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[kttdestroyer]

Lets assume that in pvp combat every AP usage would be equal to amount of seconds of firing time. So, if one makes an action that costs 10 ap, it would take him 5 seconds, if an action that cost 5 ap then it would take him 2.5 second. Meaning, burst of a minigun costs 7 AP which would mean 3.5 seconds, an eye shot with a sniper costs 8 AP and would take 4 seconds to fire and so on.

Ofcourse the numbers are taken out of a hat, i am just trying to make the idea clear not the acual balance (3-4 secs might be too much, but that is probobly hard to tell straight away). What would this change in PVP gameplay? Personally, i believe it would have impact on tactics, slowering the combat and boosting tactics over weapons and builds.


Each kind of build would have its own more defined role in combat:

Sniper would be most effective on very long distances (how a sniper is suppose to be?), but would be weak on medium and very weak on short distance.
Big gunner would be most effective on long distances, but would have troubles on very long and short distance.
Assault gunners would be most effective on medium distances and but would be most balanced in terms weakness/strenght.
SMGs/Shotguns/Pistol users would be most effective on short distances, but would be medicore/weak on medium and very weak on long - very long distances.



In practice i believe it would create many tactical situations and counter situations:

A minigunner would be a lot safer if supported by SMG/Shotgun/pistol combatant, and could defend/advance a position in open, but in urban area the assault gunners and SMG/shotgun/pistols could sneak on him and flank him. If that is not possible, then a well positioned sniper could come to use.

Aswell, i believe it could lead to intresting pvp confrontations, even if one on one only, that one could tell and write more about then just "i just killed 2 players":

What if two snipers met eachother in Klamath? big open ended area with lots of houses. There would be no more point in running forward and instant eye shotting eachother too see who is more durable and who gets that finishing insta critical. Now if one sniper spots the other one aiming, he would be given this time to retreat and change his position, and try to catch the other sniper without been noticed, it could become like a cat & mouse situation, and it would be all about beign the cat.



Lets try us to examine what tactical situations this could lead too, and imagine what pvp confrontations could happand, then write it here and lets discuss!

[Whisky Bob]

Forgot about medics. Again. Medicrrrrrage.

[VongJin]

BG should not  be weak in close distance. (pointblank burst have x3 dmg mod)

[avv]

I agree mostly.

Why not have big guns mostly effective at medium-long distance?

But problem with these distances is however that players can very quickly change their positions by just running. An advantage received from certain range could quickly be undone by few seconds of running and it's pretty retarded.

Forgot about medics. Again. Medicrrrrrage.

What about them lol? They could surely have some place eventually. Ktt can't think of everything, we gotta limit the thread somewhere.

[OskaRus]

You mean to get rid of the whole AP mechanics.

I think it would take a lot of programming.

Otherwise I dont see anything how it would improve PvP experience. In PvP we want to shoot, run, heal, kill. Not run around like cretins trying to block someone inside house to kill him with shot taking 3secs.

[pistacja]

..melee? No? Ok

[zato1]

this would be awesome if you could also introduce an AP drain-over-time on running AND walking, so that you are encouraged to actually stand and fight and not hope for your 1 miracle shot.

[kraskish]

I and some other guy suggested the same too. Instead of 0.5 second per AP, I suggested 0,1s, but I think 0,5 is fine, cause we can have 2 AP pistoleros . Yes I approve of this, this would really balance things out

[kttdestroyer]

Well, let us examine the details of above stated issues and how they would look in proposed real time combat system and situations that could be the outcome.


Melee? No? (pistacja)

I do not agree, i think for the melee and unarmed the game would just become. Melee/unarmed maybe should not take time to perform (other then AP loose like currently). I think the time it costs to get to its target is equal the time to shoot a weapon, and so it makes it even, however, correct me if you believe my thinking is incomplete.


Distance and running from it (avv):

I agree that Big gunner effectiveness fits Medium-Long range better. In direct confrontation assault rifle user would be a bit weaker. (Assault rifle user would be still more versile)

Yes, i imagine that running will be existing. But let us think about it, in real life, if you would see or recaive information that there is a sniper close by, you would not stand still and most likely try to get some cover.

Big gunner mechanics speculation:
With a Big gunner confrontation (a big gunner meets a closer ranged wepon using person), there are few options how to make big gunner perform. The most reasonable one i can think of right now is that after minigunner fires the damage is sent out in 3 (2?) waves, and depending if the target is still in range he will get or not whole damage of which amount is decided at the beginning of firing the minigun. As an exemple: Minigunner fires, target is visible, the damage is a critt doing 120 damage, 1 second: target recaives 40 damage(120/3 seconds), 2 second: target is still visible but is trying to run away, and recaives further 40 damage, 3 second: target has taken cover behind a building and is not visible, he doesint recaive damage, but if someone else stands close to same hex as the target was last visible he would recaive this damage.

Another way to solve this, could be to make 3 smaller burst over those 3 seconds, and simply divide each of the bursts final damage by 3. The minigunner could then change his target during the burst. If the first target took hiding he could keep firing the last part of the burst on a second target.

The burster i believe should be able to abort his burst but loose the corresponding AP points with it.


Shot, run, heal, kill (OskaRus):

I have to agree, that the battle would be a lot more demanding for players that want to "Shot, run, heal and kill", more demanding on their tactical ability especially. But, personally i was always hoping this mod is aiming/trying to aim more for Role playing, player meeting, intresting confrontations then shot-run-kill simulator.

And yes, this could lead to some changes of current "elit", not nessecery, but i assume some players could suddently loose their strenght in favor of others.


Big gunner on close range (damage x 3)(VongJin):

Well, personally, i dont agree that minigun is a close range weapon. A 3xDamage from point blank i see as a fallou fun part, not something that this weapon made for (in any game, in reality, on diffrent planet it is/would be long range weapon i assume).

However, see no point in change the 3xdamage, i just believe the firing should push the big gunners to their true role. I think making big gunners slow on turning around would also increase the virtual realism (the common understanding of simple psychical rules that are elements of logical conclusions). Exemple: If you run with an SMG from behind on a big gunner, you have right to assume that the biggunner will not turn instantly 180 degrees, an SMG you hold with one hand, a minigun with your whole buddy.


Medics (Whisky Bob):

I believe that medics would by this would be justs given their chance as the battles would be slower in terms of deciding who wins (players would not instantly drop dead in massive numbers i predict). A injured or damaged player could easier retreat to a more safer position (position secured by his team mates for exemple) and meet the medic.

Also, becouse of more options of balancing the game would be present, medics could be rebalanced and maybe use first aid kits or doctorbags to quicker heal partipicants of the battle (quicker then FA which every player on battlefield can use).

[avv]

Yes, i imagine that running will be existing. But let us think about it, in real life, if you would see or recaive information that there is a sniper close by, you would not stand still and most likely try to get some cover.

But in real life a sniper or anyone with semi-auto or faster weapon can shoot dozens of shots when you run 100 metres. But in fonline you can fire like once or twice with any gun before someone is either right next to you, far away or just dead.

There are ways to affect this but I'm worried about posting new too complicated suggestions. However when it comes to walking or running, walking could have a benefit: when walking, you don't need to regen all the aps required to shoot. You could have like 1 or 2 already regenerated aps because when walking you aren't so winded or shaky when you're gonna shoot an encountered enemy.

[MeganFox]

You are trying to change this game too much devs want to make this game as more it can be as original. You can also try make threads like guys in metal armors should be slower then bluesuits etc...

[Cocain]

Well, let us examine the details of above stated issues and how they would look in proposed real time combat system and situations that could be the outcome.


Melee? No? (pistacja)

I do not agree, i think for the melee and unarmed the game would just become. Melee/unarmed maybe should not take time to perform (other then AP loose like currently). I think the time it costs to get to its target is equal the time to shoot a weapon, and so it makes it even, however, correct me if you believe my thinking is incomplete.

i didnt understood..

[zato1]

well with the RT and TB split it is clear that they need to focus on one and "choose" which one is the "real primary combat style" of fonline. til then all we'll have is a bunch of ideas with no direction :/

[kttdestroyer]

Running / Walking (avv)

Yes, well i assume that if a sniper sees a running target, he will not aim for eyes but for body parts that require less preparations (less time cost/AP) like legs.

I agree with the running feature, that if one is walking then two of all APs still regenerates, this could be aswell usefull in RT for Bonus move (maybe with x2 bonus move forexemple one could have 4 AP that regenerate while walking), which now is useless in RT.


Staying close to originals (MeganFox)

Correct me if i am wrong, but originals were turn-based (both Fallout 1 and Fallout 2). And AP was to represent time. Even the perks say, Bonus rate of fire perk for one; "This Perk allows you to pull the trigger a little faster...". However, in current system, you dont shoot faster, becouse, everybody shots instantly when they have the AP. Thats why, i believe that "staying as close to originals" goes together with the combat system above proposed.


What i ment with melee

That for a melee/unarmed character, i believe main problem is just the current system where players can unleash all fire power they have in 1 second. I believe with introduction of fireing time they would have time to get to their target. So, even without any modification or balancing they would already gain a boost.

Together with this, i think the fireing time for Melee/unarmed characters could even stay as it is (instant). Their firing time would be represented by the time it takes to run forward to the opponent.

[Y0ssarian]

Medic, what?

You mean those power builds with 250 HP, 200 skill+ in BG and the rest in Doc & Med? Yeah. That's cool.