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[kttdestroyer]

Staying close to originals, rephase:

As for turning a Turn-based game into a Real-time one, i believe currently it has been implemented backwards. I will try to explain what i mean with this.

Turnbased system is to represent a time phase of the battle, lets assume each of this phase is to represent 10 seconds of battle (AP). In this time of 10 seconds, each of players/NPCs in the battle is to do their 10 second part after eachother. But, intentionally, one participant of the battle 10 seconds, are the same seconds of a second participants 10 seconds even if they are moving after eachother, it is still the same phase. Meaning, each of participants movements are happening simultaneously in theory, represented in phases in a turnbased system.

However, how it looks now, the time has been removed to a big part, and only becomes in use after first AP usage (when they reload) and even then they are only working one way (to load your instant ability to fire). The turnbased mode is turned into a instant turnbased mode, it is a turnbased mode without turn stoppage, i believe, it is not a working real time system, but more like broken turnbased system that we currently have. To add, and i do not want to hurt anyones feeling, only explaining, that if one want to convert something and keeping the same spirit then i believe he has to understand the base idea behind the first thing.


Simpler Mechanic Idea:

An easier way to implement this would be to instead of having starting AP, to have no starting AP, and from there what ever action character chooses the AP loads to the corresponding action. The speed of AP loading would be dependant on total amount of AP (like now). (This might be usefull if one wants to do a try out).

Medic, what?

You mean those power builds with 250 HP, 200 skill+ in BG and the rest in Doc & Med? Yeah. That's cool.

I believe such thing is easly regulated by setting a doc skill required for usage of Doctor bag (or making it effective only if 100%+, which would make sense, one has to know what to do with the stuff in it). If someone really wants to play a medic that is, i wouldint.

[kttdestroyer]

I just started to play at Hinkley and after few days, my experience from it (beside previous TC experience). I can say that the ultimate build is 250 hp big gunner with a rocket and that says it all about how simple the combat system is i am afraid.

[VongJin]

Game is not that simple as u think. There is no ultimate builds it's all about how skilled  u are  and how skilled your team members.

[OskaRus]

I just started to play at Hinkley and after few days, my experience from it (beside previous TC experience). I can say that the ultimate build is 250 hp big gunner with a rocket and that says it all about how simple the combat system is i am afraid.

Man u rly are getting intimidated by those guys. Try shooting them twice with plasma in the eyes within one second and listen to their melted body how they swear. xD

[avv]

it's all about how skilled  u are  and how skilled your team members.

Oh yeah? Then I'd like to see the player who manages to totally dominate in pvp with this build: http://www.nitue.net/fcp/ load public "mr.skills"

By your logic VongJin, you should be able to use that build to defeat less-skilled enemies with powerbuild chars.

And what comes to teamwork, even if you had 100 of players who played with that build, they still would lose to a dude who had enough ammo to shoot you all.

[Cha]

Sorry to but be rude avv but, what a stupid exemple... how a non-combat char is supposed to kill anything ? ...  

And for skills for pvp, its absolutley clear that its not that simple as some of these posts mention... being a noob with a good powerbuild will save you from time to time but will loose in the end... moreover in gangVSgang fights...

[VongJin]

Oh yeah? Then I'd like to see the player who manages to totally dominate in pvp with this build: http://www.nitue.net/fcp/ load public "mr.skills"

By your logic VongJin, you should be able to use that build to defeat less-skilled enemies with powerbuild chars.

And what comes to teamwork, even if you had 100 of players who played with that build, they still would lose to a dude who had enough ammo to shoot you all.

Dude your post is senseless(butthurt?). your mr.skills build have nothing common with PVP. it's a simple crafting alt.

You wanted to show your intelligence, but showed your stupidity and no ability to engage in dialogue.

[avv]

Sorry to but be rude avv but, what a stupid exemple... how a non-combat char is supposed to kill anything ? ... 

Who says whats non-combat char? Isn't fighting everyman's right? It's not even stupid example. VongJin said: There is no ultimate builds it's all about how skilled  u are  and how skilled your team members.

So if there is no ultimate build, and it's all about skill, then doesn't he exactly mean that no matter the build, more skilled player wins?

And for skills for pvp, its absolutley clear that its not that simple as some of these posts mention... being a noob with a good powerbuild will save you from time to time but will loose in the end... moreover in gangVSgang fights...

I never said that more experienced players haven't got some aces in their sleeves, it's obvious. I just wanted to point out that build is the key factor when it comes to winning a fight. Skill only starts to take place when both sides got equal builds.

Dude your post is senseless(butthurt?). your mr.skills build have nothing common with PVP. it's a simple crafting alt.

You wanted to show your intelligence, but showed your stupidity and no ability to engage in dialogue.

You said yourself it's all about player's skills, not build. I questioned that, isn't it called normal dialogue?

[Crazy]

Who says whats non-combat char? Isn't fighting everyman's right? It's not even stupid example. VongJin said: There is no ultimate builds it's all about how skilled  u are  and how skilled your team members.

You were talking about a big gun RL. He was talking about kind of build (small gun sniper, big gun burster, big gun RL, laser sniper, plasma tank etc...), not about build itself. He was obviously thinking only at optimized combat build. He say that all kind of optimized builds are equal, and skill make the difference.
And I agree with him, tough a bit of luck have to been taken into account. Also, due to constant balancing, some are a bit over the other (foe plasma tank when plasma was firing at 30hex, and now big gun are a bit under other because of nerf), but skill still influe enough to give you victory if you play well.

[Cha]

Who says whats non-combat char? Isn't fighting everyman's right? It's not even stupid example. VongJin said: There is no ultimate builds it's all about how skilled  u are  and how skilled your team members.

Oh come on avv, saying that there is no ultimate build doesnt mean that all builds are equal... Useless to say (seems not) that if your build is pure shit for fight (like the the one in your link) you will do shit ...

Anyway for topic issue, pvp (moreover in groups) its far from easy click... and im really not sure "everyone" has mastered it and then justify that we need more complicated new features

[avv]

So there we have it: build is the key factor when it comes to victory, skill cannot overcome better build. When both sides have similar builds, the skill starts to matter. This is what I wanted to see acknowledged, nothing else.

In this paragraph lies the biggest flaw in our pvp. It doesn't matter what kind of build is in question, it is still controlled by another player. This build may still get into fight with another player who has better build. Just because the another player has better build, why does he deserve a victory? If in normal pvp with powerbuilds the more skilled wins, why doesn't this add to all fighting? Making a build doesn't take skill so it shouldn't provide rewards that skill would normally provide: a victory.
There is no other way to influence players than fighting, so a bad combat build cannot pay back in any way no matter how skilled its player is. He cannot compensate his lack of fighting abilities with briliant repair, for example.

[John Ryder]

Build depends on the skill. If you are experienced and you know what you are doing you will probably make yourself better build than someone who plays for a month or never been in any gang. Thus skill depends on the fight's outcome.

[Crazy]

Even without a perfectly optimized build, with good skill and strategy, you can win against a powerbuild. But it's obvious that you have better chance with better build. But I agree with John Ryder, build is part of skill. In Starcraft strategy is and good micro/macro management is skill. In Quake, fast reflexes, great accuracy, know when you need what weapon is skill. Here, make a good char is part of skill with tacticts.

[avv]

Build depends on the skill. If you are experienced and you know what you are doing you will probably make yourself better build than someone who plays for a month or never been in any gang. Thus skill depends on the fight's outcome.

What if this build was made by someone else? Anyone can just copy each other's builds and that's whats going all the time.

But all the same, you make a build only once but play with it the rest of the gaming time. So saying that the skill and experience invested in build should grant similar benefits as skill normally does, is the same thing as saying that headshots in some fps game should always be scored if you did it once.

Even without a perfectly optimized build, with good skill and strategy, you can win against a powerbuild. But it's obvious that you have better chance with better build. But I agree with John Ryder, build is part of skill. In Starcraft strategy is and good micro/macro management is skill. In Quake, fast reflexes, great accuracy, know when you need what weapon is skill. Here, make a good char is part of skill with tacticts.

The difference between fonline, quake and starcraft skill investments is that in sc and quake player is constantly challenged to do better. In fonline you only need to do this investment once, if you even do it and you will receive rewards for the rest of the gaming time against weaker builds. Add that kind of system in quake or sc and you got a broken game.
Fonline is still slightly about micromanagement, we manage only one char. That's the skill needed in powerbuild pvp. So because I said earlier that adding build-creating system over startcraft would break the game, isn't fonline already broken if it's a mix of build creating and micromanagement?

[VongJin]

ok last touch and i'm done here:

1)lets take a poor one day newby with  BA+avenger+ RL+2 SS 220% BG 150% FA and 110 doc and lets say 240 hp(BG powerbuild)

2)lets take pro player with metal armor + avenger+RL +2 ss 160%bg 100 FA and 80 doc and 170 hp(unfinished regular bg build with 3 cha and for exmpl no brd at all)

3) dumping them in Hinkley Battlezone 1vs1 and making bets.

I will bet for pro player coz:
He will use tactics, not just random shooting.
He will have better screen aim and reaction.
He will always use cover.
He will burst at point blank coz he knows what it have x3 dmg mod.
He will use RL at medium range and avenger at close combat.
Pro player knows his own weak sides and strong sides and he can  turn it  both for advantage.

There is some % of luck in every battle for sure because of SPECIAL in this system we need to roll 15-20 even for successful breath.
But still... skill takes main part in PvP combat.