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Total Members Voted: 19

[Lordus]

 Hello,
 after testing TLA and other fallout onlibe based servers i got new experiences. I have to say, that i like 2238 more than other servers, but still, there is a lot of thing that have to change, if 2238 have to be more entertaining.

 The whole problem is, that on 2238 server - server made for single players- established gang pvp community.


 Current obstacles:
1) Time

  Not caps, not resources, but TIME is main commodity you need to get everything. This should be the view of devs in their future changes integration.
  
 You need a lot of time to spend, if you want to join team PvP. You need:
 a) time for creating and leveling your crafters
 b) time for gathering resources and crafting for your leveling
 c) time for leveling up your char
 d) time for gathering res and crafting your pvp stuff
 
 So you need at least (SG sniper char): SG lvl 3 crafter, SG pvp char, trader char or armorer+doctor char => this is neccesary for one PvP build, if you dont want to steal/PKilling/beg.

 Of course you can share some chars with your teamates, but every pvp gang member knows, that this common crafters are not enough for whole gang.
 
2) Single player 2238 concept

 2238 should not be only for gangs but for individual players, not PvP players,...
---------------------

What am i suggesting?

 Give pvp members opportunity to get competitive stuff to PvP in less than half of hour. They will have to SPEND TIME to  a)-c) anyway, but they would have chance to join pvp every day and they will need 1 hour of they daytime to this (half of an hour to collect stuff, half to pvp itself).

What kind of stuff should they get and how?

 On TLA, there exist contept of Location control, i.e. you can go to Cathedral, call Brotherhood/Enclave and after some time car will arive with stuff. Every time you can be attacked by other players. Because there is a plenty of basic (G11 is unavaible hi-tech in 2238, but there is this gear basic one) stuff there, car arrives with more than basic stuff (sometimes even PA,..).

  If main purpose for that stuff on 2238 will be PVP, there should exist some similar PvE scenario for gang (at least 3 members), that will give you needded PvP stuff for number of members joined in that PvE. After this, you could get weapons like LSW, FN FAL, ... (weapons that could kill even better equiped enemy, if you use them better than your enemy uses his stuff) and armors (MKI).

 I have to repeat, that this PvE should not be interrupted by enemy, because purpose is to get stuff for PVP, not to be killed because you dont have stuff.

 Players who will spend more time, they will have time and opportunities to craft better stuff (like current best tier craftable weapons).

 Also because of point n.2), this weapons should be little damaged and maybe marked by some sign, that will cause impossibility of selling them to NPC traders (like raiders sign.. people will be scared of buying it, becaus of possible punishment from raiders or whatever).

 I know that you will introduce changes, but like everytime before, you lack of communication about changes itself.

 As i am member of team PvP gang, and as i have duties in my civil life, i can spend few days to level up my char on lvl 21, but i dont have time to spend it for crafting to give my stuff to enemies (at the moment, 90 percent of fights means that our team gives stuff for enemy team, who absolutely dont need it because of current TC income) => not well balanced.

 I am suggesting half of hour to get stuff you need to one fight. It is also player interaction element, because you will not craft alone, but join this PVE with your friends. Many of players leave us because they are bored of crafting or they dont have enough time to it (like myself), they could be back without destroying existing elements. I dont want to get stuff immediately, like on some Fallout online server mod, because game is than boring.

[RavenousRat]

Solar already said about NPC faction, where you'll get all stuff you need, then they will throw you on battle ground and you'll fight there, if there're too much players in 1 team and less in other, then 2nd team will have NPCs, that's what I can remember he said once somewhere. You don't need to craft something or steal something as I understood, you need only gain reputation for your NPC faction, probably for better equipment or possibility to take part in it, or something. So it'll be solved, but in future.

[Lordus]

Solar already said about NPC faction, where you'll get all stuff you need, then they will throw you on battle ground and you'll fight there, if there're too much players in 1 team and less in other, then 2nd team will have NPCs, that's what I can remember he said once somewhere. You don't need to craft something or steal something as I understood, you need only gain reputation for your NPC faction, probably for better equipment or possibility to take part in it, or something. So it'll be solved, but in future.

 i am talking about Player driven factions, not NPCs.

 I want to be in gang with my friends only, not unknown players.
 I want to join team PvP against other teams.
 I want to spend half of hour to have stuff needed to one fight.

 but also players should have possibility to craft better weapons, armors,...

 On one fallout online based server, you get unlimited weapons, drugs, armors, ammo FREE in quality depends on your level, you ressurect imediatly after death.. it is other aproach, i  need compromise.

[avv]

Sorry but I find it difficult to agree here due to differend expectations about the game.

...NPC faction...

Exactly. Npcs factions provide us with reasons and tools to fight. The higher rank one has, the better equipment he gets. I have no opinion about any other pvp than what is related to npc factions or fallout storyline because any other pvp shouldn't exist. Pvp is only allowed to exist if it holds a reason that suits the fallout world. Fighting for the fighting's sake doesn't suit fallout so gathering gear and going somewhere to start a war just for kicks shouldn't be supported in any way. Surely you could do it, but it wouldn't have much ingame benefits.

Secondly if players lived longer in general and didn't just plunge themselves in meaningless fights, the item gathering process wouldn't have to hold so big part in the game. You grab a piece of equipment and adventure with it, slowly gathering some more advanced stuff during your adventures. Fighting in domination fights are differend because you don't really die or lose anything.

[RavenousRat]

Hmm, then win/lose TC whould affect PC driven faction economy? Like every place has some kind of factory which produces or repairs broken equipment and only members of controling faction can use it (or if they wish, everyone may use it).
So if you lost, then craft your equipment yourself, if won, then you'll get some from these factories or something.
Also it should start produce equipment after X hours of last control, so if you took town for few minutes, it won't do anything good for you, you need to guard it some time, and if you went to sleep and someone stole your town, then this X hours must be more or exact time when you'll awake and may retake town.
Also all t3 equipment must have connection to unguarded towns, so APK factions will have good popularity across loners and.. anyone who isn't in PK faction, because only at town under APK faction control they can craft cool equipment.

So, if you lost fight, then craft yourself, if you won, then you have some stuff as reward, but not instantly.


Edit:
Another idea with item spawing for controling faction is starting from low tier equipment at begin of controling, then with a time middle tier and then high tier, so if you want to get uber items you need to control that town X hours, where X isn't low number.

[Lordus]

No, i want simple solution for dozens of players who wants to join PvP.

 Why at the moment we dont engafe Chosen soldiers every day? We dont want to craft/trade hours do die in few seconds and donate them with our stuff (sorry chosen sold., you are better now, but big part of us dont play because of this reason .. they are on TLA, somewhere else,...).

 I suggest only different way how to get stuff you will be able to use only against other players in PvP.

 You dont get stuff for free, you have to i.e. survive raid of enemy NPCs, so you need at least basic stuff to survive or strongest members to protect you. You will get stuff you will be able to craft/get elsewhere, but because you spend only half of hour, this stuff will not be best tier and will not be in perfect condition.

Developer has to hold in mind, how to attract and hold players in 2238, or even hot to bring them back. This is solution.

 Nobody from our not PvP active or exmembers will not join 2238 because of they can be in NPC driven factions. We knows each others, we sometimes go to pub together, we dont have desire to share same experience with unknow player like is Ravenous or avv (nothing personal).

 Why support only NPC driven factions with "free" equip. We dont need your hard work to implement new maps, scripts, scenarios to enjoy this game. We are already enjoying, if there is not economy barrier.

 Sorry avv, i have to disagree with you. You are typical example of non PvP player, like Vedaras was. Your aproach and gamaplay is different to us. We dont play for leveling, we level up for playing Fonline. At this need a lot of time. After last wipe more.

 Give us this possibility, give us 20 percent damage and zero value LSW, p90, FN FAL, laser rifle,... and metal armors and cca 50 ammo in half and hour, so even us, people with work, study, girlfriend, ... could play every day without suffering of waiting.

 Give players, who were not able (or lack of taste) to join PvP gang, PvP scenarios (NPC driven factions), but for us, currently playing PvP players is this "downgrade". We will not massively join NPC driven factions for PvP.

[kttdestroyer]

One of the way to solve this is to make items a bit less worth, i suggested some ideas in my post that would support this. A more like i called it "perception, knowlage and decision making" calculation of who wins then item / amount of people based like it is now.

Shortly:
The cliff between low armors, weapons, HP and high armors, weapons, HP are reduced.
The Combat is more focused about tactics then items becouse of diffrent AP usage.
Players dont have to use the best items to achive a tactical victory.

[kraskish]

I suggested PvE raids like those ones you got in F2 at Metzger (you killed a lot of slaves) and got reward for it... we have PvP towns, we have PvP arena but we dont have some miniquest, repeatable raids and as you said not interrupted...

[avv]

Why at the moment we dont engafe Chosen soldiers every day? We dont want to craft/trade hours do die in few seconds and donate them with our stuff

No the real reason why you don't engage them is because there's no reason to. There's nothing your enemies have which you absolutely needed or else. They aren't guarding a spring of clear water vital for survival for example.

You dont get stuff for free, you have to i.e. survive raid of enemy NPCs, so you need at least basic stuff to survive or strongest members to protect you. You will get stuff you will be able to craft/get elsewhere, but because you spend only half of hour, this stuff will not be best tier and will not be in perfect condition.

Sounds like something Raiders would do. Maybe you could consider joining them.

Developer has to hold in mind, how to attract and hold players in 2238, or even how to bring them back.

Actually many players have also left because of mindless player killing.

Why support only NPC driven factions with "free" equip.

Because npc factions have fallout-related reason to fight and exist. There was no vsb, bbs or chosen soldiers in fallout universe. Players and player factions do not share the same interests as everyone else in the wasteland and that's why they cannot exist or have a major role there. There was no "wish to just pvp" in fallout world.

Sorry avv, i have to disagree with you. You are typical example of non PvP player, like Vedaras was. Your aproach and gamaplay is different to us. We dont play for leveling, we level up for playing Fonline. At this need a lot of time. After last wipe more.

Yes you're allowed to disagree. But just because i'm not pure pvp player doesn't mean I'm wrong in this issue. I understand that you just want freedom and a chance to compete against other players. However you must also realize that fonline is not pure sandbox game where you can do everything you want without consequences. The fact that pvp is right now based solely on getting stuff and then going to fight causes all sorts of problems. It causes so called mindless pvp where players just blast each other off no matter the reason. It also causes arms race in equipment and character building.

Give us this possibility, give us 20 percent damage and zero value LSW, p90, FN FAL, laser rifle,... and metal armors and cca 50 ammo in half and hour, so even us, people with work, study, girlfriend, ... could play every day without suffering of waiting.

I don't know exactly how domination mode will work but it should provide you with these equipments and you wouldn't even need to craft them. Who cares about the rp part? Pure pvp players have just ignored them so far and went for the most effective way to succeed. If the most effective way was in this case to join a npc faction what difference would it make? Pure pvp players have always just been interested in getting things done no matter how.

[borse]

Sorry but I find it difficult to agree here due to differend expectations about the game.

Exactly. Npcs factions provide us with reasons and tools to fight. The higher rank one has, the better equipment he gets. I have no opinion about any other pvp than what is related to npc factions or fallout storyline because any other pvp shouldn't exist. Pvp is only allowed to exist if it holds a reason that suits the fallout world. Fighting for the fighting's sake doesn't suit fallout so gathering gear and going somewhere to start a war just for kicks shouldn't be supported in any way. Surely you could do it, but it wouldn't have much ingame benefits.

Secondly if players lived longer in general and didn't just plunge themselves in meaningless fights, the item gathering process wouldn't have to hold so big part in the game. You grab a piece of equipment and adventure with it, slowly gathering some more advanced stuff during your adventures. Fighting in domination fights are differend because you don't really die or lose anything.

I like this rank system idea. Kind of like when you join a player faction and must gain the trust of your faction before gaining access to 'the goods'

[Solar]

The problem comes with the fact you have many different people wanting the game to be many different things, so one system tuned to a certain group then annoys the other people and vice versa.

You have some people wanting the game to be hard, stuff to be rare and just surviving being a real challenge. Then you have some people that basically just want it to be a series of Fallout:Tactics scenarios and don't want any part of the crafting/struggling side.

Its a very fine balance maintaining the two sides because when they both meet, obviously the free equipment guy is going to have an easy ride vs the struggling player.


Hopefully we have some features coming up to let all sides have their little place without completely messing up the balance - and as mentioned earlier in this thread, Faction based PvP where your equipment is provided (Theres no reason why this can't be done in teams too)

[avv]

The problem comes with the fact you have many different people wanting the game to be many different things, so one system tuned to a certain group then annoys the other people and vice versa.

Let's face it: this is because devs tell us hardly anything about what they plan the game to be. If devs just stated for example "We want to make wasteland action rpg game where things like xxx and yyy are heavily supported but SSS is not."
This way players knew what to suggest and report. If they found something that did not support the theme devs planned, they would have a reasoned right to report and suggest changes.

I'm a member of certain mod community where the devs clearly stated what they want their game be like in macro level. They even explained why certain things in micro level musn't exist and what not to suggest or question. Then players had much less things to expect and argue. It didn't make lots of people mad or leave the game en masse.

[Surf]

Because npc factions have fallout-related reason to fight and exist. There was no vsb, bbs or chosen soldiers in fallout universe. Players and player factions do not share the same interests as everyone else in the wasteland and that's why they cannot exist or have a major role there. There was no "wish to just pvp" in fallout world.

Listen to this man for he speaketh the truth.

[Dark Angel]

On PVP i must have best gun , lot of ammo , Brotherhood armor and super stims... so 4 H .. ( i have only 2 alts) ;>

[Solar]

Let's face it: this is because devs tell us hardly anything about what they plan the game to be. If devs just stated for example "We want to make wasteland action rpg game where things like xxx and yyy are heavily supported but SSS is not."
This way players knew what to suggest and report. If they found something that did not support the theme devs planned, they would have a reasoned right to report and suggest changes.

I'm a member of certain mod community where the devs clearly stated what they want their game be like in macro level. They even explained why certain things in micro level musn't exist and what not to suggest or question. Then players had much less things to expect and argue. It didn't make lots of people mad or leave the game en masse.

Heh, theres no reason to limit what we are doing - I'm sure in the end we will have enough for PvPers and PvE and a decent mix available if thats what someone wants. Anything interesting has an equal chance of getting done, as that is essentially the main reason any of this is done in the first place.