fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Eternauta on April 24, 2011, 09:09:29 pm
-
Yeah, like that. No, it's not cause I want to nerf PvP or any shit like that. But I think it would be interesting to leave behind that North/South dichotomy, and it would be nice to see all kinds of players and not just pwnz0rs in Northern cities.
Imo, the best candidates would be:
-Klamath: an unprotected town, with a protected mine next to it? The mine is a good reason to make Klamath protected, maybe by Trappers. In a non-so-gameplay level, Klamath is a small settlement so I think it could be outside the interest of gangs because of that.
-The Den: one could say it's already protected by the Slavers, who need to keep some safety in this harsh place, or their business would be harmed.
Why not Modoc? same as Klamath, small settlement which might not attrack gangs' attention, but it's relatively close to Vault City, which is already protected.
Why not Redding? Redding was a city that was not independent enough, and was under the competence of outside forces already in Fallout 2.
Why not Broken Hills? mostly because of its position in the worldmap.
Why not Gecko? Vault City is in the same area and is already protected.
Why not New Reno? would make sense imo but it has been said that devs already have plans for NR.
Of course, by making another town proteted, it would be nice to have a spawn point near it when we create a new character.
-
Make 'em all guarded! Failing that, yeah, Klamath would be the best bet. It has a lot of very good quests for new players - the pelt farming rewards are perfect.
-
What you have to understand is, even if I don't like unguarded towns, making them guarded won't attract more players there, imo :-\
-
Den is already gaurded... in east side by the Metzger's slavers... not that it helps with such weakass gaurds.
-
What you have to understand is, even if I don't like unguarded towns, making them guarded won't attract more players there, imo :-\
I think it'd be an interesting pre-wipe experiment. Why do you think it wouldn't?
-
Nah, no protected towns in North, Vault City is enough already. Guarded towns bring more bad than good, I would rather make all town unprotected.
-
All towns unprotected would be awesome, but it requires a different player base, not our lolo-proxy-merc-leaders, lolo-gridcampwnzors, etc.
-
Yes for Klamath, would be nice to have an NCR-like city in that part of the "world". Also, could you please add a poll? It's better than just replying.
-
nope, towns are fine already. Making them guarded would just lower people amount in there and we have vault city its quite close to all other northern towns so i dont see a problem.
-
Better support player driven towns instead.
-
Better support player driven towns instead.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp317/SSonic2006/CaptainAmericaFacepalm.jpg)
-
Better support player driven towns instead.
hell no. If town is protected, it applies same for everyone, on player protected town there are some tough guys who decide who needs protection and who dont without any much reasoning, sorry bro but you are more wrong even than author of the topic.
-
That's why avv said to support these towns. They need some love. The system needs a change. Players need to be encouraged to actually protect the town and visitors. Maybe even forced to.
But yes. Avv's suggestion is not really the one that can be done.
-
hell no. If town is protected, it applies same for everyone, on player protected town there are some tough guys who decide who needs protection and who dont without any much reasoning, sorry bro but you are more wrong even than author of the topic.
That's why the mechanics should support the player driven towns where players treat their visitors nicely so that the more visitors, the more money. If some town's controllers treated their visitors like nazis, there wouldn't be many visitors so they wouldn't get much caps. At the moment most tc towns are ghost towns where some faction member visits every now and then to loot the tc box.
-
Better support player driven towns instead.
That is the idea of TC, is it not? A town protected by players.
As an abstract concept, "Player driven town" > "protected town"
In reality --> "do this or we ruin WWP project!", and as already said, lolo proxy merc leaders, lolo gridcampwnzors...
Also, could you please add a poll? It's better than just replying.
It's not. I don't believe in polls for this kind of stuff :P Let's get serious, it's the dev's game and they shouldn't implement naked female dancers with rocket launchers just because a poll shows 9999999 teens agree and 10 serious players disagree. The idea is to suggest something and back it up with arguments (if any), if they like it, they will implement, if they don't, those votes can be sticked up our asses.
-
Hopefully with something akin to battlegrounds next era, TC will recieve a major overhaul. Eliminate the attrition style warfare/beat the timer and you will effectively get rid of a large amount of alts. Hopefully it will include a sytem where the faction who controls it will be forced to have an international community. City defense and policing efforts will be evenly distributed throughout the faction with each defensive "shift", overlapping the other groups sleep time. If the group gets eliminated, then control shifts to the victors. Others have also suggested some kind of "defense grid", comprised of the squares surrounding the town. Folks could send out scout teams to ambush incoming attackers and weaken their overall assault. This is where the "multiple encounters in the same damned square might actually be useful".
TC should be extremely difficult and successful defense of a city should bring great rewards. Afterall, we are talking about controlling a town/s on par with the NCR.
-
Why not New Reno?
Impossible.
-
TC should be extremely difficult and successful defense of a city should bring great rewards. Afterall, we are talking about controlling a town/s on par with the NCR.
But the rewards shouldn't be given out of succesful military operation but from upholding a working society and getting along with the visitors.
-
Yeah, like that. No, it's not cause I want to nerf PvP or any shit like that. But I think it would be interesting to leave behind that North/South dichotomy, and it would be nice to see all kinds of players and not just pwnz0rs in Northern cities.
Imo, the best candidates would be:
-Klamath: an unprotected town, with a protected mine next to it? The mine is a good reason to make Klamath protected, maybe by Trappers. In a non-so-gameplay level, Klamath is a small settlement so I think it could be outside the interest of gangs because of that.
Mine protectors aren`t much protection against guys in CAs with LSWs, who`re in mood to fuck shit up. Otherwise, Klamath is a good choice for a newb haven, if it had quests to level up, opportunities to earn money, resources (protected mine) and easily accesable workbench, along with some traders and combined with insta-kill sniper guards, such as NCR rangers in Shady Sands.
For other resources, players might need to venture out to unguarded cities in the `hood, where the predators might find their blue pajama prey.
-
I agree with you Avv. Successfully defending the city means the attackers have been repelled and the town is again at peace and able to do business.
Also food for thought. Whatever faction takes a town could enlist the help of a major faction be it NCR, Vault City, or New Reno. Each ally could bring with it different rewards and help instead of just generic militia unless they plan to do away with that completely.
-
But the rewards shouldn't be given out of succesful military operation but from upholding a working society and getting along with the visitors.
Yeah, but who defines that? Is it number of people who visit the town? How long they spend there? How much they spend? Would the gang be punished for any bloodshed? WHAT IF THEY SHOT BLUESUIT SPIES AND HAD NO CHOICE?
How would you even be able to successfully differentiate visitors from gang alts specifically design to boost the 'Town Rating' or whatever you'd call it.
-
I think that gangs fight in tc for fun of the fight, not for some shitty reward and like 9/10 gangs are not interested will anyone trade in their controlled town or not.
-
But the rewards shouldn't be given out of succesful military operation but from upholding a working society and getting along with the visitors.
. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~., Are you serious ?
. . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
. . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
. . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
. . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,}
. . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.}
. . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:”. . . ./
. . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./
. . . . . . . /__.(. . .“~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./
. . . . . . /(_. . ”~,_. . . ..“~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/
. . . .. .{.._$;_. . .”=,_. . . .“-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~”; /. .. .}
. . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .”=-._. . .“;,,./`. . /” . . . ./. .. ../
. . . .. . .\`~,. . ..“~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../
. . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-”
. . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\
. . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__
,,_. . . . . }.>-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-,
. .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==``
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _\. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`
-
What you have to understand is, even if I don't like unguarded towns, making them guarded won't attract more players there, imo :-\
I dont know Izual, I personally think it WOULD attract more players as the area would be safer.
-
I dont know Izual, I personally think it WOULD attract more players as the area would be safer.
Yeah, I think the town in the North that has the most passing trade is Vault City. Every other town people preview, run in, do their business, and get the fuck out. There might be dozens of loners up north, but they're all too afraid to be exposed. Which is completely understandable.
I think that gangs fight in tc for fun of the fight, not for some shitty reward and like 9/10 gangs are not interested will anyone trade in their controlled town or not.
And this is my point - why should it be in towns at all then? The fact that NPCs/Quests/Shops are there are of minimal to no interest to the controlling gangs, so why can't we separate them entirely? I believe that most gangs aren't interested in making a town functional and popular, so the only real consequence of keeping TC in towns is that there are half a dozen locations populated by ingame features that nobody wants to use.
-
Yeah, I think the town in the North that has the most passing trade is Vault City. Every other town people preview, run in, do their business, and get the fuck out. There might be dozens of loners up north, but they're all too afraid to be exposed. Which is completely understandable.
nah man you are wrong in here, sometimes when chilling in wasteland i become part of like 8 people group who just talk in modoc or new reno for example. What you said works for the very newbies only who are really afraid to lose their only 10mm pistol and leather jackets, others just dont give a shit :>
-
> You are now aware that over 50% of the active playebase are PvP gamers.
> You are now aware that the NCR is a ghost town.
> You are now aware that every unguarded town is a good PvP arena.
> You are now aware that there are at least 3 guarded towns nobody visits, ever.
> You are now aware that New Reno is the only place this side of Hinkley people can have unrestricted, casual PvP in.
Yeah, let's totally take something from the vast majority of the players and give it to the 5 or 10 Mad Max wannabes who didn't ragequit yet and will do so during the next 3 or 4 months. This is going to, like, totally bring the new life into the server. I mean, The Hub and the NCR are so overcrowded that we most certainly need another safe location to give all those people some living space.
... so yeah, Eternauta, your idea is abso-effin-lutely ridiculous.
-
So we bring that "Mad Max wannabe" bullshit again? Let me guess what's next.
(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5435/madmaxwannabe.jpg)
-
You seriously didn't expect that, especially from this particular person?
-
Yeah, but who defines that? Is it number of people who visit the town? How long they spend there? How much they spend? Would the gang be punished for any bloodshed? WHAT IF THEY SHOT BLUESUIT SPIES AND HAD NO CHOICE?
How would you even be able to successfully differentiate visitors from gang alts specifically design to boost the 'Town Rating' or whatever you'd call it.
Example:
Town's doctor sells biomed gel. Part of the money from the bought gel goes to tc box. So basically all npc services that players buy give part of the caps in tc box. If the town is full of asshole pks, nobody will come there to buy anything but they surely will visit those towns that do protect their visitors.
So tc only unlocks the town, but to have profit players have to uphold it.
-
Avv, not saying your idea is bad (I actually like it) but, have you noticed the fact that Klamath has no merchants or profession trainers at all?
-
It's a matter of a few hours to add a few merchants, profession trainees and other kind of NPC's to the Klamath. Moreover, this city could become a protected one, which could be captured and this is at least interesting to test such featuret .
-
Example:
Town's doctor sells biomed gel. Part of the money from the bought gel goes to tc box. So basically all npc services that players buy give part of the caps in tc box. If the town is full of asshole pks, nobody will come there to buy anything but they surely will visit those towns that do protect their visitors.
So tc only unlocks the town, but to have profit players have to uphold it.
you can wait for people to trade and kill after, to get even bigger reward...
and if you get just part of the trade, i think its better to kill even before trade, to take full reward in caps not part of it.
And last but not least, as said before things like that gives fun for like 1% servers population, others just want fight for gang name and lulz.
-
Town's doctor sells biomed gel. Part of the money from the bought gel goes to tc box. So basically all npc services that players buy give part of the caps in tc box. If the town is full of asshole pks, nobody will come there to buy anything but they surely will visit those towns that do protect their visitors.
Good idea, but would need to be changed some. Even if it is unguarded, if there is a need to buy the particular item, then people will try to risk going into an unguarded town to get it. Just like getting caps in unguarded towns when the merchant restocks its caps.
If your suggestion makes it so that if there is more demand for an item, then the merchant will restock that item quicker, then it would work, because if it is protected, then more people will come in regularly.
However, with bio-med gel, you can only have dialogue-accessed, but unlimited buying, so that wouldn't work out. It would only work if the merchant has a limited number until they restock, and restocking time depends on demand.
Edit: Oh, and if the item is available in at least two towns so there can be competition, assuming the same gang doesn't own both.
-
In the second session, an ammount of stuff being traded in a faction guarded town was transfered to Town Control box. So what we were doing? Just killing people so we can grab same ammount of stuff + extra. The result of such actions could be one of following:
- the player came back to have his revenge and got killed again - more stuff,
- the player joined some organised force to fight with us - more fun, fight and stuff,
- the player went to another town where he could be killed anyway (no matter whether it is guarded or not)
It will be always better to just kill such player than not kill him. And if they make trading/using services more profitable, you can just use alts and exploit the shit out of it.
Btw: if you were able to buy an item in one or two specific player-guarded locations, it will be always more effective to just camp the place and make other teams unable to obtain the item than letting them buy it for a little reward in the locker. And as they can use new alts in attempts of buying the item, you'd have to kill them all.
-
Nah, no protected towns in North, Vault City is enough already. Guarded towns bring more bad than good, I would rather make all town unprotected.
Cannot agree more on that, guarded towns only brings out more trolls and immature players abusing guarded area, better promote player controlled towns like Redding.
-
you can wait for people to trade and kill after, to get even bigger reward...
and if you get just part of the trade, i think its better to kill even before trade, to take full reward in caps not part of it.
In the end players wouldn't come there anymore if the town's controllers were such a robbers.
And last but not least, as said before things like that gives fun for like 1% servers population, others just want fight for gang name and lulz.
Actually mushroom, leader of rogues has said it'd be cool to uphold for example a casino. Nice Boat, leader of BBS suggested npc factions ruled by gms. TTTLA members wanted to uphold and build all kinds of settlements.
-
Actually mushroom, leader of rogues has said it'd be cool to uphold for example a casino.
MY GOD, that's how we do it! That's how we have ingame gambling! Gang-run casinos!
Alright, bear with me on this. Let's say you and the rest of your hypothetical knuckle-dragging gang take over a town that contains a Casino. You dump, say, $10000 into the Casino as a 'reserve' - the money that gets paid out when people win. People come in and gamble, and the odds are always in the Casino's favour. The odd person might make a lot of money, but most people will take a loss - which is why casinos are so lucrative. It's as much about the financial gains as being a town that can provide alternative entertainment.
The casino becomes popular, people have fun, the town has something interesting to offer. Everyone wins. Think like in the Theme Park/Rollercoaster Tycoon games.
-
You have to give players some reason why to play. So small chance, that they will won? Not enough.
But not only casino, brahmin ranch, slave-arena fighting, box, bars with fistfights and whores, farms, trade hub etc. Each could be supported by player faction, each could have some influence over global economy and NPC factions (players and their wares and towns supporting eg. NCR for rep bonus and some goods, guards etc. from NCR)
The best way how to make players to spend this time in bars, casinos, with whores etc. is to give them some bonus, something that character is "having a fun". There could be exp percentile bonus gain (eg. -10 for not having fun to 10 for having fun, spending time with dices, whores, looking at box etc.), but something like that is needed for 21 lvl. players.
-
You seriously didn't expect that, especially from this particular person?
What an informative and relevant post... as usual Surf, it's nice seeing you making a valid point in a discussion. If you took the time to play the game instead of trying to look smart in the forums, you could've noticed that generally speaking the only people who remain on this server are the PvP crowd, and due to a number of TC-related issues their ranks are shrinking too. Why? Because there's nothing more left to do here. Adding another protected town is not going to change that - adding quests and RPG-related mechanics could. The game is pretty much empty, it sorely lacks any meaningful content aside from faction wars. As far as I'm concerned, you could place 100 guards in every friggin' city including Necropolis, but that'd basically kill the only long-term source of joy this game currently offers. Instead of barely 200 players, you'd be left with 50. But then again I bet that wouldn't have an impact on hunting radscorpions or making "closed events", so why would you care?
So we bring that "Mad Max wannabe" bullshit again? Let me guess what's next.
It's not bullshit. A Mad Max wannabe is not a player who wants to PvE or roleplay (I respect both PvE players and roleplayers) - it's a joybreaker and a crybaby. It's a person hating the fact that there are people who enjoy going PEW PEW at each other out there. The fact that going PEW PEW is the only reasonable and immediately available source of fun here at the moment doesn't change anything - a Mad Max wannabe wants to remove "meaningless PvP" because "it's not Fallout". Yeah, you could remove that, but you seem to be forgetting the fact that there's nothing you could put there instead. And that leads me to the point I'm trying to make here - fine, let's say we make Klamath or whatever a protected city, what are you going to do to make people go there? Put in some awesome NPCs or trading possibilities? But hey, there's a lot of towns down south that sorely lack content - and even when it's introduced anywhere people no longer give a damn after a week or so because the devs are incapable of supplying enough to keep them entertained that way. How about a few delicious quests? Who's gonna care, it's 30 real world minutes of march away from the NCR. To rephrase your suggestion, it's more or less like "hey, I've got an awesome idea, let's put another ghost town on the map, which city do you want to make uninteresting and devoid of any players guys?" Yeah, you could do that and make a few people enjoy pretending they're talking with the NPCs or sitting behind a table, but inevitably, as soon as the taste of novelty is no longer there they're going to get bored and leave or return to standing around in the NCR or their tent/hunting radscorpions/not logging in because there's no point. That's what you gain for implementing your suggestion. What do you lose? You make the PvP monkeys angry, because they lose a good map to play on. More people leave. Basically, you're suggesting taking another step in the act of servercide - how could any sane person who doesn't hate this server support that is beyond my understanding.
-
You have to give players some reason why to play. So small chance, that they will won? Not enough.
Not necessarily a small chance, but the odds can't be in the favour of the player else the casino won't be able to support itself.
I agree that other player-run (or at least sponsored) features would be nice, but I chose casinos because the locations already exist, and they don't strike me as something that complicated to script (that said, I view scripting as some kind of magical power). I would like an incentive for players to spend time in bars, too. Anything that encourages players to see each other as potential allies as well as enemies. Players cooperating is just as valuable as-oh no Nice boat is here
-
You have to read whole post:)
I said, that the small chance, that the player will won is not enought to make players play and lose moneys in casino. I proposed for status of each char, how is he relaxed. That could be solved like addiction with "you are not having enough fun, go and relax somewhere" with more or less severe disadvantages (eg. less exp. gain etc.)
-
Also, in response to the THE ENTIRE SERVER WILL DIE block of text - would the same thing happen if all towns were guarded, but there was a PvP zone that corresponded to every town on the map? So there's more PvP locations than ever before, more evenly spread across the map?
I don't think it would. The only thing that would happen is the reduction in loot from people getting caught in the Crossfire. More PvP locations in a wider area means a gang can't control as many - meaning smaller gangs get a chance to compete. More people would engage in TC/PvP. I think that's a good thing.
Edit: OH GOD MORE IDEAS HOLD ONTO YOUR BUTTS
These external PvP locations are not only designed for combat, but also have a designated feature/resource. Capturing a location near Reno? Your gang now owns a Casino/Jet Production. Down toward the Boneyard? Small Gun Ammo production. All the way at Gecko? Energy cells. The Den? Your gang sells slaves. So on and so forth. Does that seem like an improvement on the system we have now?
-
Sounds like a very nice ideas, Badger. Could you make a suggestion about it in the suggestion board?
-
These external PvP locations are not only designed for combat, but also have a designated feature/resource. Capturing a location near Reno? Your gang now owns a Casino/Jet Production. Down toward the Boneyard? Small Gun Ammo production. All the way at Gecko? Energy cells. The Den? Your gang sells slaves. So on and so forth. Does that seem like an improvement on the system we have now?
Waaaaitt.... a minute...... Isn't this Domination in a nutshell??? :o
-
Also, in response to the THE ENTIRE SERVER WILL DIE block of text - would the same thing happen if all towns were guarded, but there was a PvP zone that corresponded to every town on the map? So there's more PvP locations than ever before, more evenly spread across the map?
I don't think it would. The only thing that would happen is the reduction in loot from people getting caught in the Crossfire. More PvP locations in a wider area means a gang can't control as many - meaning smaller gangs get a chance to compete. More people would engage in TC/PvP. I think that's a good thing.
Edit: OH GOD MORE IDEAS HOLD ONTO YOUR BUTTS
These external PvP locations are not only designed for combat, but also have a designated feature/resource. Capturing a location near Reno? Your gang now owns a Casino/Jet Production. Down toward the Boneyard? Small Gun Ammo production. All the way at Gecko? Energy cells. The Den? Your gang sells slaves. So on and so forth. Does that seem like an improvement on the system we have now?
Actually, that's a good idea but seriously now - do you actually realise how hard it is to make a good PvP map? It takes a crapload of work, and basically it all comes down to prioritizing the most important stuff. I mean if you think in abstract terms, there already is a division between the "PvP arena" part of the map and the "guarded stuff" part. Adding new guarded locations is not going to give you more content, it's going to mean that the devs will have to work on making the arenas instead of adding quests, dungeons, NPCs and other good stuff (which really should be the priority here). Besides, if you think about it, there's already too many locations for 200 people, so adding new ones would mean that the gameworld would become even less saturated with players which would further aggravate the "nobody plays here anymore" effect (I mean FFS, just look at the NCR and recall how it looked like 12 months ago). I'd rather have 6 locations in total with 3 being safe and 3 being controllabe with a crapload of people and stuff happening all the time than 16 neat, but empty places where you have to wait for 30 minutes to even meet a single player character.
I'd suggest reducing the gameworld to something like this: http://i51.tinypic.com/6854t4.jpg
... and going with 3 or 4 "real" cities (Reno, BH, VC, NCR) with 3 or 4 corresponding PvP arenas working as you suggested. The remaining locations would be mostly devoid of anything that could make the players want to stay there for prolonged periods of time and would mostly be used for questing, professions (more or less how Navarro and BOS are now) and maybe some cheap trading. That'd make the game much more lively, but sadly I don't think the devs would even consider adjusting the size of the game to the playerbase.
-
Yay, flame! At last some entertainment.
I would love to see
player driven towns
but this never happen in longer period, because
It will be always better to just kill such player than not kill him.
Also don't forget about anti-PK-anti-anti-PK-anti-anti-blahblah crap, comfortable excuse to killing n00bz for teh lulz, no? "zOMFG u are outlaw!!!!11" and so on. Like killing for teh lulz would ever needs any explanation :>
And if they make trading/using services more profitable, you can just use alts and exploit the shit out of it.
Almost every feature can be abused by making an alt, yet no-one seems to be interested in getting rid of them. And I'm tired of suggesting same ideas over and over.
Who would crawl for an hours of real time to some gods-forgotten shithole far in the north anyway?
-
Nice_Boat: I don't understand your point. Because let's see: you say PVP IS THE ONLY FUCKING THING TO DO IN 2238 so if we make another town protected, then there would be less space for PvP. Okay, that makes sense (which means it's your opinion and it is clear). Problem is, you at the same time say we need more quests and RP-related stuff (which I agree with), but you fail to understand that people can't enter a town to complete a quest if the PVP PWNZORS WHO ARE THE ONLY ONES LEFT IN THIS GAME are pew pewing. So, that harms the activity "quests". And look at Redding. I know you are saying the devs should encourage RP ("somehow"), while Redding WWP project came from players. But anyway my point is, WWP project has met a lot of obstacles because the PVP PWNZORS WHO ARE THE ONLY ONES LEFT IN THIS GAME came and started pew pewing (and proxy-leading mercs, etc). So the activity "RP" is also harmed.
I forgot to answer to another thing you said in your first reply here. So you think I'll ragequit in a few months because of the PvP pwnzors? Cool story bro. Don't forget to admit you were wrong when you still see me here trying to ruin your game with my "Mad Max wannabe babycry" in the future ;)
I wonder why you still play this game if PVP PEW PEWING IS THE ONLY FUCKING THING TO DO IN 2238. Btw, I enjoy PvP as well :D
...casinos...
Please, I want 2238 to be 2238, not isometric Fallout New Vegas (aka "lulz casino everywhere!" as some guy said on NMA).
-
(and proxy-leading mercs, etc).
Enough with this instigating... It's like everybody hit by a rocket from those mercs (sarcasm) are trying to get into trans-thread brawls.
-
Do you really think we are gonna stop mentioning that childish behaviour just because Michael the merc lover tells us to? But anyway, I trust the devs and the new merc leading system they are going to implement, and that is why it was just a very small and unimportant part of my post, and not necessarily a reason to go off topic.
-
Do you really think we are gonna stop mentioning that childish behaviour just because Michael the merc lover tells us to?
nice, personal attacks... :P At least you prove my point. ;)
But anyway, I trust the devs and the new merc leading system they are going to implement, and that is why it was just a very small and unimportant part of my post, and not necessarily a reason to go off topic.
Then you shouldn't have added it. ::)
-
make ghost farm protected
-
As far as I can see, people say "guarded town == no pvp in there" ... which I find wrong. Just because there are guards, it doesn't mean there can't be any pvp. I'll guess people don't do any real pvp in there, because of two reasons:
1. Reinforcements in some towns are too heavy and
2. Chance to lose items is a lot higher, because you have to pwn NPC guards before you can pwn bluesuits.
At 1: Towns like Klamath or Modoc would have far less reinforcements than the NCR or Adytum, so it wouldn't be a that big deal. If you can take out the guards in the map, you might as well be able to take out the reinforcement troops.
At 2: Well, yeah.
In any case, just because a town has guards, it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to fight in there. If you can take it up with the NPCs, fine... Hell, nobody (Devs + Game Masters) would care, if now a big playergroup enters the NCR and starts taking out the guards and "takes over" the town in some kind of way. As long as no cheats / guard ai abuse (like blocking in doors) is done, nothing speaks against it. If we would want to have no players fight in these locations, we would simply set them to "no pvp" and you couldn't activate combat anymore.
-
I would love to see but this never happen in longer period, because kilgorequote
No it wont. If the controllers always kill their visitors, they stop having visitors. Let's say tc box doesn't give anything at all if nobody comes to buy the services from npcs. There are people who are willing to uphold peaceful societies and don't have urges to shoot players on sight even if it was more profitable. The mechanics have to support that. There has to be a place ingame where town rules can be written and seen clearly, who are wanted and who are known citizens.
What comes to abusing the services with alts, it would be impossible because it's all about caps. The gang would only have a small discount when using the services of their own town.
Let's say you can hire a repairman npc for 10k caps and 20tools for 1 week. Repair costs 100caps from which 20 goes in the tc box. So visitors have to pay 100 caps but members only 80.
-
well if for example gang decides to pvp in modoc, they need to kill guards first, once people see that there are dead guards in town - they wont enter simply. So i think yes, it does mean that guarded town means no pvp.
-
No it wont. If the controllers always kill their visitors, they stop having visitors. Let's say tc box doesn't give anything at all if nobody comes to buy the services from npcs. There are people who are willing to uphold peaceful societies and don't have urges to shoot players on sight even if it was more profitable. The mechanics have to support that. There has to be a place ingame where town rules can be written and seen clearly, who are wanted and who are known citizens.
It was like that and it didn't work. And towns won't stop having visitors as long as there are specific NPCs for specific things like profession trainers, quests or other services.
If you can take it up with the NPCs, fine... Hell, nobody (Devs + Game Masters) would care, if now a big playergroup enters the NCR and starts taking out the guards and "takes over" the town in some kind of way. As long as no cheats / guard ai abuse (like blocking in doors) is done, nothing speaks against it.
It's not possible in your game, sir.
-
In any case, just because a town has guards, it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to fight in there. If you can take it up with the NPCs, fine... Hell, nobody (Devs + Game Masters) would care, if now a big playergroup enters the NCR and starts taking out the guards and "takes over" the town in some kind of way. As long as no cheats / guard ai abuse (like blocking in doors) is done, nothing speaks against it. If we would want to have no players fight in these locations, we would simply set them to "no pvp" and you couldn't activate combat anymore.
Mmmh, you should explain that to the GM who spawned invincible 9999hp NPCs when the North Alliance, Red Dot, DMC, and Dark Alliance attacked NCR together without any abuse. It was really lame.
-
It's not possible in your game, sir.
Only because of the named issues, sir. Do we write sir now at the end of the sentences, sir?
Mmmh, you should explain that to the GM who spawned invincible 9999hp NPCs when the North Alliance, Red Dot, DMC, and Dark Alliance attacked NCR together without any abuse. It was really lame.
Send an e-mail to the overseer then, with screenshots, logs, etc. and he will look into the issue.
-
Only because of the named issues, sir. Do we write sir now at the end of the sentences, sir?
Send an e-mail to the overseer then, with screenshots, logs, etc. and he will look into the issue.
there was very big rage topics in forum about that. But it was like a year ago from now, so there was no overseer at that time even :D
-
I know you are saying the devs should encourage RP ("somehow"), while Redding WWP project came from players. But anyway my point is, WWP project has met a lot of obstacles because the PVP PWNZORS WHO ARE THE ONLY ONES LEFT IN THIS GAME came and started pew pewing (and proxy-leading mercs, etc). So the activity "RP" is also harmed.
I forgot to answer to another thing you said in your first reply here. So you think I'll ragequit in a few months because of the PvP pwnzors? Cool story bro. Don't forget to admit you were wrong when you still see me here trying to ruin your game with my "Mad Max wannabe babycry" in the future ;)
I wonder why you still play this game if PVP PEW PEWING IS THE ONLY FUCKING THING TO DO IN 2238. Btw, I enjoy PvP as well :D
You remind me myself from like year ago. Same lines about PvP-apes and shit, same rage, pure fury and holy enthusiasm to make game world a better place to live in.
Since I've already walked this path, I can predict you're gonna be disappointed sooner or later too, as I was. Player-organised events, activities other than pwn n00bz, fancy-shmancy roleplay sessions, giving a simple but cool quest in Hub for newcomers in our humble gang, to make them feel like in real Fallout game, yeah yeah. And?
It all started to consume too much time to prepare some short fun - craft valuable prizes (gathering and crawling), set a nice looking place with glowing bottles (crawling again), crawl around the world to get all invited visitors or wait till they crawl to you. There were days when I was spending like few hours of real time to prepare 15 minutes "event". Pity there is no more polish subforum, I could prove my words with certain threads - pictures would be enough I guess. Support of GM? Sure, I'd like to thank Samira again for helping us with Fight Club many times - respawning killed by accident fighters was very useful and saved us from waiting them to crawl back from respawn point. And that's it, GM is more like MP (Military Police) here. Something went terribly wrong.
Anyway I surrendered and don't give a crap anymore. Pwnz0ring n00bz is much easier and doesn't require so many preparations or time. Just grab a gun and kill pixels. Go go crazy rocketjumpers! :>
Please, I want 2238 to be 2238, not isometric Fallout New Vegas (aka "lulz casino everywhere!" as some guy said on NMA).
We have trains here (that's what I've heard, never used any) - "lulz trainz everywhere, it's Transport Tycoon!!11". Cars - "zOMFG carmageddon!111". Big guns - "onoz, quake pwnz0rs!!1". Dude, stop. Casinos were in F1 (Gizmo's one), F2 (New Reno's), there is many gambling machines all around. What's wrong with them? Right, there is no use for Gambling skill so far, but I'm patient and wait for some nice implementation. I've never had Gambling alt yet.
Do you really think we are gonna stop mentioning that childish behaviour just because Michael the merc lover tells us to? But anyway, I trust the devs and the new merc leading system they are going to implement, and that is why it was just a very small and unimportant part of my post, and not necessarily a reason to go off topic.
New merc system would cause more 9/10 CH alts added to bases to keep security mercs "on" them. Dunno about PvP fights, more proxies maybe? :>
-
You remind me myself from like year ago. Same lines about PvP-apes and shit, same rage, pure fury and holy enthusiasm to make game world a better place to live in.
(...)
(didn't copy your whole text not because of sarcasm or anything but because I don't want this comment to be a huge wall of text in which only a small part is mine)
You might be right, we'll have to see how my opinions change in the future. I admit it has changed a bit. Anyway, I kinda liked that part of the comment, felt there was a nice attitute in it :) just wanted to say that.
edit: btw I was not raging. I used the capital letters to sarcastically quote Nice_Boat's opinions.
:>We have trains here (that's what I've heard, never used any) - "lulz trainz everywhere, it's Transport Tycoon!!11". Cars - "zOMFG carmageddon!111". Big guns - "onoz, quake pwnz0rs!!1". Dude, stop. Casinos were in F1 (Gizmo's one), F2 (New Reno's), there is many gambling machines all around. What's wrong with them? Right, there is no use for Gambling skill so far, but I'm patient and wait for some nice implementation. I've never had Gambling alt yet.
No, no, don't get me wrong. I am not against working casinos and gabling for 2238 in general. I just don't want that to become a very important aspect of the game (which is imo the case in NV, where gambling one of the things that identifies it the most). See, trains and cars are there in 2238 but they don't "define" the game.
New merc system would cause more 9/10 CH alts added to bases to keep security mercs "on" them. Dunno about PvP fights, more proxies maybe? :>
Well, what to say,I just certainly hope we never see that again :S
-
Well, what to say,I just certainly hope we never see that again :S
Well we won't if all followers won't attack without being told to. Auto attack mercs seem a bit too useful, and I love followers in general.
-
It was like that and it didn't work
Care to be more specific? I know nothing of it but if it didn't work then it only means not killing visitors wasn't encouraged enough.
-
Care to be more specific? I know nothing of it but if it didn't work then it only means not killing visitors wasn't encouraged enough.
Lol I wrote about it in earlier post in this thread. An ammount of stuff being traded in the town was transfered to TC box. I can remember all sorts of things appearing there: weapons ammo armors.. it was probably a lot more that what you are suggesting (some small part of caps ammount per deal) but it didn't encourage us to stop killing anybody. Also, the fact that people were being repeatedly killed in towns captured by us (BBS in that time), didn't discourage them from coming back there. It was like that throughout whole 2nd session, which is considered by many as the most interesting one, with a lot of people playing the game. You could go to any northern town and at any given time there was somebody to meet/shoot/talk to/kill bla bla. Also, there were multiple attempts to make towns player-driven, by Orphans in Den, VSB in Modoc, Regulators in Klamath.
-
Lol I wrote about it in earlier post in this thread. An ammount of stuff being traded in the town was transfered to TC box. I can remember all sorts of things appearing there: weapons ammo armors.. it was probably a lot more that what you are suggesting (some small part of caps ammount per deal) but it didn't encourage us to stop killing anybody. Also, the fact that people were being repeatedly killed in towns captured by us (BBS in that time), didn't discourage them from coming back there. It was like that throughout whole 2nd session, which is considered by many as the most interesting one, with a lot of people playing the game. You could go to any northern town and at any given time there was somebody to meet/shoot/talk to/kill bla bla. Also, there were multiple attempts to make towns player-driven, by Orphans in Den, VSB in Modoc, Regulators in Klamath.
Still not encouraged enough. Since the town controlling players had enough stuff already, they might aswell shoot the visitors for lulz since it's all the same whether or not they get some crap in the tc box. Player never really needed anything, so they just did what they wanted. Besides, those visitors could be scouts, pks and whatever harmdoers that were more dangerous back in those days since there was no militia.
The fact is that mechanics simply don't favour upholding a society.
-
That is reason, why you should give players something, that they can't simply obtain by different behaving.
-
Still not encouraged enough. Since the town controlling players had enough stuff already, they might aswell shoot the visitors for lulz since it's all the same whether or not they get some crap in the tc box. Player never really needed anything, so they just did what they wanted. Besides, those visitors could be scouts, pks and whatever harmdoers that were more dangerous back in those days since there was no militia.
The fact is that mechanics simply don't favour upholding a society.
Not being funny Avv but if thats the case then the mechanics need changing to support player cooperation (to an extent) just because a gang can bully its way into a town does not mean they should restrict it for everyone else who wishes to visit simply because 'they can.'
In my line of work we call those types of people ''Arse holes''
-
Well, what to say,I just certainly hope we never see that again :S
If I remember correctly, you will be able to buy one mutant mercenary per 9/10 CH character. Or two human mercs, or three dogs, whatever. Point is - if you want to secure your hideout with few muties, you're gonna need few "trolololeaders" to keep them in your "faction". This is how it works now, high CH 1lvl alt is perfect janitor. You set up mercs to kill anyone who's not member of faction and can sleep calm.
Well we won't if all followers won't attack without being told to. Auto attack mercs seem a bit too useful, and I love followers in general.
How do you get rid of unwanted member from your faction/base, for example thief, retard or trolololoassholio? Now you can set him as enemy in terminal, auto-attacking mercs will do the job. Sounds pretty useful for me.
-
Have different types and levels of guardedness.
The guards in guarded towns seems to have super high competence, perhaps the North Towns will have just a small force equipped from the towns' meager resources.
They may concentrate on protecting citizens and those who help the town through trade and donations.
(Must be Liked or better to be protected, for what it's worth.)
Perhaps players could gift the unguarded towns with freed slaves (except Den) and mercs.
Maybe help the unguarded towns pay for [non-uber] militia.
Sort of like how in TC militia could be bought, but these are NORMAL NPC guards, with regular stats, equipment, etc.
They just act like normal guards, and have no allegiance to a controlling gang. They would be of the same type as NPCs found in the respective areas, with the same gear. No laser rifles, rocket launchers, etc.
(Unless such items are given as gifts. This would not give the skill to use them, though.)
Also maybe these guards will expire if the payment account is depleted, so a reasonable amount would have to be donated now and then.)
-
As far as I can see, people say "guarded town == no pvp in there" ... which I find wrong. Just because there are guards, it doesn't mean there can't be any pvp. I'll guess people don't do any real pvp in there, because of two reasons:
1. Reinforcements in some towns are too heavy and
2. Chance to lose items is a lot higher, because you have to pwn NPC guards before you can pwn bluesuits.
At 1: Towns like Klamath or Modoc would have far less reinforcements than the NCR or Adytum, so it wouldn't be a that big deal. If you can take out the guards in the map, you might as well be able to take out the reinforcement troops.
At 2: Well, yeah.
In any case, just because a town has guards, it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to fight in there. If you can take it up with the NPCs, fine... Hell, nobody (Devs + Game Masters) would care, if now a big playergroup enters the NCR and starts taking out the guards and "takes over" the town in some kind of way. As long as no cheats / guard ai abuse (like blocking in doors) is done, nothing speaks against it. If we would want to have no players fight in these locations, we would simply set them to "no pvp" and you couldn't activate combat anymore.
And I hope you will never change it.
That's one of the reason I hate Fallen Earth => in non-pvp towns you can't even touch anynone => you pass through like ghosts => ABOSULTELY NO DANGER (btw another bad point of this game is that when you die, you don't lose your stuff, wasteland is soft in Fallen Earth )
- weakly protected areas/ average protected areas and strong protected areas is a really good point of Fonline 2238.
=> doing some talkings in such places is fun because you feel a bit safe but you are not completly safe => everything can happen (unlike crawling ghosts Fallen Earth 's cities)
BUT, as Crazy said, when exceptional events happen (such as the strike of NCR with many pvp gangs alliance one year ago) you should tell your GM not to intervene in such a harsh way: they spawned invicible BOS soldiers to stop the attack.
I understand such attacks have to remain exceptionnal but please when they happen, let it be.
http://www.fallout-3.com/w/images/9/92/Screen20032010020545.jpg
-
We will talk about it with the GMs, so they don't interrupt this anymore. Exception obviously is, if guard / ai abuse is in progress.
-
About Avv's suggestion. If a player comes to a town protected by a player driven faction and trades with the NPCs, the protectors might not only get some stuff or caps in the TC box, but it could also be the only source of militia: the logic would be that the town, under the protection of that gang, can trade well and develop, so it encourages the locals to support the gang.
I think this way, when a player driven faction is protecting a town they would tend not to kill visitors for the lulz, but to try to keep it safe, as it would give them caps/items, maybe less than if they kill the visitors of course, but it would also give them more militia, which means keeping the town (and the income) for a longer period of time.
-
About Avv's suggestion. If a player comes to a town protected by a player driven faction and trades with the NPCs, the protectors might not only get some stuff or caps in the TC box, but it could also be the only source of militia: the logic would be that the town, under the protection of that gang, can trade well and develop, so it encourages the locals to support the gang.
I think this way, when a player driven faction is protecting a town they would tend not to kill visitors for the lulz, but to try to keep it safe, as it would give them caps/items, maybe less than if they kill the visitors of course, but it would also give them more militia, which means keeping the town (and the income) for a longer period of time.
this would result in gang trading themselves to grow up militia. If something can be abused to gain advantage in game it will be, so the advantage must be taken very carefully :)
-
this would result in gang trading themselves to grow up militia. If something can be abused to gain advantage in game it will be, so the advantage must be taken very carefully :)
Yes this is true. The town and gang shouldn't get some sort of reputation or customer points per each new visitor. It has to be caps and stuff, that way it's not abusable by making customer-alts because then the same stuff just went round and round without profit.
-
And probably gaining militia from that way didnt say it must be better militia than now.
I suggest if that will be in live, max militia to bought maybe will 1/2 of max count what is now and rest from trades etc.