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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: vedaras on January 25, 2010, 07:47:42 pm
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My suggestion would be to split doctors profession into two parts(Like Gunsmith BG and sg): simple doctor and doctor scientist.
Simple doctor would be as normal doctor now, all 3 profession levels would be the same, and same craftable items would stay.
And doctor scientist would level up like this:
1 profession level requirements: IN 7 + First aid 50% + Doctor 40% + Science 80%
Craftable items:
Jet 4x fruits, 3x meat jerky 1x empty jet canister Tools - workbench
Jet Antidote 4x fruits, 1x jet Tools - workbench and big book of science
Doctors Bag 2x metal parts, 1x fiber, 1x Junk Tools - workbench and first aid book
Med Biogel 1x meat jerky 1x wood 1x rot gut Tools - medical terminal and chemistry journals
2 profession level requirements: IN 8 + First aid 65% + Doctor 50% + Science 110 %
Craftable items:
Paramedics Bag 3x metal parts, 3x electronic parts, 3x fiber Tools - medical terminal, first aid book and chemistry journals
Dermal Impact Armor Combat armor Tools - medical terminal, first aid book and big book of science
Phoenix Armor Implants Combat armor Tools - medical terminal, chemistry journals and big book of science
3 lvl profession level requirements IN 10 + First aid 100% + Doctor 80% + Science 140%
Craftable items:
Dermal Impact Assault Enhancement Combat armor Tools - medical terminal, first aid book and big book of science
Phoenix Assault Enhancement Combat armor Tools - medical terminal, chemistry journals and big book of science
For those who dont know what the implants in fallout are: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Gain_combat_implants
How would it work?
Well lets say 2nd level doctor scientist with combat armor go to vault citys medical terminal, selects dermal impact armor on fix boy,
and then fix. He gets implant who would look in inventory like lets say this: http://www.stgfc.com/F2/ot/redmemorymodule.JPG . Now our doctor can sell
the implant or use it hisself. That would look like this, dude with the implant goes to a doctor with "OI" doctor (in Redding, San Francisco or Vault
city) pays nice amount of cash, and iproves his resistance. Implanting yourself 'Dermal Impact Assault Enhancement' or 'Phoenix Assault Enhancement'
would permenantly cost you 1 charisma (drugs like mentats wont work here) and players who have only 1 charisma could not have those implants. And of course
to get implants made with level 3 profession you need to have level 2 implants implanted in you.
Why we need implants?
Well everyone knows that big guns like miniguns are overpowered guns in fonline, because many people dont use armor in wasteland, and those who use
usually use leather jacket or armor so they still suck against miniguns. So overpowered big gunners would be more even to every other profesions
specialists. Another reason is that 99% of killers have 01 charisma, so they wont be enable to get better implants and thus player killing for them
would be more tough task and for the same reason more players would chose now unpopular charisma.
What do you think about alternative doctor professions idea?
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Why can't 1 cha characters get the implant? They are too ugly to be made more ugly?
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Why can't 1 cha characters get the implant? They are too ugly to be made more ugly?
They are not healthy test subjects.
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But they could get some plastic surgery. +CH
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They are not healthy test subjects.
Charisma has nothing to do with health, that's endurance.
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Why can't 1 cha characters get the implant? They are too ugly to be made more ugly?
well imagine player with 1 charisma in real life, i would image one like this: http://www.erichufschmid.net/Dumb-down/super-retard.JPG
lets say that he isnt just bad looking, but has tumor in his head or something that partialy cause that bad look, and planting implants in him would be too dangerous to end his life. And as i said before, all ultimate killers take 01 charisma, and now they would need to take at least 3 thus making their ultimate killing abilties worse.
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Charisma has nothing to do with health, that's endurance.
Aye, but the devs have said that the excuse for some people not talking to you when you have low Charisma is because Charisma also depends on what you look like. You are probably Sloth from the Goonies with 1 Charisma.
(http://www.thelostogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/sloth-goonies.jpg)
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Charisma is a combination of physical attractiveness as well as natural strength of character (not ingame char). Assuming every 1 CHA person is just butt ugly is mis-interpretive, as they could be average, or even physically handsome, but still have the manners and personality of a dog, making them offensive just to stand near and listen to.
And a charisma requirement for IMPLANTS is freakin' stupid. Makes no sense how Charisma has any sort of influence on his personal health. :P
Being able to be reduced to 0 Charisma would be nice to have done in this way. They are unable to talk to many more NPCs, do to the physical disfigurement to their body from the implant they just outright scare normal people. Ghouls would be an obvious choice for ones to still talk to him. Possibly even giving out new quests to their newfound ... fugly brother.
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Low charisma already makes people not want to talk to you
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And a charisma requirement for IMPLANTS is freakin' stupid.
If people with 01 charisma could get implants, and would not lose anything, then the difference between ultimate player killers and others would be even larger and the purpose of my suggestion is to make 01 charisma big gunners less overpowered not more.
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And as roacher say, it could be made that those doctors wouldnt even talk to you if you have 01 charisma thus disabling the implants possibility for 01 charisma players group. But that could be cheater with mentats so i think my primary suggestion is better here.
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Aye, but the devs have said that the excuse for some people not talking to you when you have low Charisma is because Charisma also depends on what you look like. You are probably Sloth from the Goonies with 1 Charisma.
[Sloth]
Ok. Imagine Sloth, with visible implanted armor on him. You don't just not talk to one. You shoot the focker on sigth. That's what 0 CHA should do. And it should resolve in reputation dropping like stone almost everywhere [except maybe broken hills]. Hell, with 1 Cha you probably look like a ghoul and act like a tribal with perspective of a forced bath. With 0 you are like a feral ghoul to others.
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I think the implants should be available to everyone because all it does otherwise is have people waste a point to get cha 2.
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I think the implants should be available to everyone because all it does otherwise is have people waste a point to get cha 2.
well if you want to get 25 skill points per lvl you raise IN to ten, if you want to get implants you raise charisma to 3 whats the problem ? Charisma would just be more usefull, and that is good because it is the most useless skill to many players.
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It's good that its a semi useless attribute, with the current system and lack of gifted dropping it to 1 is the only way to make a decent combat char. Also having 3 cha dropped to 2 is wasting 2 points, thats why I said have 2 cha and then get -1.
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You can hardly even talk to people with 2 Charisma so how you expect to sign up for implants from a Doctor is beyond me.
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It's good that its a semi useless attribute, with the current system and lack of gifted dropping it to 1 is the only way to make a decent combat char. Also having 3 cha dropped to 2 is wasting 2 points, thats why I said have 2 cha and then get -1.
well thats the point: in f2 all skills are equally good depending on what your character is, in fonline they are not, as you say charisma is quite useless, so i think developers should try to make those all stats skills as equal as possible. And implants stuff would be a great step forward to this.
Reconite: you can drug yoursellf with mentats to talk with others :/ so not talking could be easily cheated in this way.
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Using drugs to up your stats isn't really cheating, that's what they are there for. Character's in fonline are pretty gimped to begin with and without mentats you couldn't do the main quests to get to level 5. Without those 5 levels some builds won't ever get anywhere because their starting weapon skills are too low to be effective.
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One thing I'd suggest, seeing as how we're talking about charisma, is that people with horrible charisma (1) can't join parties. If your character is built like a loner, better be prepared to be one.
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Using drugs to up your stats isn't really cheating, that's what they are there for. Character's in fonline are pretty gimped to begin with and without mentats you couldn't do the main quests to get to level 5. Without those 5 levels some builds won't ever get anywhere because their starting weapon skills are too low to be effective.
i know it isnt, butt if the only protection from cha1 characters would be the "npc talk test" they could still past it drugged, so if we are looking for a suggestion that could denie cha 1 characters from getting implants that "talk test" wont work as one.
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Why would having 1cha exclude you from getting this, there is no logical reason. I mean healing powder lowers your PE as a drawback and this has no effect on 1pe chars. Having a stat at 1 is enough of a disadvantage without missing out on upgrades that are the equivalent of an extra perk.
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Why would having 1cha exclude you from getting this, there is no logical reason. I mean healing powder lowers your PE as a drawback and this has no effect on 1pe chars. Having a stat at 1 is enough of a disadvantage without missing out on upgrades that are the equivalent of an extra perk.
2 free statpoints for those who have cha1 compared with those who have bigger would be too great advantage, and as i said before, in this way we try to make others and overpowered cha1 minigunners more even and not, to make them even more overpowered.
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So after wipe they'll have EXACLY same builds, just powered by 2 points in the charisma. I see no point in this everything. Simply, make implants achievable after LONG quest, make implants priceless, costing +999999 caps, make getting implants something special like killing Diablo-quest. Or make it in the way if you choose + INT implant, you CAN'T leave Vault City Faction, you CAN'T be friend of a gang, etc.
Jet for doctors? No, no, no. Make new profession (druggist, 2 levels), expand limit of proffessions to 5, add requierment of doctor [2] to it and then it'll work.
Anti-jet only for druggist [2] and doctor [3] 8)
One thing I'd suggest, seeing as how we're talking about charisma, is that people with horrible charisma (1) can't join parties. If your character is built like a loner, better be prepared to be one.
That won't work. We got radio-channels for making party encounters now.
Get over it. Charisma 1 don't make you cannibal. Maybe people don't like you, don't want to talk with you. OR you just hate the humankind, you won't even try to contact with the others.
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So after wipe they'll have EXACLY same builds, just powered by 2 points in the charisma. I see no point in this everything. Simply, make implants achievable after LONG quest, make implants priceless, costing +999999 caps, make getting implants something special like killing Diablo-quest. Or make it in the way if you choose + INT implant, you CAN'T leave Vault City Faction, you CAN'T be friend of a gang, etc.
Jet for doctors? No, no, no. Make new profession (druggist, 2 levels), expand limit of proffessions to 5, add requierment of doctor [2] to it and then it'll work.
Anti-jet only for druggist [2] and doctor [3] 8)
1. Thats the point, when people will need to add points to charisma, they will take those point from perception endurence or other skills, many characters will be made in less brute bersekers way then they are now, and thats what i am trying to achieve. Yeah i thought about that vault city faction thing, but the problem is that oi doctor is in courty yard not inside vault city, so even if vault city would be the only place for getting inplants you still could get those implanted without being vc citizen.
2. Jet for doctors? No, no, no.?
Let me remind you that doctor troy in vc ivented jet antidote! and doctors renesco and the one in redding deals jet not somekinda druggists or whatever.
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That won't work. We got radio-channels for making party encounters now.
Get over it. Charisma 1 don't make you cannibal. Maybe people don't like you, don't want to talk with you. OR you just hate the humankind, you won't even try to contact with the others.
No, it doesn't make you a cannibal, but it contradicts the character system. Low strength guys can't use guns well, low intelligence guys can't have a lot of skill points, low agility guys can't make aimed shots, low perception guys can't see, low charisma guys can hang around with a party of 9 other players wait what.
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First of all, doctors in fonline aren't the douchebags on ER. Of course they would know how to create drugs, it's part of their profession. As for the current builds being "brute tanks" they are already handicapped by low stat points, taking one more out won't help anyone.
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No, it doesn't make you a cannibal, but it contradicts the character system. Low strength guys can't use guns well, low intelligence guys can't have a lot of skill points, low agility guys can't make aimed shots, low perception guys can't see, low charisma guys can hang around with a party of 9 other players wait what.
I wanted to say THAT won't work:
1 CH - no implants
3 CH - implants allowed
effect:
Powerbuild receives +2 CH at start and +2 points from implants later
point:
no change at all. More SPECIAL points for all. All people have 3CH coz' there's no disadvantage.
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Huh WTF are you talking about? Implant don't add SPECIAL points, they add resistances.
And in fact why have less charsima would make you unable to have an implant? What will change one scar more or less, if you are ugly/scared/asocial?
Maybe the operation would require specials material that can be found in VC if you pay the really expensive cost that allow you to use it (and you have to pay the doctor lvl3 who gonna do your operation and pay the stimpacks, bio med gel, and others materials requires for the operation). And a chance to operation fail (depending of the skill of operator), and you have to restart everything. And you need a special book where the implant are describe... etc...
There can be all this difficulties to have an implant, which would make this hard to do AND realistic.
Also i think this profession really to be improved (she is the hardest and most useless ATM), so it would be cool if this idea be implemanted.
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The implant costs one CA and lowers your stats for 5% dr. It's a pretty fair price for a small upgrade.
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Oh, maybe. Implants, not chips.. Argh.. Tired after work :P ==
Resists.. hmm.. Let's think about it once more. That will make NEW powerbuilds. 2 less intelligence, +10% resists
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The charisma requirement doesn't make any sense game-world-wise. Any doctor is rather used to see disgusting things (so your ugly face wouldn't be impressive) and the opportunity to perform such an operation (plus get paid) would be a chance not to be missed. Therefore, it's a very cheap solution for making people invest in CH and I don't like it. It would make more sense to have implants reduce both CH and AG (or AG alone), since the plates could somewhat limit your movement.
But would it be worth it at all? If you wouldn't want to lose a stat point you would have to get Gain perk. You simply can get better effect with just taking Toughness instead. And even second rank of Lifegiver is already better than Toughness.
And finally, the whole idea with splitting doc profession into two is splitting the hair. Doc is useless as a healer and many craftable drugs are useless too.
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In the latest coments you all forget one point, devs are creating a game as close as possible to f1 and f2, so what are you talking about reducing agility or anything ?
For lvl3 implants you get -1 charisma per each implant in f2, so here should be the same. And if you are with 1 charisma you are not ugly as fuck as i said, but you are ugly like a retard because you have tumor in your head or something, and putting advanced implants in your body would be too dangerous for your ugly unique body, simple. And you say that 2 charisma for "ultimate killer" build would do nothing, well it would do something, take 2 endurence for sake of charisma, you will lose something like 44 hp in the end, take 2 str for the sake of charisma or any other stat, it will make your killing abilities worse. And this is good as we are trying to even all professions, cause now minigunerrs are way overpowerd.
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In the latest coments you all forget one point, devs are creating a game as close as possible to f1 and f2, so what are you talking about reducing agility or anything ?
Because what worked in single player doesn't have to work in multiplayer. Besides, there was no charisma requirement in F2, so there goes your faithfulness to originals.
Second level implants don't have negative sides, so the result will be that everyone will have them. Do we really need that?
As for third level implants, they are pretty much useless the way you presented them.
Following conditions (ALL of them) would have to be met for them to be worth getting:
1. Having Lifegiver perk.
2. Having second Lifegiver perk.
3. Having Toughness perk.
4. Having second Toughness perk.
5. Having >240 HP at level 21, therefore having 10 EN.
If you had met conditions 1-4 and had only 8 EN, you would still be better off with investing two more points in EN instead wasting them on implants.
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Because what worked in single player doesn't have to work in multiplayer. Besides, there was no charisma requirement in F2, so there goes your faithfulness to originals.
Second level implants don't have negative sides, so the result will be that everyone will have them. Do we really need that?
As for third level implants, they are pretty much useless the way you presented them.
Following conditions (ALL of them) would have to be met for them to be worth getting:
1. Having Lifegiver perk.
2. Having second Lifegiver perk.
3. Having Toughness perk.
4. Having second Toughness perk.
5. Having >240 HP at level 21, therefore having 10 EN.
If you had met conditions 1-4 and had only 8 EN, you would still be better off with investing two more points in EN instead wasting them on implants.
Yes in f2 you can have it because you are playing alone, but here we would have a problem, if implants would be available to those who have 01 charisma, everyone would take 01 charisma, because in that way you win 2 free statpoints compared to those who has higher charisma, so that 01 rule is made by me only to make things fair between players.
Yes 2nd lvl implants wouldnt have negative sides, but if we would make their price implant (thus combat armor) and 130k in caps, people would have to chose, if they want them that bad, or they will buy a base instead a car or wahtever. Of course they should be available only for those who are advanced in game (by amount of materials).
Well, first of all there are no such thing as implants or doctor scientist profession, but if it would be still, noone is holding a gun in your head and telling you to buy those implants.
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And you say that 2 charisma for "ultimate killer" build would do nothing, well it would do something, take 2 endurence for sake of charisma, you will lose something like 44 hp in the end, take 2 str for the sake of charisma or any other stat, it will make your killing abilities worse. And this is good as we are trying to even all professions, cause now minigunerrs are way overpowerd.
Or I'll just take 2 from INT, get 3 CHA, get slightly smaller FA skill and, aside from my usual 240+ HP get additional 10% damage res making me even harder to kill. And that's to do what - nerf the damage of BGs? That's already done, minigun deals 30 damage to people with Metal Mk2 (which is the standard, you don't see people fighting in leathers or bluesuits - everyone uses Metal Mk2++ not to come off as a cheap whore and an insult to his/her team), LSW is better by a slight margin. Avenger still works but is hard to get, bazooka never was that awesome. Laser Rifles are next to useless and require a lot of shots to kill someone if you don't get really lucky with a nerfed crit, Sniper Rifles are the same - and you want to "rebalance" the game by increasing armor resistances? What game have you been playing dude? Cause you've obviously missed PvP in FO2238.
As a side note, we're gradually moving towards a game where all guns are basically toys making a lot of noise and very little damage while requiring shitload of precious ammo to work. When you have to spend 2 hours in order to spend 5 minutes fighting then something is obviously wrong with the combat system. The only weapon that actually works well right now is the plasma grenade - and that my friends indeed does suck.
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Or I'll just take 2 from INT, get 3 CHA, get slightly smaller FA skill and, aside from my usual 240+ HP get additional 10% damage res making me even harder to kill. And that's to do what - nerf the damage of BGs? That's already done, minigun deals 30 damage to people with Metal Mk2 (which is the standard, you don't see people fighting in leathers or bluesuits - everyone uses Metal Mk2++ not to come off as a cheap whore and an insult to his/her team), LSW is better by a slight margin. Avenger still works but is hard to get, bazooka never was that awesome. Laser Rifles are next to useless and require a lot of shots to kill someone if you don't get really lucky with a nerfed crit, Sniper Rifles are the same - and you want to "rebalance" the game by increasing armor resistances? What game have you been playing dude? Cause you've obviously missed PvP in FO2238.
As a side note, we're gradually moving towards a game where all guns are basically toys making a lot of noise and very little damage while requiring shitload of precious ammo to work. When you have to spend 2 hours in order to spend 5 minutes fighting then something is obviously wrong with the combat system. The only weapon that actually works well right now is the plasma grenade - and that my friends indeed does suck.
Totally agreed. Messing with resists will cripple the game.
I LOVE Fallout for the reason of a lucky bastard with Desert Eagle can critically shot enemy for 90HP and knock him down unconcious. You know what do I hate MOST in 90% of MMO RPG? Characters having 54345646545436 HP, 23456346677 MANA, dealing 123 damage for each attack. It's simply BORING. And kinda unrealistic.