fodev.net

Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: None on February 26, 2011, 06:19:33 am

Title: Randomness in encouters
Post by: None on February 26, 2011, 06:19:33 am
How to make PVE more enjoyable? Randomness is the word.
Heres what i was writtin last time about them:
Quote
Encouters
I like the way how it is now, but more randomness with piece of surety in other ways would be appreciated same as with more variety and "good squares". The map is big and this game is almost all about encouters(atleast the PVE part), the hard work in this way would be most creditable. I would love some encouters with random corpses tents or whatever where you can find, scavange some random stuff/treasures, ofcourse embattled with some critters or NPC's.
So this combinated with my another suggestion, but iam not sure if engine could support this but i'll throw it outside anyway.
Here it is. Randomness in encouters NPC's health, skills, stats and mainly stuff. Now its like - you have encoutered Raiders - everyone can imagine few punk girls with spears, guy/s with mauser and some corpses where the dead tribal women has stimpak - "cancel". This is boring. There should be some randomness, ofcourse in some limits of each encouter difficulty but still. Skills, it could be like - "Look at that mutie with laser rifle, hes totally lame" or "Kill that sniper mutie, his aimed shots are nasty".
Stuff, i know there are some limits with sprites, so some NPC's cant use rifles etc. But you could still prevent it by setting some percentage or scale of weapons. There could be some little chance for some nice weapons or other stuff too, what would make the encouter even harder and interesting.

Just dont go this way - "We implemented and made a lot of work with crafting system so nerf encouters and force people to craft" crafting is boring and should be in game just like an option, encouters should be fun and interesting, not predictable(that much). Nothing can bore you more when you make a work with some equipment, you invest time and effort into it and you'll lose it in one bad encouter or troll in city(ofcourse they would have a lot of fun, the more time and effort you spend into your stuff). It's good how it is, dont go lower or people will run in bluesuit all the time, its not matter of stuff but the pain by losing it, losing your time.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: avv on February 26, 2011, 09:38:00 am
It'd add more spice for sure. The lugerman and spearwoman raiders encounter is indeed getting old. The npcs could even use and drop drugs randomly. We players use assload of drugs, how come the regular robbers don't?
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Slaver Snipe on February 26, 2011, 09:47:23 am
I like the idea but to answer avv, farmable drugs too? No Thanks.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: avv on February 26, 2011, 09:52:10 am
I like the idea but to answer avv, farmable drugs too? No Thanks.

Jet is already farmable. My point was that the drugs would be totally random. Buffout and psycho could be even very rare.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Alvarez on February 26, 2011, 10:43:55 am
Randomness, you say?

What about this: you just killed the last molerat, suddenly, 5 Soviet Supermutants encounter YOU!

You will always stay sharp in combat and encounters will be more unpredictable and dangerous.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: None on February 26, 2011, 10:52:26 am
Randomness, you say?

What about this: you just killed the last molerat, suddenly, 5 Soviet Supermutants encounter YOU!

You will always stay sharp in combat and encounters will be more unpredictable and dangerous.
Well, do you feel safe to stay in any encouter for too long? With so many PK's dwelling in wastland, i dont (not sure if you meant by Soviet Supermutants, russian pks) . Dont derail this thread, ty.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Alvarez on February 26, 2011, 11:03:26 am
Well, do you feel safe to stay in any encouter for too long? With so many PK's dwelling in wastland, i dont(not sure if you meant by Soviet Supermutants, russian pks) . Dont derail this thread, ty.

I do not derail it, you wanted randomness. Indeed i know how it feels to get killed by PKs. I feel unsafe in encounters and that's the thrill. And that's indeed the randomness and diversity. :)

However, their radio traps could be also ambushed by something else than unsuspecting bluesuit...
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Haraldx on February 26, 2011, 11:11:08 am
What about this: you just killed the last molerat, suddenly, 5 Soviet Supermutants encounter YOU!
In Soviet Russia, the last molerat kill you and encounter 5 soviet supermutants!
Sorry, about that, I just came up with this.

Yes, Encounters need to have some randomness, would be good if you could find some random and useless stuff, example:
2,3% I will find a Cats Paw magazine on a dead Raider.
5,7% I will find a golden watch on a dead robber (because he stole it from somebody already)
etc, etc.

This also remind me one of those topics about the Explorer perk, if you have explorer perk, your chance to find such items is doubled. I hope you get my idea.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: None on February 26, 2011, 11:14:00 am
Sure, good idea just bring it on and develop these suggestions.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Alvarez on February 26, 2011, 11:19:20 am
Good one, i agree.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Solar on February 26, 2011, 11:19:41 am
Jet is already farmable. My point was that the drugs would be totally random. Buffout and psycho could be even very rare.

Hm, I thought I removed Jet from all encounters, I'll have to check and fix at some point.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: None on February 26, 2011, 11:26:28 am
This idea could fix it too, becouse there wouldnt be any sure what you will get from NPC's, no intended farming.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Haraldx on February 26, 2011, 11:27:31 am
This idea could fix it too, becouse there wouldnt be any sure what will you get from NPC's, no sureness in farming.
Maybe you will get plastic explosives with 5 second fuse? ;D
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: None on February 26, 2011, 11:31:12 am
Maybe you will get plastic explosives with 5 second fuse? ;D
Not as that much randomness, but who would knows, maybe 8)
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Solar on February 26, 2011, 11:41:11 am
Well, theres no way to make things as random as different SPECIAL, skills, etc. You can create more randomness in the different NPCs there are potentially in the encounter, which is what I was up to before I moved house - and what I will get back to as soon as I'm set up again. Its just a long process.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: None on February 26, 2011, 12:29:50 pm
So theoretically if we hit the 3D era and you could make NPC's into 3D, we would still meet the same raiders with same appearance but 3D? All the time the same guy with same chicks? There wouldnt be any random mixed looks? Only the ones what you would manually pre made?
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Slaver Snipe on February 26, 2011, 12:37:30 pm
I'm pretty sure 3d is for PC's not for npcs, although having it for mercs would be nice.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Surf on February 26, 2011, 05:20:21 pm
Adding/removing/editing stuff in the encounters table is one of the most pain in the ass jobs when it comes to the game. So this will take a while, just don't await stuff like that next weekend or similar. :P
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: None on March 31, 2011, 12:41:26 pm
So, hows goin?  ;)
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Solar on March 31, 2011, 01:48:36 pm
Well, theres no way to make things as random as different SPECIAL, skills, etc. You can create more randomness in the different NPCs there are potentially in the encounter, which is what I was up to before I moved house - and what I will get back to as soon as I'm set up again. Its just a long process.

The thing I am currently working on is the things I said was impossible in that quote ;)

An aim of mine for after the wipe is to have it possible to get all your stuff from encounters, without it being so simple and boring as it is now.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Johnnybravo on March 31, 2011, 01:59:39 pm
Quote
all your stuff from encounters
How will armors work?
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: None on March 31, 2011, 02:15:17 pm
Behold... The Shiny future of PvE and grouping! :'( :-*

Some personal karma system to "separate the wheat from the weeds" and we are set!
(like visible to everyone as name colorizing, without knowledge and manual setting of/for each player, so newbies can be beware of "hook 'n' bite"rs)
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: SIGISMUND on March 31, 2011, 03:17:24 pm
Hm, I thought I removed Jet from all encounters, I'll have to check and fix at some point.

I still find them on Bandits and Slavers.Btw you should lower the condoms on slaver I mean what the fuck? 18 condoms? He had more condoms than ammo.

The thing I am currently working on is the things I said was impossible in that quote ;)

An aim of mine for after the wipe is to have it possible to get all your stuff from encounters, without it being so simple and boring as it is now.

Wait like Combat Armor,P90,Psycho that kind of stuff.Or maybe you should make that raiders.slavers,regulators to drop their armor sometimes like 1/4 regulators in encounter to drop their armor.Could make the game more realistic.Even in Van Buren,Fallout 3,Fallout NV,Fallout 1 you could get their armors(well Fallout 1 at the raiders base)
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Wolffik on April 02, 2011, 09:47:33 pm
IMO lets keep NPC's as they are. The same SPECIAL, skills, stats, weapons, but implement random encounting. For example NCR army are random around the NCR, San Francisco caravan is randomly on any like from SF->NCR, SF->BH, SF->HUB, SF->any-other-town. Muties are in some areas, but not exactly in some coords...

In one words, you know what I mean. Random encounters.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Cocain on April 07, 2011, 03:26:59 am
if the point is to buff pve then the answer is very easy: lairs

if uve played other mmrpg in know what im talking

the depeer u go the harder it gets, the more treasures u find and the more players u need to help you





Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Solar on April 07, 2011, 01:41:21 pm
Quote
if the point is to buff pve then the answer is very easy: lairs

Very easy to say, a little more to it to actually get something like it finished. There is some form of dungeon-like-thing in the works, not sure how far off it is.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: None on July 07, 2011, 09:13:26 am
Just imagine the possibilities if you could get some stuff as special parts for crafting, upgrading weapons/cars/base(its stupid how you can buy hundreds of brand new cars just for caps), gettin scripts from which you can learn how to make something, gettin maps of locations where you can send one of your sneaky friends to check it out or bring your friend scientist to extract some components from a wreck whats in there, kill the remains of gang and plunder their cave/tent, find a hidden stash("oops! there was a trap)... etc.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Lexx on July 07, 2011, 09:59:06 am
Talking the talk is always the easy part. Creating the actual content, on the other hand, is what takes ages and workpower.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: None on July 07, 2011, 11:57:57 am
You just need to make this game more "human friendly" not like how it is now PK-Troll paradise when only "the strongest will survive". With more people the more energy/manpower/money and most important the Will to work/develop further, would come.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Grommok on July 07, 2011, 02:13:54 pm
PK-Troll paradise when only "the strongest will survive".
Yeah! Lets teach them Darwin's theory!
Talking the talk is always the easy part. Creating the actual content, on the other hand, is what takes ages and workpower.
I know... even the "easy" stuff takes ages.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Luther Blissett on July 07, 2011, 04:37:16 pm
[..]maybe you should make that raiders.slavers,regulators to drop their armor sometimes like 1/4 regulators in encounter to drop their armor.Could make the game more realistic.Even in Van Buren,Fallout 3,Fallout NV,Fallout 1 you could get their armors(well Fallout 1 at the raiders base)

Personally I'd wondered about NPCs dropping bits of broken armour (i.e. metal parts or leather parts) which you can then craft into armours, or use to repair armours - same with guns really - metal parts or gun parts or something - it'd make sense to build / repair a gun with 5 half-broken guns, or to make / repair a leather armour by stitching together lots of armour pieces you'd scavenged.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Grommok on July 07, 2011, 11:07:29 pm
Makes sense in my mind. I think that could be done, but after all devs got da last word, mon.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: naossano on July 08, 2011, 11:13:55 pm
Don't you use the table encounter editor from Fallout2 ? (worldmap.txt)
(need to know if Fallout editing knowledge is usefull for fonline editing)
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Lexx on July 11, 2011, 07:15:18 am
No. FOnline: 2238 uses a totally new, written from scratch, encounter system + world editor. Everyone who by choice edits encounters via worldmap.txt seems to have too much free time.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Triskaidekaphobe on July 14, 2011, 02:18:41 pm
On a similar note.

I got into an encounter recently in an urban environment and I got an idea.
Sometimes in Urban maps you get certain objects appearing; for instance the Nuka Cola machines or Bluesuited skeletons. I was wondering whether it would be possible to make objects like these have a chance of dropping correlating items when searched. Not to the extent where they could be farmed like junk but to the point where there is a incentive to take a deeper look around the map rather than just looking for junk and moving on.

Just a related idea, possibly incredibly hard to implement.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Grommok on July 14, 2011, 03:38:12 pm
On a similar note.

I got into an encounter recently in an urban environment and I got an idea.
Sometimes in Urban maps you get certain objects appearing; for instance the Nuka Cola machines or Bluesuited skeletons. I was wondering whether it would be possible to make objects like these have a chance of dropping correlating items when searched. Not to the extent where they could be farmed like junk but to the point where there is a incentive to take a deeper look around the map rather than just looking for junk and moving on.

Just a related idea, possibly incredibly hard to implement.
Bluesuit skeletons dont drop junk? However i like the idea of such things giving away items, like nuka cola or water flasks.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Triskaidekaphobe on July 14, 2011, 03:46:44 pm
Bluesuit skeletons dont drop junk?

Last time I checked you couldn't even open up any sort of 'loot table' (though I think the one just outside the unopened Vault can be looted. I'm pretty sure I looked in him once and found brahmin dung :P). I think that every other skeleton is just like the Nuka Cola machines they can only be inspected at this point of time.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Grommok on July 14, 2011, 04:00:16 pm
Oh. Well then giving water flasks or 10mm guns (nothin' too powerful) wont be a such terrible idea, like givin' Nuka Cola Machines some spare nuka colas, and broken, unusable cars (with the use of Repair) the ability to drop metal parts, or broken motor parts, that can be used to maintain a working car.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Triskaidekaphobe on July 15, 2011, 02:51:25 am
Oh. Well then giving water flasks or 10mm guns (nothin' too powerful) wont be a such terrible idea, like givin' Nuka Cola Machines some spare nuka colas, and broken, unusable cars (with the use of Repair) the ability to drop metal parts, or broken motor parts, that can be used to maintain a working car.

All that sounds great. It would be great if tampering with cars and other objects got you a bit of experience so that levelling up isn't so focused on combat. They would have to have cooldowns to balance them I guess.
Title: Re: Randomness in encouters
Post by: Grommok on August 01, 2011, 10:22:52 am
Well, technically crafting gives some exp, so do first aid and doctor, so why not givin' exp to repair too?