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[Ymeogamaouas]

 Not exactly a bug but a question about AI of the NPC's when they carry, burst or AoE weapons.

I dont expect a "Remnant of the Masters Army" Mutant to care for my personal safety when he fires his missile launcher at an enemy next to me and when I subsequently die, I can only blame myself for being too close.

But when I meet a "NCR Caravan" with 3 guards and a merchant under attack by raiders then I expect that when I am standing close to the merchant and so does the raider attacking us that the NCR guard with the flamer WILL NOT fire at the raider THROUGH US! Killing me AND the merchant in the process!

So these guys have no qualms about me (although they are supposed to protect civilians) but they dont even care about the safety of the guy who is paying them to walk around!

Overall the aspect of FF is very strange with NPC's disregarding the safety of "neutrals" or "friends" in EVERY occasion and should be altered in a way that gives priority to life-protection rather than damage dealing.

[LagMaster]

well,FF in remnannts on masters army is a way to get rich(LRs!!!)

[n00buaddib]

Let's say that got changed so they don't fire launchers and stuff like that when you're next to someone they don't want to kill. What WILL a launcher guy do in that situation? All you'd have to do would be to stand right next to someone from their group and everyone else with grenades, launchers, flamers, burst weapons (ok, they could switch to single shot) would just stand around doing nothing?

[Michaelh139]

Let's say that got changed so they don't fire launchers and stuff like that when you're next to someone they don't want to kill. What WILL a launcher guy do in that situation? All you'd have to do would be to stand right next to someone from their group and everyone else with grenades, launchers, flamers, burst weapons (ok, they could switch to single shot) would just stand around doing nothing?

Well we could give em rippers as secondary weapons for those situations.

[n00buaddib]

I actually think it's cool they're killing one another. Not just for free loot (which sometimes isn't as free as it seems and you can die if you're not careful) but because in the mayhem ob battle, when some ghoul is standing next to you and you have a flamer in your hand...you don't really care who's behind him.

[Andrew Ryan]

Let's say that got changed so they don't fire launchers and stuff like that when you're next to someone they don't want to kill. What WILL a launcher guy do in that situation?

Exactly what someone with a grenade launcher would do in real life. Spray and pray and hope you hit more enemies and allies.

[Ymeogamaouas]

Seriously?

In real life wars people with flamers fire in the building where their comrades just went in?

Well, okay...

there is a country in the world that allows Helicopters and Jet Fighters to fire missiles on schools, Red Cross vehicles, bridges full of civilians, foreign embassies and even allied troops and all that...

BUT

it is still generally frowned upon and you dont get it as much in modern warzones where it is easy to identify friend from foe.

A guy with grenades and no other weapon in real life WILL NOT throw the grenade between his mate and the enemy when these two guys are wrestling for a gun.

He will use melee or unarmed to hit them.

Thats all I am saying, give NPC's a secondary weapon, either melee or unarmed or a single shot type of gun that they can use instead of laying waste to their own side and to the "innocents" that they are there to protect.

And yes, getting loot from accidental friendly fire kills is "kewl" but is this how the game will be played? PC's waiting like jackals to get gear instead of making it/trading it etch? And we are not talking about just a pistol or SMG here... we are talking serious weaponry.

[n00buaddib]

With 80%+ deterioration. Whatever, player made gear (or the one bought at the gunsmith) is still the shit.

Also, you speak of modern battlefields. Fair nuff. While most perceive fonline's year 2238 as 'modern', it's actually not...quite. History didn't quite happen as it did irl and the whole planet was nuked. There are highwaymen roaming everywhere, pretty much everyone you meet in the wastes and their mom wants to kill you and take your stuff...that is not the kind of enviroment where I see supermutants (!!) taking care of who they burn with their flamer. NCR army and whatnot...they just panick and spray whatever the have in the hands blindly.

If you were in a wasteland, with an SMG in your hand, a full clip in it, all your 4 mates around you were dead, would you not burst the last super mutant standing next to you even though an innocent traveler was standing right next to him? (bloody bastard killed us both btw, but I was quite high, made a story out of it in my head and it was one of the coolest things that happened to me in fonline. )

Dunno. I still think it's a minor thing.

[Ymeogamaouas]

Yes okay for the random traveler lets say I believe that...

How about if all your mates are heavily wounded and next to the Super Mutant bashing at him. The mutant -may- die from a burst but you know your friends -will- die from it.

Would you spray then?

If yes then sure go ahead and keep it that way!

[n00buaddib]

This is turning into one of those fluff(story) vs rules (game balance) questions.

I could argue that in the heat of combat, with adrenalin levels so high you don't know or feel half the things that are happening to you, caution is thrown out the window. While sitting in a comfy chair in your room typing stuff, your brain works a bit differently then in the heat of the combat. Still...

I don't really care about happens with this one, I just wanted to point out the situation is not as unlikely as it may seem at first glance.

[Ymeogamaouas]

But I am not answering with fluff... I answered your question about if I would blast away if there was 1 enemy and 1 traveler and I was probably going to die next if I didnt shoot the super mutant.

But would you fire on your fellow PC gangers if the roles was the other way around? The mutant has aggroed you and firing missiles on you. His first takes you to 1 hp...

your friends are also down to 5 hp and the mutant is also down to 5hp... do you burst or not?

[mahoraz]

But I am not answering with fluff... I answered your question about if I would blast away if there was 1 enemy and 1 traveler and I was probably going to die next if I didnt shoot the super mutant.

But would you fire on your fellow PC gangers if the roles was the other way around? The mutant has aggroed you and firing missiles on you. His first takes you to 1 hp...

your friends are also down to 5 hp and the mutant is also down to 5hp... do you burst or not?

i would.... for one simple reason..... if he dies and you live because you killed the mutie, then you can recover and deliver him his crap but if you all die then evetyone looses all their gear and no loot for anyone
(and why do you think people in real life are afraid to shoot if friendly targets are nearby....)