damage and fire twice.
Yeah there was the time(1-2 season) when BG was ubernoobish but role has changed(5 season).
3-4 season was quite balanced.
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I mean... seens like people think tha Big Guns is a "focking tank invecible".
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Nowadays there is nothing like tank against critical hits. Stonewall? There is nothing like that, there is StoneLOL. Waste of perk. No armor help you, no hit points help you, no perks help you. U can tank against ncr crafters and their single fast shooters.
Ok im tired of whining about BG. All i can do is wait for incoming season and prey hehe. But still think that crits are overpowered and first post in here is just one of the proofs. Thats all from me ;)
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IMO, first post cannot be used as a proof.
I can make a log making BG looks overpowered. It's easy. Well, who will know if is true?
Post a video, showing the "unfair sniper's power" and I can change my mind.
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it was not me who made that topic and i dont care about your mind nor your small gun ::)
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That means u have no idea how it looks like from BG side.
Can use same logic on you, means you have no idea how it looks from sniper side
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it was not me who made that topic and i dont care about your mind nor your small gun ::)
Whatever.
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very nice to read topic about me and my friend, thnx a lot
let me say that the knockouts in the unarmed does more than pass shooting of any firearm
often five times the minimum
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well its obvious that author gets so many ko/kd cause of low endurance and there is nothing special about that.
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i chalange you to make a 10 END sniper with no drugs and also 10 LK and 10 PE and have 210 SG skill
anti sniper sniper^
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i chalange you to make a 10 END sniper with no drugs and also 10 LK and 10 PE and have 210 SG skill
anti sniper sniper^
Without Cigs and Nuka?
One screwed-up build for you ;D
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1622/onescrewedupofabuild.jpg) (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/onescrewedupofabuild.jpg/)
(I personally wouldn't play char like this)
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Without Cigs and Nuka?
One screwed-up build for you ;D
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1622/onescrewedupofabuild.jpg) (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/onescrewedupofabuild.jpg/)
(I personally wouldn't play char like this)
you only need 5 st for SG sniper
EDIT:
nvm, noticed you have stonewall
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and shot in eyes with only 71 percents...
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If someone gets all the time ultr-high crits and instant kills vs you, never misses, never gets a poor critical... is it still bad luck? Because I feel its a bit strange.
Tell me you can mount 20 instant kills in a row...
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crits will change after wipe
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If someone gets all the time ultr-high crits and instant kills vs you, never misses, never gets a poor critical... is it still bad luck? Because I feel its a bit strange.
Tell me you can mount 20 instant kills in a row...
Good luck from the person who shoots + the person being shot most likely has 4(or less) EN and low LK
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14:44:07 • You were critically hit in the left arm for 13 hit points and had your weapon dropped.
14:44:09 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 42 hit points and blinded.
14:44:09 • You were critically hit in the head for 27 hit points and knocked down.
14:44:13 • You were critically hit in the head for 25 hit points and knocked down.
14:44:14 • You were critically hit in the head for 18 hit points and knocked down.
14:44:22 • You heal the damaged eye.
14:44:22 • You have gained 50 experience points.
14:44:25 • You were hit in the head for 8 hit points.
14:44:25 • You were critically hit in the head for 29 hit points and knocked out.
14:44:29 • You were hit in the head for 8 hit points.
14:44:29 • What TF was hit for 40 hit points.
14:44:29 • Mr.Res. was hit for 57 hit points.
14:44:29 • You were hit for 96 hit points and were killed
me lvl 21 no drugs universal Bgunner, metals armor, lsw
enemy 2 bluesits with smg and hunting rifle..
seriously what the fuck ?
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You can't win just, if you trust you armor and weapon.
You need know that you win them. Then you can call yourself strong.
Like i got good unarmed fist battle with Good Man.. good example for this.
I lost first battle, because i said 'lol you die in seconds you are weak etc..' And he beaten me easily..
Next round was more interesting and i got more better dmg and nice criticals and beaten him at end (High injury myself)
All because of i said 'I will win this time, no matter what it takes'
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Johny, my old teamate, i dont want to start flame about snipers and bursters but i have few points.
1) They were 2, that means that even they have inferior weapons, they had cca. double firepower than you (more AP, more kind of attacks, ..).
2) Obviously, they worked as a team with their own tactics. One tried to disarm you (weapon drop, blind, knockdown..), second player (SMG) purpose was to finish you. It ilustrates, that inferior weapons, no armors, but well projected chars and good tactic could be in general superiour than more firepower char.
3) There is a myth that BG powerbuilds (even well projected), have to dominate battlefield at all time.
You forget, that every powerbuilds sacrifice something in exchange of superiority in some area.
Big gunners (in general) powerbuilds have their enourmous firepower, but they are vulnerable to critical hits to their arms, because they use two handed weapons. This is their weakness and enemies who knows this, will always focus on weakness of every enemy - this is common knowledge of every tank commander ;)
So why did not you invest some SP into SG skill, so you can defend yourself by single handed secondary weapon?
4) I always told our team: Dont heal, ATTACK! (or run away :) ). Time spend to healing (using doc) is time when you lost your "turn" and enemy gets "one turn for free" to attack you.
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14:44:07 • You were critically hit in the left arm for 13 hit points and had your weapon dropped.
14:44:09 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 42 hit points and blinded.
14:44:09 • You were critically hit in the head for 27 hit points and knocked down.
14:44:13 • You were critically hit in the head for 25 hit points and knocked down.
14:44:14 • You were critically hit in the head for 18 hit points and knocked down.
14:44:22 • You heal the damaged eye.
14:44:22 • You have gained 50 experience points.
14:44:25 • You were hit in the head for 8 hit points.
14:44:25 • You were critically hit in the head for 29 hit points and knocked out.
14:44:29 • You were hit in the head for 8 hit points.
14:44:29 • What TF was hit for 40 hit points.
14:44:29 • Mr.Res. was hit for 57 hit points.
14:44:29 • You were hit for 96 hit points and were killed
me lvl 21 no drugs universal Bgunner, metals armor, lsw
enemy 2 bluesits with smg and hunting rifle..
seriously what the fuck ?
21:50:15 • XXXX was hit in the head for 13 hit points.
21:50:17 • XXXX was hit in the head for 15 hit points.
21:50:20 • XXXX was hit in the head for 22 hit points.
21:50:20 • XXXX was hit in the head for 33 hit points.
21:50:21 • XXXX was hit in the head for 12 hit points.
21:50:22 • XXXX was hit for 19 hit points.
21:50:22 • XXXX was critically hit in the head for 72 hit points and was killed.
Target was enemy sniper in tc. (one of the shooters didn't have autoaim on lol)
Crit god works in mysterious ways.
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Maybe next time take some SSs with you or try to use them. Stims make life better:) I think something is wrong about you build, only 40-50 hits into blu?
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Everyone know that crits after wipe will be nerfed so just chillout and try to avoid every possible sniper ;)
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..bla bla bla bla bla..
Yes you are right ehm doctor of theoretical PvP.
Maybe next time take some SSs with you or try to use them. Stims make life better:) I think something is wrong about you build, only 40-50 hits into blu?
i didn't have chance to use sstims, only thing i managed to do was to heal eye, then i went sleep again
man nope i had no chance to shoot, this 40 and 57 dmg was from my mate's rocketlauncher
System is wrong. why should 10 mm pistol have same chance to broke your arm in CA as 223 pistol into bluesuit?
it should work like higgger tier weapon=> better crit table, higger tier armor=> lower crit table
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Just play sniper from time to time and don't whine :)
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Just play sniper from time to time and don't whine :)
not everyone wants to play snipah and wish for bursters and snipers to be balanced not just instas all the time.....(i hate snipers)
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System is wrong. why should 10 mm pistol have same chance to broke your arm in CA as 223 pistol into bluesuit?
it should work like higgger tier weapon=> better crit table, higger tier armor=> lower crit table
I can agree with that. And I even hate randomness, would like to see limbs having health so that you'd need to do some real damage to cripple.
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14:44:09 • You were critically hit in the eyes for 42 hit points and blinded.
14:44:09 • You were critically hit in the head for 27 hit points and knocked down.
Well, gentlemen... this is what I call a Super-Fast-Sniper. O______O
Or maybe a Two-Hand-Sniper... :o
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Everyone know that crits after wipe will be nerfed so just chillout and try to avoid every possible sniper ;)
This will kill knives throwing guys:amen Gray Rain,rest in peace :'(
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Snipers are NOT that powerfull that they need to be toned down. I would rather go against a sniper than a big gunner. I would know, I am a sniper ;D
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Unless you're skilled enough to get a good crit you can't really do any damage or effect that is not random. You can still play better no matter what kind of damage or crippling you do, this is something that many people don't realize.
And yeah that condition is sarcasm.
I wonder if it'd be possible to get a fonline without single random call. It's matter of phylosophy whether randomness even exists, but ingame it does not do much good beside putting players to unpredictable situations - which still could be part of tactics/AI even without random chances.
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Snipers are NOT that powerfull that they need to be toned down. I would rather go against a sniper than a big gunner. I would know, I am a sniper ;D
crits being toned down will be from the new anti-crit perks and modifiers associated with armour. However this does not mean everything else will stay the same, pretty sure solar has stated that sniper rifle damage will receive increase to balance this (by 50% i think it was). Let us hope that we reach a good weapons balance post wipe.
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not everyone wants to play snipah and wish for bursters and snipers to be balanced not just instas all the time.....(i hate snipers)
You don't need to play " sniper " to score insane criticals just make crippler go reno with 14 , 10 mm pistol(223 pistol if not crippler for maximum pain) maybe CLJ and your in business or maybe a lazor crit based build don't care what you do with the build if it involves lazor-critical it makes guys in CA and avenger look like soft girls , and when we talk about criticals in general each 1.5 attack cripples your arm and almost each shot drops your weapon, damn avenger and change to fucking secondary rocket launcher so that you could drop that too , not to mention the hour long knockouts or when you get knocked out while your knocked out( how the fuck is that even possible ) or that the randomness sometimes you get hit like dozen times and you still stand but sometimes it takes 2 shots and you can kiss my ass and donate stuff. Like the only real weakness for snipers if they get unlucky with critical shots if they KO , cripples any body part , knocks you down first shot it doesn't matter if they have low hp and they are fragile in narrow spaces not to mention ridicoulos damage on bypasses. blah blah blah
I play with sniper enough to know critical hits are broken as much as they can be , so you all want critical hits to be nerfed not snipers , i could write all day long about critical hits and i would find like a million reasons why criticals should be nerfed , fucking up gameplay just like militia does right now. btw i know this gonna change so someone will call this flaming i call this feedback kekekeke ;D
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Little tip, eyeshots are changed to headshots when not facing the opposite direction ( that means if you wouldn't face the same direction when you'd turn 3 times in one direction ).
This is useless vs cripplers as arms and legs are still the same, but makes lasers completly useless as their critical chance is usualy low and their noncritical damage is complete joke.
There are some countermeasures and damage will go up. Though armors are going to be balanced only by 5%ish changes usualy, it's still better than nothing.
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Unless you're skilled enough to get a good crit you can't really do any damage or effect that is not random.
When I started playing I was surprised by the fact that snipers did so low damage. If I got it right, the problem is that snipers are useless when they don't score chained criticals, and when they do, they are overpowered. Well I'd say nerf criticals (I read that's going to happen after the next wipe, good) and make sure they do more damage to balance it out.
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Nerf chance greatly. But give shooting to eyes (At any time) at least 50-75 hitpoint damage every shot with say, a sniper rifle.
We see ALOT less critical bullshits, (but still occassionaly that perfect shot. They are snipers afterall). and more guerrilla warfare, and shot-picking, like snipers are supposed to be. Adding more tactic, and less randomness.
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IMO the problem is AP penalties are too big and they stack so if you are knocked down once you are dead in 4/5 cases, 250 HP, psycho and armor almost doesn't matter. My propositions are:
1. Remove stacking of additional knockout/knockdown AP penalties if the person is knocked out/down already.
2. Create to hit penalties for aiming lying targets from distance - yes, they don't move but they are much smaller after all. For example it could be -2 SP for every hex of distance if target is lying, so it would affect long range snipers the most. They would have a problem shooting someone in head over and over from 50 hex. You could create long range and short range sniper builds.
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Nerf chance greatly. But give shooting to eyes (At any time) at least 50-75 hitpoint damage every shot with say, a sniper rifle.
We see ALOT less critical bullshits, (but still occassionaly that perfect shot. They are snipers afterall). and more guerrilla warfare, and shot-picking, like snipers are supposed to be. Adding more tactic, and less randomness.
You're wrong
Nerf chance
is not equal to
Adding less randomness
Critical chance is less relevant than crit effect. Even if there was only 1% critical chance, but that'd be instagib, it'd be random and people would hate it.
Also by default aimed shot has no effect unless it is critical, that is a good place to begin.
Whether the solution would be non-random factor ( like giving bodyparts their own health ) or still random ( like currently doing random criticals with random effect ) it need to exists to give combat some depth.
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Maybe you should look up the word "less". meaning: "Not as much". The less critical hits there are, the less random crap that happens due to those critical hits. It's in direct correlation.
Critical chance is less relevant than crit effect.
Why? If there isn't enough chance to get crits then there would be no crit effects. if there was no crit effect then there would be no point to crit chance.
Even if there was only 1% critical chance, but that'd be instagib, it'd be random and people would hate it.
I don't understand this: instagib? Besides 1% chance would hardly be noticeable enough for people to hate it.
Whether the solution would be non-random factor ( like giving bodyparts their own health ) or still random ( like currently doing random criticals with random effect ) it need to exists to give combat some depth.
Obviously, but it is clear we need less random, more things we can rely on. So I would think bodypart health wouldn't be such a bad idea. But before this we would need to make up a new doctor system perhaps, and an item for repairing these limbs.
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Why? If there isn't enough chance to get crits then there would be no crit effects. if there was no crit effect then there would be no point to crit chance.
Currently average eyeshot critical chance might be like 75% ( some have more some less, obviously )
this might seem like a lot, but only 40% (perked, hinted by Solar) of those criticals bypass armor.
Those which do not bypass do usualy 15-30 damage, or something quite low.
That means the scary criticals all whine about are in fact like 30% or perhaps less or more depending on build.
Does it sound like way too much? I don't know.
Anyway if you had same critical chance, 100% chance to bypass, but very low modifiers (like 1.5x in average), you would do on every critical from 40-75 damage perhaps, and 10-15 on non-criticals.
I don't really intent to do much maths, but let's say that makes damage average in 60 per good shot.
For current system if we would take average bypassing critical in 150ish range, average damage per shot would be more or less the same.
This would be for Laser Rifle on some Combat Armor. So as you can see if every critical bypassed armor but did not boost damage that much, weapon would do good damage, and would not feel random ( though non-criticals would feel that way as failures ), but ofcourse is not ideal because it makes armor irrelevant.
But as you can see with higher chances, stuff is much less random.
I don't understand this: instagib? Besides 1% chance would hardly be noticeable enough for people to hate it.
Something like 300 or more damage.