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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Off-topic discussions => Topic started by: BlindMaster on April 02, 2011, 07:10:05 pm
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Let's talk about it
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Maybe it will be easier to add some new items content, different skins/models for players and other cool stuff with upgreaded 3d engine :)
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I dont like 3D. It dont have a magic. Fallout without blood and gore scenes is not the same game.
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It was said lots and lots of times by now that particle effects still have to be done.
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Fat models will be underused because they are easier to target.
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Fat models will be underused because they are easier to target.
(http://www.pridefc.com/pride2005/images/fighter/354_l.jpg)
But maybe, they have more hp? ;)
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What I will use them.I got a grea idea about a big black BG named Big Sexy.Well I already have him but its not black.
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Fat models will be underused because they are easier to target.
OMG what did you say?! We will use Karpov's models not Van Baren models. Did you see 3D board lol ?
I dont like 3D. It dont have a magic. Fallout without blood and gore scenes is not the same game.
WTF? Blood will be added when it will done so what are you talking man ?
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Rage, eh?
I'm not into 3D models implementation. I don't say the models are bad, but I would like to see old critter models and implement dynamic objects for example. As for me, the game needs more content than "better" graphics.
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WTF? Blood will be added when it will done so what are you talking man ?
I will not believe it until I see it :)
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Well, Karpov made a rocket-explode test animation already and so far it looked better than expected.
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i dont know about others, but for me 3d critter outlines do not work, if it will be same for players... :'(
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Rage, eh?
I'm not into 3D models implementation. I don't say the models are bad, but I would like to see old critter models and implement dynamic objects for example. As for me, the game needs more content than "better" graphics.
Hmmmmmm you said some righ but 3D models are not only for better graphics. 3D give us more player-creator vision. We cannot make new characters without making thousand pictures so we must to use 3D. 3D is future and it is normal, sorry but 2D era is lost, we must to make progress dont back to past.
Offtopic: How Black Isle & Interplay made 2D critters? Maybe there are some programms?
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Better do FULL 3D ENGINE! 8)
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Yep make it like van burren with 3D enviorments.
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Maybe use Cold Zero engine?
Offtopic: How Black Isle & Interplay made 2D critters? Maybe there are some programms?
I don't know :(
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Maybe use Cold Zero engine?I don't know :(
Lol pixel drawing maybe :))
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Yep make it like van burren with 3D enviorments.
The engine is already supporting 3D walls, tiles, environment objects. Literally - everything. But it doesn't YET support 360 degree rotation. Though, I believe it's a matter of time.
Currently Cvet are working on porting engine to the Linux, which should significantly increase the server's stability and performance.
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But it doesn't YET support 360 degree rotation. Though, I believe it's a matter of time.
Will be 360 option in the future? Is it possible?
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Let's stay in 2.5D, with fixed camera :P
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I think I'll wait to judge 3D when it's done, because currently you're stuck with horrible looking face, dull armor and WIP animations.
Some progress is incredible ( character shape is really close to original, and some weapons are REALLY nice ), but on other hand I still don't like how armors look there and some of them are really horrible ( especialy metal armor, which is one of the most common armors currently worn in 2238 )
Better do FULL 3D ENGINE!
I don't know if anyone is going for this, but it'd require quite a lot of time, not only to do assets looking like sprites, but also to make suree it's well controlable and user friendly.
I'd prefer 2D, and 3D actors if they really do look like sprites at default zoom.
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3D will be introduced so we can easly add new skins to caracters, so will not be neading to make 100000 frames for every new skin
this will save memory and we try to make them look like the original so it will not lose it's charm
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but on other hand I still don't like how armors look there and some of them are really horrible ( especialy metal armor, which is one of the most common armors currently worn in 2238 )
Metal Armor have some problems with the textures, not the model itself. You're free to make your own version and if it will be better, I see no reason why it wouldn't be used in the game.
P.S. If you need these textures, you can take them from the 3D repository (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=14217.0).
Will be 360 option in the future? Is it possible?
I'm absolutely sure that such feature will be never introduced at 2238, while there could be such option for other projects.
Let's stay in 2.5D, with fixed camera :P
Honestly, 360 degree camera have a lot of advantages, if it's done properly. But as I already said I believe that it will be never introduced at 2238.
My main interest is aesthetic. I think if we were going to add guns we would have done so already. I'm just interested in having slightly more character variation. Shame we'll only use the regular hero model.
Who said that we are going to use the "hero" model only? Maybe you've been confused by the fact that this is the only model, which are ready to use.
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My main interest is aesthetic. I think if we were going to add guns we would have done so already. I'm just interested in having slightly more character variation. Shame we'll only use the regular hero model.
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Better do FULL 3D ENGINE! 8)
Meh. Oh, and it's stillbirth.
http://planetfallout.gamespy.com/articles/news/207/Fallout-3-Online-Mod
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I'm absolutely sure that such feature will be never introduced at 2238, while there could be such option for other projects.
.... but it is possible to do? If yes, great I will use it on my private-fun server.
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.... but it is possible to do? If yes, great I will use it on my private-fun server.
Private fun server, huh? IF such feature will be implemented someday, it would require a lot of work to get some results, not just click -> done.
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Meh. Oh, and it's stillbirth.
http://planetfallout.gamespy.com/articles/news/207/Fallout-3-Online-Mod
Lizard that shit its a lie and its old.It has almost the same age as the Fallout 3 release.
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How will work 360 camera? Will it for players move only or can I change camera what I want? How maps will be if 360 is here?
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There won't be a 360deg view, not in the next 3years.
All tilles would need to be remade in 3d, ground textures, rocks, trees, grass, walls, buildings, shelvs, tables, tents...all of it. Then all maps would need to be recreated using the new tilles.
But there's more! There would need to be a engin upgrade to optimize each map (send geoms to the gpu in bigger batches not one by one).
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Like said many times already, we don't want to add 3d map objects other than critters. This means, no 360° view for FOnline: 2238, never ever.
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Like said many times already, we don't want to add 3d map objects other than critters. This means, no 360° view for FOnline: 2238, never ever.
But still.. Critters takes damn much time about modeling and doing death animations for them.
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But still.. Critters takes damn much time about modeling and doing death animations for them.
And your point is ??
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And your point is ??
My point is that 3D stuff takes lot time before it's done and ready to tested ingame.
Maybe next year :P
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"Hm, I'm writing a new ingame function, it may take a week or more before it's done."
"Oh no, don't do it, it takes a week of implementing it."
"Ok, I won't do it."
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Do you see how retarded your previous post is?
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I said that don't do it it takes too much time?
I don't care when 3D it's done, but wipe is more important.
I just said truft about 3D.
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3d models and animations are done by the community. This does not influence the wipe date in any kind of way.
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How Black Isle & Interplay made 2D critters? Maybe there are some programms?
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How Black Isle & Interplay made 2D critters? Maybe there are some programms?
If I remember good I already told you.It's called pixel drawing. Let me google it for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pixel+drawnings).
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If I remember good I already told you.It's called pixel drawing. Let me google it for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pixel+drawnings).
So BlackIsle hired all those 10.000 Northkoreans to draw all those pretty female hero animations pixel by pixel. Uh-huh... Hats off.
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Not just 6-7 people :)
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Please. Stop writing if you dont have any idea what your' writing about.
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They were made in 3d, animated in 3d and rendered to static 2d frames.
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They were made in 3d, animated in 3d and rendered to static 2d frames.
Can we do it?
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we are doing this already.. makng 3d models, creating animations, rendering in the game.
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They were made in 3d, animated in 3d and rendered to static 2d frames.
Can we do it?
we are doing this already.. makng 3d models, creating animations, rendering in the game.
What? It seem people are talking at cross purposes here.
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3d models are probably somewhat better than rendering full set of new characters.
For low resolution graphics at Fallout times, crappy renders looked quite impressive when placed in game ( you can check game animated sequences that the used models are definetly nothing you'd 2000's CGI ).
It's still expensive to do that kind of stuff, and rendering lowres models have some advantages as well ( esp. animations )
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What? It seem people are talking at cross purposes here.
Nah, not really. We're just using renders in the game, while Interplay used renders to create 2d sprites(rendered - or in other words - converted them into frames).
"render" is such a confusing word.
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let me explain why we do the 3D for criters
1. if we whant to add a new hair cut, we do not need to make a googol of frames for ech gun and armor, we can just make a mesh and put it relatively on the top of all the previus skeletal meshes, thus saving time,manpower and memory
2. this way it will look cooler, but we are trying to make the 3D meshes so they look as close to the original as posible, so we do not lose the Fallout theme
3.(optional)we try to make 3D critters so we can sell use rights to BlackIsle for next Fallout games that will be with indirect PC controll(not a FPS,but more like the original)so there will be better Fallout games than F3, more like the original, but still good to play for the graphic seeker games of today that do not give a shit on gameplay, and therefore help making the best Falout Game Ever(a Fallout 4 or 5 with original Fallout gameplay)
4(optional) to hava a LagMaster post in a 3D tread where he askes politely for someone to spell check it, cuz is late and he must go to sleep
can you please Spell check this
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If you render stuff to sprites, you can simply render full set every time you want to add something new, that's not a problem.
It's however harder to mod, that's still not a problem.
But with all the stuff needed, you'd have frames for every skin, and hair multiplied with graphics for every armor and that all multiplied with graphics for every weapon, creating thousands of replacing frames, and adding quite some size and load if it's saved in reasonable resolution.
Also to match 3D quality, much more frames per animation would have to be saved, increasing the bloat even more.
Ofcourse it'd probably be possible to add weapons as extra frames, and skin tones as additional effect on default frames, but it'd still be loaded and won't be much less work than with realtime 3D graphics.
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did you ever think, after all the suffering of Cvet and the rest of the devs, that the old way of animation is better?
I mean like in the original Fallouts:
we design everything in 3D way, with all the quality, excesive number of polygons, HD textures and particle effects that a supercomputer can holds...and then we renderize all with a powerful super tool, and we capture all that stuff in 2D, all the animations in the 6 positions that can be in Fallout: and voila!!! they will not be 3D, but will look better than the actual 3D models, within tire the engine, because, in the end, they are only frames changing like in the original game.
so what you think?
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That'd be great if you wouldn't need that amount of animations.
Yeah for weapons you could probably render weapon as additional sprite, so that you could've weapons visible without having milion more frames, and that could be perhaps solution for headgear and head graphics as well.
But it wouldn't make animations any smoother.
In any way, models have to be done.
However i'd also like to see how'd some sprites worked with it, because frankly, I don't see anyone creating good enough death anims, especialy for flamer (which is going to be really hard done in 3D) or electrical.
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did you ever think, after all the suffering of Cvet and the rest of the devs, that the old way of animation is better?
I mean like in the original Fallouts:
No.
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A lot of people like the old animations the 3d ones will be as close to them as they can Karpov did it good.
The only problem with the old frms is that its time consuming to make new ones Lexx worked on new critters so he knows it just like all who ever tried to make one.
Look at the new hero looks bald and long hair dude they took a lot of time to get finished implementing new armors models would take the same amount of time if we stick to 2d.
Still 3d isn't superior toward 2d it just makes things easier (especially mass producing new critters).
With nice texture size and with some in game filters the models will be able to look just like 2d sprites.
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Personally I absolutely love the original sprites and animations - but I also love the fact that we will eventually get to the point where simply recolouring one texture magically gives us full sets of animation for every type of body, with every type of weapon. Once a Vault 13 bluesuit has all the possible animations working properly, you change the number on the back - 5 minutes in Photoshop, and your Vault 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 etc all exist, and shortly afterwards, can be fully implemented in game too. No "animation not found" crashes and no "changing sprite when you use a particular weapon" or anything. If someone needs to add an extra animation for a mod, that animation will magically be automatically applied (in all directions) to all characters using the same base model. You can't not love that.
On the other hand, I want those models to fit into the environment and look "correct". Correct colour, correct shape, correct lighting, correct art style, everything. As close to the sprites as is possible - and I will try my best to help the people who can make this happen. I'm not the best modeller or texturer in the world, but I'm getting better. If things aren't good enough, we can always go back and improve things at a later date. The same freedom which allows us to create new characters can also be used to improve those characters. Take a texture, improve it in Photoshop, copy it into the folder. Done. Looks better.
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For low resolution graphics at Fallout times, crappy renders looked quite impressive when placed in game
Yes, and even better - high-poly models would look terrible. You would just have too much triangles to put into one pixel, not only it would be overkill, it would also result in terrible artifacts (you may read on that, and on other interesting 3d stuff here (http://blogs.msdn.com/b/shawnhar/archive/2011/05/18/geometry-aliasing.aspx) )