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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: vedaras on March 06, 2011, 11:56:35 am

Title: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: vedaras on March 06, 2011, 11:56:35 am
Well anyone that has or had unarmed character in f2 or fonline should know that unarmed skill allows you to preform special attacks, and those who dont can read shortly in here: http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Unarmed . The thing is that these bonuses are quite good, for example +15% critical chance if you are able to cast haymaker, and all unarmed weapons are able only to be used as normal "punch" without any bonuses. This greatly reduces need of unarmed weapons usage. I think it would be reasonable to think that if you are able to preform special strike with your fist, you could still preform that special strike with your fist in a glove (like power fist). So the suggestion is simple, add special unarmed attacks with its bonuses to unarmed weapons as well.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: pistacja on March 06, 2011, 12:12:10 pm
Unarmed weapons are better then fists in dealing pure damage (maybe except brass knuckles), fist and feet have the upper hand on critical hits.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Imprezobus on March 06, 2011, 12:16:10 pm
maybe add some funky attacks to melee?
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: vedaras on March 06, 2011, 12:19:58 pm
Unarmed weapons are better then fists in dealing pure damage (maybe except brass knuckles), fist and feet have the upper hand on critical hits.

ye kill someone with pure damage and unarmed weapon in pvp fight then we could talk...

maybe add some funky attacks to melee?

well melee damage already received a boost, dont know if they need it even more :>
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: pistacja on March 06, 2011, 12:32:38 pm
ye kill someone with pure damage in pvp fight then we could talk...
What makes you think unarmed is a skill for pvp? It's good on molerats and centaurs.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: vedaras on March 06, 2011, 12:40:37 pm
What makes you think unarmed is a skill for pvp? It's good on molerats and centaurs.

all skills that can do damage are or can be used for pvp. If you lack skills or experience to use it that way it doesnt make them non pvp skills :>
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: avv on March 06, 2011, 12:54:15 pm
all skills that can do damage are or can be used for pvp. If you lack skills or experience to use it that way it doesnt make them non pvp skills :>

If pvp is all about skills and experience, can't you defeat unarmed fighter with your melee char by using skills and experience?
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: vedaras on March 06, 2011, 01:05:31 pm
If pvp is all about skills and experience

first of all where did i say that? dont invent another bike

to below: learn to read...
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: avv on March 06, 2011, 01:11:47 pm
first of all where did i say that? dont invent another bike

all skills that can do damage are or can be used for pvp. If you lack skills or experience to use it that way it doesnt make them non pvp skills :>
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: vedaras on March 07, 2011, 06:01:41 pm
as you vote dont be  so shy to drop a few words about it ^^
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: foonlinecurious on March 08, 2011, 04:51:32 am
I don,t remember all of the different unarmed attacks you can get, but what if its some kind of kick? you can do a lot of damage with a good kick, and having brass knuckles wouldn't really influence it much.
so it depends on the move.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: vedaras on March 08, 2011, 09:44:11 am
I don,t remember all of the different unarmed attacks you can get, but what if its some kind of kick? you can do a lot of damage with a good kick, and having brass knuckles wouldn't really influence it much.
so it depends on the move.

well i think it is quite obvious that you couldnt cast a kick with your arm... So the suggestion is of course unarmed weapons to have only arm special attacks.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Andr3aZ on March 08, 2011, 09:57:54 am
mega power fist -> eyes. Punch Punch Punch. Job done for me, dunno what you guys do as unarmed chars.
but yeah, i know, you need crits for such action.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Johnnybravo on March 08, 2011, 06:52:22 pm
I think this is quite a good topic, and definetly would be nice to get some answer.
Obviously, if you have HtH weapons that are barelly better than completly unarmed attacks, then what's the point of those weapons?
Then again, if those weapons are always better what's the point of all those special attacks?

Mind this, we should probably ask, is there any reason why shouldn't hth weapons be balanced around supporting those special attack modes?
Anyway it's a little messed up, because BI added two very similar skills, so that some stuff could be also applicable for melee weapons...
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Delta77 on March 08, 2011, 07:43:49 pm
unarmed vs bg with lsw = ?. unarmed vs plasma rifle = ? . unarmed vs 3 burst smg= ?. Unarmed isnt good for pvp dont waste your time, if you want to pvp choose another weapon.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: vedaras on March 08, 2011, 10:17:49 pm
unarmed is good against every weapon just not lsw or avenger, it could be perfectly fit for pvp, and if for example you could have haymaker for 15% crit chance bonus, or piercing  strike with 40% crit bonus on mega power fist, it would be decent pvp skill in close encounters for sure, so what we need now is just add it :>
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Rusty on March 08, 2011, 10:30:54 pm
I agree with this great suggestion and no, i'm not being tortured nor blackmailed by Vedaras.  :'(



Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: vedaras on March 09, 2011, 12:27:18 pm
well if rusty tells that, then i cant argue no more and devs have to add this to game ^^
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: avv on March 09, 2011, 12:37:28 pm
Why don't we take the special attacks off from barefisted guys and add them in melee/unarmed weapons? Thats because unarmed guy is basically armed with gear that cannot be removed. I can't loot somebody's haymaker but he can loot my p90.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: pistacja on March 09, 2011, 01:06:09 pm
Why don't we take the special attacks off from barefisted guys and add them in melee/unarmed weapons? Thats because unarmed guy is basically armed with gear that cannot be removed. I can't loot somebody's haymaker but he can loot my p90.
That is true.

Maybe all the special attacks should be removed? What purpose to they serve?
Melee and unarmed are two skills that are totally alike and that's a bit pointless. Maybe one can be made to dish out nice damage (I vote for melee for that with super cattle prod, ripper, super sledge) and the other to do nice criticals? Every 10% in melee would give +1 max damage, every 10% in unarmed could give +1% critical chance... well just an idea :P
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: kraskish on March 09, 2011, 01:25:57 pm
I have a suggestion for sledge/supersledge move - nutcracker - does extra dmg to the head/groin  ;D
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Solar on March 09, 2011, 01:35:47 pm
Maybe all the special attacks should be removed? What purpose to they serve?

I think that is significantly more likely than adding the special attacks to the weapons.

Damage/Critical output isn't the problem, the perks for unarmed/melee guys are. Perks are being significanly re-worked, so hopefully there will be more freedom in character design - with some nice toys for the close combat guys to play with that aren't just ramping up the deadliness of their weapons.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Delta77 on March 19, 2011, 02:11:08 am
unarmed is good against every weapon just not lsw or avenger, it could be perfectly fit for pvp, and if for example you could have haymaker for 15% crit chance bonus, or piercing  strike with 40% crit bonus on mega power fist, it would be decent pvp skill in close encounters for sure, so what we need now is just add it :>

 against what? a crippler would cripple your leg and make you never get him, the burster if you get too close he burst you 3 times with a smg and you are dead, the nader wouldn't let you go up, the bgs own at close range, the plasma rifle can kill everything.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: vedaras on March 19, 2011, 10:21:27 am
against what? a crippler would cripple your leg and make you never get him, the burster if you get too close he burst you 3 times with a smg and you are dead, the nader wouldn't let you go up, the bgs own at close range, the plasma rifle can kill everything.

please learn how to pro in fonline then troll in my topics
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Badger on March 19, 2011, 11:54:36 am
how to pro in fonline

:(

Just going to leave this here:

In Your Face! is a perk from Van Buren, the canceled Fallout 3 project by Black Isle, and J.E. Sawyer's Fallout Role-Playing Game.

Opponents can't make called shots with thrown weapons or firearms when you are within 1 hex and are only holding melee weapons or are unarmed. They also suffer a -10% penalty to hit with those weapons against all targets.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Solar on March 19, 2011, 12:17:24 pm
Yes, I also read this whilst doing my research for the new perks. There will be one called that, but the effect will be different.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: pistacja on March 19, 2011, 12:39:31 pm
Yes, I also read this whilst doing my research for the new perks. There will be one called that, but the effect will be different.

I just love the way you give us meta-information :D

Any insight on how the effect will be different? Or are we doomed to wait for wipe to know?
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Solar on March 19, 2011, 12:53:17 pm
It wouldn't be a teaser if I just told you everything ;)
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: vedaras on March 20, 2011, 01:10:53 pm
Yes, I also read this whilst doing my research for the new perks. There will be one called that, but the effect will be different.

if its true that we will have 24 levels, slayer could be cool ^^ unarmed wouldnt be overpowered or anything, would be more balanced in my opinion :>
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Delta77 on March 22, 2011, 10:46:04 pm
please learn how to pro in fonline then troll in my topics

so you wear ba and use psycho?
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Fusei on April 12, 2011, 11:44:42 pm
if its true that we will have 24 levels, slayer could be cool ^^ unarmed wouldnt be overpowered or anything, would be more balanced in my opinion :>
Well I don't know if it'd be unbalanced, I don't have a lot of experience in foo ^^" But if this perk were to be available we'd sure see more hth roaming around.
I'm a bit tired of sg/bg everywhere !
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: RavenousRat on April 12, 2011, 11:51:15 pm
Well I don't know if it'd be unbalanced, I don't have a lot of experience in foo ^^" But if this perk were to be available we'd sure see more hth roaming around.
I'm a bit tired of sg/bg everywhere !
Only if power fists will give them that power and mega power fists will eat MFCs, so HtHers will need resources to be used in combat properly, like any SG or EW or BG or thrower character, or else it shouldn't be balanced with other types of weapon, because of it's cheap usage.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Fusei on April 13, 2011, 12:31:51 am
Only if power fists will give them that power and mega power fists will eat MFCs, so HtHers will need resources to be used in combat properly, like any SG or EW or BG or thrower character, or else it shouldn't be balanced with other types of weapon, because of it's cheap usage.
Ok thx. Huh sorry what's "MFC" ?
Personaly i'd like to have to do some crafting/shopping. Atm i'm just bashing naked, again and again... Every now and then I buy an armor but it breaks pretty quick (lvl 12, pve and low repair skill ^^"). That's about the only use I have for caps (yeah i'ain't a junky ! ).
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: RavenousRat on April 13, 2011, 12:35:14 am
Ok thx. Huh sorry what's "MFC" ?
Personaly i'd like to have to do some crafting/shopping. Atm i'm just bashing naked, again and again... Every now and then I buy an armor but it breaks pretty quick (lvl 12, pve and low repair skill ^^"). That's about the only use I have for caps (yeah i'ain't a junky ! ).
1) MFC=Micro Fusion Cells
2) You don't need armor in PvE, if only metal against laser muties in RT or TB in plain desert without rocks. However bluesuit looks ugly, so wear leather jacket! And doesn't matter if it's broken already long time ago by angry molerats, it still look stylish. Also broken leather jacket, like bluesuit, gains special ability - immunity to armor bypass! Because there's nothing to bypass, so it's not that bad.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Ganado on April 13, 2011, 12:38:29 am
Only if power fists will give them that power and mega power fists will eat MFCs, so HtHers will need resources to be used in combat properly, like any SG or EW or BG or thrower character, or else it shouldn't be balanced with other types of weapon, because of it's cheap usage.
I like this idea, only the weapons that use the ammo should be able to add onto the critical affects and/or damage of Haymaker. That way we won't have people getting 95% critical chance to hit with spiked knuckles, or another weak weapon.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Fusei on April 13, 2011, 12:59:12 am
Thx for the tip ! And sorry about the mfc I could have figured it out if i had try a little harder.

It's a bit off-topic but if hth were to use mfc massively, wouldn't it be fair to remove the energy weapons requirement from the energy expert profession ?
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: RavenousRat on April 13, 2011, 01:01:38 am
It's a bit off-topic but if hth were to use mfc massively, wouldn't it be fair to remove the energy weapons requirement from the energy expert profession ?
Ahahah, it would be fair to remove power fists and cattle prods from there and let it be craftable by having blueprints without profs at all, but with unarmed/melee +prolly repair/science or whatever requirements.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Ganado on April 13, 2011, 01:09:11 am
It's a bit off-topic but if hth were to use mfc massively, wouldn't it be fair to remove the energy weapons requirement from the energy expert profession ?
It's unfair even with current game mechanics. That part of EE profession makes no sense. *cough* (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=8109.0)
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Fusei on April 13, 2011, 01:11:35 am
Ahahah, it would be fair to remove power fists and cattle prods from there and let it be craftable by having blueprints without profs at all, but with unarmed/melee +prolly repair/science or whatever requirements.
Well I was thinking of "crafter" hther being able to supply themself with mfc. Yeah i don't like rely on others for basic stuff (like being able to bash lol !).

[EDIT] :
It's unfair even with current game mechanics. That part of EE profession makes no sense. *cough* (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=8109.0)
I didn't dare say it :p
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: RavenousRat on April 13, 2011, 01:14:56 am
Well I was thinking of "crafter" hther being able to supply themself with mfc. Yeah i don't like rely on others for basic stuff (like being able to bash lol !).
Actually you don't need MFCs, only SECs (not sex!) to keep powerfist running, it doesn't require any prof levels, but requires 40 in EW skill and some science, also it requires alot science to craft materials that needed for SECs, also self-sufficient characters aren't usually good in combat.
Also, screw this boring crafting, when you can loot powerfists from NPCs near SF along with SECs.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Fusei on April 13, 2011, 01:30:44 am
Actually you don't need MFCs, only SECs (not sex!) to keep powerfist running

Sorry i forget to mention that i was still thinking about your suggestion :

Only if power fists will give them that power and mega power fists will eat MFCs

And hey ! I like crafting. But i agree that i'd be a lot less combat effective. I have a hard time figuring a slayer-crafter build lol.
Anyway it's a long shot, better enjoy the game as it is.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: runboy93 on April 13, 2011, 09:03:43 am
Oh btw.
Quote
Melee and Hand-to-hand weapons do not deteriorate.
And why ripper and powerfists can be deteriorate?
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: LagMaster on April 13, 2011, 09:39:45 am
i stonrgly agree to this cuz i sugested something like this before

Unarmed weapons are whore than bare fists, ou must buy/craft them and fist don't require caps
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Solar on April 13, 2011, 10:47:57 am
Runboy, items that stack don't deteriorate. That is the only reason some weapons det and some don't.
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: Andr3aZ on April 13, 2011, 02:40:57 pm
Runboy, items that stack don't deteriorate. That is the only reason some weapons det and some don't.

Coding - easy mode :D
Title: Re: Unarmed weapons should be better than fists...
Post by: manero on April 13, 2011, 04:57:47 pm
Nerf big guns instead :P :P :P