fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Hydro on November 14, 2010, 08:56:30 pm
-
The point of this thread is to make an agreement among gangs taking part in Town Control (TC) and about Role Playing (RP).
As most of us probably know, the quarrel "to RP or not to RP in Controlled Towns?" has been started by Redding case.
Now, the sceptic part of gangs will ask: "why the hell do we need those ugly roleplayers in our towns?!".
So, the answer is simple: the profit.
There is a lot of advantages from having roleplayers in your town:
a) if you let them, they will make marketplace (just like NCR Bazaar) which you can control and take your part of its income
b) do you need some super stims, psycho or other craftable shit but you're to lazy to gather resources by yourself? Now it's not a problem, put it on yours town "task board" and let roleplayers to get it for you, just for some caps
c) put a guard on the entrance in mining site and start gaining 1/4 or 1/2 of all digged ores (you got ores, roleplayer got protection)
And this is just a beggining - your creating vision is your friend!
Now, if you seems to be interested, lets talk about some rules here:
a) min. 1/2 of city income (footlocker content) should be spend for roleplaying aims (like guards, militia, events)
b) protection of players (don't let them kill each other for no reasons, etc.)
So, if you agree with that and you're willing to make it in some towns, hold on a while!
If you really want to have so fancy easy and big profit in your town, you should put your "RP Idea for Town" on forum and let the roleplayers for if they like it or not.
If there will be more than one gang willing to put RP project in same town, roleplayers should vote on forum which one they like more
Watch out, anti-RP gangs!
We have our "Alpha anti anti-RP Team" which will take your town if you wont put RP project in it, make it "none" and let the RP gang control it!
Second thing- it must be conversation, not stupid flame between gangs, so please think before you start flaming
-
There is a lot of advantages from having roleplayers in your town:
a) if you let them, they will make marketplace (just like NCR Bazaar) which you can control and take your part of its income
b) do you need some super stims, psycho or other craftable shit but you're to lazy to gather resources by yourself? Now it's not a problem, put it on yours town "task board" and let roleplayers to get it for you, just for some caps
c) put a guard on the entrance in mining site and start gaining 1/4 or 1/2 of all digged ores (you got ores, roleplayer got protection)
Yeah yeah, how its simple... but you forgot that THEY DON"T WANT TO HAVE UGLY ROLEPLAYERS in city.
The problem is with players - they will make profit woithout taking them to making bazar or other sh*t, they will make money on other thing - they don't need them - you just can only whine about bad ugly players who are kids, whose won't allow anyone to play normally.
You forgot thaht the game was made to be a Fallout MMO "aka Faction mod" so its about PvP not a roleplay.
You can just play RP in close group.
Sorry but its not "able" to made by players.
-
Yeah yeah, how its simple... but you forgot that THEY DON"T WANT TO HAVE UGLY ROLEPLAYERS in city.
The problem is with players - they will make profit woithout taking them to making bazar or other sh*t, they will make money on other thing - they don't need them - you just can only whine about bad ugly players who are kids, whose won't allow anyone to play normally.
You forgot thaht the game was made to be a Fallout MMO "aka Faction mod" so its about PvP not a roleplay.
You can just play RP in close group.
Sorry but its not "able" to made by players.
No, only you have problem with paranoia.
To topic, you wrote good points. Agree
-
No, only you have problem with paranoia.
Show me at least one city working with this system for over 2 - 3 months ? None ? Owwww how its sad.
It can't be done in big group - you must realize that you can only DO RP in closed groups.
There will be always someone who will destroy it.
-
Why roleplayers should focused in unguarded cities? Or there are plenty of locations that could be used, but they dont have a flag.
-
Why roleplayers should focused in unguarded cities? Or there are plenty of locations that could be used, but they dont have a flag.
Why not? Unguarded cities are ready to use for people, not for ghosts and NPCs. Why should we use locations like Mariposa, where is nothing than rocks and sand if we have ready to use towns?
-
You dont realize that its not the roleplayers that are the issue. Its a matter of some kind of agreement between the major forces that are capable to take the town- now its the Rogues, CS and TTTLA+VSB. Its not neccesary to let the roleplayers decide, because its not roleplayers that can ruin such project.On the other hands, the pvp gangs are capable of that. One city for Rogues, one for CS and one for us-its that simple (and yet difficult, but thats another story).
you can only DO RP in closed groups.
Its not about RP, its about P. Bringing the life into the cities, let the player hang out there instead of bases, let them trade there and fight some small scale raiders. Thats whats it about, not some real RP.
-
You dont realize that its not the roleplayers that are the issue. Its a matter of some kind of agreement between the major forces that are capable to take the town- now its the Rogues, CS and TTTLA+VSB. Its not neccesary to let the roleplayers decide, because its not roleplayers that can ruin such project.On the other hands, the pvp gangs are capable of that. One city for Rogues, one for CS and one for us-its that simple (and yet difficult, but thats another story).
Its not about RP, its about P. Bringing the life into the cities, let the player hang out there instead of bases, let them trade there and fight some small scale raiders. Thats whats it about, not some real RP.
I have realized that agreement between gangs is essential, but RP is something that makes reason for coming to towns
-
Well, the fact that I can chat with people, that I can make safe deals, buy mercs and craft , that I can mine in HQ mine is enough for a lot of players. Sure, some roleplay is nice, but even those basic things would do the trick.
-
I dont realize one thing. If you want to populate cities, why not lend city houses to players. They can use them like tents, hotel rooms, but for longer time (if they are active = until end of the era).
They will have a obligation to have minimal reputation in that location (i.e. 1500), any major drop will cause expatriation. If this players would be located in that city, they will more communicate among each other, and they could create their own roleplay project based on their domicile. I can imagne that they will have right to tag red some players and de facto make those players hostile for limited time.
Of course this could be abusable, but realize, that after wipe, major PvP gangs always concentrate on creating new base, crafters, pvp chars so they dont have time to raising reputation in city like Modoc.
If the community already exist, it could create relation among PvP gangs and city communities.
-
Personaly, I prefer to fight for a good reason, not just to take a town to bore my ennemies or to piss off some random guy I don't know. And role playing in a guarded town is pointless, in my opinion, cause you're not free (you can't do anything except rob, talk, or trade).
So, yeah, I think it's a good idea. We (orphans, then TTTLA) did some basic role play in ungarded towns, and it was fun. Unfortunately, most of people on this server are here for PvP only, or think role play is impossible because of games mechanics.
Problem is Town Control : it's made for PvP, but can be used for Role playing, and make it more interesting than in guarded towns. So this "RP vs anti-RP war" will never end...
Unless we find a compromise. O split our Community in two. But it would suck.
Like you may know, we are about to start our project in Redding, when we will be able to take it back. Dunno if it will work or not, but at least we will try to have fun and to give some fun to people who like the Fallout universe, which is about war, but not only...
-
Now, if you seems to be interested, lets talk about some rules here:
a) min. 1/2 of city income (footlocker content) should be spend for roleplaying aims (like guards, militia, events)
b) protection of players (don't let them kill each other for no reasons, etc.)
We (TTTLA) have thought about giving all the caps of TC to the merchants of the town to attract people. I think every gang controling a town should have its own commercial rules.
Personaly, I prefer to fight for a good reason, not just to take a town to bore my ennemies or to piss off some random guy I don't know. And role playing in a guarded town is pointless, in my opinion, cause you're not free (you can't do anything except rob, talk, or trade).
+1
We need raiders and evil people in the gang but they should have the possibility to do true "raider roleplay" and not just kill kill kill people in a Counter Strike way...
Roleplay is not only about talking and trade with players, PvP roleplay also exists.
-
The game itself has to encourage roleplay. I don't want to play farmer in modoc or travelling trader if farming encounters makes me rich faster.
As long as players do not share the same desires as the npcs do according to fallout background story, you can't expect good roleplay to take place.
-
when you try welcome a stranger to the town, all you get is bullet in your head... its been said before, and now im continuing.
-
Main thing preventing roleplay aint gang wars and tc. It is that random guy with cyrilic name killing everyone in town and then leaving. Thats the man everyone is afraid of in unguarded cities.
-
pessimism seems to be a big problem too.
I know that there are assholes who shoot you if you stand peacefully at town entrance and hang out, but i met more nice people than the "burst to the face as greeting"-ones.
Find those nice people, get to know them. Tell them they're safe here. Give them equipment when needed. Tell them the rules of the towns. Tell them who are troublemakers and raiders. Only like this you can become more and more good people and the bad guys coming to your town wont have a chance anymore (except they are some minigun-metalarmor-gang-lololo-we-pwn-bluesuits-killsquad)
This game, as every other fullLoot openPvP game, gives out a teaching to people who explore it theirselves. It turns you into a primitive person guided by egoistic thought of survival. If you would care less about virtual wealth and more about player friendly relationships we could have bigger ingame communities. The way it is like now every guy who doesnt check the forums or irc will enter such towns like a scared rat and not like someone seeking for companions.
You need to build up a reputation for a town and for a community. Not so much pessimism and more help into building it up. I tried building things up myself but its pretty much impossible for only 1 person. If everyone would appreciate and support such player driven towns they would grow into something big in no-time. but nobody believes in such things, they all go "OMG i will get killed" "OH NOES *insert-gangname-here* will sure destroy this" "WAAAARG i will loose all my stuff" "SIGH This will never go good".
-
Main thing preventing roleplay aint gang wars and tc. It is that random guy with cyrilic name killing everyone in town.
To remove fear from the towns, they have to be secured from both pk loners and from Big Three. The only way to do that is some kind of arrangment. If the big gang is present in the city, the ammount of attacks from little groups is minimalized to some occasional raids, which can never do any serious harm.
The game itself has to encourage roleplay.
This isnt about roleplaying in this kind of way. Nobody in the Broken Hills actualy roleplay some farmer(as far as I know). Its a way how to get some normal players out of NCR and from caves to do trades, crafting and hunting and talking in those cities. Eventualy, there will be bigger playerbase, which potentialy means more betatesters which means better game, filled with more content.
EDIT: Bring back NC! It didnt stopped big alliances, it made consequences for actions almost non existent and it makes such project harder.
-
One problem with random pks in unsafe towns is that they are unrecognizable sometimes. When it comes to random people, it's impossible to know whether someone has targetted me and is on the way to shoot me in the eyes or if he's about to say hi.
In reality I should be able to see when someone is rising his gun and starting to point it at my direction. And even when he starts to shoot, it's no way guaranteed that the first goddamn shot is going to actually hit.
This isnt about roleplaying in this kind of way. Nobody in the Broken Hills actualy roleplay some farmer(as far as I know). Its a way how to get some normal players out of NCR and from caves to do trades, crafting and hunting and talking in those cities. Eventualy, there will be bigger playerbase, which potentialy means more betatesters which means better game, filled with more content.
So be it. But who are we players supposed to roleplay as?
Find those nice people, get to know them. Tell them they're safe here. Give them equipment when needed. Tell them the rules of the towns. Tell them who are troublemakers and raiders. Only like this you can become more and more good people and the bad guys coming to your town wont have a chance anymore (except they are some minigun-metalarmor-gang-lololo-we-pwn-bluesuits-killsquad)
While I'm helping these friendly people, my enemies are gathering strength by farming shops and encounters, buying mercs, cars and bases, deploying tents and eventually launching unstoppable raid against my peaceful charity community. Even if we might stand a chance against some random solo pks, the rumours of resistance will spread and eventually the minigun-lololol-metalarmor dudes will appear just for the lulz of it.
-
So be it. But who are we players supposed to roleplay as?
You dont have to roleplay. You just have to play. Look at the players coming to BH. Before I was banished from there, I saw people coming to shops, to mine to craft. Would you call that a roleplay? Other day, I saw same guy talking with the guards, enjoying the game, he was armed and happy, he knew some people, he had a place to stay safely. The game was more fun both for that guy and for the guard, which would instead run through some wasted city, desperate to find some bluesuit.
As for the recognition of PKs...Bring back the NC!
-
Look at the players coming to BH. Before I was banished from there, I saw people coming to shops, to mine to craft. Would you call that a roleplay?
No. I'd call it metagaming. People do it because the game encourages them to. Roleplay is about stepping in the shoes of wasteland-dweller. The very first reason why this can't work is that nobody's afraid to die.
Other day, I saw same guy talking with the guards, enjoying the game, he was armed and happy, he knew some people, he had a place to stay safely. The game was more fun both for that guy and for the guard, which would instead run through some wasted city, desperate to find some bluesuit.
Maybe the guard was just bored and decided to try something else. Surely his history was full of hoarding and killing but since he had everything, it was no use to blast the other player at the moment. If he didn't control the town or have his tent packed with BAs I bet he'd be out somewhere farming encounters or robbing other players.
As for the recognition of PKs...Bring back the NC!
And implement npc factions. Then we can have some real enemies who we can rightfully shoot on sight.
-
Metagaming is not only about robbing, but trade and caps- so yes it is possible to create RP, but pesimissm is too big in some cases
Just as reminder: please understand that this topic isn't just proposal of behaving for gangs. Did you read about those "alpha team"?
This is thread to lazy gangs which want only PvP.
Want towns? Make RP project and post it on forum or your town will be taken by our commandos and given to more intelligent gang.
-
i believe that northen towns should look like BHH more or less, thats the ideal i believe, but with diffrent factions. I think that game engine should encourange such things as much as possible like i stated in another thread ( http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=10853.0 (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=10853.0) ). Otherwise the cities will just be points to take, an empty points practically, just some NPCs changing the name of the ownership now and then, only name, nothing else.
What game has set up right now though the game system, is a capture the flag pvp game. Thats what the game is set up for currently. There is little set up/fixes for RP in towns. The Raider roleplaying factions are the ones in control of the towns, when raiding factions (often the ones that only are in for the cash) dont care about the towns themselves (makes sense, Raider is a raider). Factions cant really do anything with the towns, they cant adjust militia, they cant manipulate things like taxes. And overally the whole thing is a mess, many things are not regulated ingame aswell, without ingame regulations there is little control and so, it looks like it currently does, Ghost towns.
Another ideas Devs could make use of would be if controlling faction had one vendor whom they could control 100%. They give him stuff for sale and maybe even adjust the prices. The Vendor would also have to clearly say to the wastelander he's dealing with that he represent this or that faction, so new players wont be confused by strange prices this might produce.
Either way, the less things are set up outside the game, the less the game have values to use and devs to manipulate towards a goal they decide themselves.
-
Just as reminder: please understand that this topic isn't just proposal of behaving for gangs. Did you read about those "alpha team"?
This is thread to lazy gangs which want only PvP.
Want towns? Make RP project and post it on forum or your town will be taken by our commandos and given to more intelligent gang.
I thought you wanted some constructive discussion, this sound like completly out of place. Keep that to faction announcment, or you will have another useless flamed topic.
-
I thought you wanted some constructive discussion, this sound like completly out of place. Keep that to faction announcment, or you will have another useless flamed topic.
Actually that one was statement someone that is helping me with creating things, but he isn't able to write on forum.
Second thing is that something must be done- and not only voice from vsb, but from other gangs. I would like to see other gangs like ttla or rogues opinion
EDIT: About that don't worry I would rather hold fire/guns to make something constructive than shooting all around- if compromise will be accepted we will help with controlling towns
-
The very first reason why this can't work is that nobody's afraid to die.
Nobody is afraid but when it happens everybody is angry :D
I agree about a thing with Avv : games mechanics should encourage roleplay. As I said, roleplay is not only consisting about talking with other players. Roleplay is...playing a role :D . In a MMORPG it is about playing a role in a world where other people still continue to live and to do things even if you are not connected.
The main problem is there is no mechanics about interaction with other players other than killing and trading (ho yes there is the bunker quest where you need to gather some people...). So players have to create their own politics. Where is the NCR ? The Brotherhood of Steel ? Vault-City and other factions ? How a small gang of 20 people could control half of California ?
-
One of the main problem I see is players even in the same team are not united. There are players that are for such project, there are players that doesnt care, as long as they get their pvp and there are players that are for globe scale war and no compromise. And then there are personal issues between the gangs and their members, which are not making it easier. Just look at the current topic in the gang issues :).
As for the roleplay, thats something that most of the players wont do.
-
One of the main problem I see is players even in the same team are not united. There are players that are for such project, there are players that doesn't care, as long as they get their pvp and there are players that are for globe scale war and no compromise. And then there are personal issues between the gangs and their members, which are not making it easier. Just look at the current topic in the gang issues Smiley.
As for the roleplay, thats something that most of the players wont do.
This is life... and this is what happens when players got too much liberty in a game : almost everything is depending on relationship between players (it should be about relationship between characters) or time-to-spend on the game or what-is-fun-for-me-and-not-for-you...
Players should have more restraints but it seems that Devs still don't understand that they spend a lot of time working on this game and they have the right to restraint players if they want.
-
If may I ask what is opinion of TTLA and Rogues about this idea?
-
You know, TTTLA is not an entity so we have different opinions. I am one of TTTLA and you got my opinion.
-
Like Pozzo said, every member of our gang (TTTLA) has his own opinion about Role playing in Northern Towns, but as I already told you, we are about to start this kind of project in Redding, so I think I can say TTTLA approve RP Projects in Controlled Towns.
But I'm not sure every major gang would like to do the same, most of them are fighting since more than one year without any reason, for the sake of PvP, it would be hard to change their mind.
-
Let me say a few words.
If this RP project, as you call it, would be really RP, I'd support it (I know TTTLA 'doesn't need my support' and all that crap).
The problem with BH project is that it is not RP. Bunch of players, armed, standing on the main entrance waiting for enemies to come.
I've been there so many times, on many different characters, but i never seen any RP.
If people would really play a role of a wastelander/brahminlover/whatever, i'd support it. Just don't make RP an execuse.
-
Main thing is:
Roleplaying involves that you play a characters role, i.e. a farmer, guard, city bum etc. and really get inside this character.
I often see spontaneous roleplay in this game. As for example when A.Maniac spotted me in Modoc when i had the farmer model and he called me "gramps" and wanted all my money or he would kill me. After giving him all my stuff he and his buddys (even hubertus) kinda protected me "as i payed tribute to the town holders". We talked IC all this time.
But those acts of roleplay blur together with the actual metagaming as there are no roleplaying rules. 15 Minutes later there were other guys in town who didnt say anything but started shooting (oh shi- CS! *bang bang* - i guess).
So the game itself should have increased metagaming sources in unprotected towns. Roleplay emerges out of metagaming as it is only entertaining as long as you can do a lot of things. Im an old RP fan in other games as for example "The Specialists" where specialized RP Servers exist. I think we could transfer some of the ideas these RP-mods have into this game if we would have enouff players and options. (i.e. a criminal gang in Broken Hills that acts in the shadows with robbery, thievery and drug dealing. As opposed the BHH could assign players to do "police work" acting as counter-unit to the criminals. such things add in-depth of gaming possibilities and if worked out nice, they are very much fun to play.
But: as long as there are players who arent into RP or even dont know what RP in games is anyway you will be disrupted quite often or at worse case, put down due to gunfire.
Another but:Sadly we dont have enough players willing to do such things, or they are just afraid that such things will never go right because of outside disturbance/player motivation/whole organization.
-
Nobody is afraid but when it happens everybody is angry :D
What I mean is that people don't protect their lives but their stuff. The price of life is only measured by the equipment you lose. If you lose less stuff than your enemy, but you die and he doesn't, it can be considered a victory. Because of this we got retarded activity like bombing, shop-shooting, alt-scouting, alt-looting... you name it. In all of those cases the player puts his char in a situation where no wastelander would put himself. If the game was character-centered instead of item-centered we'd got much rational gameplay going on. Chars are simply objects to gain or defend our items, while it should be the other way around: items should be the objects which defend our lives and help us to advance.
But: as long as there are players who arent into RP or even dont know what RP in games is anyway you will be disrupted quite often or at worse case, put down due to gunfire.
It doesn't matter whether someone is into role play or not. All what matters is that whether the game encourages us to act like real wastelanders or not. If everyone acts like real wastelanders, then it's up to players whether they want to roleplay because everyone acts like they are roleplaying anyway.
Encouring the "right" activity can be done by either rewarding and punishing from various actions or restricting players from doing certain stuff. I guess most mmos simply restrict players (not possible to kill everything, no full loot) but that's not the option for fonline, since full freedom is how we roll. So to achieve the state when meta-gaming and roleplaying fuse is to encourage and punish.
But first there's got to be something that all players want and don't want. It can't be only the items because items can be moved from char to another and abused in various ways. Let's say what everyone should be after was life and what they should not want was death. This way we've got a guideline which everyone wanted to follow and by rewarding correct activity with life and wrong activity with death it is possible to encourage players to act like roleplayers even if they don't even know they are role-playing.
-
I often see spontaneous roleplay in this game. As for example when A.Maniac spotted me in Modoc when i had the farmer model and he called me "gramps" and wanted all my money or he would kill me. After giving him all my stuff he and his buddys (even hubertus) kinda protected me "as i payed tribute to the town holders". We talked IC all this time.
But those acts of roleplay blur together with the actual metagaming as there are no roleplaying rules. 15 Minutes later there were other guys in town who didnt say anything but started shooting (oh shi- CS! *bang bang* - i guess).
True RP could only work with people who are not into PvP.
BTW. I am A. Moniac. Yes, it's o, instead of a. ;)
-
True RP could only work with people who are not into PvP.
Thats simply not true. ::)
PVP should not interfere with RP. In meaning, PVP should be based on RP. Those things should support eachother, work as one, not as two diffrent things in same world.
-
Thats linked with what avv said, ktt.
The "cost" of RP, is the deal with death.
PvP would have to accept this price.
That mean PvPer taking real risk...
I have tried some project to bring a bit more life on the server, as jobs offer for various player level.
But each time I failed one the same point, the lack of sense at the End, for my "workers".
There, current game mechanic is the major limit.
This lack of "sense" come from the lack of "need", mostly.
-
well, Hydro, i wanna bend to you, you are a new part of a revolution
i think that players are better guards then those STUPID BOTS THAT PROTECT THEIFS WHIT HIGH SKILL AND THAT KILL YOU IF YOU GOT A GUN UNHOLSTERED AND NEVER BRING YOUR STUFF BACK(that was for devs)so i suport you
let me start a (
in my noob days i sticked a lot in guarded towns, but i soon realiezed that where easy targets for theifs, lost a fuck load of stuff to theifs.
the unguarded towns were allmoast allways fill by PKs, so i was not visiting them to much
when i first created Lag_Master i moved in Den, and there was perfect, got caps, got safety(relatively) and learned to survive in unguarded towns
after that my pre-wipe ex faction recruited me and learned me to make combat builds like SniperLag, ZaLag and future Lag1337
affter leaving them i learned to live on my own, but after this wipe i had the oportunity to become a hardoce RPer, i am still learnig, but i am happy
) end of greay imaginary oval memory
@topic: i suport you Hydra, RPers need more respect!!!!
-
PVP should not interfere with RP. In meaning, PVP should be based on RP. Those things should support eachother, work as one, not as two diffrent things in same world.
Exactly. There just has to be one cake everybody is after. Pvp dudes are after pvp and dominance over others, rp players want some imaginary events, hoarders want to hoard even if they don't know why. Set one goal for everybody and there's no more pvp, rp or crafting, just playing the game.
-
I used to play on RP server of Newer winter Nights. RP was there mostly during events. But here we have virtually no events or only silly ones like shooting hordes of npcs with free stuff without any real reward. No surprise that GMs are getting bored.
-
I used to play on RP server of Newer winter Nights. RP was there mostly during events. But here we have virtually no events or only silly ones like shooting hordes of npcs with free stuff without any real reward. No surprise that GMs are getting bored.
Hey my friend ! :D
I used to play to Neverwinter Nights for years too but you can't compare these two games :
Neverwinter Nigths : almost all servers were PvE servers so you can roleplay with other players
FOnline : server is based on PvP and fight between factions
I used to play for a long time on a PvP server of Neverwinter Nights and there was no roleplay on it :/