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Author Topic: TB Combat  (Read 1547 times)

TB Combat
« on: September 30, 2010, 06:51:41 pm »

Intro:

I will be comparing at some moments to a diffrent game called Forgotten Hope that is a Battlefield 1942 mod. (its a WW2 first-person shooter)

As a start, we should figure out what are the key elements to a victory, whatever it is, modern battle, medieval duel or simple street fight, the key elements are still the same. No matter of size of the army. Few i dig up are, perception (see the enemy before he sees you), knowlage (knowing enemies options) and finally decision making (where, how and when). Now, in TB Fonline combat, none of those are base to victory, very seldom and mostly by the enemies complete lack of those rather then ones superiority one can make use of those 3. In RT combat (TC) those come to use, however, could be on bigger scale?

Something a nerd can call experience;
I can tell from Battlefield game and realism. So, in battlefield 1942 players had a lot HP (like in Fonline), and most guns were weak (like in Fonline, majority of guns are weak). Only head shot was one shot kills (like eye shots/critticals in Fonline). If you shot a whole magazine in ones torso, he would not die (like Fonline). So, the battlefield 1942 was a lot about, reflexes, quick button pressing and joysticks (insert aimbots)(mean, which players were favorized by the game to win). Now, Forgotten Hope is a mod that tried to make the game more realistic, players were given a lot less HP and weapons did more damage, a torso one bullet shot most often ended in player elimination (meaning, totally the opposite way). Now that players were so easly killed, they had to think, exacly those; where is the enemy? What does he see/do? what weapon does he have? how do i kill him without getting killed, or should i risk? My main point with this is, the mod made the game a lot more about those 3 key elements then luck, and gave this feeling (which i think is good) that you play the game rather then the game plays you.

TB encounters and its Luck
In Fallout Online a lot of things depend on luck and items unfortunatly. Especially in TB. You cannot decide where you gonna spawn, you dont see who you meet until you spawn on him, and you cant decide what to do becouse its not your turn (and to make it worse sometimes never is!). I my opinion the whole TB PVP should be reworked and rethinked from beggining. Why not make for exemple not only outdoor count but the amount of lets say KG of armour and items that are in encounter, meaning if there is a big fight, you should hear it coming from far away and easier spot it before it spots you, and the other way around, if you are a level 1 char walking in blue with a knife then it should be harder to spot you.
 
The maps are really too small for a player meeting aswell (especially the cave ones), in my opinion should be at least 4 times bigger, and when walking into an encounter, instead of them just standing there looking stupid why not making NPC walk (caravan walks from one side of the map to another, rats do not work as a team no more but run around the map for themselves, a deathclaw hides behind a wall waiting for you to pass, and maybe some items could be found aswell like in caves). Few days ago i spawned 1 hex from a player(!?), i mean, who the hell am i, some kind of a spiderman? On the side note, i do not agree that the higher HP on animals make the game any more intresting, encounter system is quite broken and so is leveling becouse of it, higher HP just makes the annoying things more annoying. Sitting on the sun drinking a beer is great, killing 3000 scorpions in Fallout online is just priceless. I dont really know what really are the enconters made for aswell, TB or RT? maybe there should be two encounters for each encounter type, like, Scorpions for TB and Scorpions for RT.
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Re: TB Combat
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2010, 01:31:40 am »

Personally, I like the TB system. My only complaint is that it is slow sometimes. It is much more tactical then RT, you could solo BoS or Enclave guys in TB, but you probably couldn't do that in RT (unless you had 5 Super Mutants with Big Guns/ EW, but that defies the meaning of "Solo")

Play a bit more in TB and RT, compare how difficult things can be while fighting LARGE ARMED groups, try it solo and with friends. You'll find that your ideas are interesting but unnecesary for the benefit of the game. Maybe RT needs to be "slowed down" but this is after all FALLOUT and Fallout's combat system was awsome, it's TB system is pretty much "Perfect."

Remember that in TB "Sequence" plays a vital role in PVP, same with Ap's. I have killed higher level players, who are better armed and armoured then my char thanks to some good ol' TB tactics. A bluesuit with a mauser can kill a Tank in CA with a minigun, it's possible in both RT and TB but its just easier in TB... Luck plays a role in many things but sometimes, just sometimes luck is nothing compared to someone's quick thinking....
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Re: TB Combat
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2010, 03:50:49 am »

I just have to say you commenting on quick thinking in turn based made me smile  ;D
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Re: TB Combat
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2010, 04:08:33 am »

Personally, I like the TB system. My only complaint is that it is slow sometimes. It is much more tactical then RT, you could solo BoS or Enclave guys in TB, but you probably couldn't do that in RT (unless you had 5 Super Mutants with Big Guns/ EW, but that defies the meaning of "Solo")
Well... That is TB system indeed.
Play a bit more in TB and RT, compare how difficult things can be while fighting LARGE ARMED groups, try it solo and with friends. You'll find that your ideas are interesting but unnecesary for the benefit of the game. Maybe RT needs to be "slowed down" but this is after all FALLOUT and Fallout's combat system was awsome, it's TB system is pretty much "Perfect."
Heh, i bet i have played this game a bit longer then you mate... And what i ment was TB PVP, which Fallout combat system that you call awsome is not made for, and to make it work better for TB PVP somethings need to be polished out i believe. And if you play this game a bit more i am sure you will find out the flaws in TB PVP (which i explained above), aswell as monotonic (yes, after few months it becomes monotonic) leveling in TB, although that part works for me personally.
Remember that in TB "Sequence" plays a vital role in PVP, same with Ap's. I have killed higher level players, who are better armed and armoured then my char thanks to some good ol' TB tactics. A bluesuit with a mauser can kill a Tank in CA with a minigun, it's possible in both RT and TB but its just easier in TB... Luck plays a role in many things but sometimes, just sometimes luck is nothing compared to someone's quick thinking....
I am not really sure what game you are talking about, but let me get this straight, you killed a 240 HP minigunner in a CA with a luger?  and you are saying that it has to do with thinking? So, how many "thinking" critticals did you get? and how many crittical failurs did he get? Or, let me guess, he was afk?  ::)So no, i cant agree with you, quick thinking in this game is unfortunatly not vital for victory, in TB it is: 1. Luck-2. Build-3. Items----10. Thinking. In RT it is 1. Luck 2. Reflexes 3. Build 4. Items 5. Thinking. Something like that, depending on situation ofcourse.
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Re: TB Combat
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 04:13:18 am »

Well I'm not going to repeat myself...I suggest you RE-RE-Read posts before replying to them. Anyhow, I do not like your ideas about changing the combat system and do not support your point of view at all. On behalf of most players who play this game I can confidently say that the combat system does not need any changes, why? Because we are content and have been having fun with the system for how many years now... It sounds like maybe you just had a bad experience getting pawned by some noob.

If you would like to make your OWN FOnline you are free to do so, simply download the SDK and learn to program it. I'm sure that by then if you could program your own perfect Fallout combat system it might catch on. Until then, try to enjoy playing this game or go find a new game to play.

Hint of advice however, if you plan on making more suggestions try not to show hostility to the people who reply to your ideas, it doesn't make you look very serious, regardless of how well it was presented.
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Owner of FOnline 2258! A true Fallout inspired adventure!
http://bit.ly/3syLeTp
http://www.fonline2258.com
Re: TB Combat
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 03:21:12 pm »

Well I'm not going to repeat myself...I suggest you RE-RE-Read posts before replying to them. Anyhow, I do not like your ideas about changing the combat system and do not support your point of view at all. On behalf of most players who play this game I can confidently say that the combat system does not need any changes, why? Because we are content and have been having fun with the system for how many years now... It sounds like maybe you just had a bad experience getting pawned by some noob.

If you would like to make your OWN FOnline you are free to do so, simply download the SDK and learn to program it. I'm sure that by then if you could program your own perfect Fallout combat system it might catch on. Until then, try to enjoy playing this game or go find a new game to play.

Hint of advice however, if you plan on making more suggestions try not to show hostility to the people who reply to your ideas, it doesn't make you look very serious, regardless of how well it was presented.

I guess you are the representant of the players, well then mr president. Thank you for the wise word of advice   ::)

My Suggestion: When you really have something senseful to say (by common standards, which you seem not entire share) then post, when you dont, dont post or you just make a clown of yourself.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 03:22:44 pm by kttdestroyer »
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Re: TB Combat
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 09:25:23 pm »

Maybe give bonus 10 perception for half a second when a player enters someone's encounter, it would spawn them further away from the middle. Not very vanilla fallouty but it would resolve spawning right next to somebody.

I don't see people remaking every encounter map to 4 x the size anytime soon (it's a lot of work and imagine the walk to the exit grid in TB.)

I try to play solely in turnbased due to consistently bad ping, like corosive said: sequence is very, very important.
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20:49:58 • You encounter: Ghoul crazies.
20:50:01 • You were critically hit in the head for 55 hit points, knocked out and had your armor bypassed.
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