Other > Closed suggestions

FOT style auto attack system for RT combat

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Elmehdi:

--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:23:57 am ---And stop comparing Fallout: Tactics with FOnline as far as any kind of automanagement goes, it's like comparing Warcraft 3 and Diablo; different genre, different scale.

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Fonline combat system cleary follows the example of FoT and the devs confirmed it many times, so comparing these two games is not out of place.


--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:23:57 am ---Of course they don't when taken by surprise since most PvP weapons have a range of over a screen - to control the area 360 degrees around you the resolution would have to be at least 2 times bigger and characters would look like the ones in Settlers series. This small resolution creates a somewhat realistic tunnel vision effect - you're able to react fast if you're doing CQB, but you're way slower if you're looking far away (ie. using the scope or stuff like that).
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And that's the point - the game isn't meant to be about how fast YOU react, but how fast your CHARACTER does and this should be dependant on a sequence. Also think about those that can't use max resolution.


--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:23:57 am ---Autosentry would kill that as most PvP builds have high PE, so it would make the game simpler, less demanding - and therefore worse.
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Nope, it would make a CHARACTER CONTROL simpler and there is a difference.

Nice_Boat:

--- Quote from: Elmehdi on January 16, 2010, 05:45:20 pm ---Fonline combat system cleary follows the example of FoT and the devs confirmed it many times, so comparing these two games is not out of place.

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The obvious difference being that FT had a squad of up to six characters while in FO you've got one. You couldn't micromanage six characters the way you can micromanage one, so FT required additional help FO doesn't require. Hence this comparison is only valid as far as translating action points into the real time combat goes. Oh, and sequence didn't matter in FT rt mode either.


--- Quote from: Elmehdi on January 16, 2010, 05:45:20 pm ---And that's the point - the game isn't meant to be about how fast YOU react, but how fast your CHARACTER does and this should be dependant on a sequence. Also think about those that can't use max resolution.

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Than how about pushing your argument a bit further and making AI do everything for you once you enter combat mode? After all it's your character fighting, not you. Autosentry removes the decision on which piece of the field you cover, and that's VERY important as far as tactics go. It's a push for "let's make everything go on by itself", as opposed to "let's keep it simple and tactical." Logically, it alienates the player from the character he controls - how can I get involved if my character suddenly reacts to a threat I didn't perceive? I mean, I could place my sniper char in a city, go for a cofee break and notice that "I" have won an engagement a few minutes ago upon my return - which wasn't the case in FT because you had to constantly adjust the positioning of your troops. Besides - can't use max resolution? You mean can't use 1280x1024, which is almost as tunnel vision heavy as 1024x768? Come on. Even the guys with really old machines are on equal footing with the latest alienware here.


--- Quote from: Elmehdi on January 16, 2010, 05:45:20 pm ---Nope, it would make a CHARACTER CONTROL simpler and there is a difference.

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How can you just say "nope" without dismantling my argument about tunnel vision first? Sadly, you can't really challenge that statement because it's true.

Elmehdi:

--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:30:14 pm ---The obvious difference being that FT had a squad of up to six characters while in FO you've got one. You couldn't micromanage six characters the way you can micromanage one, so FT required additional help FO doesn't require. Hence this comparison is only valid as far as translating action points into the real time combat goes.
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Yes, you have stated that before. I played a lot in FoT with just 1 character (usually a sneaker) and even this way I found auto attack an extremely useful option. Sneaking upon the enemy with a shotgun and toggling "aggresive" mode being just behind his back was very comfortable, especially when you wanted to kill more than one enemy, since it eliminated the risk of f.e. missclicking in a heat of fight.


--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:30:14 pm ---Oh, and sequence didn't matter in FT rt mode either.
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And the author of this topic have found a good way for it to start matter.


--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:30:14 pm ---Than how about pushing your argument a bit further and making AI do everything for you once you enter combat mode? After all it's your character fighting, not you.
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You are pushing the idea into extreme. There is also a difference in automating repeatable actions and automating making decisions. The more automated it is to perform a simple action the more you can concentrate on making real decisions.

 
--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:30:14 pm ---Autosentry removes the decision on which piece of the field you cover, and that's VERY important as far as tactics go.
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Obviously during more complex, tactical battles you may like to switch "autosentry" off. Don't forget that 95% of all the fights in Fonline are 1v1, 2v1, 3v1.. 10v1 etc. though, where there is no tactics but "who clicks first" fest. Instead of that, a sequence check would be relevant, since it should be nothing else than auto-reaction time.


--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:30:14 pm ---how can I get involved if my character suddenly reacts to a threat I didn't perceive?
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Your perception stat should matter, not resolution.


--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:30:14 pm ---I mean, I could place my sniper char in a city, go for a cofee break and notice that "I" have won an engagement a few minutes ago upon my return

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If you don't mind the risk, then yes, why not.

 
--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:30:14 pm ---Besides - can't use max resolution? You mean can't use 1280x1024, which is almost as tunnel vision heavy as 1024x768? Come on. Even the guys with really old machines are on equal footing with the latest alienware here.
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A lot of people play on laptops, since this game doesn't require much from your gear. Many laptops can't operate 1280x1024.


--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on January 16, 2010, 09:30:14 pm ---How can you just say "nope" without dismantling my argument about tunnel vision first? Sadly, you can't really challenge that statement because it's true.
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Play 800x600 if you like it so much  ;)

Roachor:
Yeah my laptop is like 1200 x 680 so I can't use that resolution. :/

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