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Author Topic: TB end turn AP saving  (Read 2923 times)

Ned Logan

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TB end turn AP saving
« on: September 15, 2010, 08:13:20 pm »

Situation: you are in TB combat 1 hex away from your target, you shot a burst for 6 AP, 4 AP remaining...
a) you walk away 4 tiles, but the target is a long range fighter and you are close range, so it doesn't make sense
b) you end end turn loosing 4 AP

I suggest that when ending turn, the unspent AP are saved for your next turn, up to half of your max AP (10 AP char can save 5, 11=>6..., this is necessary to prevent saving 60 AP and doing a one turn massacre...).
This would make it less necessary to think about AP costs when creating character, and make the mechanics a more fair...
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Ned Logan

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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2010, 06:21:07 pm »

No response... does that mean that the idea is not bad but not really amazing, or nobody understands it? :)
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Crazy

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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2010, 06:45:48 pm »

I think that there are just not enough people who play TB.
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Schwartz

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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2010, 06:51:32 pm »

I dont like this :p
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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2010, 06:51:53 pm »

i love idea, its what i thought alot when i was like "wow... end turn to lose all AP?", but... here would be kinda problem.... imagine guys in caravan start combat, they all gonna spam "end turn", and when someone gets in their encounter, they gonna spam him with 100000 bursts?
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Ned Logan

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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2010, 06:59:32 pm »

i love idea, its what i thought alot when i was like "wow... end turn to lose all AP?", but... here would be kinda problem.... imagine guys in caravan start combat, they all gonna spam "end turn", and when someone gets in their encounter, they gonna spam him with 100000 bursts?
Man, you should have read the whole suggestion - as I said, you shouldn't be able to save more than half of your total AP, so if you have 10 AP, max you can have even with the AP saving is 15.
That entering areas (both TB and RT) sucks is true, but for another topic...

Schwartz: Hey, if I wanted a vote, I would have made a poll...
I wanna know why anyone wouldn't like it. Only thing I can imagine is someone having a perfect 2 bursts per turn powerbuild and wanting to keep the advantage...
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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2010, 10:52:20 am »

What if saved APs will increase your sequence, so, for example, you have 16 sequence and he has 20 sequence. Each unspent AP will give 2 to sequence.

His turn 1st, because he has more sequence:
He shots at you losing all APs, or leaving 1 AP, his sequence is 22 until his next turn.
Then your turn:
You burst him and leaving 4 APs, you doing nothing, skiping your turn, so you have 16+4x2=24 sequence.
End of round.

Your turn 1st, because 24>22, so your turn again and you can burst again, and then keep these 4 APs, or else he'll have double turn, because his sequence will be higher and next round he'll have 1st turn.

If you want X-Com/JA2 system, then sequence can be used to intercept turn after each action someone does by sequence roll of action maker against other targets. Number of critters/player who see him will be added to action maker roll, because it easier to do something when there're alot people, because it's impossible to recognize who's hostile, who's neutral and who's friend, so high sequence will allow to you to observe doorway with full APs incase if BGer with lower PE, meaning with lower sequence will go throught that doorway and sniper will have a roll to intercept turn and can make a shot, but... it more looks like Fallout Tactics, not Fallout + it's TB... I don't think you'll see much cool battles in TB.

About unspent APs... only because almost noone is using TB it won't affect anything really, even caravan traps in TB, because there's no more visible caravans on the map.
Anyway it'll be useful for critters, even non-melee, if your weapon has range more than thier + not all critters shoot on max distance, so these morons sometimes lack ~1 AP to hit you while you using hit and run, so with this it'll be harder to exploit lack of brains in critters, but really.. it'll only make battles longer, because instead of hit, run, hit, run, hit, players will use hit, run, run, hit, run, run, hit.

Also all I can see with AP saving is:
BGer hiding behind corner, skiping turn, then running closer to his victim with 18 AP (12+6) [or with 21 AP, if he has jet+action boys], then skiping one turn again and then running in point blank and bursting.
The only problem that such fights in TB in urban area with building with alot people in cool gear isn't that often, so you'll see that implemention once per year.
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BurntAluminum

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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2010, 11:01:40 am »

Actually Unused AP turns into AC(Armor class, it's below your HP), it adds onto your natural defenses and whatever you're wearing, I think AP should stay as is because with this idea one could be sitting back in a fight with 10 AP and just end turn a bunch of times while NPC's are fighting eachother, have around 100 action points. It doesn't sound possible to avoid this to me, but I could be wrong... This would also fuck some Jetheads over that end turn to get a better boost of AC... I doubt there are many that do that though...
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Andr3aZ

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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2010, 11:03:59 am »

Actually Unused AP turns into AC(Armor class, it's below your HP), it adds onto your natural defenses and whatever you're wearing, I think AP should stay as is because with this idea one could be sitting back in a fight with 10 AP and just end turn a bunch of times while NPC's are fighting eachother, have around 100 action points. It doesn't sound possible to avoid this to me, but I could be wrong... This would also fuck some Jetheads over that end turn to get a better boost of AC... I doubt there are many that do that though...

didnt unused AP to AC only work in Fallout 1&2 Singleplayer but not here ?
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Surf

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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2010, 11:06:45 am »

didnt unused AP to AC only work in Fallout 1&2 Singleplayer but not here ?

Yes. And I think it should stay so. Unused AP->AC. Nothing more.
Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2010, 11:12:26 am »

I dont know if it has an actual game "effect" but unused AP do seem to be transfered to Armor Class...

and a further question now... does Armor Class actually do anything? I got the perk Dodger (+5 AC) and while wearing a Leather Armor mark 2 I cant say that I get hit less than before... I do get less damage because of DR so sometimes people hit me (or critters) and do 0 damage but I am not sure if I actually get hit less...

How does Armor Class work in the game?
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Surf

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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2010, 11:15:55 am »

The higher your armor class, the more skillpoints the enemy needs in his weapon skill.
You're basically harder to hit.

Ned Logan

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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2010, 12:19:46 pm »

AC is practically useless on lvl 21 fights, it decreses the chance to hit by it's amount, so majority of builds are done so on max range they have 95%, so with additional 5 AC it is reducted to 90%...

Also it makes no sense - you don't move so you are harder to hit?

What I wanted by this change is to make RT builds less disadvantaged in TB.
Best would be that if I have set in config RT only, I couldn't get into TB encounters (or TB was totally disabled)...
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Andr3aZ

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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2010, 12:30:29 pm »

Also it makes no sense - you don't move so you are harder to hit?

for the sense : you use remaining AP for enhanced evade on incoming attacks in the enemys turn. (if an enemy missed you see a dodge-animation on your character)

basically more concentration on evading from you char. no standing still like a stone.



edit: yes i know... "dodge a bullet lololo"
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Re: TB end turn AP saving
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2010, 01:56:22 pm »

AC is practically useless on lvl 21 fights, it decreses the chance to hit by it's amount, so majority of builds are done so on max range they have 95%, so with additional 5 AC it is reducted to 90%...

Also it makes no sense - you don't move so you are harder to hit?

What I wanted by this change is to make RT builds less disadvantaged in TB.
Best would be that if I have set in config RT only, I couldn't get into TB encounters (or TB was totally disabled)...

Or, since we are all saying whatever we want, stop making TB builds disadvntaged in RT. Best would be that if I have set in config TB only, I couldnt get into RT encounters... or even better please disable RT totally as Fallout was a TB combat game.
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